No fast travel is just the devs saying they ran out of ideas to keep the customer entertained so now they using running around as content instead. Add double to that lack of inventory that forces people to shuttle back and forth.
They will come up with anything to pass time other than real content that people like doing. If they could convince people that watching paint dry was fun, then they would stick that in also.
No fast travel is just the devs saying they ran out of ideas to keep the customer entertained so now they using running around as content instead. Add double to that lack of inventory that forces people to shuttle back and forth.
They will come up with anything to pass time other than real content that people like doing. If they could convince people that watching paint dry was fun, then they would stick that in also.
The Devs actually have to add speed to games now. The player base isn't big enough to support enjoying a journey like the old days. Besides the new player base didn't grow up enjoying the journey. They had save points and instant gratification. They don't have the patience we grew up with starting games over from the beginning after we died. Like the original Nintendo or PlayStation 2.
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
I don't think it is black or white here. It's more the amount of teleports in comparison to world size and their locations.
No one wants to run for 20 minutes, but at the same time reaching each point on the map within 2 minutes is also bad.
You should even go that far to have the distance between port and location different depending on the location type (raid, dungeon, hidden vendor, skill trainer, quest hub ...)
No fast travel is just the devs saying they ran out of ideas to keep the customer entertained so now they using running around as content instead. Add double to that lack of inventory that forces people to shuttle back and forth.
They will come up with anything to pass time other than real content that people like doing. If they could convince people that watching paint dry was fun, then they would stick that in also.
The Devs actually have to add speed to games now. The player base isn't big enough to support enjoying a journey like the old days. Besides the new player base didn't grow up enjoying the journey. They had save points and instant gratification. They don't have the patience we grew up with starting games over from the beginning after we died. Like the original Nintendo or PlayStation 2.
What old days are you referring too? UO in 1997 has instant teleports almost EVERYWHERE to a specific coordinate if you had a runestone there. On top of that you could have teleport books that held many different locations. People would make entire houses of teleport books to every destination in the entire world. They all had gate spells to port in unlimited people. I suppose you are talking about a specific game.
So with all that teleporting the world was extremely immersive. There was plenty of exploration etc...
There are plenty of games that allow portals all over. I dont see how this is a problem at all. If you dont like portals you can always just take the long way and run?
Whats funny is all the whiners saying they dont want portals, will use every single portal in any game that has one. LOL
Fast travel is a bane of MMOs, traveling on foot or by mount is how a MMO should be played. I accept that if the distances are huge it becomes too much, but name a MMO that does not have fast travel where the distances are too huge? As long as the travel time time is not arduous who does not want to be riding through beautiful scenery?
Fast travel is a bane of MMOs, traveling on foot or by mount is how a MMO should be played. I accept that if the distances are huge it becomes too much, but name a MMO that does not have fast travel where the distances are too huge? As long as the travel time time is not arduous who does not want to be riding through beautiful scenery?
Any MMO without fast travel is too huge. I dont like wasting time running back and forth 1000 times over the exact same path.
What I dont understand, is why would it even bother you to have fast travel or not? You can just opt not to use it? LOL everyone uses it, its moronic not too. I have never ever ever met a single person that said I am not going to fast travel and will opt to run from x to y because I like it.
Do you also opt out of mounts too? Whats the difference? Why not stick your char into a slow forced walk option, as many games offer that too. Maximize your fun right? Yeah somehow if these were so fun you would be doing it, but I know you are not. Nobody does, unless they are joking around.
Fast travel is a bane of MMOs, traveling on foot or by mount is how a MMO should be played. I accept that if the distances are huge it becomes too much, but name a MMO that does not have fast travel where the distances are too huge? As long as the travel time time is not arduous who does not want to be riding through beautiful scenery?
Any MMO without fast travel is too huge. I dont like wasting time running back and forth 1000 times over the exact same path.
What I dont understand, is why would it even bother you to have fast travel or not? You can just opt not to use it? LOL everyone uses it, its moronic not too. I have never ever ever met a single person that said I am not going to fast travel and will opt to run from x to y because I like it.
Do you also opt out of mounts too? Whats the difference? Why not stick your char into a slow forced walk option, as many games offer that too. Maximize your fun right? Yeah somehow if these were so fun you would be doing it, but I know you are not. Nobody does, unless they are joking around.
Have you every played a "tinyMMO"? I had a mount in one and it was hardly worth it, if you are taking seconds on a mount to move between objectives whats the point? I think they had fast travel too!
