It isn't about banning the practice but more like placing so many checkpoints for the checking of ages and making sure the purchases are actually made by an adult and forcing companies to place many cumbersome systems to check that children are not making these purchases that it slows down the earnings. Then also adding the possibility of challenging these purchases if a child is making them without authorization so that adults can have recourse instead of the current system where children can buy things with a click or even click and buy them without intending to.
It is about making it as painful as possible for these companies that are targeting children to have a hard time to get that money from a child.
The way you do it is not to ban it but to allow it but make sure that every effort is made by the gaming company and the gaming company has the onus to show that children were not making the purchases without an adult.
So this way the gaming company cannot say they are not going to sell in a particular market as it means they are not interested in protecting children which is never a position they will take publicly. This is why rules have to be set by the EU. Not confrontational but regulatory and ones that place the burden on companies to show they acted in good faith where children are concerned.
Or maybe, just maybe the government could hold the parents responsible?
But putting the most logical solution aside, I have a couple of 9 yr old grans who play online games requently on iPads, Fire tablets and Smart phones.
They can purchase absolutely nothing without either my or their parents approval. They can't even chat on the internet with anyone, except themselves and their parents/ grandparents.
So is there really a big problem with children buying loot boxes? (c'mon, who gives their children unlimited access to money, not this cat for sure). I'm thinking not, rather this is the typical left handed attempt to regulate adult behavior with the "think of the children" sympathy ploy.
Would make more sense to put regulations in place to protect the elderly who increasingly makes up larger and larger portions of the gaming space. My guess is they are some of the biggest spenders, not your average minor child.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The industries solution has been to not offer their games in those places where loot boxes are not allowed angering gamers. I wish they would figure better ways to monetize games, but here we are.
well if they find the entire EU doesn't allow loot boxes, i am sure they will come up with something...
Some will, most likely. Probably most. None certainly. Essentially, things would likely work out overall but it's not something that be counted on.
I think its only a matter of time before lootboxes and the like are banned but I don't think it will happen for years. Like once my generation starts getting into office more instead of these dinosaurs
P.S. I live in US
By the time most elected in the U.S. get into a position of significant political influence they will be firmly allied with their dinosaurs of choice or be one of them.
And yet we arent allowed to discuss politics on this site.
(Most unrealistic condition ever. Politics influences everything. If you dont want to talk about politics, you can talk about nothing relating in any way to reality. Mathematics is possible. Physics already isnt, because you have to have a lot of hardware in physics, and thats where politicians come in. Really so far all I can think of is mathematics, everything else relates too much to reality)
It isn't about banning the practice but more like placing so many checkpoints for the checking of ages and making sure the purchases are actually made by an adult and forcing companies to place many cumbersome systems to check that children are not making these purchases that it slows down the earnings. Then also adding the possibility of challenging these purchases if a child is making them without authorization so that adults can have recourse instead of the current system where children can buy things with a click or even click and buy them without intending to.
It is about making it as painful as possible for these companies that are targeting children to have a hard time to get that money from a child.
The way you do it is not to ban it but to allow it but make sure that every effort is made by the gaming company and the gaming company has the onus to show that children were not making the purchases without an adult.
So this way the gaming company cannot say they are not going to sell in a particular market as it means they are not interested in protecting children which is never a position they will take publicly. This is why rules have to be set by the EU. Not confrontational but regulatory and ones that place the burden on companies to show they acted in good faith where children are concerned.
Or maybe, just maybe the government could hold the parents responsible?
But putting the most logical solution aside, I have a couple of 9 yr old grans who play online games requently on iPads, Fire tablets and Smart phones.
They can purchase absolutely nothing without either my or their parents approval. They can't even chat on the internet with anyone, except themselves and their parents/ grandparents.
So is there really a big problem with children buying loot boxes? (c'mon, who gives their children unlimited access to money, not this cat for sure). I'm thinking not, rather this is the typical left handed attempt to regulate adult behavior with the "think of the children" sympathy ploy.
