European Parliament to Investigate Lootboxes, Gold Farming, and More, With Potential Regulation To C

System · January 2023

European Parliament to Investigate Lootboxes, Gold Farming, and More, With Potential Regulation To Come | MMORPG.com

The European Parliament has voted overwhelmingly to support adopting a report that calls for updated, consistent rules across Europe that apply to gaming and could lead to regulatory action on things like lootboxes and gold farming.

Read the full story here

Tiller · January 2023

The industries solution has been to not offer their games in those places where loot boxes are not allowed angering gamers. I wish they would figure better ways to monetize games, but here we are.

SKurj · January 2023

Tiller said:

The industries solution has been to not offer their games in those places where loot boxes are not allowed angering gamers. I wish they would figure better ways to monetize games, but here we are.

well if they find the entire EU doesn't allow loot boxes, i am sure they will come up with something...

Vrika · January 2023

Tiller said:

The industries solution has been to not offer their games in those places where loot boxes are not allowed angering gamers. I wish they would figure better ways to monetize games, but here we are.

Not really. Actually the industry solution has been to adapt to legal and cultural requirements of large markets (for example getting M-rating in USA), and ignore requirements of small markets (for example games have not been adapting to Belgium's and Netherland's lootbox bans, have occasionally failed to get rated in Australia, etc.)

EU is big enough market that as long as they manage to make same rules for the whole market, most devs and publishers will adapt and follow those rules.

EDIT: But so far this just means European regulators are investigating stuff. I think it's unlikely that this would result to anything as big as banning lootboxes

Iselin · January 2023

Tiller said:

The industries solution has been to not offer their games in those places where loot boxes are not allowed angering gamers. I wish they would figure better ways to monetize games, but here we are.

Where are you getting that idea from? ESO has loot boxes and players in Belgium and the Netherlands are simply not allowed to buy them.

Tiller · January 2023

Iselin said:

Tiller said:

The industries solution has been to not offer their games in those places where loot boxes are not allowed angering gamers. I wish they would figure better ways to monetize games, but here we are.

Where are you getting that idea from? ESO has loot boxes and players in Belgium and the Netherlands are simply not allowed to buy them.

Diablo Immortal wasn't being released in those countries due to the fact that it had loot boxes and the publisher refused to make a concession. Some folks were angry that it wasn't available.

https://www.eurogamer.net/lootbox-laws-reportedly-block-diablo-immortal-launches

Iselin · January 2023

Tiller said:

Iselin said:

Tiller said:

The industries solution has been to not offer their games in those places where loot boxes are not allowed angering gamers. I wish they would figure better ways to monetize games, but here we are.

Where are you getting that idea from? ESO has loot boxes and players in Belgium and the Netherlands are simply not allowed to buy them.

Diablo Immortal wasn't being released in those countries due to the fact that it had loot boxes and the publisher refused to make a concession. Some folks were angry that it wasn't available.

https://www.eurogamer.net/lootbox-laws-reportedly-block-diablo-immortal-launches

Diablo Immortal is a special case because they got cute and in fact do not sell loot boxes. What they do instead is mini-dungeon runs with reward boxes that are either standard or premium depending on whether you spent money for the special items or not.

Furthermore, those items that only drop from the paid crates are integral to the gameplay (it is definitely pay-to-win after all) so they would have had to totally redesign the whole game to comply.

Most games don't do that. They either sell loot boxes in a cash shop or they don't and if they do, it's trivial to allow it in some places and not others like ESO and other games do.

Raagnarz · January 2023

Good now do it for the north american markets both USA and Canada. Then watch the "free" to play games and developers panic that their greedy cash cow is gone because they actually might have to monetize ethically and not take advantage of people's fomo or addiction. The sooner this shit is banned the better. And I say that living in Las Vegas and knowing the casinos are actually far more ethical than any video game developer these days.

DAOWAce · January 2023

Iselin said:

Most games don't do that.

Ayy yo anyone seen them there gacha games?

It's almost like this is standard business practice on mobile and integral to the entire game.

[Deleted User] · January 2023

The user and all related content has been deleted.

kitarad · January 2023

They are probably doing this to standardize the response across EU since some member countries have already got restrictions in place.

Scot · January 2023

This is long past coming, gaming should not be about gambling. But my original concerns about what might happen if governments take action are taking shape. When Belgium took action it was just about loot boxes, my hope was this would be expanded into all gambling in games but go no further.

The problem is governments once they start legislating never no when to stop, they forget that legislation is not good in of itself, it must be tailored to real issues. Here are some of the things they are now looking at:

"To develop a common European identity verification system to help check the age of players"

"To collect EU-wide data on the average time spent playing games, average in-game spending, socio-psychological effects, present a yearly report to Parliament on it"

Hopefully I don't need to go into the potential issues for players and the gaming industry this could create, it may not go that far, but in my experience once the EU gets its claws into you it always goes too far. Still I applaud them for starting the process of shutting down gambling in gaming, fingers crossed we see some results from this.

kitarad · January 2023

It's true that governments never know when to stop but right now the gaming industry is a runaway train that needs to be stopped.

