So with 10mil downloads thats just over $2 per download. I know its just the first few weeks but that kind of sounds like a fail in my book. They could have gone the B2P route for $9.99 with a cosmetic shop. That would have been 100mil in revenue and could have avoided all this contraversy. Of course my example is just speculation but still.
Need to apply something like the 80/20 rule there, with the additional foreknowledge that the top 5-2% are going to be paying way more than the average.
IE, at least 80% of the player base is assumed to be F2P and likely will never invest. Part of calculating in relation to ARPPU(average revenue per paying user) vs ARPU(average revenue per user), as well as further stratification.
For contrast here. FFXIV's highest recent 9 month profit is ~240 million, IE ~86 million for 3 months or ~28 million for one. This is also ignoring Final Fantasy XI, and Dragon Quest X as part of the MMO profits, just attributing all of it to FFXIV, so this is biased in favor of FFXIV.
Immortal making 24 million in two weeks isn't far off from FFXIV's highest recent earnings period in that regard, and has plenty of room to pass it for quarterly earnings.
Throws the argument of what's more predatory or heavily monetized into question a bit.
Also raises the question about sustainability too.
If it's really true "the monetization system is raking it in", I hope - but don't expect - this will shut up the haters. Perhaps it'll make them realize their own feelings about the issue are not widely shared.
Again, no one is forcing you to play the game, and certainly your tax dollars aren't going to support it. Perhaps it's time for you to simply STFU?
Gee, you're right. The tax dollars are going straight to multiple monopolies, and another country. A large portion of that is literally no longer USD/ETC or a part of our excellent economies. Plus the PC client doesn't have the app-store cut to deal with.
Why do apologists always do this? Even if someone liked a game but wanted better practices, they'd get flamed because, "omg y u so poor", or some stupid crap like "just don't buy it". No one's forcing people to get hit by bullets, it's our own fault. That's the extreme level of "no one's forcing you". That's where it will eventually go.
Genshin Impact isn't a fair comparison. Character gacha games are a different beast, this comes with the waifu/husbando thing and those people are a lost cause. Also, don't get in their way, they're a very defensive people.
The 24m number doesn't surprise me, power has diminishing returns in D:I, your small whales and dolphins aren't as inclined to partake because they can't gain absolute advantage over minnows and f2p. In addition, no cosmetic power ups and lootboxes.
Diablo Immortal failed at scheming. Aesthetics sell more than just raw power. You have to attach the power to the cosmetics/aesthetics to sell them better. Mobile gaming 101 which they tried with armor/wings but the barrier is too high and rather lame.
Want to turn that 24m in 100m in a week? Spell visual effect lootboxes, legendary cosmetic lootboxes. No power, just cosmetic, they'd make more money because looking cool matters more without any power attached.
People think FFXIV cash shop isn't predatory, it's predatory. Box price, sub fee, retainer fees and all these cool mounts, pets, emotes, services and glams locked behind a different paywall. PoE is no different, with its cosmetic lootboxes but it always gets a pass for some reason. Collecting cosmetics, looking cool, is just as addictive, hell its why a lot of people play certain online games.
My partner struggles really really hard with cosmetics in shops, she can't control herself because "cute" "pretty" "sexy" "I NEED that!" She rarely says want, once she gets roped in, she "needs" it. She understands its not healthy and realizes she needs help preventing her from overspending on such things.
Either way, the industry has varying levels and forms of predation. There will always be demand, so there will always be supply. I don't think we should place a dollar limit on predation. If something exists to trick, convince, manipulate you into spending money, it is predatory regardless of how much it is.
Out of context but I have to say this. I don't give a damn about immortal and wasn't gonna write anything. But I'm so glad someone actually bring ff14 up for its monetiazation system here.
There are so many mmos out there getting bashed for stupid additions to their shops like a mount, pet etc. Then you see FF14 and how many different shit they sell on their cash shop. FF14 is a game that you have to buy expansions and buy sub monthly to play. And on top of that it has a cash shop which is almost comperable some of the b2p/f2p games out there.
Then you see people saying nothing about this shit and just give them a pass for anything and everything they do. Even some of the big wow youtubers who shat on Blizzard for 5-6 mounts they were selling on their shop now trying to justify that FF14's cash shop on their videos against their viewers comments. The hypocrisy I see from these people is just mind boggling to me...
Diablo 3 sold 3.5 million copies in the first 24 hours, earning them $120 million+
Not including Reaper of Souls, necro dlc, real money auction.
