While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
I would suggest a mix, some obtainable through gameplay but most from the cash shop.
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
This is why I am, have been, and will remain and advocate that the best method of Cash Shop is selling DLC/adventure packs, and just putting all the content in those packs.
That way Content Development supports itself, On top of that, It's a fair, honest, transaction, and allows players to earn what they have.
The modern cash shop, seems convoluted, I mean, the idea of funding the game by selling a pair of pants and then guessing what content to put into the game, strikes me as kind of stupid.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
This is why I am, have been, and will remain and advocate that the best method of Cash Shop is selling DLC/adventure packs, and just putting all the content in those packs.
That way Content Development supports itself, On top of that, It's a fair, honest, transaction, and allows players to earn what they have.
The modern cash shop, seems convoluted, I mean, the idea of funding the game by selling a pair of pants and then guessing what content to put into the game, strikes me as kind of stupid.
How about they just make great games full of content and things to do, make their money that way, and just forget the CS's?
You folks continue to mystify me. The genre is slowly dying of boring games, and still you want to figure out ways to use aspects that cause that boredom to make them money so you can have more of the boring games.
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
Cosmetics that can only be purchased aren't content. They replace nothing other than the money one spends on them.
Cosmetics one can only acquire through game play could be considered content, I suppose. The vast majority of MMORPGs I've played provide that.
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
Cosmetics that can only be purchased aren't content. They replace nothing other than the money one spends on them.
Cosmetics one can only acquire through game play could be considered content, I suppose. The vast majority of MMORPGs I've played provide that.
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
This is why I am, have been, and will remain and advocate that the best method of Cash Shop is selling DLC/adventure packs, and just putting all the content in those packs.
That way Content Development supports itself, On top of that, It's a fair, honest, transaction, and allows players to earn what they have.
The modern cash shop, seems convoluted, I mean, the idea of funding the game by selling a pair of pants and then guessing what content to put into the game, strikes me as kind of stupid.
How about they just make great games full of content and things to do, make their money that way, and just forget the CS's?
You folks continue to mystify me. The genre is slowly dying of boring games, and still you want to figure out ways to use aspects that cause that boredom to make them money so you can have more of the boring games.
Genius!
This is because we are realistic. You cannot stuff that genie back into the bottle. No game developer is going to go back to the way things were.
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
This is why I am, have been, and will remain and advocate that the best method of Cash Shop is selling DLC/adventure packs, and just putting all the content in those packs.
That way Content Development supports itself, On top of that, It's a fair, honest, transaction, and allows players to earn what they have.
The modern cash shop, seems convoluted, I mean, the idea of funding the game by selling a pair of pants and then guessing what content to put into the game, strikes me as kind of stupid.
Selling that game play relevant rather than not is far more constraining on one's play. What could be more relevant to the play of a game than the very content of it.
There is nothing more convoluted about cash shops than any other store. They provide things for sale. If one wants that offered they buy it. If not, they don't.
They are stocked with what is expected to sell. That which is popular endures. That more selectively desired either disappears or is rotated with other options over time so as not to create a bloat of concurrent offerings.
Commerce such as this has been done for thousands of years. Any confusion it may have once generated is now in the distant past.
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
This is why I am, have been, and will remain and advocate that the best method of Cash Shop is selling DLC/adventure packs, and just putting all the content in those packs.
That way Content Development supports itself, On top of that, It's a fair, honest, transaction, and allows players to earn what they have.
The modern cash shop, seems convoluted, I mean, the idea of funding the game by selling a pair of pants and then guessing what content to put into the game, strikes me as kind of stupid.
How about they just make great games full of content and things to do, make their money that way, and just forget the CS's?
You folks continue to mystify me. The genre is slowly dying of boring games, and still you want to figure out ways to use aspects that cause that boredom to make them money so you can have more of the boring games.
Genius!
This is because we are realistic. You cannot stuff that genie back into the bottle. No game developer is going to go back to the way things were.
The only thing you're being realistic about is how to make boring a success story, somewhat. But only as long as the genre stays stuck in this "field of boredom."
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
This is why I am, have been, and will remain and advocate that the best method of Cash Shop is selling DLC/adventure packs, and just putting all the content in those packs.