The old "you don't have to use it if you don't want to" argument. Come on. "You don't have to" do PvP, PvE, P2P, etc, etc, etc. That's not a reason it is an excuse.
Sit back in the saddle, enjoy the ride, the journey is better than the destination, which is after all end game.
I have never ever ever met a single person that said I am not going to fast travel and will opt to run from x to y because I like it.
I'm fairly certain there are many people who find it enjoyable.
I for one.
I am currently doing a skyrim run through with the survival mod installed and it eliminates fast travel with the exception of the carts. So, if I want to fast travel I need to see if it's better to just run to my destination or get myself to a city with a cart.
For the people who don't use fast travel or use it minimally, there is an axis of enjoyment that includes being in the world itself, running into encounters, etc. In the case of the survival mod I sometimes have to be quick to get to a town or else my character can die of extreme weather exposure.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
What I dont understand, is why would it even bother you to have fast travel or not? You can just opt not to use it? LOL everyone uses it, its moronic not too. I have never ever ever met a single person that said I am not going to fast travel and will opt to run from x to y because I like it.
Do you also opt out of mounts too? Whats the difference? Why not stick your char into a slow forced walk option, as many games offer that too. Maximize your fun right? Yeah somehow if these were so fun you would be doing it, but I know you are not. Nobody does, unless they are joking around.
In ESO I generally use fast travel to get to the general region I am currently adventuring in. Once there I typically don't use fast travel or a mount to move about within that area, especially when I first start clearing it as the map is dotted with things that need be done or found. It would be like starting a car to drive from one side of the street to the other, rather pointless in comparison to simply walking that distance.
It isn't until the end when I'm cleaning up the last few remaining things somehow skipped over that I'm likely to use fast travel within a region or use a mount to hasten the process as those stragglers will possibly be quite distant from each other.
I do occasionally walk slowly when the situation warrants it, such as when my character is interacting with nobility and running about would be clearly inappropriate conduct. That's more of a role-playing thing though. During regular play, slow movement would be due to crouching into stealth to either be harder to detect or more easily spot traps.
You aren't in a place to speak on what everyone or nobody does. Your assumptions of such are nothing more than that.
I do occasionally walk slowly when the situation warrants it, such as when my character is interacting with nobility and running about would be clearly inappropriate conduct. That's more of a role-playing thing though.
I do the same thing. If it seems weird to be running I will always walk it.
An extreme example, and again this is in Skyrim, I decided to try the marriage system and married Sylgia who was located in Shor's Stone on the far right of the map. My house was in Solitude.
It seemed weird to "marry" someone and then say "cya in solitude" and then go about my business so I escorted the npc from Shor's Stone to Solitude walking.
Because of that I was able to protect her from all sorts of monsters and attacks and that felt like it made more sense to me.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Fast Trave is fine as long as it's done in moderation. For me, this means maybe 1 fast travel location per region of the game. This all depends on the size of the map of course, but that's roughly what I think of as a moderate amount.
Games aren't meant to be teleport simulators. When I was playing New World, people complained about needing more teleport poins. The world was already small, much less need more teleport points. More, More , More teleport points. Eventually you get ot the point where you don't need to 'walk' anywhere, teleport to the blacksmith, teleport to the bank, then teleport to the auction house, then teleport to the main boss. Ahhhh, that was fun.
This is a subject that's super dependent on the surrounding mechanics in any given game.
You can point at one game and call travel boring because the game doesn't have anything which engages with the player for the entire duration of traveling.
You can point at another game and say fast travel is bad because there's tons of side quest, exploration, random events, or other emergent elements you completely miss out on because you accidentally skipped it all.
It seems more like one should assess how fast travel or the lack of it impacts specific games and their included systems, and whether or not the game mechanics suitably fit together or not.
As is, the pretense of having fast travel or not as a mechanic is extrapolating it into a mechanic sitting in a vacuum and applying a blanket argument to it's value. That's never going to produce an accurate, nor correct, result.
A better line of conversation to be had would be questioning what mechanics work together well to make travel in games more engaging, and what issues appear most commonly with the implementation in MMOs.
EDIT: This is tangentially related to an old complaint of mine about most quests and activities in MMOs being quite static. "Go here and do X then go here and do Y." limits the scope of what you're doing to a very a-to-b style of play. It requires additional things to make the play more randomized and give the potential for unexpected/novel experiences.
Some games do that with radiant events, some other games do that with exploration. A lot of MMOs are bad about doing either of those.