Would make more sense to put regulations in place to protect the elderly who increasingly makes up larger and larger portions of the gaming space. My guess is they are some of the biggest spenders, not your average minor child.
Just wait until those children are a couple of years older. Then they'll be able to buy a $20 gift card from local store and trying to supervise their spending becomes unrealistic.
Which imho wouldn't be a problem if the children were using their gift card to buy an in-game sparkle pony. But it's a problem when children still learning to spend their own money end up buying lootboxes.
It isn't about banning the practice but more like placing so many checkpoints for the checking of ages and making sure the purchases are actually made by an adult and forcing companies to place many cumbersome systems to check that children are not making these purchases that it slows down the earnings. Then also adding the possibility of challenging these purchases if a child is making them without authorization so that adults can have recourse instead of the current system where children can buy things with a click or even click and buy them without intending to.
It is about making it as painful as possible for these companies that are targeting children to have a hard time to get that money from a child.
The way you do it is not to ban it but to allow it but make sure that every effort is made by the gaming company and the gaming company has the onus to show that children were not making the purchases without an adult.
So this way the gaming company cannot say they are not going to sell in a particular market as it means they are not interested in protecting children which is never a position they will take publicly. This is why rules have to be set by the EU. Not confrontational but regulatory and ones that place the burden on companies to show they acted in good faith where children are concerned.
Or maybe, just maybe the government could hold the parents responsible?
But putting the most logical solution aside, I have a couple of 9 yr old grans who play online games requently on iPads, Fire tablets and Smart phones.
They can purchase absolutely nothing without either my or their parents approval. They can't even chat on the internet with anyone, except themselves and their parents/ grandparents.
So is there really a big problem with children buying loot boxes? (c'mon, who gives their children unlimited access to money, not this cat for sure). I'm thinking not, rather this is the typical left handed attempt to regulate adult behavior with the "think of the children" sympathy ploy.
Would make more sense to put regulations in place to protect the elderly who increasingly makes up larger and larger portions of the gaming space. My guess is they are some of the biggest spenders, not your average minor child.
Once kids start going to friend's houses you cannot control what they get into. You cannot supervise them that closely at those places and your attempts to do so will be met with resentment. As the child grows older "not trusting them' to some extent becomes an issue in itself and very tiring for a parent to continuously argue over.
Social media availability and the spread of numerous devices in the hands of children in school will mean your children inevitably becomes exposed to gambling in one form or another. As a child I stole from my parents to buy what I needed. Are you so sure you can continuously keep this part of gaming that is so prevalent from your children or grandchildren.
I rather there be built in safeguards than rely on my vigilance that will be guaranteed to fail.
I also do not understand the reluctance to place safeguards to protect our children. Why are you supporting these shady practices where gaming companies are clearly going after the young who are easily drawn in and begin a lifetime addiction to gambling. Thanks to the cleverly employed systems they know are doing this deliberately creating another generation of gamers that will continue to feed these greedy companies.
It isn't about banning the practice but more like placing so many checkpoints for the checking of ages and making sure the purchases are actually made by an adult and forcing companies to place many cumbersome systems to check that children are not making these purchases that it slows down the earnings. Then also adding the possibility of challenging these purchases if a child is making them without authorization so that adults can have recourse instead of the current system where children can buy things with a click or even click and buy them without intending to.
It is about making it as painful as possible for these companies that are targeting children to have a hard time to get that money from a child.
The way you do it is not to ban it but to allow it but make sure that every effort is made by the gaming company and the gaming company has the onus to show that children were not making the purchases without an adult.
So this way the gaming company cannot say they are not going to sell in a particular market as it means they are not interested in protecting children which is never a position they will take publicly. This is why rules have to be set by the EU. Not confrontational but regulatory and ones that place the burden on companies to show they acted in good faith where children are concerned.
Or maybe, just maybe the government could hold the parents responsible?