That way Content Development supports itself, On top of that, It's a fair, honest, transaction, and allows players to earn what they have.
The modern cash shop, seems convoluted, I mean, the idea of funding the game by selling a pair of pants and then guessing what content to put into the game, strikes me as kind of stupid.
How about they just make great games full of content and things to do, make their money that way, and just forget the CS's?
You folks continue to mystify me. The genre is slowly dying of boring games, and still you want to figure out ways to use aspects that cause that boredom to make them money so you can have more of the boring games.
Genius!
It's not realistic that they are going to stop accepting players money. That is why the situation exist. Imagine being a developer. I can maybe grab a finicky fixed monthly fee or I let players spend unlimited amounts of money on unlimited supply digital goods while they play for "free." This won't change unless there is a mass rejection of this type of monetization.
As long as there are a majority leeches and whales subsidizing them this isn't gonna change. Best you can do is channel it.
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
This is why I am, have been, and will remain and advocate that the best method of Cash Shop is selling DLC/adventure packs, and just putting all the content in those packs.
That way Content Development supports itself, On top of that, It's a fair, honest, transaction, and allows players to earn what they have.
The modern cash shop, seems convoluted, I mean, the idea of funding the game by selling a pair of pants and then guessing what content to put into the game, strikes me as kind of stupid.
How about they just make great games full of content and things to do, make their money that way, and just forget the CS's?
You folks continue to mystify me. The genre is slowly dying of boring games, and still you want to figure out ways to use aspects that cause that boredom to make them money so you can have more of the boring games.
Genius!
It's not realistic that they are going to stop accepting players money. That is why the situation exist. Imagine being a developer. I can maybe grab a finicky fixed monthly fee or I let players spend unlimited amounts of money on unlimited supply digital goods while they play for "free." This won't change unless there is a mass rejection of this type of monetization.
As long as there are a majority leeches and whales subsidizing them this isn't gonna change. Best you can do is channel it.
I would go a bit further even, being realistic and all. This isn’t about profit in general, it is about ROI. So when costs of making a game have increased a hundredfold on average over the last two decades and the amount of customers only twentyfold you have a serious problem unless you jack up prices considerably. And the former has happened while the latter hasn’t because creating a higher barrier of entry only alienates more potential customers.
So, for a developer the box price and sub just doesn’t cut it anymore, not even in your average indie game. So additional ways of revenue are being added while keeping a game as accessible to as many people as possible, free even oftentimes. All of this needs to be done just to get the same ROI as before, all the extra money made by removing the spending ceiling is just a sweet, sweet bonus.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
This is why I am, have been, and will remain and advocate that the best method of Cash Shop is selling DLC/adventure packs, and just putting all the content in those packs.
That way Content Development supports itself, On top of that, It's a fair, honest, transaction, and allows players to earn what they have.
The modern cash shop, seems convoluted, I mean, the idea of funding the game by selling a pair of pants and then guessing what content to put into the game, strikes me as kind of stupid.
How about they just make great games full of content and things to do, make their money that way, and just forget the CS's?
How do you expect them to fund the game?
I mean lets be honest, the devs are not working for free, they can't pay their mortgage and put food on the table with "Well I made a great game"
And, it's time to accept that the era of the sub is dead.
So what is your realistic solution to funding the game.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
This is why I am, have been, and will remain and advocate that the best method of Cash Shop is selling DLC/adventure packs, and just putting all the content in those packs.
That way Content Development supports itself, On top of that, It's a fair, honest, transaction, and allows players to earn what they have.
The modern cash shop, seems convoluted, I mean, the idea of funding the game by selling a pair of pants and then guessing what content to put into the game, strikes me as kind of stupid.
How about they just make great games full of content and things to do, make their money that way, and just forget the CS's?
How do you expect them to fund the game?
I mean lets be honest, the devs are not working for free, they can't pay their mortgage and put food on the table with "Well I made a great game"
And, it's time to accept that the era of the sub is dead.
So what is your realistic solution to funding the game.
Investors that want to make something like WoW money. Before their CS items, that is. That's plenty of moola, and more than anyone else is making from FtP I'm guessing. And much more stable, since a CS game can go poof as soon as their CS items become so plentiful, to keep up with profit demands, that players grow tired of the non-game and it's costs.
