Not necessarily secrecy, but their is valid rationale on the impact of long development cycles on consumer confidence as well as interest, which gives reason for devs to avoid announcing projects "too early".
A short point would be, it's hard to stay hyped for anything after several years of waiting.
Unless it's Half Life 3.
Why does one would need to be in "perpetually hyped" state about a game instead of just being happy that a game you are interested is being developed in the first place?
Independently of you being aware that it exists or not. The actual time you've waited for the game is exactly the same.
Because gamers do not allow themselves to be happy, that would feel quite unnatural to us all.
Do these projects even want to attract the interest of the general public? As far as I know, Pantheon and Camelot Unchained (I'm certain about CU, actually) are mainly interested in capturing those who are still interested in the game a decade later, which is mainly the backers.
Problem being, some of those backers may be dead by the time one of those games gets released...
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Do these projects even want to attract the interest of the general public? As far as I know, Pantheon and Camelot Unchained (I'm certain about CU, actually) are mainly interested in capturing those who are still interested in the game a decade later, which is mainly the backers.
Problem being, some of those backers may be dead by the time one of those games gets released...
Well that and the fact that every single one of them either straight up lied or is off by a magnitude of years on their "estimated" delivery date. They basically all lied about funding required on kickstarter as well and used it as a first round of funding and there was no way any of them would have made anything with those initial kickstarter funds.
They pretty much ruined it for any other kcikstarters. I know there is no way I'll fund anything again after seeing concept art and no release insight out of these companies around a decade later.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Do these projects even want to attract the interest of the general public?
Why do you think they dont want anyone other than the backers? They already have the backers money. When they release the game I am pretty sure they actually want to make money. The backer money is spent, profit will come for new players. They need more than just sub money to make a profit.
I meant that right now they don't want to approach anyone outside the circle who has not yet contributed to the project. That's intentional, because things are moving slowly. And more new backers means new promises and new commitments. Something that CSE, for example, can't afford at all right now with Camelot Unchained. Especially not from a PR point of view. That they want to attract new people later, when there is more substance, is obvious in my opinion. After all, they want to make profit.
Speaking of profit: The advantage of indie developers is that they are not obliged to any shareholders, so they don't necessarily have to maximize their profit.
Do these projects even want to attract the interest of the general public?
Why do you think they dont want anyone other than the backers? They already have the backers money. When they release the game I am pretty sure they actually want to make money. The backer money is spent, profit will come for new players. They need more than just sub money to make a profit.
I meant that right now they don't want to approach anyone outside the circle who has not yet contributed to the project. That's intentional, because things are moving slowly. And more new backers means new promises and new commitments. Something that CSE, for example, can't afford at all right now with Camelot Unchained. Especially not from a PR point of view. That they want to attract new people later, when there is more substance, is obvious in my opinion. After all, they want to make profit.
Speaking of profit: The advantage of indie developers is that they are not obliged to any shareholders, so they don't necessarily have to maximize their profit.
You are swapping shareholders for backers, I think a studio will feel their feet are being held to a fire whichever they are beholden to, just in different ways. But you can survive the backers being unhappy, if the shareholders are unhappy you have a game that's not making money on your hands and where is that going?
Do these projects even want to attract the interest of the general public? As far as I know, Pantheon and Camelot Unchained (I'm certain about CU, actually) are mainly interested in capturing those who are still interested in the game a decade later, which is mainly the backers.
Problem being, some of those backers may be dead by the time one of those games gets released...
Good things come to those who wait. And yes, a decade of development time is really long. But projects like Pantheon or CU have their own hurdles. Pantheon has long lacked money and technology (though Unity is well-suited for rapid prototyping), and CU's lack of staff and purpose-built technology led to significant delays.
You are swapping shareholders for backers, I think a studio will feel their feet are being held to a fire whichever they are beholden to, just in different ways. But you can survive the backers being unhappy, if the shareholders are unhappy you have a game that's not making money on your hands and where is that going?
You're absolutely right ... and in my opinion, this is an issue that needs to be considered more strongly with indie developers. A studio that is accountable to shareholders doesn't have to deal with a lot of "small voices". On the other hand, shareholders don't care what the studio develops: The product needs to make money. And a lot of it. Having fun ingame is not a priority.
