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So... Who's watching the first 2 episodes of The Rings of Power tonight?
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LEARNING IS FUN! FRIENDS!
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Okay, Now here's a Gif of David Chappelle.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
In Europe, racism started to be actively fought not before the 80s. I know, I was there.
And don't get me wrong, I don't think that Tolkien had any ill intent by describing the superior elves as blond and white, and the evil pirates with a darker skin.
He was just a person of his time, like many others. The same way, in medieval times people thought in all honesty that the Earth was flat, the same way it was obvious for white people that they were better.
Yes, that was a rhetorical question.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
As I said above, some changes must happen simply due to format. A book is not a movie is not a TV Show.
If a story or any work of art, no longer holds up today, then it rightfully will fade away. But thinking that by changing it you are making an improvement is a very arrogant position IMHO (not You, but a director/show runner).
To me, as I said in a similar thread a while back, West Side Story demonstrates the "right" way to approach/refresh a classic. It is an updated version of Romeo and Juliette and yet stands on its own as a distinct work.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I never said a racist thing. I said evil little white soul because that's what it is. Racism is evil. Your evil little white soul is an adjective to describe the evil nature of a racist white person to say black people dont belong in LOTR or ANYWHERE else in that manner. Who do you think you fooling bro please send someone else.
Please continue to call me racist because I called all of you out. *SIGH* I really dont care because everything I wrote is true. All you have to do is read it, but I know you all you dont read shit you skim the first sentence looking for triggers.
What I wrote is true. You are mad because it's true. If you dont want me to speak on this, then stop having the conversation in a public space. Go to a private place and discuss all the racist ideologies you want to! Im always going to call you out when and IF I see it! Simple. Zero tolerance for racist BS. And it's NEVER me starting the shit it's always yall but for some reason, when I call it out, I get boomer aggro.
"Let's ignore the racist shit you responded to, you are calling us out, therefore, it makes you racist!"
LOL
Slapshot1188 said: Amazing. So I started this conversation? Not the OP or not the post I responded to.. but me? You're still lying I see...
LOL OKAY BUD. Look just stop saying racist shit and yall won't have to worry about what I have to say because I won't say anything! Very simple concept.
I responded to somebody saying black people dont belong in ME/LOTR.. why you do you feel the need to lie about the nature of the conversation?
Typical..yall lie so much. It's not new.. Honorless people.
LMAO, the "Right" way....?
who do you people think you are? WTF? You can't tell somebody else how to interpret art or how to make their art..... what? LOL endless laughter at this place smh..
Victim is the only word racist know how to use when they are called out for their bullshit.
Fake outrage..you mean like being fake mad at a fake world for adding fake black people to their fake story?
LOL.. oh this is rich.. identity "BEYOND black"..
WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE man? LOL telling me how to identify. wtf does that even mean? You look stupid.
YOU need to identify beyond RACIST. because every single time something happens in culture that relates to black people being in these spaces people like you get up in arms and start protesting about these fake worlds. Ive seen you do it multiple times here. GROW up, you're way too old for this shit. The only comeback you ever have is "victim mentality" ...more racist bs.
Nah the only victim I see here is you because you found out what type of porn your wife and daughters like. Not my fault.
I just KNOW you say the hard R when you say it dont you? You probably just said it right now huh... I know you did because I know your type. It's not new.
Sure. Im "Victimizing" myself by coming to a nerd culture website and reading your racist bullshit about how black people dont belong in LOTR. Im pretty sure im a young Iraq War Vet that makes over 6 figs a year.. notice I didn't say black. How can I be a victim? Victim of what? I didn't claim anything against me.. I said YOU (people like you) are racist.
It's true.
The only VICTIM I see is you and old people like you in your race that think every black or poc in a fantasy world is a personal attack on them..thinking BLACK people owe you some type of explanation for our existence... all I see is weakness. That's what it is. Weak.
Call it what you want, but you are still a racist. That part won't change.
You're the type that believes in that racial replacement theory BS and that's the reason why you are so against black people in middle earth. You feel replaced IRL so you cant allow it to happen in your fantasy... because in your wildest fantasy you get to fight against the evil of the world be the hero, save the girl, tame the dragon and that world is free of any black people or women that dont submit to you...is that deep enough or should I go another layer? I warn you, you might have to subscribe to my Patreon to get to the next level of this conversation.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"THEY" MAD! About a FAKE world..because it added black people.. now they say im racist because I broke their little echo chamber by calling them out about the ACTUAL racist shit they were saying...
It's not my fault yall put your entire self-worth into being the guardians of the "Historical Accuracy" of a made-up world!
LOLL!
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Stop using 'Outraged' language at me. The only outraged person(s) I saw was the people like yourself big mad at black people being added to a fake fantasy setting that you do not own or control.