I personally think they should be doing that with the primary tasks in games themselves. Don't create static spawn nodes in an environment with fixed quest locations and the like. Create a context in which pretty much mandates exploration, and make sure to support that exploration with the proper tools and surrounding mechanics.
Like get a quest and you only know the general area it's in at first. Then go to that region and just by virtue of doing things in that area it'll seed you hints that helps narrow down your target objective until you reach it.
When you split travel, exploration, etc into separate mechanics that don't really interact with other game systems, it harms the overall game experience. That's part of what leads to "slow travel is bad" as an idea, because mechanics that operate in isolation fail to engage users. If your systems only operate as pockets of user experiences, then yeah fast travel becomes necessary since you now have to skip about to reach the "content".
Just more overall consciousness of game mechanics and how they work with each other is necessary.
What I dont understand, is why would it even bother you to have fast travel or not? You can just opt not to use it? LOL everyone uses it, its moronic not too. I have never ever ever met a single person that said I am not going to fast travel and will opt to run from x to y because I like it.
Do you also opt out of mounts too? Whats the difference? Why not stick your char into a slow forced walk option, as many games offer that too. Maximize your fun right? Yeah somehow if these were so fun you would be doing it, but I know you are not. Nobody does, unless they are joking around.
In ESO I generally use fast travel to get to the general region I am currently adventuring in. Once there I typically don't use fast travel or a mount to move about within that area, especially when I first start clearing it as the map is dotted with things that need be done or found. It would be like starting a car to drive from one side of the street to the other, rather pointless in comparison to simply walking that distance.
It isn't until the end when I'm cleaning up the last few remaining things somehow skipped over that I'm likely to use fast travel within a region or use a mount to hasten the process as those stragglers will possibly be quite distant from each other.
I do occasionally walk slowly when the situation warrants it, such as when my character is interacting with nobility and running about would be clearly inappropriate conduct. That's more of a role-playing thing though. During regular play, slow movement would be due to crouching into stealth to either be harder to detect or more easily spot traps.
You aren't in a place to speak on what everyone or nobody does. Your assumptions of such are nothing more than that.
LOL you just described what pretty much everyone does. You dont fast travel if you are actually playing. The entire point of fast travel is to get you to where you need to be, so then you can play the game. You using fast travel to get back to town when you are done, so you dont have to waste your time running for NO REASON AT ALL other than to just get back to town.
Taking a car back and forth across the street, really? That would be opposite of fast travel. People advocating for fast travel want to eliminate impediments to playing the game. They are not trying to add in some extra layers of wasteful time. Wasting peoples time is the main reason people want fast travel in the first place.
Seriously you think people advocating for fast travel are trying to eliminate crouching or picking flowers, or mining ??? Get a clue, you are out to lunch seriously.
Your entire post proves my point actually. People that say they dont want fast travel actually do want it, and use it as a convenience tool.
I have never ever ever met a single person that said I am not going to fast travel and will opt to run from x to y because I like it.
I'm fairly certain there are many people who find it enjoyable.
I for one.
I am currently doing a skyrim run through with the survival mod installed and it eliminates fast travel with the exception of the carts. So, if I want to fast travel I need to see if it's better to just run to my destination or get myself to a city with a cart.
For the people who don't use fast travel or use it minimally, there is an axis of enjoyment that includes being in the world itself, running into encounters, etc. In the case of the survival mod I sometimes have to be quick to get to a town or else my character can die of extreme weather exposure.
You are the only one so far that responded to not wanting fast travel to actually make a coherent point for it.
However, whether you use a mod or not, it wont even matter, because you can just not use fast travel, I am confused. Why do you care either way. Why do you have to force your preference on others, when you can just easily opt out and still play the game the way you want too?
I do occasionally walk slowly when the situation warrants it, such as when my character is interacting with nobility and running about would be clearly inappropriate conduct. That's more of a role-playing thing though.
I do the same thing. If it seems weird to be running I will always walk it.
An extreme example, and again this is in Skyrim, I decided to try the marriage system and married Sylgia who was located in Shor's Stone on the far right of the map. My house was in Solitude.
It seemed weird to "marry" someone and then say "cya in solitude" and then go about my business so I escorted the npc from Shor's Stone to Solitude walking.
Because of that I was able to protect her from all sorts of monsters and attacks and that felt like it made more sense to me.