But putting the most logical solution aside, I have a couple of 9 yr old grans who play online games requently on iPads, Fire tablets and Smart phones.
They can purchase absolutely nothing without either my or their parents approval. They can't even chat on the internet with anyone, except themselves and their parents/ grandparents.
So is there really a big problem with children buying loot boxes? (c'mon, who gives their children unlimited access to money, not this cat for sure). I'm thinking not, rather this is the typical left handed attempt to regulate adult behavior with the "think of the children" sympathy ploy.
Would make more sense to put regulations in place to protect the elderly who increasingly makes up larger and larger portions of the gaming space. My guess is they are some of the biggest spenders, not your average minor child.
Just wait until those children are a couple of years older. Then they'll be able to buy a $20 gift card from local store and trying to supervise their spending becomes unrealistic.
Which imho wouldn't be a problem if the children were using their gift card to buy an in-game sparkle pony. But it's a problem when children still learning to spend their own money end up buying lootboxes.
If only purchasing loot boxes were my biggest worry once they get into their teenage years.
There's no such thing as "their own money", access to it will be heavily controlled and doled out quite sparingly.
My Mom always said no good can come from giving children too much money so the 80/20 rule will be applied.
80% of every dollar received to savings, 20% for themselves...be lucky if they can afford to pay for their weekly vape juice expenses and cosmetics, forget about loot boxes.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You're so naive. I used to sell stuff from my house to get money but luckily it was to buy books and not lootboxes. My father found out when he could not find the tools he had bought and I was beaten but hey that never stopped my next caper.
The more overreach allowed, the more crushing of innovation will also be allowed.
If by innovation you mean a large amount of resources and development time spent on how these companies suck the money out of you instead of working on the game, then yes I would agree.
It isn't about banning the practice but more like placing so many checkpoints for the checking of ages and making sure the purchases are actually made by an adult and forcing companies to place many cumbersome systems to check that children are not making these purchases that it slows down the earnings. Then also adding the possibility of challenging these purchases if a child is making them without authorization so that adults can have recourse instead of the current system where children can buy things with a click or even click and buy them without intending to.
It is about making it as painful as possible for these companies that are targeting children to have a hard time to get that money from a child.
The way you do it is not to ban it but to allow it but make sure that every effort is made by the gaming company and the gaming company has the onus to show that children were not making the purchases without an adult.
So this way the gaming company cannot say they are not going to sell in a particular market as it means they are not interested in protecting children which is never a position they will take publicly. This is why rules have to be set by the EU. Not confrontational but regulatory and ones that place the burden on companies to show they acted in good faith where children are concerned.
Or maybe, just maybe the government could hold the parents responsible?
But putting the most logical solution aside, I have a couple of 9 yr old grans who play online games requently on iPads, Fire tablets and Smart phones.
They can purchase absolutely nothing without either my or their parents approval. They can't even chat on the internet with anyone, except themselves and their parents/ grandparents.
So is there really a big problem with children buying loot boxes? (c'mon, who gives their children unlimited access to money, not this cat for sure). I'm thinking not, rather this is the typical left handed attempt to regulate adult behavior with the "think of the children" sympathy ploy.
Would make more sense to put regulations in place to protect the elderly who increasingly makes up larger and larger portions of the gaming space. My guess is they are some of the biggest spenders, not your average minor child.
Just wait until those children are a couple of years older. Then they'll be able to buy a $20 gift card from local store and trying to supervise their spending becomes unrealistic.
Which imho wouldn't be a problem if the children were using their gift card to buy an in-game sparkle pony. But it's a problem when children still learning to spend their own money end up buying lootboxes.
If only purchasing loot boxes were my biggest worry once they get into their teenage years.
There's no such thing as "their own money", access to it will be heavily controlled and doled out quite sparingly.
My Mom always said no good can come from giving children too much money so the 80/20 rule will be applied.
