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Dual Universe Review - Flawed Ambition | MMORPG.com

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 12,599
edited November 2022 in News & Features Discussion

imageDual Universe Review - Flawed Ambition | MMORPG.com

Dual Universe is ambitious. It aims to create a living, breathing player-driven universe where every interaction is driven by the players, but ultimately falls well short thanks to an unpolished, unfinished experience.

Read the full story here


Kyleran
«1

Comments

  • XanzoXanzo Member UncommonPosts: 137
    I played it a bit before it was released. Proboably as much as you did. But in the end I got burnt out by their being nothing else to do (unless I was into making a huge industry or making some crazy starship). I agree with all of Joe's points and the review in general.
    Kyleran
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,043
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • SpiiderSpiider Member RarePosts: 1,135
    DUs features are excellent! 9/10. Sadly 90% of the features are missing which makes this game a waste of time.
    Kyleraneoloe

    No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    I played in the post-launch Demo for 3 weeks.

    The first week was an exercise in making storage containers.  To accomplish making a medium storage container, it was an ordeal in building a small assembly line and getting the right schematics.  Not only that, there were very frustrating setbacks with the skill system, mostly not having the right skill to operate the assembly line I had worked so hard on.  I made a lot of XS containers on an XS platform, but never actually got a medium made.  1-2 hours a day for week just isn't enough, then the demo reset.

    The second week, I worked hard to build an actual factory, something with walls and a roof.  In the factory, I had placed 3 new XS mining units.  While that was moderately successful, I was unable to build enough storage to keep the mining units running.  Making a multi-colored building is really a pain, because you need to build each color as a separate material, and the voxel tools loved to mix the colors occasionally.  Placing diagonal roof supports was far more difficult than it should have been.

    The third week, I started with a goal.  Build a quonset hut at least 60x30x15 on an XS platform.  A quonset hut is a basic military hut in use since the 1940s, imagine cutting a 55 gallon drum in half (vertically) and dumping it over on it's side.  The voxel tool should be capable of that in no time.  Only it wasn't.  Starting with a solid cylinder, I needed to punch a cylindrical hole through the first, to make the arch.   I wanted a 1 unit wide shell, the best I could do was 2-3 units wide, and it varied because the voxels warped.  Then I cut the circle in half, to make the basic shape.  Picking up an arch was incredibly difficult, and trying to lay it over on its side proved impossible.  Splitting the arch didn't work as anticipated due to the voxels warping again.  Even if I had been successful in building a 60x30x15 arch and managed to pick it up, there would have been no room on an XS platform space (which is about 64x64x64 units); the voxel tools can't move items outside of the base's cubic space, even for adjustments.  (Not to mention, you would need enough material to build the entire outer cylinder in one -- 42,412 units of honeycomb).

    I'm glad I ran out of patience for trying a 4th week.  I wanted to see about a geodesic dome.

    Ultimately, the voxel system *might* be good, but a system using Bezier curves *might* be better for curvilinear surfaces, and far simpler to use.



    KyleranPhaserlight

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • mitech616mitech616 Member UncommonPosts: 108
    This game is an example of a "bad sandbox". You know, the kind where animals are using it for a toilet and it's full of a bunch of abandoned shapes and nonsense from previous kids. Amd after sticking your hands in the mess, you're left feeling a little gross.

    At its core, the game is little more than a crafting simulator with dated graphics that you have to pay a monthly sub for. It's like a poorly-implemented and convoluted offshoot of Satisfactory. But there's nothing satisfying about this game (half-game?).