Subs have always been known to offer a more stable future. You create a new colorful mount for the 50th time, you don't know how well it'll sell. It could be game crash time if it, and other 50th generation CS items, doesn't sell.
For subs you need a great game with lots to do to draw players in and keep them, and that's the opposite of these CS games of boredom.
In fact, as for comparisons, FtP games are like the opposite of a "Buy 2, Get 1 Free" sale. It's "Get 1 free, Buy 2 (for starters)". Or actually more like the opposite of those tickets that you get punched every time you buy a coffee, and after 20 pips get punched you get a free coffee.
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
This is why I am, have been, and will remain and advocate that the best method of Cash Shop is selling DLC/adventure packs, and just putting all the content in those packs.
That way Content Development supports itself, On top of that, It's a fair, honest, transaction, and allows players to earn what they have.
The modern cash shop, seems convoluted, I mean, the idea of funding the game by selling a pair of pants and then guessing what content to put into the game, strikes me as kind of stupid.
How about they just make great games full of content and things to do, make their money that way, and just forget the CS's?
How do you expect them to fund the game?
I mean lets be honest, the devs are not working for free, they can't pay their mortgage and put food on the table with "Well I made a great game"
And, it's time to accept that the era of the sub is dead.
So what is your realistic solution to funding the game.
Investors that want to make something like WoW money. Before their CS items, that is. That's plenty of moola, and more than anyone else is making from FtP I'm guessing. And much more stable, since a CS game can go poof as soon as their CS items become so plentiful, to keep up with profit demands, that players grow tired of the non-game and it's costs.
Subs have always been known to offer a more stable future. You create a new colorful mount for the 50th time, you don't know how well it'll sell. It could be game crash time if it, and other 50th generation CS items, doesn't sell.
For subs you need a great game with lots to do to draw players in and keep them, and that's the opposite of these CS games of boredom.
In fact, as for comparisons, FtP games are like the opposite of a "Buy 2, Get 1 Free" sale. It's "Get 1 free, Buy 2 (for starters)". Or actually more like the opposite of those tickets that you get punched every time you buy a coffee, and after 20 pips get punched you get a free coffee.
"FtP, we want to pip you out."
If you are leader possibly, but not for the others.
Look at the money that Genshin (F2P game) is making. Each banner change brings literally tens of millions to the company:
That link only displayed the revenue from China and only on the IOS platform. Genshin is available everywhere on all platforms. I let you envision the money they are making with a "free" title.
Diablo Immortal despite all of its critics made over $24M in two weeks! How many suscribed users do you need to reach the same amount in 2 weeks?
Well, about 3 Millions with a 15$/month subscription and about 5M with a $10 subscription.
Meaning that if you are not leader in the field, you cannot reach these numbers.
This is why subscription is dead.
The other reason is that cash shop have a superior version of subscription, often called "premium". Why it is superior? Well when you stop paying, you can still play the game.
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
This is why I am, have been, and will remain and advocate that the best method of Cash Shop is selling DLC/adventure packs, and just putting all the content in those packs.
That way Content Development supports itself, On top of that, It's a fair, honest, transaction, and allows players to earn what they have.
The modern cash shop, seems convoluted, I mean, the idea of funding the game by selling a pair of pants and then guessing what content to put into the game, strikes me as kind of stupid.
How about they just make great games full of content and things to do, make their money that way, and just forget the CS's?
How do you expect them to fund the game?
I mean lets be honest, the devs are not working for free, they can't pay their mortgage and put food on the table with "Well I made a great game"
And, it's time to accept that the era of the sub is dead.
So what is your realistic solution to funding the game.
Investors that want to make something like WoW money. Before their CS items, that is. That's plenty of moola, and more than anyone else is making from FtP I'm guessing. And much more stable, since a CS game can go poof as soon as their CS items become so plentiful, to keep up with profit demands, that players grow tired of the non-game and it's costs.
Subs have always been known to offer a more stable future. You create a new colorful mount for the 50th time, you don't know how well it'll sell. It could be game crash time if it, and other 50th generation CS items, doesn't sell.