80% of every dollar received to savings, 20% for themselves...be lucky if they can afford to pay for their weekly vape juice expenses and cosmetics, forget about loot boxes.
Never had this issue restricting cash was never used on me by my parents I did that on myself lmao, because I always worked for my money when I was a kid, everytime I spent money on games I was always thinking how much is this really worth to me? Will it be good long term or short term, I avoided short term happiness alot because even as a kid I over thought on alot of things which in hindset is not always bad.
I like saving money more then I like spending it to the point I only get drunk like once a month and I don't even smoke because the average smoker when they quit could buy a new pair of shoes.
Ideally the child learns to use cash as he earns it and then spends what he's earned himself. I learned to use cash that way too, and that's why I think Kyleran's style of trying to restrict child's cash use is a bad idea, it does not lead to learning.
But I think stuff like lootboxes are too difficult for a child to learn with. We should give children easy to understand situations where they can pay set amount of money and know exactly what they'll get in exchange.
It's true that governments never know when to stop but right now the gaming industry is a runaway train that needs to be stopped.
Yes, but....
What will people do when the government decides that organized religion needs to be stopped?
Or our choices on what to read, think or say needs to be stopped. (Whoops, that's already been happening)
Or that driving electric cars is better than combustion engines? They really aren't, you just trade one set of environmental problems for another, but pay a ton more money in the process.
How about when governments get to decide what the curriculum is going to be in schools, even going so far as to downplay or rewrite events so certain ethnic groups don't have to "feel bad" about their ancestors past? Happening right now where I live.
How about the right to protest peacefully? Don't step in the street, my state also tried to pass a law basically making hitting such protesters legal, as in, driver could not be charged with a felony for doing so.
I'm overweight, been so most of my life, day's coming I fear when it will be a "crime" for me to be unhealthy.
I fear the hyperbolic, dystopian societies portrayed in books and films such a 1984, Running Man (I'd buy that for a dollar!), The Boyz, or Inside Job are far more realistic than I ever thought possible when I first read or viewed them.
Been my experience in my life every time the government "protects" us, even for good reasons, we, the people lose (or trade away rather) more of our rights.
As quoted by too many TV villains (just saw one on the new Witcher Blood Origins series on Netflix).
I do like Eredin's extra twist to it.
"Balor: Faced with chaos, the people will always choose order. No matter the cost.
Eredin: Or how blatant the farce."
No offense, but you're offering a poster child example for why folks shouldn't try to outsmart experts. Most folks who bemoan the loss of a right dur to industry standardization or regulations are incredibly misinformed about the actual status or effects of their rights as it stands.
No, electric cars are not as bad for the environment as gas cars. Not by a long-shot. No, electric cars aren't zero emissions- the EPA tracks non-localized emissions (the very ones you mention) because they're not stupid and they actually have experience measuring emissions.
Regulations are a tool used by pretty much all governments. They aren't inherently good or bad. I've said it before: they're sort of like a hammer. You can use it to build a home, or to cave a skull.
The issue isn't that regulations exist or are a common tool. The issue is in who determines what the regulations are, and that's a reflection of the electorate's collective choice.
So in the end, if we feel stupid regulations are being passed in our area, we're at least partially to blame (assuming we're in a country where we can choose our representatives in government).
The concept of “Gateway” gambling comes into play. Keep it away from kids.
Time to put a stop to those damn Pokemon card sellers and of course, baseball cards and maybe even gumball machines.
RNG for money is bad for children, mkay?
Lets just remove the age restrictions for smoking, drinking and guns. Cause... in for a penny in for a pound as they say.
That's gonna end well...
Funny, I partook of all 3 of those well before I reached legal age.
Kidz will be kidz....
Not gambling really, well, except for the mafia run football betting pools Dad brought home and punch boards at Mom's beauty shop when she took us with her.
We never wore seat belts either...it's a wonder we ever survived.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The concept of “Gateway” gambling comes into play. Keep it away from kids.