Fantastic news, especially considering DI will be dead after a month because of all the predatory monetization, they will learn hard from this mistake ^^
EDIT: Diablo Immortal has also been canceled in China, due to a Community Manager posting "why isn't (Winnie) the bear out of office yet?"
The game isn't cancelled in china - the Weibo account is
Genshin Impact isn't a fair comparison. Character gacha games are a different beast, this comes with the waifu/husbando thing and those people are a lost cause. Also, don't get in their way, they're a very defensive people.
The 24m number doesn't surprise me, power has diminishing returns in D:I, your small whales and dolphins aren't as inclined to partake because they can't gain absolute advantage over minnows and f2p. In addition, no cosmetic power ups and lootboxes.
Diablo Immortal failed at scheming. Aesthetics sell more than just raw power. You have to attach the power to the cosmetics/aesthetics to sell them better. Mobile gaming 101 which they tried with armor/wings but the barrier is too high and rather lame.
Want to turn that 24m in 100m in a week? Spell visual effect lootboxes, legendary cosmetic lootboxes. No power, just cosmetic, they'd make more money because looking cool matters more without any power attached.
People think FFXIV cash shop isn't predatory, it's predatory. Box price, sub fee, retainer fees and all these cool mounts, pets, emotes, services and glams locked behind a different paywall. PoE is no different, with its cosmetic lootboxes but it always gets a pass for some reason. Collecting cosmetics, looking cool, is just as addictive, hell its why a lot of people play certain online games.
My partner struggles really really hard with cosmetics in shops, she can't control herself because "cute" "pretty" "sexy" "I NEED that!" She rarely says want, once she gets roped in, she "needs" it. She understands its not healthy and realizes she needs help preventing her from overspending on such things.
Either way, the industry has varying levels and forms of predation. There will always be demand, so there will always be supply. I don't think we should place a dollar limit on predation. If something exists to trick, convince, manipulate you into spending money, it is predatory regardless of how much it is.
There is no way you can compare a subscription and paid expansions with the abuse that is seen in DI. From what you have said there are dodgy practices like loot boxes, but then FFXIV is hardly alone in using them.
I have not seen anyone saying "The sort of monetarization you see in DI is the only cash shop abuse there is". DI is a continuation of the dodgy practices that began when cash shops started in MMOs, it is part of gaming history which led to GaaS and then mobile cash shops which are the worst. Now mobile which is feeding back into other platforms in many ways wants to impose its predatory gambling scheme on the PC. Naturally enough players are up in arms.
I mean if it works ig this is the new norm on how they fund themselves now, a simple solution is just not play if you don't like it and let the rich boys fund the game itself
Its you! You keep changing your avatar, I can't keep up
I think without the dolphins and the remora these games might fail, that's what I hope we can one day achieve. It is going to take governments years before they realise this has turned gaming into gambling, so players who are against this should protest.
I think what Blizzard is doing is fine and moral, because the quality of players have gone down and if players are so bad that they need to spend money inside games then can you really blame Blizzard. And thanks to these players we prolly never are going to have good online game.
...and countries with anti loot boxing laws will realize will need to make the laws very broad to keep preventing this,...
They already seem to be broad enough in the countries that have them.
DI technically does not have loot boxes you can buy and then open for an RNG chance to drop something.
What they have instead is a disguised system where the Elder Rift runs when using either the store bought or game acquired Crests act as a quasi lootbox by providing an RNG chance at a legendary gem drop from the end of rift chest.
You can do those rift runs without any crest but that will never give you a chance at a legendary gem drop. The crests are the "keys" that enable opening a better lootbox (chest) analog.
That was enough for the regulators to ban DI in those countries.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
If it's really true "the monetization system is raking it in", I hope - but don't expect - this will shut up the haters. Perhaps it'll make them realize their own feelings about the issue are not widely shared.
Again, no one is forcing you to play the game, and certainly your tax dollars aren't going to support it. Perhaps it's time for you to simply STFU?
Developers have stated in several interviews I've seen over the decades that for F2P games, around 5% of the players provide 95% of the revenue (IE, the whales)
Ergo "the monetization scheme is raking it in" and "The majority of people's feelings (generally that the monetization scheme is predatory and harms the game)" are not two mutually exclusive circumstances.
...and countries with anti loot boxing laws will realize will need to make the laws very broad to keep preventing this,...
They already seem to be broad enough in the countries that have them.