I think you missed the point what I was saying about slow walking, was not doing it occassionally but if you truely like not traveling fast at all. Why not force yourself to be at super slow speed ALWAYS. This is what you want to force on others, to move at your slow speed you find fun.
I think this entire arguement is equivalent to people saying they want text to be forced onto people as a super slow rolling text, where you cant jump ahead if you are a fast reader, you have to wait for the text to scroll for the slowest reader pace.
What I have read so far, is some really selfish people that want the game custom to them and forced on to others at their pace. It sounds like they dont want to be at others pace whether that is slower or faster. Just like this marriage example, you are doing this at your convenience but wouldnt do it 24/7. Obviously because its not fun to be in superslow mode all the time.
Being forced to move and travel at someone elses superslow mode pace is not fun, its just boring.
Watch Black desert online. Most streamers on twitch spend 70% of their time walking to the destination ingame.
Some even play hearthstone while their toon is riding horse. some not even on the computer.
No fast travel is a waste of time, anti insta fun and boring.
its fun when u want to explore the world for the 1st time. watching the the area. but its very boring when u repeat the same area 1000 times.
I think every mmorpg should have fast travel.
I absolutely disagree 100%
The ONLY type of fast travel that I wouldn't mind seeing again because it was done right is similar to that of Everquests Druid and Wizard portals. Put the game back on the players and the community. These MMO's have been moving further and further away from a community style game to an anti-social game and its killing the genre as a whole.
Allowing other forms of fast travel absolutely kills the sense that there's a game world you're in. Oh, and while you're at it, remove flying mounts as well. Ground mounts makes the world feel large
I like stylized fast travel, like put a rail system in the game, or whatever makes sense, then give players their own tools like mounts to cover the gaps.
I dont hate insta travel via clicking the map, but i think the more immersive version makes for a more comfy world. A bit of downtime is good.
I dislike the classic wow, or oldschool everquest style of travel...maybe ok for the first zone of a mmorpg making you run slowly everywhere.
Comments
They will come up with anything to pass time other than real content that people like doing. If they could convince people that watching paint dry was fun, then they would stick that in also.
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
It's more the amount of teleports in comparison to world size and their locations.
No one wants to run for 20 minutes, but at the same time reaching each point on the map within 2 minutes is also bad.
You should even go that far to have the distance between port and location different depending on the location type (raid, dungeon, hidden vendor, skill trainer, quest hub ...)
1997 Meridian 59 'til 2019 ESO
Waiting for Camelot Unchained & Pantheon
So with all that teleporting the world was extremely immersive. There was plenty of exploration etc...
There are plenty of games that allow portals all over. I dont see how this is a problem at all. If you dont like portals you can always just take the long way and run?
Whats funny is all the whiners saying they dont want portals, will use every single portal in any game that has one. LOL
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/What I dont understand, is why would it even bother you to have fast travel or not? You can just opt not to use it? LOL everyone uses it, its moronic not too. I have never ever ever met a single person that said I am not going to fast travel and will opt to run from x to y because I like it.
Do you also opt out of mounts too? Whats the difference? Why not stick your char into a slow forced walk option, as many games offer that too. Maximize your fun right? Yeah somehow if these were so fun you would be doing it, but I know you are not. Nobody does, unless they are joking around.
The old "you don't have to use it if you don't want to" argument. Come on. "You don't have to" do PvP, PvE, P2P, etc, etc, etc. That's not a reason it is an excuse.
Sit back in the saddle, enjoy the ride, the journey is better than the destination, which is after all end game.
I for one.
I am currently doing a skyrim run through with the survival mod installed and it eliminates fast travel with the exception of the carts. So, if I want to fast travel I need to see if it's better to just run to my destination or get myself to a city with a cart.
For the people who don't use fast travel or use it minimally, there is an axis of enjoyment that includes being in the world itself, running into encounters, etc. In the case of the survival mod I sometimes have to be quick to get to a town or else my character can die of extreme weather exposure.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
In ESO I generally use fast travel to get to the general region I am currently adventuring in. Once there I typically don't use fast travel or a mount to move about within that area, especially when I first start clearing it as the map is dotted with things that need be done or found. It would be like starting a car to drive from one side of the street to the other, rather pointless in comparison to simply walking that distance.
It isn't until the end when I'm cleaning up the last few remaining things somehow skipped over that I'm likely to use fast travel within a region or use a mount to hasten the process as those stragglers will possibly be quite distant from each other.