For subs you need a great game with lots to do to draw players in and keep them, and that's the opposite of these CS games of boredom.
In fact, as for comparisons, FtP games are like the opposite of a "Buy 2, Get 1 Free" sale. It's "Get 1 free, Buy 2 (for starters)". Or actually more like the opposite of those tickets that you get punched every time you buy a coffee, and after 20 pips get punched you get a free coffee.
"FtP, we want to pip you out."
If you are leader possibly, but not for the others.
Look at the money that Genshin (F2P game) is making. Each banner change brings literally tens of millions to the company:
That link only displayed the revenue from China and only on the IOS platform. Genshin is available everywhere on all platforms. I let you envision the money they are making with a "free" title.
Diablo Immortal despite all of its critics made over $24M in two weeks! How many suscribed users do you need to reach the same amount in 2 weeks?
Well, about 3 Millions with a 15$/month subscription and about 5M with a $10 subscription.
Meaning that if you are not leader in the field, you cannot reach these numbers.
This is why subscription is dead.
The other reason is that cash shop have a superior version of subscription, often called "premium". Why it is superior? Well when you stop paying, you can still play the game.
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
Cosmetics that can only be purchased aren't content. They replace nothing other than the money one spends on them.
Cosmetics one can only acquire through game play could be considered content, I suppose. The vast majority of MMORPGs I've played provide that.
One need not preclude the other.
Anything in the game is content.
Cash shop only cosmetics aren't included in game content. They are separate purchases apart from the game for use within it.
While cosmetics aren't play to win they are pay for direct content. I hate the concept because I feel like they could be incorporated into gameplay. I'd rather player pay for a higher chance to get this in gameplay than to have something sold directly.
Cosmetics that can only be purchased aren't content. They replace nothing other than the money one spends on them.
Cosmetics one can only acquire through game play could be considered content, I suppose. The vast majority of MMORPGs I've played provide that.
One need not preclude the other.
Anything in the game is content.
Cash shop only cosmetics aren't included in game content. They are separate purchases apart from the game for use within it.
Yet, it isn't. Subscription remains an option in many MMORPGs and when purchased often eliminate some of the bother those without must deal with.
It is not sufficient in itself, but it isn't as though one personally has to make up for that shortfall. Others that frequent the cash shop will take of it.
From one's personal point of view subscription remains effectively alive.
Pay to win benefits tremendously from being massively multiplayer, even if the "multiplayer" aspect of the game is just leaderboards and auto-battling PVP. The whales who are willing to pay to win predominantly want to have other players to beat. They don't just want to beat an AI. The latter is easy to do just by picking an easier game.
Eh...
I could see a lot of Whales (or players in general) paying for direct power even in a purely PvE game.
I mean think about it.
If you made a PvE game, and sold say, a +1 to all stats in the store, who loses from this? In reality, no one, because they are not fighting each other.
But I could see a lot of people considering buy that, if they felt that their character was not strong enough, and wanted that little bit more, to make the encounters a little easier.
As I see it, P2W really only exists in PvP games, because only in PvP games, can one player directly beat another, otherwise, what are you crying about, just because they have more power than you, does not stop you from doing that content and getting the same loot as them.
P2W very much exists in PvE, either to get you to a level where you do PvP or to take part in end game play like raids. In a PvE game with no competitive gameplay what so ever then yes it does not exist. Though those who put great value in outfits might still disagree with both of us.
Yah, I still remember when players in GW2 were calling mount skins P2W, Not mounts, not special abilities, just purely cosmetic skins, they were calling that P2W, and really upset about it too.
At the same time, the same company, and same group of players, GW2 gives out 80 Level boosts, which is directly giving away raw character power, and not peep about how this might be remotely P2W.
People may have called it that, but it isn't P2W at all. One gets no in game advantage from a mount functionally identical regardless of aesthetic.
A level boost is more so, but really, how long does it take to get to level 80 in GW2. The levels zip by pretty fast if I recall correctly. I'm not surprised people don't complain about it.
That depends entirely on what you consider "win." I'm glad there are a lot of other gamers out there who see things the way I do.
Not really. In the context of a game for something to be "win" it must provide game play advantage. That which doesn't is game neutral.