DI technically does not have loot boxes you can buy and then open for an RNG chance to drop something.
What they have instead is a disguised system where the Elder Rift runs when using either the store bought or game acquired Crests act as a quasi lootbox by providing an RNG chance at a legendary gem drop from the end of rift chest.
You can do those rift runs without any crest but that will never give you a chance at a legendary gem drop. The crests are the "keys" that enable opening a better lootbox (chest) analog.
That was enough for the regulators to ban DI in those countries.
That's encouraging, in my experience government often has a problem with realising that apples are still apples when dealing with different areas of digital technology. Whichever those countries are they have stayed ahead of the understanding curve.
It's kinda confirmation of what many of us already know. The forums are an echo chamber and many think that the whole world should think like it does. Like politicians who only listen to their own constituents and then are surpised that they lose, or get it wrong. Then say that everyone else is stupid because his people said it was good.
It's kinda confirmation of what many of us already know. The forums are an echo chamber and many think that the whole world should think like it does. Like politicians who only listen to their own constituents and then are surpised that they lose, or get it wrong. Then say that everyone else is stupid because his people said it was good.
$24 million in two weeks is lagging well behind both the last franchise release and the top mobile releases.
Comments
IE, at least 80% of the player base is assumed to be F2P and likely will never invest. Part of calculating in relation to ARPPU(average revenue per paying user) vs ARPU(average revenue per user), as well as further stratification.
Immortal making 24 million in two weeks isn't far off from FFXIV's highest recent earnings period in that regard, and has plenty of room to pass it for quarterly earnings.
Throws the argument of what's more predatory or heavily monetized into question a bit.
Also raises the question about sustainability too.
Why do apologists always do this? Even if someone liked a game but wanted better practices, they'd get flamed because, "omg y u so poor", or some stupid crap like "just don't buy it". No one's forcing people to get hit by bullets, it's our own fault. That's the extreme level of "no one's forcing you". That's where it will eventually go.
Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013
Fishing on Bronzebeard since 2005
Fishing in RL since 1992
Born with a fishing rod in my hand in 1979
Out of context but I have to say this. I don't give a damn about immortal and wasn't gonna write anything. But I'm so glad someone actually bring ff14 up for its monetiazation system here.
There are so many mmos out there getting bashed for stupid additions to their shops like a mount, pet etc. Then you see FF14 and how many different shit they sell on their cash shop. FF14 is a game that you have to buy expansions and buy sub monthly to play. And on top of that it has a cash shop which is almost comperable some of the b2p/f2p games out there.
Then you see people saying nothing about this shit and just give them a pass for anything and everything they do. Even some of the big wow youtubers who shat on Blizzard for 5-6 mounts they were selling on their shop now trying to justify that FF14's cash shop on their videos against their viewers comments. The hypocrisy I see from these people is just mind boggling to me...
https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3182122/neteases-new-game-diablo-immortal-banned-new-posts-weibo-just-week
I have not seen anyone saying "The sort of monetarization you see in DI is the only cash shop abuse there is". DI is a continuation of the dodgy practices that began when cash shops started in MMOs, it is part of gaming history which led to GaaS and then mobile cash shops which are the worst. Now mobile which is feeding back into other platforms in many ways wants to impose its predatory gambling scheme on the PC. Naturally enough players are up in arms.
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
I think without the dolphins and the remora these games might fail, that's what I hope we can one day achieve. It is going to take governments years before they realise this has turned gaming into gambling, so players who are against this should protest.
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
DI technically does not have loot boxes you can buy and then open for an RNG chance to drop something.
What they have instead is a disguised system where the Elder Rift runs when using either the store bought or game acquired Crests act as a quasi lootbox by providing an RNG chance at a legendary gem drop from the end of rift chest.
You can do those rift runs without any crest but that will never give you a chance at a legendary gem drop. The crests are the "keys" that enable opening a better lootbox (chest) analog.
That was enough for the regulators to ban DI in those countries.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Ergo "the monetization scheme is raking it in" and "The majority of people's feelings (generally that the monetization scheme is predatory and harms the game)" are not two mutually exclusive circumstances.
It's not even in the top 8 (edit, it's two slots higher on iPhone vs. iPad) grossing apps currently in the U.S. on the Apple store, where the majority of its sales come from. https://app.sensortower.com/ios/rankings/top/ipad/us/games?date=2022-06-19
The really baffling thing is making it seem like this was a phenomenal launch.
sad times