Time to put a stop to those damn Pokemon card sellers and of course, baseball cards and maybe even gumball machines.
RNG for money is bad for children, mkay?
Lets just remove the age restrictions for smoking, drinking and guns. Cause... in for a penny in for a pound as they say.
That's gonna end well...
Funny, I partook of all 3 of those well before I reached legal age.
Kidz will be kidz....
Not gambling really, well, except for the mafia run football betting pools Dad brought home and punch boards at Mom's beauty shop when she took us with her.
We never wore seat belts either...it's a wonder we ever survived.
So just to be clear: you are suggesting we remove all age restrictions on the sale and use of alcohol, cigarettes and firearms?
Im pretty Libertarian but IMHO children are one category that does need to have restrictions
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The concept of “Gateway” gambling comes into play. Keep it away from kids.
Time to put a stop to those damn Pokemon card sellers and of course, baseball cards and maybe even gumball machines.
RNG for money is bad for children, mkay?
Lets just remove the age restrictions for smoking, drinking and guns. Cause... in for a penny in for a pound as they say.
That's gonna end well...
Funny, I partook of all 3 of those well before I reached legal age.
Kidz will be kidz....
Not gambling really, well, except for the mafia run football betting pools Dad brought home and punch boards at Mom's beauty shop when she took us with her.
We never wore seat belts either...it's a wonder we ever survived.
So just to be clear: you are suggesting we remove all age restrictions on the sale and use of alcohol, cigarettes and firearms?
Im pretty Libertarian but IMHO children are one category that does need to have restrictions
Hmm, you are being uncharacteristically obtuse and hyperbolic, been hanging around @delete5250 lately?
What I was trying to say is the government is using a false flag to put limits on adults who are the real targets of this effort.
I'm saying children can only spend the money their parents permit them to and parents should be held accountable if their children misbehaving or do things they shouldn't be doing.
No need for over-reaching laws and state sponsored identification systems to solve a "minor" issue.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The concept of “Gateway” gambling comes into play. Keep it away from kids.
Time to put a stop to those damn Pokemon card sellers and of course, baseball cards and maybe even gumball machines.
RNG for money is bad for children, mkay?
Lets just remove the age restrictions for smoking, drinking and guns. Cause... in for a penny in for a pound as they say.
That's gonna end well...
Funny, I partook of all 3 of those well before I reached legal age.
Kidz will be kidz....
Not gambling really, well, except for the mafia run football betting pools Dad brought home and punch boards at Mom's beauty shop when she took us with her.
We never wore seat belts either...it's a wonder we ever survived.
So just to be clear: you are suggesting we remove all age restrictions on the sale and use of alcohol, cigarettes and firearms?
Im pretty Libertarian but IMHO children are one category that does need to have restrictions
Hmm, you are being uncharacteristically obtuse and hyperbolic, been hanging around @delete5250 lately?
What I was trying to say is the government is using a false flag to put limits on adults who are the real targets of this effort.
I'm saying children can only spend the money their parents permit them to and parents should be held accountable if their children misbehaving or do things they shouldn't be doing.
No need for over-reaching laws and state sponsored identification systems to solve a "minor" issue.
How is that any different from Smoking, drinking and guns?
Children theoretically have the same access to cash for those that they have for gambling games. So I am not intentionally trying to be obtuse but your argument applies equally to the items I outlined. If parents should be responsible for preventing kids from accessing gambling games (and held accountable) then why the need for laws and regulations around anything for kids?
Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The concept of “Gateway” gambling comes into play. Keep it away from kids.
Time to put a stop to those damn Pokemon card sellers and of course, baseball cards and maybe even gumball machines.
RNG for money is bad for children, mkay?
Lets just remove the age restrictions for smoking, drinking and guns. Cause... in for a penny in for a pound as they say.
That's gonna end well...
Funny, I partook of all 3 of those well before I reached legal age.