I got the end of this page and didn't see a mention of one COH's most popular activities, "Costume Contests." Super Groups would hold contests and awards "prizes" for costumes. Prizes could be "in game cash (influence)" or even "power adjustments" (enhancements). I'm sure this was done in other MMOs.
My point being, "cosmetics" may not be "game changing" in and of themselves, but can be if used in game as such.
For me, it all boils down this: "How does a player define winning." Was a player goal met by a cash shop purchase? Achievements may even factor in here somewhere.
Overall, I agree that the overarching attitude seems to be, "If I don't want to buy it, it's P2W!" This is why I HATE cash shops. But I'm player, not a business
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Personally, I've almost become allergic to any form of direct spending in any game. Cash shop, regardless of P2W, cosmetics or any of that, loot crates, battle pass or any other system that adds to the cost, has all become extremely predatory and directly affects the game. The biggest mistake was adapting to a F2P model and whoever was the pioneer of this should be spanked.
What happened to gamers being on equal terms? Where the developers weren't incentivised to gimp the content that doesn't directly generate revenue, just to maximise the profits from the things that does?
Cosmetics included. In-game reputation from outfits/gear/rare items/housing items, has completely vanished. I used to love building my own reputation in games, but there is simply no need/purpose/reason to do it anymore. No need to keep an eye out for that rare spawning mob to go hunt for that decorative item that I could be the only one on the server who has. MMORPGs have turned into MOSE (Massive Online Singleplayer Experience). They are not even RPGs anymore as you get constantly harassed by the cash shop. Better just buy/install the game, buy the sexiest cosmetic in the store (that will look cooler than any outfit achievable in game), and just /dance in the city center.
Pay to win benefits tremendously from being massively multiplayer, even if the "multiplayer" aspect of the game is just leaderboards and auto-battling PVP. The whales who are willing to pay to win predominantly want to have other players to beat. They don't just want to beat an AI. The latter is easy to do just by picking an easier game.
Eh...
I could see a lot of Whales (or players in general) paying for direct power even in a purely PvE game.
I mean think about it.
If you made a PvE game, and sold say, a +1 to all stats in the store, who loses from this? In reality, no one, because they are not fighting each other.
But I could see a lot of people considering buy that, if they felt that their character was not strong enough, and wanted that little bit more, to make the encounters a little easier.
As I see it, P2W really only exists in PvP games, because only in PvP games, can one player directly beat another, otherwise, what are you crying about, just because they have more power than you, does not stop you from doing that content and getting the same loot as them.
P2W very much exists in PvE, either to get you to a level where you do PvP or to take part in end game play like raids. In a PvE game with no competitive gameplay what so ever then yes it does not exist. Though those who put great value in outfits might still disagree with both of us.
Yah, I still remember when players in GW2 were calling mount skins P2W, Not mounts, not special abilities, just purely cosmetic skins, they were calling that P2W, and really upset about it too.
At the same time, the same company, and same group of players, GW2 gives out 80 Level boosts, which is directly giving away raw character power, and not peep about how this might be remotely P2W.
People may have called it that, but it isn't P2W at all. One gets no in game advantage from a mount functionally identical regardless of aesthetic.
A level boost is more so, but really, how long does it take to get to level 80 in GW2. The levels zip by pretty fast if I recall correctly. I'm not surprised people don't complain about it.
That depends entirely on what you consider "win." I'm glad there are a lot of other gamers out there who see things the way I do.
Not really. In the context of a game for something to be "win" it must provide game play advantage. That which doesn't is game neutral.
I got the end of this page and didn't see a mention of one COH's most popular activities, "Costume Contests." Super Groups would hold contests and awards "prizes" for costumes. Prizes could be "in game cash (influence)" or even "power adjustments" (enhancements). I'm sure this was done in other MMOs.
My point being, "cosmetics" may not be "game changing" in and of themselves, but can be if used in game as such.
For me, it all boils down this: "How does a player define winning." Was a player goal met by a cash shop purchase? Achievements may even factor in here somewhere.