Do these projects even want to attract the interest of the general public? As far as I know, Pantheon and Camelot Unchained (I'm certain about CU, actually) are mainly interested in capturing those who are still interested in the game a decade later, which is mainly the backers.
Problem being, some of those backers may be dead by the time one of those games gets released...
Good things come to those who wait. And yes, a decade of development time is really long. But projects like Pantheon or CU have their own hurdles. Pantheon has long lacked money and technology (though Unity is well-suited for rapid prototyping), and CU's lack of staff and purpose-built technology led to significant delays.
Just for some perspective here's an acrticle on the top 10 longest development times in video game history. It starts at Spore in 10th place with 8 years.
I honestly would not be surprised if some of these overtook Duke Nukem Forever or Beyond Good and Evil 2 and set a new Guinness world record for longest video game development.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Do these projects even want to attract the interest of the general public? As far as I know, Pantheon and Camelot Unchained (I'm certain about CU, actually) are mainly interested in capturing those who are still interested in the game a decade later, which is mainly the backers.
Problem being, some of those backers may be dead by the time one of those games gets released...
Good things come to those who wait. And yes, a decade of development time is really long. But projects like Pantheon or CU have their own hurdles. Pantheon has long lacked money and technology (though Unity is well-suited for rapid prototyping), and CU's lack of staff and purpose-built technology led to significant delays.
Ooohh, but what a lame excuse ! The purpose of their respective kickstarters was to provide what you've just listed here ! And they got quite a bit of money...
So... where is that money gone ?
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
The money from the crowdfunding was used for the project (by the way, I'm only talking about Camelot Unchained because I don't know enough about other projects). None of the developers bought a Ferrari with that money.
If in your view it's too much for too little, then that's your personal opinion. Not a fact.
Do these projects even want to attract the interest of the general public? As far as I know, Pantheon and Camelot Unchained (I'm certain about CU, actually) are mainly interested in capturing those who are still interested in the game a decade later, which is mainly the backers.
Problem being, some of those backers may be dead by the time one of those games gets released...
Good things come to those who wait. And yes, a decade of development time is really long. But projects like Pantheon or CU have their own hurdles. Pantheon has long lacked money and technology (though Unity is well-suited for rapid prototyping), and CU's lack of staff and purpose-built technology led to significant delays.
Ooohh, but what a lame excuse ! The purpose of their respective kickstarters was to provide what you've just listed here ! And they got quite a bit of money...
So... where is that money gone ?
Well, technically Pantheon failed it's kickstarter and people left the team. They then had to ask people to donate and remake the team and start over.
It seems it's been a very bumpy ride.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Do these projects even want to attract the interest of the general public? As far as I know, Pantheon and Camelot Unchained (I'm certain about CU, actually) are mainly interested in capturing those who are still interested in the game a decade later, which is mainly the backers.
Problem being, some of those backers may be dead by the time one of those games gets released...
Good things come to those who wait. And yes, a decade of development time is really long. But projects like Pantheon or CU have their own hurdles. Pantheon has long lacked money and technology (though Unity is well-suited for rapid prototyping), and CU's lack of staff and purpose-built technology led to significant delays.
Ooohh, but what a lame excuse ! The purpose of their respective kickstarters was to provide what you've just listed here ! And they got quite a bit of money...
So... where is that money gone ?
Well, technically Pantheon failed it's kickstarter and people left the team. They then had to ask people to donate and remake the team and start over.
It seems it's been a very bumpy ride.
To make it short: that game just won't work.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Not necessarily secrecy, but their is valid rationale on the impact of long development cycles on consumer confidence as well as interest, which gives reason for devs to avoid announcing projects "too early".
A short point would be, it's hard to stay hyped for anything after several years of waiting.
Unless it's Half Life 3.
Why does one would need to be in "perpetually hyped" state about a game instead of just being happy that a game you are interested is being developed in the first place?
Independently of you being aware that it exists or not. The actual time you've waited for the game is exactly the same.
Because gamers do not allow themselves to be happy, that would feel quite unnatural to us all.