    I think 5.0 is generous, especially given the subscription model/cost. I'd put it more around 3/10, and make it clear that this game will only appeal to a VERY niche audience, and even then, only for a limited amount of time. I can't in any way see the longevity of this game being good.
    KyleranMcSleazPhaserlight
  • daveospicedaveospice Member UncommonPosts: 366
    edited November 2022
    What was really amazing/surprising to me is knowing that their game was completely featureless (mining being the only gameplay loop) they decided to add FULL loot pvp, last minute (no joke, one of the last major updates was space station combat). It's almost as if they want players to have a bad time. You are literally forced into pvp in a system you know is going to be terrible (just look around you on the barren planets to know the level of detail they go into).
    Kyleran
  • SplattrSplattr Member RarePosts: 565
    edited November 2022

    DarkZorvanReturns said:

    I consider a 5 to be generous, but I'll accept it. I tried the game and just found it to be a clunky, disjointed mess that I had no desire to try to push through to understand.



    Edit: my original post was in no way meant to defend the current state of DU. After reading the above quote, I was surprised by the relatively mild critique of the poster, and replied in what I thought was a joking manner by mirroring the poster's usual tone. I obviously missed with the punchline. I apologize to anyone and everyone involved, and I am editing out my original post (you can still find it in the replies below but it really isn't worth the time or effort to do so). I will be leaving the Blue's Clues video because Blue's Clues kicks ass!

    Post edited by Splattr on
    IselinChampiejamews69MadBomber13
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    I haven't played Dual Universe, but if the physics is accurate, you don't want to fly straight toward a planet with an atmosphere.  Rather, you aim your trajectory so that you'd miss the planet a little but pass through its upper atmosphere, and then let air resistance in the upper atmosphere slow you down enough to land.  That way, by the time you get into the lower atmosphere, you're going much, much slower.

    Remember that heating from atmospheric entry is roughly proportional to (atmospheric density) * (velocity)^3.  That velocity cubed term is a real killer, and you need to make sure that while you're traveling at orbital speeds or higher, you stay in the upper atmosphere where the air might only be 1% or less as thick as it is at the surface.

    Then again, Dual Universe might have just made it really unrealistic in a lot of different ways.  Drag computations are really messy, after all.
  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member RarePosts: 1,139
    To be fair, not understanding something is not necessarily because of depth. "Clunky and disjointed" mechanics can be quite an complication to understanding what actually works within a game. It can also be needless complexity that does not really assist depth, in stead being individual components of play that do not coherently mesh into a single (or several chained) larger game loops.

    So not understanding a game like this does not necessarily preclude a desire for more complex game design in the context of better execution.
    KyleranChampieMadBomber13
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    I think Joseph's complaint wasn't regarding the flight model's complexity so much, rather that the game didn't provide any instruction or warning of the correct way to conduct a safe re-entry which resulted in some tough losses.

    No see where he and I differ is I have no problem if games do expect players to untilize external sources to get a better understanding of game mechanics, has been true of every MMORPG I've ever tried.

    When I first played EVE I willingly printed over 10 player made guides, including a 100 page mining Word Doc.

    I read those documents at least two, even three times before ever downloading the 3 week free trial, and often referenced them in the first few months.

    Some games are more than just light hearted fun, any combat fight simulator is a b!tch to play unless one turns on the cheater takeoff / landing controls. (Which I always did)

    Not saying Dual Universe isn't a mucky mess, don't know and not likely to personally find out as crafting simulators are just not my thing, no matter how well made they might be.

    EVE was perfect for me, I played 10 years and never had to craft anything....made my fortunes in other ways.... usually shooting something, be it ships or rocks.

    Other friends of mine could build Titan's, we all found fun in our own ways....

    The mark of any good sandbox style game...




    UwakionnaScotMadBomber13Splattr

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TokkenTokken Member EpicPosts: 3,644
    too bad, I was hoping this game would have been better!
    Champie

    Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004!  Make PvE GREAT Again!

  • jamews69jamews69 Member UncommonPosts: 9

    Splattr said:



    DarkZorvanReturns said:


    I consider a 5 to be generous, but I'll accept it. I tried the game and just found it to be a clunky, disjointed mess that I had no desire to try to push through to understand.






    I find it ironic that after all the complaints about how new games are just mindless drivel (paraphrasing here) that you don't like this game because you find it too difficult to work through the steep learning curve, or as you put it, a clunky, disjointed mess. Actually, on second thought, I don't find it ironic at all.