Overall, I agree that the overarching attitude seems to be, "If I don't want to buy it, it's P2W!" This is why I HATE cash shops. But I'm player, not a business
Not sure of any other game than Tibia that still runs contests for in-game items as rewards.
Investors that want to make something like WoW money. Before their CS items, that is. That's plenty of moola, and more than anyone else is making from FtP I'm guessing. And much more stable, since a CS game can go poof as soon as their CS items become so plentiful, to keep up with profit demands, that players grow tired of the non-game and it's costs.
Subs have always been known to offer a more stable future. You create a new colorful mount for the 50th time, you don't know how well it'll sell. It could be game crash time if it, and other 50th generation CS items, doesn't sell.
For subs you need a great game with lots to do to draw players in and keep them, and that's the opposite of these CS games of boredom.
In fact, as for comparisons, FtP games are like the opposite of a "Buy 2, Get 1 Free" sale. It's "Get 1 free, Buy 2 (for starters)". Or actually more like the opposite of those tickets that you get punched every time you buy a coffee, and after 20 pips get punched you get a free coffee.
"FtP, we want to pip you out."
I have always championed the subscription model, there is no better way, but do you think a studio will consider that now? ESO shows it can be done but gets ignored, there is a cash shop mind set in the industry and one really big success will not change that. Pure guesswork but if you put that to a studio executive he would say...ahh but think of what they would have made with a cash shop.
Studios are run with a corporate mentality now, it is not just whats viable or makes a good profit, they are looking for what rakes it in and that's cash shops gambling. So is there an alternative that could appeal to a studio? One which when government regulation of "gaming in gambling" comes in they could turn to? Higher subs might, but I really doubt it, whenever I suggest them on here its like I walked into a ghost town.
But cosmetics only could work, players are mad about costumes and that is a non-P2W way of funding and rolling it in.
Investors that want to make something like WoW money. Before their CS items, that is. That's plenty of moola, and more than anyone else is making from FtP I'm guessing. And much more stable, since a CS game can go poof as soon as their CS items become so plentiful, to keep up with profit demands, that players grow tired of the non-game and it's costs.
Subs have always been known to offer a more stable future. You create a new colorful mount for the 50th time, you don't know how well it'll sell. It could be game crash time if it, and other 50th generation CS items, doesn't sell.
For subs you need a great game with lots to do to draw players in and keep them, and that's the opposite of these CS games of boredom.
In fact, as for comparisons, FtP games are like the opposite of a "Buy 2, Get 1 Free" sale. It's "Get 1 free, Buy 2 (for starters)". Or actually more like the opposite of those tickets that you get punched every time you buy a coffee, and after 20 pips get punched you get a free coffee.
"FtP, we want to pip you out."
I have always championed the subscription model, there is no better way, but do you think a studio will consider that now? ESO shows it can be done but gets ignored, there is a cash shop mind set in the industry and one really big success will not change that. Pure guesswork but if you put that to a studio executive he would say...ahh but think of what they would have made with a cash shop.
Studios are run with a corporate mentality now, it is not just whats viable or makes a good profit, they are looking for what rakes it in and that's cash shops gambling. So is there an alternative that could appeal to a studio? One which when government regulation of "gaming in gambling" comes in they could turn to? Higher subs might, but I really doubt it, whenever I suggest them on here its like I walked into a ghost town.
But cosmetics only could work, players are mad about costumes and that is a non-P2W way of funding and rolling it in.
Yes, studios will consider subs. They always do. The only reason that we're seeing all the CSs is because it has been a phase. But competition, once better games are all that's left to show promise, will change that. And I think we're at that point.
Subs offer more to a company than CS in important ways.
First of all, they know they have a large percentage of that future income coming in in the months ahead. They can be more effective with their planning on new content, fixes, etc. They can also plan taxes (deductions and reinvestments) better.
Second, Investors love such reliability too. It's a safer gamble, including in terms of longevity.
Comments
That way Content Development supports itself, On top of that, It's a fair, honest, transaction, and allows players to earn what they have.
The modern cash shop, seems convoluted, I mean, the idea of funding the game by selling a pair of pants and then guessing what content to put into the game, strikes me as kind of stupid.
You folks continue to mystify me.