I do occasionally walk slowly when the situation warrants it, such as when my character is interacting with nobility and running about would be clearly inappropriate conduct. That's more of a role-playing thing though. During regular play, slow movement would be due to crouching into stealth to either be harder to detect or more easily spot traps.
You aren't in a place to speak on what everyone or nobody does. Your assumptions of such are nothing more than that.
An extreme example, and again this is in Skyrim, I decided to try the marriage system and married Sylgia who was located in Shor's Stone on the far right of the map. My house was in Solitude.
It seemed weird to "marry" someone and then say "cya in solitude" and then go about my business so I escorted the npc from Shor's Stone to Solitude walking.
Because of that I was able to protect her from all sorts of monsters and attacks and that felt like it made more sense to me.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Games aren't meant to be teleport simulators. When I was playing New World, people complained about needing more teleport poins. The world was already small, much less need more teleport points. More, More , More teleport points. Eventually you get ot the point where you don't need to 'walk' anywhere, teleport to the blacksmith, teleport to the bank, then teleport to the auction house, then teleport to the main boss. Ahhhh, that was fun.
You can point at one game and call travel boring because the game doesn't have anything which engages with the player for the entire duration of traveling.
You can point at another game and say fast travel is bad because there's tons of side quest, exploration, random events, or other emergent elements you completely miss out on because you accidentally skipped it all.
It seems more like one should assess how fast travel or the lack of it impacts specific games and their included systems, and whether or not the game mechanics suitably fit together or not.
As is, the pretense of having fast travel or not as a mechanic is extrapolating it into a mechanic sitting in a vacuum and applying a blanket argument to it's value. That's never going to produce an accurate, nor correct, result.
A better line of conversation to be had would be questioning what mechanics work together well to make travel in games more engaging, and what issues appear most commonly with the implementation in MMOs.
EDIT: This is tangentially related to an old complaint of mine about most quests and activities in MMOs being quite static. "Go here and do X then go here and do Y." limits the scope of what you're doing to a very a-to-b style of play. It requires additional things to make the play more randomized and give the potential for unexpected/novel experiences.
Some games do that with radiant events, some other games do that with exploration. A lot of MMOs are bad about doing either of those.
I personally think they should be doing that with the primary tasks in games themselves. Don't create static spawn nodes in an environment with fixed quest locations and the like. Create a context in which pretty much mandates exploration, and make sure to support that exploration with the proper tools and surrounding mechanics.
Like get a quest and you only know the general area it's in at first. Then go to that region and just by virtue of doing things in that area it'll seed you hints that helps narrow down your target objective until you reach it.
When you split travel, exploration, etc into separate mechanics that don't really interact with other game systems, it harms the overall game experience. That's part of what leads to "slow travel is bad" as an idea, because mechanics that operate in isolation fail to engage users. If your systems only operate as pockets of user experiences, then yeah fast travel becomes necessary since you now have to skip about to reach the "content".
Just more overall consciousness of game mechanics and how they work with each other is necessary.
Taking a car back and forth across the street, really? That would be opposite of fast travel. People advocating for fast travel want to eliminate impediments to playing the game. They are not trying to add in some extra layers of wasteful time. Wasting peoples time is the main reason people want fast travel in the first place.
Seriously you think people advocating for fast travel are trying to eliminate crouching or picking flowers, or mining ??? Get a clue, you are out to lunch seriously.
Your entire post proves my point actually. People that say they dont want fast travel actually do want it, and use it as a convenience tool.
However, whether you use a mod or not, it wont even matter, because you can just not use fast travel, I am confused. Why do you care either way. Why do you have to force your preference on others, when you can just easily opt out and still play the game the way you want too?
I think this entire arguement is equivalent to people saying they want text to be forced onto people as a super slow rolling text, where you cant jump ahead if you are a fast reader, you have to wait for the text to scroll for the slowest reader pace.
What I have read so far, is some really selfish people that want the game custom to them and forced on to others at their pace. It sounds like they dont want to be at others pace whether that is slower or faster. Just like this marriage example, you are doing this at your convenience but wouldnt do it 24/7. Obviously because its not fun to be in superslow mode all the time.
Being forced to move and travel at someone elses superslow mode pace is not fun, its just boring.
mmos got anti-social because of discord.
I dont hate insta travel via clicking the map, but i think the more immersive version makes for a more comfy world. A bit of downtime is good.
I dislike the classic wow, or oldschool everquest style of travel...maybe ok for the first zone of a mmorpg making you run slowly everywhere.