Imagine if WoW 2 came out. One of three things would happen. 1- the current WoW players would try it, not like the new mechanics/story/etc, and would go back to WoW. 2- the current WoW players would try it and love it. A mass exodus from WoW would leave it an empty shell. 3- the playerbase would be split between the 2 games, leaving Blizzard with higher production costs and no additional revenue.
None of those scenarios work for the developer. I guess there's a 4th option where enough new/returning players come to WoW 2 that Blizzard makes even more money, but then they would abandon WoW because it wasn't profitable enough. There's never enough profit.
Sequels in movies and single player games work well because they aren't really competing with the original content. That isn't the case with MMOs.
I think you picked one of the few games where that is true (EvE comes to mind as well). But the real old school game populations are low compared to today. UO, DAoC, EQ. How many active subscribers are there to those games? Sure its enough to stay alive but I don't think its more than a drop in the bucket compared to what a UO2 would bring in between box sales and whatever else they monetized.
EQ3? The name alone would sell hundreds of thousands of copies.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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I do not we. As for me, the only thing I need are good RPGs, mmo, classic or otherwise. Hell, I'll take even a mixed genre RPG(say, Disciples or Daemonhunters) provided it's fun enough.
Honestly I wouldn't be mad if WoW relaunched like this.
Looks awesome, but WoW's art style is as much part of the game as everything else. I would like to see an Orcs vs Humans MMO made like this, one with real war and not this hippy shit they have going on now.
I doubt very much we will see much innovation because as long as earning money from MTX and other easier forms of earning surface companies are not motivated to actually create systems to bring players into the genre. They are satisfied with the amount of money they can make and will not really spend money to make gameplay more interesting because it isn't required. Things are only created when there is a necessity. We will probably see better ways to keep our E-wallets secure than actual great gameplay. We are in the Twilight Zone and we will not be getting out any time soon.
I doubt very much we will see much innovation because as long as earning money from MTX and other easier forms of earning surface companies are not motivated to actually create systems to bring players into the genre. They are satisfied with the amount of money they can make and will not really spend money to make gameplay more interesting because it isn't required. Things are only created when there is a necessity. We will probably see better ways to keep our E-wallets secure than actual great gameplay. We are in the Twilight Zone and we will not be getting out any time soon.
The only thing I would say is they are not satisfied with the money they make but they are satisfied with how they make it. NFT's and crypto are still on the horizon, and it won't end there, finding new ways of making money from gaming (other than putting out quality product) will never end.
Personally this biggest issue with new MMO's is they try to reinvent the wheel every time they make a new one. If something works leave it alone. Just update the graphics to modern levels. Make a sequel that is years down the road so that people see what happened because of the events of the first one.
I don't need a new gimmick that will most likely get replaced or reworked every time a new MMO is created. If you make a sequel and leave the formula alone from the first one if it was successful you probably will get the players from the first one.
I really doubt we will see to many new IP's for MMO in the future because of the cost to make an upkeep. In today's world it is all about the throw away games that last a few months then collect whatever they can an are left to rot till they just shut it down.
I wouldn't say necessarily to remake old ones, but we do need more variety in todays MMOs....Too many of them jsut feel the same to me......One of the nice things about the older MMOs (pre-WoW) is that none of them played the same....Every game felt different and unique.
Personally this biggest issue with new MMO's is they try to reinvent the wheel every time they make a new one. If something works leave it alone. Just update the graphics to modern levels. Make a sequel that is years down the road so that people see what happened because of the events of the first one.
I don't need a new gimmick that will most likely get replaced or reworked every time a new MMO is created. If you make a sequel and leave the formula alone from the first one if it was successful you probably will get the players from the first one.
I really doubt we will see to many new IP's for MMO in the future because of the cost to make an upkeep. In today's world it is all about the throw away games that last a few months then collect whatever they can an are left to rot till they just shut it down.