More that it just ages. By the time the game launches, it's old news and usually people have moved on to something else.
Not necessarily secrecy, but their is valid rationale on the impact of long development cycles on consumer confidence as well as interest, which gives reason for devs to avoid announcing projects "too early".
A short point would be, it's hard to stay hyped for anything after several years of waiting.
Unless it's Half Life 3.
Why does one would need to be in "perpetually hyped" state about a game instead of just being happy that a game you are interested is being developed in the first place?
Independently of you being aware that it exists or not. The actual time you've waited for the game is exactly the same.
Because gamers do not allow themselves to be happy, that would feel quite unnatural to us all.
More that it just ages. By the time the game launches, it's old news and usually people have moved on to something else.
In this age of gaming with "Next Fests" and so on, it is obvious that there is always going to be a new way of ramping up the hype. It is becoming a surprise to me that young gamers even last in their current game as long as they do.
What is the game we should all be playing this month (and likely for no more than a month), are you missing out!?
You are swapping shareholders for backers, I think a studio will feel their feet are being held to a fire whichever they are beholden to, just in different ways. But you can survive the backers being unhappy, if the shareholders are unhappy you have a game that's not making money on your hands and where is that going?
You're absolutely right ... and in my opinion, this is an issue that needs to be considered more strongly with indie developers. A studio that is accountable to shareholders doesn't have to deal with a lot of "small voices". On the other hand, shareholders don't care what the studio develops: The product needs to make money. And a lot of it. Having fun ingame is not a priority.
The sort of problems shareholders create is bringing out a game too early, but you obviously don't need them to do that. Dealing with so many small voices is a distraction anyone creating anything could do without. We have seen in every CF MMO how crowd funders feeling invested turns into a sense of entitlement for many fans.
But I say this in no way to excuse the perennial delays these MMOs have faced, they should have been upfront with how long it was all going to take and that no schedule could be guaranteed.
Do these projects even want to attract the interest of the general public?
Why do you think they dont want anyone other than the backers? They already have the backers money. When they release the game I am pretty sure they actually want to make money. The backer money is spent, profit will come for new players. They need more than just sub money to make a profit.
I meant that right now they don't want to approach anyone outside the circle who has not yet contributed to the project. That's intentional, because things are moving slowly. And more new backers means new promises and new commitments. Something that CSE, for example, can't afford at all right now with Camelot Unchained. Especially not from a PR point of view. That they want to attract new people later, when there is more substance, is obvious in my opinion. After all, they want to make profit.
Speaking of profit: The advantage of indie developers is that they are not obliged to any shareholders, so they don't necessarily have to maximize their profit.
Except of course Pantheon, CU, and even Star Citizen have taken investor money whose interests usually are along the lines of shareholders but with more clout to get the dev team to make more money, sooner rather than later.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Oh man. I had completely forgotten Camelot unchained was a thing. I’ll probably get around to playing it some time after greedmonger and chronicles of Elyria
Except of course Pantheon, CU, and even Star Citizen have taken investor money whose interests usually are along the lines of shareholders but with more clout to get the dev team to make more money, sooner rather than later.
I don't see CU or Pantheon doing much advertising of their pledges. Do you know what I don't?
I meant that right now they don't want to approach anyone outside the circle who has not yet contributed to the project. That's intentional, because things are moving slowly. And more new backers means new promises and new commitments.
No way I believe this, more likely they CANT get any more money because they look like a scam. If somehow they thought they could run a kickstarter right now and get $20mil they would 100% do that without a question. Thinking they dont want more money is intentional is completely a joke.
More likely they are just pretending to not want money so that people like you think they are somehow secure then buy into a larger pledge when the opportunity opens up. Thats in the scam lesson book 101.
I have seen this so many times just before a game is about to die, where they said they dont care if someone buys the pledge or not only to roll out multiple fundraisers and shut down after that.
Isnt it CU where people are supposedly still waiting for thier refunds?
Speaking of profit: The advantage of indie developers is that they are not obliged to any shareholders, so they don't necessarily have to maximize their profit.