Kidz will be kidz....
Not gambling really, well, except for the mafia run football betting pools Dad brought home and punch boards at Mom's beauty shop when she took us with her.
We never wore seat belts either...it's a wonder we ever survived.
So just to be clear: you are suggesting we remove all age restrictions on the sale and use of alcohol, cigarettes and firearms?
Im pretty Libertarian but IMHO children are one category that does need to have restrictions
Hmm, you are being uncharacteristically obtuse and hyperbolic, been hanging around @delete5250 lately?
What I was trying to say is the government is using a false flag to put limits on adults who are the real targets of this effort.
I'm saying children can only spend the money their parents permit them to and parents should be held accountable if their children misbehaving or do things they shouldn't be doing.
No need for over-reaching laws and state sponsored identification systems to solve a "minor" issue.
How is that any different from Smoking, drinking and guns?
Children theoretically have the same access to cash for those that they have for gambling games. So I am not intentionally trying to be obtuse but your argument applies equally to the items I outlined. If parents should be responsible for preventing kids from accessing gambling games (and held accountable) then why the need for laws and regulations around anything for kids?
To cover children raised by the other 45% of irresponsible parents perhaps ...but I'd prefer to "encourage" and educate parents to step up and do the job they signed up for rather than forcing the gaming industry to put in onerous controls on the other side which can be used against both adult and parents alike.
"Spending Controls: All three of the major console platforms, plus PC and mobile devices, have the ability to manage spending in games available on those platforms.
Depending upon the platform, the user can set spending limits or block spending altogether. In fact, when it comes to child accounts, some platforms have a default spending limit set to zero.
Additionally, each of the console platforms have a simple-to-use companion mobile app that enables parents to control and monitor remotely from their smartphone what, when and with whom their children play.
• According to a recent study commissioned by the ESRB and conducted by Hart Research
Associates, 90% of parents said that they require permission before allowing their kids to make any in-game purchases with real money, and 74% said there is no flexibility with this rule. While laying down the law is important, so is enforcement, with 55% of parents using parental controls to limit (or block) in-game purchases."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The concept of “Gateway” gambling comes into play. Keep it away from kids.
Time to put a stop to those damn Pokemon card sellers and of course, baseball cards and maybe even gumball machines.
RNG for money is bad for children, mkay?
Lets just remove the age restrictions for smoking, drinking and guns. Cause... in for a penny in for a pound as they say.
That's gonna end well...
Funny, I partook of all 3 of those well before I reached legal age.
Kidz will be kidz....
Not gambling really, well, except for the mafia run football betting pools Dad brought home and punch boards at Mom's beauty shop when she took us with her.
We never wore seat belts either...it's a wonder we ever survived.
So just to be clear: you are suggesting we remove all age restrictions on the sale and use of alcohol, cigarettes and firearms?
Im pretty Libertarian but IMHO children are one category that does need to have restrictions
Hmm, you are being uncharacteristically obtuse and hyperbolic, been hanging around @delete5250 lately?
What I was trying to say is the government is using a false flag to put limits on adults who are the real targets of this effort.
I'm saying children can only spend the money their parents permit them to and parents should be held accountable if their children misbehaving or do things they shouldn't be doing.
No need for over-reaching laws and state sponsored identification systems to solve a "minor" issue.
How is that any different from Smoking, drinking and guns?
Children theoretically have the same access to cash for those that they have for gambling games. So I am not intentionally trying to be obtuse but your argument applies equally to the items I outlined. If parents should be responsible for preventing kids from accessing gambling games (and held accountable) then why the need for laws and regulations around anything for kids?
To cover children raised by the other 45% of irresponsible parents perhaps ...but I'd prefer to "encourage" and educate parents to step up and do the job they signed up for rather than forcing the gaming industry to put in onerous controls on the other side which can be used against both adult and parents alike.
"Spending Controls: All three of the major console platforms, plus PC and mobile devices, have the ability to manage spending in games available on those platforms.