Vrika · January 2023

Scot said:

This is long past coming, gaming should not be about gambling. But my original concerns about what might happen if governments take action are taking shape. When Belgium took action it was just about loot boxes, my hope was this would be expanded into all gambling in games but go no further.

The problem is governments once they start legislating never no when to stop, they forget that legislation is not good in of itself, it must be tailored to real issues. Here are some of the things they are now looking at:

"To develop a common European identity verification system to help check the age of players"

"To collect EU-wide data on the average time spent playing games, average in-game spending, socio-psychological effects, present a yearly report to Parliament on it"

Hopefully I don't need to go into the potential issues for players and the gaming industry this could create, it may not go that far, but in my experience once the EU gets its claws into you it always goes too far. Still I applaud them for starting the process of shutting down gambling in gaming, fingers crossed we see some results from this.

The data collection should only be understood as them trying to get statistics. EU regulators are way too stuck-up on privacy that they'd ask for companies to give them individual data on players.

And as for the ID-verification system. The lack of good online ID-verification is harming all e-services. If they are ever going to create a good system it's going to be either better age-check for porn, or better ID check for e-commerce and official e-services. Realistically speaking, ID check for games would be a side effect for whatever they create for those. However this parliament decision was focused on games so it's mentioned from the viewpoint of games.

Scot · January 2023

Vrika said:

Scot said:

This is long past coming, gaming should not be about gambling. But my original concerns about what might happen if governments take action are taking shape. When Belgium took action it was just about loot boxes, my hope was this would be expanded into all gambling in games but go no further.

The problem is governments once they start legislating never no when to stop, they forget that legislation is not good in of itself, it must be tailored to real issues. Here are some of the things they are now looking at:

"To develop a common European identity verification system to help check the age of players"

"To collect EU-wide data on the average time spent playing games, average in-game spending, socio-psychological effects, present a yearly report to Parliament on it"

Hopefully I don't need to go into the potential issues for players and the gaming industry this could create, it may not go that far, but in my experience once the EU gets its claws into you it always goes too far. Still I applaud them for starting the process of shutting down gambling in gaming, fingers crossed we see some results from this.

The data collection should only be understood as them trying to get statistics. EU regulators are way too stuck-up on privacy that they'd ask for companies to give them individual data on players.

And as for the ID-verification system. The lack of good online ID-verification is harming all e-services. If they are ever going to create a good system it's going to be either better age-check for porn, or better ID check for e-commerce and official e-services. Realistically speaking, ID check for games would be a side effect for whatever they create for those. However this parliament decision was focused on games so it's mentioned from the viewpoint of games.

I should have mentioned my concerns.

The problem with them collecting statistics for a report every year is that it will be the basis for more legislation into every area of gaming where they think there is an issue. All they need a report every year for is cash shop practices, this leaves the door open for action on anything from players being online too much to that old chestnut violence, whatever is the fashion of politics of the day, "something must be done about it".

An age checking system will potentially be seen as a greater priority than privacy, it will be one more step to us having the internet know who we are as we log on. Governments do not like anonymity but they do like privacy, as we have seen since the internet started the principle of privacy as been challenged by the issue of anonymity and privacy is slowly losing that battle. It is a balance and that balance is in danger of being put out of kilter.

SKurj · January 2023

Raagnarz said:

Good now do it for the north american markets both USA and Canada. Then watch the "free" to play games and developers panic that their greedy cash cow is gone because they actually might have to monetize ethically and not take advantage of people's fomo or addiction. The sooner this shit is banned the better. And I say that living in Las Vegas and knowing the casinos are actually far more ethical than any video game developer these days.

well don't you worry, if they have to change the monetization we could end up with something as bad or worse.. Take a look at mobile ..

lingceapuck · January 2023

HA. IT HAS BEGUN

Kyleran · January 2023

kitarad said:

It's true that governments never know when to stop but right now the gaming industry is a runaway train that needs to be stopped.

Yes, but....

What will people do when the government decides that organized religion needs to be stopped?

Or our choices on what to read, think or say needs to be stopped. (Whoops, that's already been happening)

Or that driving electric cars is better than combustion engines? They really aren't, you just trade one set of environmental problems for another, but pay a ton more money in the process.

How about when governments get to decide what the curriculum is going to be in schools, even going so far as to downplay or rewrite events so certain ethnic groups don't have to "feel bad" about their ancestors past? Happening right now where I live.

How about the right to protest peacefully? Don't step in the street, my state also tried to pass a law basically making hitting such protesters legal, as in, driver could not be charged with a felony for doing so.