Everything I say comes from a logical and truth-based point of view. I haven't told a lie on this website the entire time I've been here. I observe and then respond. I respond to racism the same way it comes to me. The memes are my way of letting you know How much of a joke I think you are, but it's always wrapped in truth. Like a Dave Chappelle act. A bit of satire is just my style.
Literally, EVERY time I respond to somebody saying racist shit as YOU did, I get an entire thread worth of pages of people attacking me PERSONALLY because I called them out.. much as you did. Im used to it though, it's not new. A lot of people who frequent this site want to turn it into a right-wing gamer news site. Ive seen that talk here. That hate that im here. They think im some left-wing BLM person (because Im black) when really I dont subscribe to the right or the left. I simply will not tolerate racist bs in my face. Im like this in real life. 100% of you would never talk like this in my face, you just wouldn't.
All of that makes me the perfect person to attack. Again it's not about the victim, idgaf about who the victim is, I point at the truth. It's just the truth. That's what happens. I RESPOND to racist BS never start it.
Calling you racist is not a personal attack it's the truth. If you feel it's personal then stop doing it, but what you said is not subjectively racist. It's racist.
Let's stay focused though. You are not about to back peddle. I dont give a shit about your gripes with the show. I have things I dont like about the show also. But I like most of it. WHAT I REALLY dont like is PEOPLE like you saying BLACK people dont belong as if adding us somehow ruins these IPs.. I saw the same shit about GOT. Black People shouldn't be Targaryen. WHY? Why is it so hard for yall to imagine black nobility or black people being magical or whatever the hell?
That's a rhetorical question, I know the answer already. Racism. That's what it is Period.
I dont care about your opinion of wardrobe or story beats.. I care about you saying Black People dont belong in LOTR. Why not?
Explain to me WHY black people dont belong in LOTR. Please make it good. I dont need you to explain the Haradrim to me, Im a Tolkien fan. I know exactly what they are, I brought them up in the conversation, not you.
Explain to me why black humans as you say wouldn't be in that part of the "world" (what world because ME is Fake.)
Remember I RESPONDED to you saying this:
But Im the one who starts all this shit right.. right. Nah.
I never start anything here, Im just painfully like the only black dude still here, and Im not even here like that but for some reason EVERY fucking time I pop my head in here, it's racist conversations going on like it's cool. My last visit/post here was in Feb of this year when I tried to celebrate BHM and got met with racist bs. I didn't even entertain a real response. I just left without saying a word.
I am keeping receipts. Do what you want with that information.
So tell me again why Black People dont belong in ME?
I know It's just easier for you to whitesplain Tolkien to me than to apologize for saying racist shit.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I quoted you because you said some racist shit how dont you see that's what started the conversation? I didn't post on a public forum about gaming that black people shouldn't be in LOTR. YOU did. That is what started our conversation and my response to your action. If you never posted that we would not be speaking. How do you not get this?
Thanks for the whitesplain (You couldn't resist) about ME but let me remind you that just as black elves, hobbits, and dwarves dont exist, neither did WHITE elves and hobbits, you know why?
Because Elves, Dwarves, and Hobbits aren't real sir.
They can be portrayed by ANY person of ANY race and it still makes sense. What should matter is the performance of the actor not what they look like.
Also, who are you to say where Black people would and can be in the world? You dont get to decide that. The same way white people in ME move around the world should be the same way the other races move around the world. Who cares that there is no backing for Black Rulers in Upper Numenor? So what? There should be because black people have been rulers. Tolkien didn't have to write that for me to believe it's possible Gondor could have a black ruler. Why does that seem so impossible for you?
That's my point. Stop acting like black people are impossible in a world where impossible is normal. Black people are just as normal as any other race, we dont need a grand thing or some deep lore-specific reason to explain our existence in the world. We are here now. That's it. It's nice to see a deep lore thing around it dont get me wrong, like Elder Scrolls Redguards but it doesn't have to be because they dont give a big grand reason for why WHITE people exist in the world. They just are allowed to be. Black characters should be treated the same way. Tolkien wrote black characters as evil or lesser. We all know why. We dont have to accept just that story because he told it first, new people are going to tell new stories based on his works and that's fine. That's how humans have done it for our entire existence. Every story is a retelling. LOTR is no different.
If the show.. It's not for you.. then dont watch it's simple. or you can shut the hell up and watch. Funny when the LOTR trilogy came out in the early 2ks none of my friends complained about not seeing black people, we just accepted it for what it was, saw the movies read the books, etc became fans. It's amazing that now 20+ years later white people are complaining because they see US in these roles now.
But tell me again it's not about race.
I too would like to see Harad-centered stories but that does not absolve you of what you said being racist as hell. I dont have to peg you as anything, you did it yourself with your words.