Depending upon the platform, the user can set spending limits or block spending altogether. In fact, when it comes to child accounts, some platforms have a default spending limit set to zero.
Additionally, each of the console platforms have a simple-to-use companion mobile app that enables parents to control and monitor remotely from their smartphone what, when and with whom their children play.
• According to a recent study commissioned by the ESRB and conducted by Hart Research
Associates, 90% of parents said that they require permission before allowing their kids to make any in-game purchases with real money, and 74% said there is no flexibility with this rule. While laying down the law is important, so is enforcement, with 55% of parents using parental controls to limit (or block) in-game purchases."
I don't equate loot boxes in video games with physically harmful vices such as smoking, drinking alcohol or firearms.
I view them being in the same category as trading cards, gacha machines and most other more benign RNG activities children might be exposed to.
I'd rather lawmakers ban lottery commercials from TV, those potentially influence far more children in a bad way.
Firearms aren't a vice
Drinking as low as age 13 is allowed in some countries...
As for parent controls... sure. In theory. But most 13 year olds today can setup their OWN accounts with some made up email address and click through whatever popups come on the screen.
Of course parents have the ultimate responsibility. Just like they do for smoking, drinking and guns. But that doesn't and SHOULDN'T give free reign to gaming companies to TARGET kids
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
To cover children raised by the other 45% of irresponsible parents perhaps ...but I'd prefer to "encourage" and educate parents to step up and do the job they signed up for rather than forcing the gaming industry to put in onerous controls on the other side which can be used against both adult and parents alike.
Actually, parents have been making their children in a society where by law no-one is allowed to sell stuff inappropriate to children without checking that the buyer is at least 18. The ID check is for alcohol, tobacco, guns and gambling. I'm not sure if car sellers and sex workers have such a law, but regardless they'd face severe penalties if they gave what they're selling to a child.
As tech advances extending the responsibility to check that the buyer is of age to online purchases is in line with how society's been sharing that responsibility.
From my point of view you're just shirking your responsibility when you're trying to claim right to buy 18+ stuff online without verification that you're of age. That verification was always your responsibility as an adult, and switching your 18+ purchases from old tech to new tech does not release you from your responsibilities.
This doesn't mean parents wouldn't have any responsibility. But the responsibility of 18+ stuff has always been shared by parents who need to watch after their children, and businesses who need to check that they aren't selling to a child.
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But putting the most logical solution aside, I have a couple of 9 yr old grans who play online games requently on iPads, Fire tablets and Smart phones.
They can purchase absolutely nothing without either my or their parents approval. They can't even chat on the internet with anyone, except themselves and their parents/ grandparents.
So is there really a big problem with children buying loot boxes? (c'mon, who gives their children unlimited access to money, not this cat for sure). I'm thinking not, rather this is the typical left handed attempt to regulate adult behavior with the "think of the children" sympathy ploy.
Would make more sense to put regulations in place to protect the elderly who increasingly makes up larger and larger portions of the gaming space. My guess is they are some of the biggest spenders, not your average minor child.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Keep it away from kids.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
RNG for money is bad for children, mkay?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Some will, most likely. Probably most. None certainly. Essentially, things would likely work out overall but it's not something that be counted on.
By the time most elected in the U.S. get into a position of significant political influence they will be firmly allied with their dinosaurs of choice or be one of them.
Which imho wouldn't be a problem if the children were using their gift card to buy an in-game sparkle pony. But it's a problem when children still learning to spend their own money end up buying lootboxes.
Once kids start going to friend's houses you cannot control what they get into. You cannot supervise them that closely at those places and your attempts to do so will be met with resentment. As the child grows older "not trusting them' to some extent becomes an issue in itself and very tiring for a parent to continuously argue over.
Social media availability and the spread of numerous devices in the hands of children in school will mean your children inevitably becomes exposed to gambling in one form or another. As a child I stole from my parents to buy what I needed. Are you so sure you can continuously keep this part of gaming that is so prevalent from your children or grandchildren.