The genre is slowly dying of boring games, and still you want to figure out ways to use aspects that cause that boredom to make them money so you can have more of the boring games.
Genius!
Once upon a time....
Cosmetics that can only be purchased aren't content. They replace nothing other than the money one spends on them.
Cosmetics one can only acquire through game play could be considered content, I suppose. The vast majority of MMORPGs I've played provide that.
One need not preclude the other.
Once upon a time....
Selling that game play relevant rather than not is far more constraining on one's play. What could be more relevant to the play of a game than the very content of it.
There is nothing more convoluted about cash shops than any other store. They provide things for sale. If one wants that offered they buy it. If not, they don't.
They are stocked with what is expected to sell. That which is popular endures. That more selectively desired either disappears or is rotated with other options over time so as not to create a bloat of concurrent offerings.
Commerce such as this has been done for thousands of years. Any confusion it may have once generated is now in the distant past.
But only as long as the genre stays stuck in this "field of boredom."
Once upon a time....
As long as there are a majority leeches and whales subsidizing them this isn't gonna change. Best you can do is channel it.
So, for a developer the box price and sub just doesn’t cut it anymore, not even in your average indie game. So additional ways of revenue are being added while keeping a game as accessible to as many people as possible, free even oftentimes. All of this needs to be done just to get the same ROI as before, all the extra money made by removing the spending ceiling is just a sweet, sweet bonus.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I mean lets be honest, the devs are not working for free, they can't pay their mortgage and put food on the table with "Well I made a great game"
And, it's time to accept that the era of the sub is dead.
So what is your realistic solution to funding the game.
That's plenty of moola, and more than anyone else is making from FtP I'm guessing. And much more stable, since a CS game can go poof as soon as their CS items become so plentiful, to keep up with profit demands, that players grow tired of the non-game and it's costs.
Subs have always been known to offer a more stable future.
You create a new colorful mount for the 50th time, you don't know how well it'll sell. It could be game crash time if it, and other 50th generation CS items, doesn't sell.
For subs you need a great game with lots to do to draw players in and keep them, and that's the opposite of these CS games of boredom.
In fact, as for comparisons, FtP games are like the opposite of a "Buy 2, Get 1 Free" sale.
It's "Get 1 free, Buy 2 (for starters)".
Or actually more like the opposite of those tickets that you get punched every time you buy a coffee, and after 20 pips get punched you get a free coffee.
"FtP, we want to pip you out."
Once upon a time....
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
Once upon a time....
Cash shop only cosmetics aren't included in game content. They are separate purchases apart from the game for use within it.
Once upon a time....
It is not sufficient in itself, but it isn't as though one personally has to make up for that shortfall. Others that frequent the cash shop will take of it.
From one's personal point of view subscription remains effectively alive.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
What happened to gamers being on equal terms? Where the developers weren't incentivised to gimp the content that doesn't directly generate revenue, just to maximise the profits from the things that does?
Cosmetics included. In-game reputation from outfits/gear/rare items/housing items, has completely vanished. I used to love building my own reputation in games, but there is simply no need/purpose/reason to do it anymore. No need to keep an eye out for that rare spawning mob to go hunt for that decorative item that I could be the only one on the server who has. MMORPGs have turned into MOSE (Massive Online Singleplayer Experience). They are not even RPGs anymore as you get constantly harassed by the cash shop. Better just buy/install the game, buy the sexiest cosmetic in the store (that will look cooler than any outfit achievable in game), and just /dance in the city center.
Studios are run with a corporate mentality now, it is not just whats viable or makes a good profit, they are looking for what rakes it in and that's cash shops gambling. So is there an alternative that could appeal to a studio? One which when government regulation of "gaming in gambling" comes in they could turn to? Higher subs might, but I really doubt it, whenever I suggest them on here its like I walked into a ghost town.
But cosmetics only could work, players are mad about costumes and that is a non-P2W way of funding and rolling it in.
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
Subs offer more to a company than CS in important ways.
First of all, they know they have a large percentage of that future income coming in in the months ahead. They can be more effective with their planning on new content, fixes, etc. They can also plan taxes (deductions and reinvestments) better.
Second, Investors love such reliability too. It's a safer gamble, including in terms of longevity.
Once upon a time....