Except of course Pantheon, CU, and even Star Citizen have taken investor money whose interests usually are along the lines of shareholders but with more clout to get the dev team to make more money, sooner rather than later.
I don't see CU or Pantheon doing much advertising of their pledges. Do you know what I don't?
I was replying to the last paragraph of the post which you omitted. Makes more sense with it added back in.
I won't disagree CU has not asked for new pledges recently, heck they barely communicate much these days.
They did however try to sell their "betrayal" game Ragnarok: Final Stand on early access Steam release, but that certainly didn't turn out very well.
Pantheon team often mentions their pledge page during their live streams for anyone who like what they see and want to support the project.
Been a definite effort on their part to build a sense of FOMO in their $500 level backers to try and get them to antee up and upgrade their packages to at least the $750 tier so they can be part of the monthly pre-alpha testing announced for 2023.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I still believe mythic entertainment built a crypto warehouse mining facility with the beta pledge money in order to come up with enough cash to make another daoc. I think there still trying to mine enough money to pay people a 6k salary to give you an unbalanced paradise. I really am looking forward to the game though. The 43 million he made selling daoc to ea just wasn't enough money to make a new game.
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
No way I believe this, more likely they CANT get any more money because they look like a scam. If somehow they thought they could run a kickstarter right now and get $20mil they would 100% do that without a question. Thinking they dont want more money is intentional is completely a joke.
I didn't say they don't want any money at all. They just don't want to make money selling pledges.
More likely they are just pretending to not want money so that people like you think they are somehow secure then buy into a larger pledge when the opportunity opens up. Thats in the scam lesson book 101.
The thought of them lying in wait for 10 years and then suddenly making me a "super offer impossible to resist" doesn't sound very likely to me. Doesn't seem like it's a good scam textbook.
Comments
Problem being, some of those backers may be dead by the time one of those games gets released...
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
They pretty much ruined it for any other kcikstarters. I know there is no way I'll fund anything again after seeing concept art and no release insight out of these companies around a decade later.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Speaking of profit: The advantage of indie developers is that they are not obliged to any shareholders, so they don't necessarily have to maximize their profit.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/https://screenrant.com/longest-development-times-video-games/#spore---8-years
I honestly would not be surprised if some of these overtook Duke Nukem Forever or Beyond Good and Evil 2 and set a new Guinness world record for longest video game development.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Ooohh, but what a lame excuse !
The purpose of their respective kickstarters was to provide what you've just listed here !
And they got quite a bit of money...
So... where is that money gone ?
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
If in your view it's too much for too little, then that's your personal opinion. Not a fact.
It seems it's been a very bumpy ride.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
To make it short: that game just won't work.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
What is the game we should all be playing this month (and likely for no more than a month), are you missing out!?
But I say this in no way to excuse the perennial delays these MMOs have faced, they should have been upfront with how long it was all going to take and that no schedule could be guaranteed.
I think they zero in on activity, but they also check topics and if a that means a thread gets necroed so be it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
No way I believe this, more likely they CANT get any more money because they look like a scam. If somehow they thought they could run a kickstarter right now and get $20mil they would 100% do that without a question. Thinking they dont want more money is intentional is completely a joke.
More likely they are just pretending to not want money so that people like you think they are somehow secure then buy into a larger pledge when the opportunity opens up. Thats in the scam lesson book 101.
I have seen this so many times just before a game is about to die, where they said they dont care if someone buys the pledge or not only to roll out multiple fundraisers and shut down after that.
Isnt it CU where people are supposedly still waiting for thier refunds?
I won't disagree CU has not asked for new pledges recently, heck they barely communicate much these days.
They did however try to sell their "betrayal" game Ragnarok: Final Stand on early access Steam release, but that certainly didn't turn out very well.
Pantheon team often mentions their pledge page during their live streams for anyone who like what they see and want to support the project.
Been a definite effort on their part to build a sense of FOMO in their $500 level backers to try and get them to antee up and upgrade their packages to at least the $750 tier so they can be part of the monthly pre-alpha testing announced for 2023.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
The thought of them lying in wait for 10 years and then suddenly making me a "super offer impossible to resist" doesn't sound very likely to me. Doesn't seem like it's a good scam textbook.