The fact that you can say that ive pegged you as something you do are NOT, lets me know that you are hyper-aware of what you said but you like most racists are too proud to actually apologize for the offense. Because you dont really care, and THAT's because again you are what you are. It never surprises me that when a racist person is called out for saying or doing something racist the first thing they say is "im not racist" right after we literally heard them or saw them. It's like catching a thief red-handed and the thief says "I dont steal".
Again not every story you love is going to be centered around people that look like you or your culture. Yall gotta stop ruining everything with this "this is woke garbage!" bullshit. It's really lame and it is just a fact it's coming from majority of white JRRT fans. white Men to be specific. People who think they can gatekeep LOTR from the rest of the world.
You said to tell you the actual stories of the black people of middle earth.. that's literally what they are doing. They told you there are black humans black elves, black hobbits, black dwarves just as they are white versions of all of those things. Here are their stories. They did exactly that.
You just dont like the story they are telling. That's a personal problem.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I don't think any of us knows the details of his contract with United Artists back in 70's and how they were or were not allowed to interpret the books. I have my doubts he would have sold them to make a musical or a sitcom set in his universe.
The problem here (and in too many venues these days) is the way these works are interpreted. Sure, Amazon and Hollywood studios are free to interpret them any way they like and the license allows them. In the same way Visigoths and Vandals were free to "adapt" Rome to their own style and habits, so to speak.
There is a difference between adaptation or interpretation and cultural barbarism. You may not think that Tolkien's work is especially noteworthy; however, the general consensus is that it is - not just considering its widespread appeal, number of translations or books sold, but also due to its cultural significance, impact, and literary and linguistic quality.
Like it or not, they have become part of the cultural heritage. Now obviously, nobody is stopping me from interpreting Beethoven in the most ludicrous way I am capable of. But the only thing it would achieve is showing the rest of the world my ignorance or arrogance or both.
Big tech companies and Hollywood these past few decades have become filled with complete Philistines. What we see now with Dark Lord Bezos' invasion of the Middle-Earth was already very visible some 10 years ago, when Google set out to digitise the French National Library. They did so exactly in a way barbarians might have entered Rome and very soon Google's cultural ignorance and corporate arrogance resulted not only in their ban from anything related to the digitisation of the French literary and cultural heritage, but also in a huge outrage in France and pretty much in the entire art world, and in a lawsuit against Google. In the end, Google's involvement merely kick-started serious efforts by the Library and by the French government into their own digitisation campaign, but it did not achieve much else - and was stopped very soon after starting it.
Again, whether you personally consider it praiseworthy or not, Tolkien's work has become part of the cultural heritage. We see countless examples from history pointing to the necessity to protect significant works of art against all the Philistines and barbarians out there. How this Amazon's endeavour will pan out is yet to be seen, maybe in the long run it will end in obscurity, who knows?
(There is also the risk that to millions of people out there, this new abomination made by Amazon will become "Tolkien". Ignorant of the books themselves and Tolkien's universe, they will accept this show as something Tolkien created.)
Beware of Hollywood and Bezos bearing gifts!
And sorry Bezos didn't do this but millennia of racist Christians did.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Man, you do not even know what that was referring to and yet make this kind of clueless comments. If there ever was a reason to have a facepalm reaction on this board, it's this comment of yours.
What form of cultural barbarism is more egregious than whitewashing the central figure of the dominant Western religion?
Yeah, let's give that one a pass but get bent out of shape when it's done to some mid-20th century stuffy academic books written by a conservative Catholic from the pre-eminent culturally imperial kingdom up to that time.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
There would be no Dungeons and Dragons without LoTR. No Ultima, No WoW. No Harry Potter (Or at least a drastically different one).
Star Wars? Lucas took from many sources but drafts literally had some word for word conversations between ObiWan (Gandalf) and Luke (Frodo). Certainly no Martin and a song of ice and fire.
Others: Ursula LeGuin, Brooks, Donaldson, Jordan, Pratchett... all draw roots from Tolkien.
They also form the blueprint for “world building” due to the incredible background that Tolkien developed for his world. With thousands of years of history, languages, races (that change and evolve!) heroes, villains… a whole Mythology.
I agree "most of the free world didn't know anything about" Tolkien's work before Peter Jackson. That's still true after Jackson I suspect. But I'd wager that the vast majority of those have in fact experienced works influenced by Tolkien.
Lets be honest... related to our hobby here... As I said above, without Tolkien there is never a Dungeons and Dragons. never an ultima series, never an ultima online, never a WoW (Never a Blizzard at all!). Might there be online games? Maybe... probably.. but one of the driving forces in computing were nerdy fantasy geeks who drove improvement to play better and better games. For other worlds to live in. It's indisputable that western culture would be different if not for Tolkien's work and the inspiration he gave to those who came after.
As for the rights... it's also indisputable that Amazon bought the rights and is spending a billion dollars to produce the show. They can do anything they want to it. They can add spaceships and aliens. Because someone can do something, doesn't mean they should and it doesn't mean other people have to like it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018