    I bet I know other games you find "clunky and disjointed":



    Elden Ring

    Cuphead

    Chess

    Go

    Chutes and Ladders

    Tying your shoes







    i play and quite enjoy elden ring, chess cuphead, not sure what go is ,chutes and ladders(with my kids), and i know how to tie my shoes and drive a stick shift. I was a silver backer for du one of my favorite things to do was mine on a planet i found it relaxing then NQ decided to take that away from players ,then the massive crafting change witch i can understand because one person could quite literally do it all. However ship controls even with LUA help is quite clunky and unless your using LUA and have read a guide re-entry is a pain specially if you have any mass to your ship.The planets feel lifeless (a complaint many have had scinse the beginning) The game is really lacking
    KyleranMadBomber13
  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member RarePosts: 1,139
    Kyleran said:
    I think Joseph's complaint wasn't regarding the flight model's complexity so much, rather that the game didn't provide any instruction or warning of the correct way to conduct a safe re-entry which resulted in some tough losses.
    In my case I was mostly responding to Splattr's comment to Zorvan.

    In regards to not hand-holding, I generally don't mind, and somewhat prefer, when they don't tutorialize everything. Think on that topic I mostly sit in the position of having to also know how obtuse the game's design/mechanics are, and whether or not they are meant to be so.
  • DigDuggyDigDuggy Member RarePosts: 694
    As a rule, I like a minimum of instruction in games.  I enjoy figuring things out and finding my way.  However, with a game as complex as DU, you need a bit more.  I thought it was pretty neat, but just missed the mark somehow.  From what I remember, there were supposed to be a couple of more systems in place, but couldn't swear to it.
  • JnaathraJnaathra Member UncommonPosts: 2
    Bits and pieces of this review and comments remind me of SWG. Just without all the other things that made SWG a more complete MMO package.
    Kyleran
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    Nothing wrong with a steep learning curve as long as the game is good, it the latter part that DU struggles with.

    Some of the issues should be relatively easy to address like a tutorial, other areas the review questioned like performance and lifeless worlds are going to take a lot longer to fix.
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,075
    edited November 2022
    jamews69 said:

    Splattr said:





    I consider a 5 to be generous, but I'll accept it. I tried the game and just found it to be a clunky, disjointed mess that I had no desire to try to push through to understand.






    I find it ironic that after all the complaints about how new games are just mindless drivel (paraphrasing here) that you don't like this game because you find it too difficult to work through the steep learning curve, or as you put it, a clunky, disjointed mess. Actually, on second thought, I don't find it ironic at all.



    I bet I know other games you find "clunky and disjointed":



    Elden Ring

    Cuphead

    Chess

    Go

    Chutes and Ladders

    Tying your shoes







    i play and quite enjoy elden ring, chess cuphead, not sure what go is ,chutes and ladders(with my kids), and i know how to tie my shoes and drive a stick shift. I was a silver backer for du one of my favorite things to do was mine on a planet i found it relaxing then NQ decided to take that away from players ,then the massive crafting change witch i can understand because one person could quite literally do it all. However ship controls even with LUA help is quite clunky and unless your using LUA and have read a guide re-entry is a pain specially if you have any mass to your ship.The planets feel lifeless (a complaint many have had scinse the beginning) The game is really lacking

    One thing I noticed in watching videos both from enthusiastic new players and jaded, disenfranchised veteran backers is that the terrain height variance seems very limited, especially when compared with some other planet simulating games... Rodina, perhaps, and Infinity Battlescape; the "mountains" in Dual Universe appear like... buttes, really.  The 'max height' variable is painfully obvious from an artistic perspective.

    Another fairly damning criticism leveled by the YouTuber "sHuRuLuNi" is that the sandbox elements don't really serve any higher purpose; they are there more or less as artistic sculptures, lacking functionality.  In his comments one player defended DU by comparing it to "Minecraft", but this doesn't appear to be a fair comparison: Minecraft has fairly deep systems that drive gameplay.