Actually, I don't mind 'reinventing the wheel'. That way innovation (and evolution) can come into the genre. Most MMORPGs simply duplicate the existing wheels as best they can and add new fiction (lore, quests, characters) to the mix. Now I can agree that no one has really attempted to add to the number of 'wheels', i.e., combat, abilities, and crafting.
New IPs in MMORPGs? Possibly, depending on what you consider 'new'. I wouldn't expect many existing IPs to be made into MMORPGs; I consider most of the 'viable' IPs to already have been adopted by MMORPG companies. That, or the IP owner has no interest in this MMORPG nonsense anyway. (Goodbye to any hopes for a Known Space MMORPG).
Someone could always create their own IP -- lore, quests, characters, etc. -- and make a quality game. In fact, most games made or being made do just that, same wheels with different IP.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Why does either have to be an option? People didn't leave World of Warcraft, the factually biggest mmorpg in history at one point in time, because it needed 'new graphics.' Many will argue that was just due to simply a more basic reason, a shift in design philosophy. I wont dig into something that but to put it more simply, developers need to play ALL OF THEIR GAME, not just parts. The problem is that many of these mmorpgs offer 'experiences' but not a cohesive world. Most things added have a short-life span and either made irrelevant as a result or replaces/'update' (aka dumbed down). Using wow as a simple example again, the 'high point' of expansions in that game are the latest patch, not the overall expansion anymore (I guess they can thank scaling for that to a degree). People dont have attachments to things they engage in thus their interests wane overtime. And when you try and utilize a themepark approach to something like this, its obvious people will want to visit other themeparks overtime. Someone going to Disneyland more than likely wont want to ONLY go to Disneyland when they have other options. Creating something more 'current' or redoing something to become 'more current' wont help if the design philosophy is flawed from the start.
I don't think the art style of World of Warcraft ages but the details the pixel count. Sorry terribly uninformed on what you call the high resolution graphics could stand for some improvement but I think they did introduce better resolutions. Seriously though that art style isn't one to age noticeably.
Games like Everquest ages badly not only as far as the blockiness goes but the horrible way the Luclin models stand and run (shudder) that to this day I cannot bring myself to use them. I stick to the blurry older models because they walk and run better. Yes I am an idiot, so sue me but they really look bad. There is also the bad problem with the whole interface and the way you navigate using the different views but none of them work for me.
When I used to play Everquest I used the over the shoulder view which totally does not work anymore for me after playing countless other MMORPGs since Everquest. So in my opinion games like Everquest need a remake to bring it to the more acceptable modern form without destroying the fundamental things that made the game great.
Don't ask me about whether it is worth it and whether there is a market as I'm totally clueless on this point and am merely speaking as a total fan of Everquest. Yes that is me having a shameless pipe dream.
No thank you. Currently, most of the OG mmos live in a dev house that’s just a ghost of their former selves. I can’t see a world where the crew manning the helm at blizzard could out perform the level of talent that was at blizzard 20 years ago.
I would love to see a remake of Asheron's Call. Something that has the most unique story line, creatures, classes I've ever experienced. It would at the very least be fairly unique when compared to everything else out there in the market today.
Developers should focus on creating what they want to. Players would do well to find and enjoy that created which best suits their tastes.
No business outside of an indie shop truly "creates what they want to". Businesses are built on the concept of understanding what will people buy, what is the market demand, what are the sales projections/ROI/etc. Innovation and creativity are important, but business and people's livelihoods are tied to actually making money off these significant investments.
I do take your point though that there is a diverse market of tastes and experiences out there, and better to focus on passion and interest than following the trends, but there's a balance to be found there.
Imagine if WoW 2 came out. One of three things would happen. 1- the current WoW players would try it, not like the new mechanics/story/etc, and would go back to WoW. 2- the current WoW players would try it and love it. A mass exodus from WoW would leave it an empty shell. 3- the playerbase would be split between the 2 games, leaving Blizzard with higher production costs and no additional revenue.