I rather there be built in safeguards than rely on my vigilance that will be guaranteed to fail.
I also do not understand the reluctance to place safeguards to protect our children. Why are you supporting these shady practices where gaming companies are clearly going after the young who are easily drawn in and begin a lifetime addiction to gambling. Thanks to the cleverly employed systems they know are doing this deliberately creating another generation of gamers that will continue to feed these greedy companies.
There's no such thing as "their own money", access to it will be heavily controlled and doled out quite sparingly.
My Mom always said no good can come from giving children too much money so the 80/20 rule will be applied.
80% of every dollar received to savings, 20% for themselves...be lucky if they can afford to pay for their weekly vape juice expenses and cosmetics, forget about loot boxes.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
That's gonna end well...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
But I think stuff like lootboxes are too difficult for a child to learn with. We should give children easy to understand situations where they can pay set amount of money and know exactly what they'll get in exchange.
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
No, electric cars are not as bad for the environment as gas cars. Not by a long-shot. No, electric cars aren't zero emissions- the EPA tracks non-localized emissions (the very ones you mention) because they're not stupid and they actually have experience measuring emissions.
Regulations are a tool used by pretty much all governments. They aren't inherently good or bad. I've said it before: they're sort of like a hammer. You can use it to build a home, or to cave a skull.
So in the end, if we feel stupid regulations are being passed in our area, we're at least partially to blame (assuming we're in a country where we can choose our representatives in government).
Kidz will be kidz....
Not gambling really, well, except for the mafia run football betting pools Dad brought home and punch boards at Mom's beauty shop when she took us with her.
We never wore seat belts either...it's a wonder we ever survived.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Im pretty Libertarian but IMHO children are one category that does need to have restrictions
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What I was trying to say is the government is using a false flag to put limits on adults who are the real targets of this effort.
I'm saying children can only spend the money their parents permit them to and parents should be held accountable if their children misbehaving or do things they shouldn't be doing.
No need for over-reaching laws and state sponsored identification systems to solve a "minor" issue.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Children theoretically have the same access to cash for those that they have for gambling games. So I am not intentionally trying to be obtuse but your argument applies equally to the items I outlined. If parents should be responsible for preventing kids from accessing gambling games (and held accountable) then why the need for laws and regulations around anything for kids?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Depending upon the platform, the user can set spending limits or block spending altogether. In fact, when it comes to child accounts, some platforms have a default spending limit set to zero.
Additionally, each of the console platforms have a simple-to-use companion mobile app that enables parents to control and monitor remotely from their smartphone what, when and with whom their children play.
https://www.theesa.com/policy/in-game-purchases/
I don't equate loot boxes in video games with physically harmful vices such as smoking, drinking alcohol or firearms.
I view them being in the same category as trading cards, gacha machines and most other more benign RNG activities children might be exposed to.
I'd rather lawmakers ban lottery commercials from TV, those potentially influence far more children in a bad way.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Drinking as low as age 13 is allowed in some countries...
As for parent controls... sure. In theory. But most 13 year olds today can setup their OWN accounts with some made up email address and click through whatever popups come on the screen.
Of course parents have the ultimate responsibility. Just like they do for smoking, drinking and guns. But that doesn't and SHOULDN'T give free reign to gaming companies to TARGET kids
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
As tech advances extending the responsibility to check that the buyer is of age to online purchases is in line with how society's been sharing that responsibility.
From my point of view you're just shirking your responsibility when you're trying to claim right to buy 18+ stuff online without verification that you're of age. That verification was always your responsibility as an adult, and switching your 18+ purchases from old tech to new tech does not release you from your responsibilities.
This doesn't mean parents wouldn't have any responsibility. But the responsibility of 18+ stuff has always been shared by parents who need to watch after their children, and businesses who need to check that they aren't selling to a child.