    Post edited by Phaserlight on
    KyleranMadBomber13

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • MadBomber13MadBomber13 Member UncommonPosts: 133
    @Splattr

    It's okay if people don't like the same games you like. No need to be a jerk about it. Relax... 
  • SplattrSplattr Member RarePosts: 565

    MadBomber13 said:

    @Splattr

    It's okay if people don't like the same games you like. No need to be a jerk about it. Relax... 



    My post should in no way be associated with a love for DU. I played it for a preview a while back and then tried the free trial when it released, and IMHO it definitely isn't worth buying and subbing in its current state.

    As for being a jerk, my post was merely a lighthearted parody of the target's general posting style. If it came across as anything else, I truly am sorry. I don't actually disagree with the poster...this time ;)
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    edited November 2022
    Its time, yes you already guessed, time for a...Keep Calm And Carry On Posting. :)
  • MadBomber13MadBomber13 Member UncommonPosts: 133
    Splattr said:

    MadBomber13 said:

    @Splattr

    It's okay if people don't like the same games you like. No need to be a jerk about it. Relax... 



    My post should in no way be associated with a love for DU. I played it for a preview a while back and then tried the free trial when it released, and IMHO it definitely isn't worth buying and subbing in its current state.

    As for being a jerk, my post was merely a lighthearted parody of the target's general posting style. If it came across as anything else, I truly am sorry. I don't actually disagree with the poster...this time ;)
    I apologize as well if I misconstrued your post. I think the years on this site have conditioned many of us to always see the worst in posts. 

    Ughhh, all this civilized reasonable posts give me a headache. Anyone want to start a thread on SWG pre NGE vs post? ?


  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    edited November 2022
    Splattr said:


    @Splattr

    It's okay if people don't like the same games you like. No need to be a jerk about it. Relax... 



    My post should in no way be associated with a love for DU. I played it for a preview a while back and then tried the free trial when it released, and IMHO it definitely isn't worth buying and subbing in its current state.

    As for being a jerk, my post was merely a lighthearted parody of the target's general posting style. If it came across as anything else, I truly am sorry. I don't actually disagree with the poster...this time ;)
    I apologize as well if I misconstrued your post. I think the years on this site have conditioned many of us to always see the worst in posts. 

    Ughhh, all this civilized reasonable posts give me a headache. Anyone want to start a thread on SWG pre NGE vs post? ?
    If I had a penny for every time someone had misinterpreted text, I would be a rich man; the parred down nature of a text leaves little room for nuance and tone and don't get me started on the problems with humour.
    MadBomber13Splattr
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,043
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    DarkZorvanReturns said:
    Splattr said:

    MadBomber13 said:

    @Splattr

    It's okay if people don't like the same games you like. No need to be a jerk about it. Relax... 



    My post should in no way be associated with a love for DU. I played it for a preview a while back and then tried the free trial when it released, and IMHO it definitely isn't worth buying and subbing in its current state.

    As for being a jerk, my post was merely a lighthearted parody of the target's general posting style. If it came across as anything else, I truly am sorry. I don't actually disagree with the poster...this time ;)
    It's okay, you know I can't stay mad at you. We still on for dinner?
    Food fight! :)
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    DarkZorvanReturns said:
    Splattr said:

    MadBomber13 said:

    @Splattr

    It's okay if people don't like the same games you like. No need to be a jerk about it. Relax... 



    My post should in no way be associated with a love for DU. I played it for a preview a while back and then tried the free trial when it released, and IMHO it definitely isn't worth buying and subbing in its current state.

    As for being a jerk, my post was merely a lighthearted parody of the target's general posting style. If it came across as anything else, I truly am sorry. I don't actually disagree with the poster...this time ;)
    It's okay, you know I can't stay mad at you. We still on for dinner?
    I blame the anominity of internet forums for making me come across as a jerk.

    In real life I'm actually a pretty nice guy... mostly.
    SovrathScot

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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