None of those scenarios work for the developer. I guess there's a 4th option where enough new/returning players come to WoW 2 that Blizzard makes even more money, but then they would abandon WoW because it wasn't profitable enough. There's never enough profit.
Sequels in movies and single player games work well because they aren't really competing with the original content. That isn't the case with MMOs.
I agree with a lot of your points here. Making something that was too similar to WoW would likely cannibalize the player base/revenue for WoW.
The problems with MMORPGs is they are predicated on making money back over time, usually on a multi-year horizon. They therefore need to keep adding new things to keep people playing as a live service (which further increases ongoing costs). They cannot just provide a start to finish experience, and have to keep finding ways to be relevant as the marketplace around them changes.
I have felt for years that the themepark design is better suited to sequels than never-ending services. We see, over and over, that whatever the initial population, it always dwindles over time. The studios have to make cutbacks on development to accomodate lesser income, until eventually the once-great studios are down to 10 employees and the company cat. At that point, they're no longer capable of making a sequel.
Much better, imo, to plan your themepark franchise early on. Build the first game, run it for a few years, maybe release an expansion or two, then release game number 2.
Not only do I think this would be better for the players - we would get more MMORPGs released - but I think it would be much better for the studios too. But building more games, they can iterate or fix design more easily. The developers can get more enthusiastic about new projects, rather than working the same game for a decade. They'll get a bigger increase of players with each new game compared to patches/dlc/xpacs.
Now, that only applies to themeparks. Sandboxes are a very different matter as they are designed to be played / lived in for much longer. Remakes or sequels don't really make much sense.
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Comments
EQ3? The name alone would sell hundreds of thousands of copies.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
Looks awesome, but WoW's art style is as much part of the game as everything else. I would like to see an Orcs vs Humans MMO made like this, one with real war and not this hippy shit they have going on now.
I don't need a new gimmick that will most likely get replaced or reworked every time a new MMO is created. If you make a sequel and leave the formula alone from the first one if it was successful you probably will get the players from the first one.
I really doubt we will see to many new IP's for MMO in the future because of the cost to make an upkeep. In today's world it is all about the throw away games that last a few months then collect whatever they can an are left to rot till they just shut it down.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Games like Everquest ages badly not only as far as the blockiness goes but the horrible way the Luclin models stand and run (shudder) that to this day I cannot bring myself to use them. I stick to the blurry older models because they walk and run better. Yes I am an idiot, so sue me but they really look bad. There is also the bad problem with the whole interface and the way you navigate using the different views but none of them work for me.
When I used to play Everquest I used the over the shoulder view which totally does not work anymore for me after playing countless other MMORPGs since Everquest. So in my opinion games like Everquest need a remake to bring it to the more acceptable modern form without destroying the fundamental things that made the game great.
Don't ask me about whether it is worth it and whether there is a market as I'm totally clueless on this point and am merely speaking as a total fan of Everquest. Yes that is me having a shameless pipe dream.
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
No business outside of an indie shop truly "creates what they want to". Businesses are built on the concept of understanding what will people buy, what is the market demand, what are the sales projections/ROI/etc. Innovation and creativity are important, but business and people's livelihoods are tied to actually making money off these significant investments.
I do take your point though that there is a diverse market of tastes and experiences out there, and better to focus on passion and interest than following the trends, but there's a balance to be found there.
I agree with a lot of your points here. Making something that was too similar to WoW would likely cannibalize the player base/revenue for WoW.
The problems with MMORPGs is they are predicated on making money back over time, usually on a multi-year horizon. They therefore need to keep adding new things to keep people playing as a live service (which further increases ongoing costs). They cannot just provide a start to finish experience, and have to keep finding ways to be relevant as the marketplace around them changes.
EQ with modern graphics? Yes, please!
Fallen Earth with modern graphics and some actual support? yes, please!
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