I'm overweight, been so most of my life, day's coming I fear when it will be a "crime" for me to be unhealthy.

I fear the hyperbolic, dystopian societies portrayed in books and films such a 1984, Running Man (I'd buy that for a dollar!), The Boyz, or Inside Job are far more realistic than I ever thought possible when I first read or viewed them.

Been my experience in my life every time the government "protects" us, even for good reasons, we, the people lose (or trade away rather) more of our rights.

As quoted by too many TV villains (just saw one on the new Witcher Blood Origins series on Netflix).

I do like Eredin's extra twist to it.

"Balor: Faced with chaos, the people will always choose order. No matter the cost.

Eredin: Or how blatant the farce."

Slapshot1188 · January 2023

Kyleran said:

Been my experience in my life every time the government "protects" us, even for good reasons, we, the people lose (or trade away rather) more of our rights.

In general, I usually support letting marketplace decide and letting people do stupid things. But there are some circumstances where regulations make sense. For instance, a health inspection of a restaurant that shuts the place down for having rodent shit on the stove, oversite of the way airlines train pilots and maintain planes and requiring companies to be truthful in their financial disclosures.

For gaming I think 2 things have to happen. Insure that gambling is restricted from children and have the odds posted.

Talin · January 2023

Removing loot boxes will remove the ability to spend potentially massive amounts of money and overcome odds to achieve desired digital items that allow enhanced effectiveness (heroes, units, equipment, etc.).

That doesn't mean games will not still have the ability to offer these advantages (i.e., pay to win) under passes, direct purchase, etc.

My point is that removing loot boxes itself only addresses the gaming element but doesn't intrinsically remove P2W mechanics or comparable. Still, it would be a step in the right direction.

Scot · January 2023

Talin said:

Removing loot boxes will remove the ability to spend potentially massive amounts of money and overcome odds to achieve desired digital items that allow enhanced effectiveness (heroes, units, equipment, etc.).

That doesn't mean games will not still have the ability to offer these advantages (i.e., pay to win) under passes, direct purchase, etc.

My point is that removing loot boxes itself only addresses the gaming element but doesn't intrinsically remove P2W mechanics or comparable. Still, it would be a step in the right direction.

Quite so, we can't expect them to legislate against P2W, only the gambling. Expecting any government body to understand a concept like gaming ethos and how paying to win undermines that would be like asking for the moon.

Eldrach · January 2023

Irrelevant.
They have moved on from lootboxes - they now offer «season passes» that lasts a very short time - so they can keep charging you for something, and you won’t
even get it, unless you play alot.

giantessfan · January 2023

I think its only a matter of time before lootboxes and the like are banned but I don't think it will happen for years. Like once my generation starts getting into office more instead of these dinosaurs

P.S. I live in US

Vrika · January 2023

Scot said:

Talin said:

Removing loot boxes will remove the ability to spend potentially massive amounts of money and overcome odds to achieve desired digital items that allow enhanced effectiveness (heroes, units, equipment, etc.).

That doesn't mean games will not still have the ability to offer these advantages (i.e., pay to win) under passes, direct purchase, etc.

My point is that removing loot boxes itself only addresses the gaming element but doesn't intrinsically remove P2W mechanics or comparable. Still, it would be a step in the right direction.

Quite so, we can't expect them to legislate against P2W, only the gambling. Expecting any government body to understand a concept like gaming ethos and how paying to win undermines that would be like asking for the moon.

It's not a question of government understanding gaming ethos. They can't ban or regulate the P2W ethos as long as it's not been proven harmful. Just like they can't ban or regulate our other free time activities as long as they don't cause enough harm or danger to justify regulation.

kitarad · January 2023

It isn't about banning the practice but more like placing so many checkpoints for the checking of ages and making sure the purchases are actually made by an adult and forcing companies to place many cumbersome systems to check that children are not making these purchases that it slows down the earnings. Then also adding the possibility of challenging these purchases if a child is making them without authorization so that adults can have recourse instead of the current system where children can buy things with a click or even click and buy them without intending to.

It is about making it as painful as possible for these companies that are targeting children to have a hard time to get that money from a child.

The way you do it is not to ban it but to allow it but make sure that every effort is made by the gaming company and the gaming company has the onus to show that children were not making the purchases without an adult.

So this way the gaming company cannot say they are not going to sell in a particular market as it means they are not interested in protecting children which is never a position they will take publicly. This is why rules have to be set by the EU. Not confrontational but regulatory and ones that place the burden on companies to show they acted in good faith where children are concerned.

nyxium · January 2023

The more overreach allowed, the more crushing of innovation will also be allowed.

Howdy, Stranger!

European Parliament to Investigate Lootboxes, Gold Farming, and More, With Potential Regulation To C

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

European Parliament to Investigate Lootboxes, Gold Farming, and More, With Potential Regulation To C

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV