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Why I won't Purchase Another MMORPG.

13

Comments

  • OG_SolareusOG_Solareus Member RarePosts: 1,041
    mekhere said:
    mekhere said:
    I actually miss sub games. You had to earn your stats. not buy them.

    name one game you buy stats ..
    every game with a microtransaction store. That list would be to long.

    I've played a lot, and i mean a lot of games and the only game I can think of with stats on an item mall is Black Desert costumes.
  • mekheremekhere Member UncommonPosts: 273
    mekhere said:
    mekhere said:
    I actually miss sub games. You had to earn your stats. not buy them.

    name one game you buy stats ..
    every game with a microtransaction store. That list would be to long.

    I've played a lot, and i mean a lot of games and the only game I can think of with stats on an item mall is Black Desert costumes.
    15 Best Pay-To-Win Games in 2023 (fictionhorizon.com)
    Everquest 2 was one of the first.
    WoW at one point in its history. 
    Battlefield.
    Call of Duty
    etc...ect...
    This user is a registered flex offender. 
    Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
    Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.  
    Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end. 

  • OG_SolareusOG_Solareus Member RarePosts: 1,041
    mekhere said:
    mekhere said:
    mekhere said:
    I actually miss sub games. You had to earn your stats. not buy them.

    name one game you buy stats ..
    every game with a microtransaction store. That list would be to long.

    I've played a lot, and i mean a lot of games and the only game I can think of with stats on an item mall is Black Desert costumes.
    15 Best Pay-To-Win Games in 2023 (fictionhorizon.com)
    Everquest 2 was one of the first.
    WoW at one point in its history. 
    Battlefield.
    Call of Duty
    etc...ect...

    what item, rambling titles with no item is not evidence.
  • mekheremekhere Member UncommonPosts: 273
    mekhere said:
    mekhere said:
    mekhere said:
    I actually miss sub games. You had to earn your stats. not buy them.

    name one game you buy stats ..
    every game with a microtransaction store. That list would be to long.

    I've played a lot, and i mean a lot of games and the only game I can think of with stats on an item mall is Black Desert costumes.
    15 Best Pay-To-Win Games in 2023 (fictionhorizon.com)
    Everquest 2 was one of the first.
    WoW at one point in its history. 
    Battlefield.
    Call of Duty
    etc...ect...

    what item, rambling titles with no item is not evidence.
    I am not buying any of those games to prove anything to you. Trust my experience or don't, but there are plenty pay to win games out there. Hell, there's a genre on most websites for it. For you to say there is only one game that you are aware of when there is a pay to win genre out there is pretty naive of you in the first place. 
    This user is a registered flex offender. 
    Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
    Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.  
    Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end. 

  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member RarePosts: 1,139
    edited February 2023
    Even Diablo 3 in China you could straight up buy set gear off an integrated cash shop. Pretty certain many would call that pay to win.

    Different people are exposed to different kinds of markets. It quickly just becomes argument of anecdote dogpiled by personal threshold of what makes a title pay to win.
    OG_Solareus
  • OG_SolareusOG_Solareus Member RarePosts: 1,041
    mekhere said:
    mekhere said:
    mekhere said:
    mekhere said:
    I actually miss sub games. You had to earn your stats. not buy them.

    name one game you buy stats ..
    every game with a microtransaction store. That list would be to long.

    I've played a lot, and i mean a lot of games and the only game I can think of with stats on an item mall is Black Desert costumes.
    15 Best Pay-To-Win Games in 2023 (fictionhorizon.com)
    Everquest 2 was one of the first.
    WoW at one point in its history. 
    Battlefield.
    Call of Duty
    etc...ect...

    what item, rambling titles with no item is not evidence.
    I am not buying any of those games to prove anything to you. Trust my experience or don't, but there are plenty pay to win games out there. Hell, there's a genre on most websites for it. For you to say there is only one game that you are aware of when there is a pay to win genre out there is pretty naive of you in the first place. 

    but you said free to play  !!! :D
  • Morgenes83Morgenes83 Member UncommonPosts: 286
    It took you 5k to realize?

    eoloe

    1997 Meridian 59 'til 2019 ESO 

    Waiting for Camelot Unchained & Pantheon

  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,832
    mekhere said:
    mekhere said:
    I actually miss sub games. You had to earn your stats. not buy them.

    name one game you buy stats ..
    every game with a microtransaction store. That list would be to long.

    I've played a lot, and i mean a lot of games and the only game I can think of with stats on an item mall is Black Desert costumes.

    LotRO sold stats through their store. Don't know if they still do, but certainly for the first few years of F2P they did.

    They were called tomes of empowerment, and if you got all of them you got +50 to every primary stat. At the time the stat cap was 300 iirc, so +50 was a big deal.



    They were supposed to drop in game, but of course the drop rate was so low as to be negligible. Luckily, with ur monthly free points from a sub it didn't take too long to get them all, I think most of my guild had gotten all of them within 6 months just by using free points in the store.

    OG_Solareus
    Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman

  • OG_SolareusOG_Solareus Member RarePosts: 1,041
    edited February 2023
    wrong thread reeee
    Post edited by OG_Solareus on
  • OG_SolareusOG_Solareus Member RarePosts: 1,041
    mekhere said:
    mekhere said:
    I actually miss sub games. You had to earn your stats. not buy them.

    name one game you buy stats ..
    every game with a microtransaction store. That list would be to long.

    I've played a lot, and i mean a lot of games and the only game I can think of with stats on an item mall is Black Desert costumes.

    LotRO sold stats through their store. Don't know if they still do, but certainly for the first few years of F2P they did.

    They were called tomes of empowerment, and if you got all of them you got +50 to every primary stat. At the time the stat cap was 300 iirc, so +50 was a big deal.



    They were supposed to drop in game, but of course the drop rate was so low as to be negligible. Luckily, with ur monthly free points from a sub it didn't take too long to get them all, I think most of my guild had gotten all of them within 6 months just by using free points in the store.


    LotrO wasn't f2p at launch though. I agree they did sell atrats which I think was to kickstart their micro shop when launching f2p model.
  • AngrakhanAngrakhan Member EpicPosts: 1,750
    I won't say I'll never get into an MMO again, but it won't be until my kids are out of the house. I just don't have the time. For me that's another 7 years minimum. 

    By then Star Citizen might be out! LOL I kid I kid. That's not realistic. 

    Anyway I prefer games with a sub or straight buy to play. FTP just ruins the game because they designed the game to force you into the cash shop. I'm not some freeloader wanting a free game but when you price out the total cost of playing a F2P game versus a sub game you find you spend WAY more on the F2P game to get the same level of service. I just prefer they make everyone equally responsible for paying the bills instead of relying on whales to carry the load. Especially considering most people who are whales can't really afford to be. Rather they're the people who cannot resist their impulsive purchases. I find F2P to be knowingly predatory in nature and of questionable moral character, so I choose not to support it in general.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,976
    Uwakionna said:
    Even Diablo 3 in China you could straight up buy set gear off an integrated cash shop. Pretty certain many would call that pay to win.

    Different people are exposed to different kinds of markets. It quickly just becomes argument of anecdote dogpiled by personal threshold of what makes a title pay to win.

    I remember playing Diablo 2 and many players sold gear off EBAY....I think this strategy in Diablo 3 was just to make sure Blizzard got the money and not the people selling on EBAY....It was one of the main reasons why I quit D2....There were alot of hacks and cheats that made it almos impossible for average players to get any gear off of Diablo drops.
  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member RarePosts: 1,139
    edited February 2023
    Uwakionna said:
    Even Diablo 3 in China you could straight up buy set gear off an integrated cash shop. Pretty certain many would call that pay to win.

    Different people are exposed to different kinds of markets. It quickly just becomes argument of anecdote dogpiled by personal threshold of what makes a title pay to win.

    I remember playing Diablo 2 and many players sold gear off EBAY....I think this strategy in Diablo 3 was just to make sure Blizzard got the money and not the people selling on EBAY....It was one of the main reasons why I quit D2....There were alot of hacks and cheats that made it almos impossible for average players to get any gear off of Diablo drops.
    I don't think that rationale works out too well as a reason.

    It was a design choice that was unique to China for Diablo 3. What we got elsewhere was that attempt at an RMT auction house, with the gear drops that were biased against your chosen character class so you were heavily incentivized to shop/trade over play for personal sets. These along with the always online requirement on unstable server connections were the big complaints at launch which pushed the game to change (which required blizz changing the dev team working on D3 post-launch too).

    Perhaps the RMT auction by itself would have fit the bill of trying to offer a legitimate in game auction to try and limit hacked content, or at least let Blizz profit off it.

    Problem is that a) that wouldn't fix the problem for the consumer for the game balance, and b) the game balance initially was even worse by design to accommodate it.

    Which means for those players who were never impacted by people selling gear because they never played rando public lobbies, the only negative experience they have is when Blizz was the cause of it in the name of RTM/cash shops.
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,385
    "It was a design choice that was unique to China for Diablo 3. What we got elsewhere was that attempt at an RMT auction house, with the gear drops that were biased against your chosen character class so you were heavily incentivized to shop/trade over play for personal sets."


    Heavily biased against your character, how nefarious and scummy.
    Scot
    Garrus Signature
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    madazz said:
    F2P is literally what killed the genre and made monetization go completely insane. 
    Not quite. F2P in itself did nothing. It was simply offered. The broad acceptance of F2P by players is what enabled it to become a dominant form of gaming monetization. If players had instead predominantly rejected F2P it would have been abandoned as non-viable.
    Iselin
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780


    F2P or Die.

    Anyone else been building a list like this ?
    List? That seems a bit intense.

    But whatever, it's your money. And people spend money on what they value.

    There are cheap people who never want to spend money on anything and go out of their way to get something for nothing but "whatever."

    Personally, I think you are looking at sub games "wrong." You are not buying anything. You are paying for a service. Just like when you go to the gym, pay for a movie rental, etc.

    Maybe you'd be less inclined to have a list if you were clear on what you were actually spending money for and what you actually got for that money?
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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    templarga said:
    I just went upstairs and dropped $7.50 on a Vanilla Chai latte from Starbucks. It was very good.

    For double that, I can get easily 40+ hours of entertainment a month. I honestly cannot understand what is to complain about with a sub fee. A sub fee, plus a shop, plus a battlepass. Okay, I get that. But a sub fee alone is super simple and easy and cheap for the entertainment provided.

    Subscription fees are ridiculously cheap considering they have been relatively fixed in price from the earliest of MMORPGs until now. How many other things have been so constrained in price over decades? Not many I expect.

    They are a perceptual issue, not one of their actual cost.
    Sensai
  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 3,017
    templarga said:
    I just went upstairs and dropped $7.50 on a Vanilla Chai latte from Starbucks. It was very good.

    For double that, I can get easily 40+ hours of entertainment a month. I honestly cannot understand what is to complain about with a sub fee. A sub fee, plus a shop, plus a battlepass. Okay, I get that. But a sub fee alone is super simple and easy and cheap for the entertainment provided.

    Subscription fees are ridiculously cheap considering they have been relatively fixed in price from the earliest of MMORPGs until now. How many other things have been so constrained in price over decades? Not many I expect.

    They are a perceptual issue, not one of their actual cost.

    I think the game companies realized that a long time ago. They make more money from "free" to play, through the cash shop. Sub only games don't make enough money now.

    Even ESO, which has a sub, probably makes more money through their shop than from the subs.
    Sovrath

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • DarkhawkeDarkhawke Member UncommonPosts: 212
    edited February 2023
    mekhere said:
    mekhere said:
    I actually miss sub games. You had to earn your stats. not buy them.

    name one game you buy stats ..
    every game with a microtransaction store. That list would be to long.

    I've played a lot, and i mean a lot of games and the only game I can think of with stats on an item mall is Black Desert costumes.

    LotRO sold stats through their store. Don't know if they still do, but certainly for the first few years of F2P they did.

    They were called tomes of empowerment, and if you got all of them you got +50 to every primary stat. At the time the stat cap was 300 iirc, so +50 was a big deal.



    They were supposed to drop in game, but of course the drop rate was so low as to be negligible. Luckily, with ur monthly free points from a sub it didn't take too long to get them all, I think most of my guild had gotten all of them within 6 months just by using free points in the store.

    LOTRO sells Everything thru there store, you can lvl  to 130 , cap stats , cap Virtues and put yourself in T2 raid gear with  swipe and 30 minutes of your time. Buy XP accelerator and be at 140 in a few hours . Max stats Max Virtues Max lvl Max Traceries in LIs in T2 raid gear.        Done 
    Post edited by Darkhawke on
    Scot
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    Darkhawke said:
    mekhere said:
    mekhere said:
    I actually miss sub games. You had to earn your stats. not buy them.

    name one game you buy stats ..
    every game with a microtransaction store. That list would be to long.

    I've played a lot, and i mean a lot of games and the only game I can think of with stats on an item mall is Black Desert costumes.

    LotRO sold stats through their store. Don't know if they still do, but certainly for the first few years of F2P they did.

    They were called tomes of empowerment, and if you got all of them you got +50 to every primary stat. At the time the stat cap was 300 iirc, so +50 was a big deal.



    They were supposed to drop in game, but of course the drop rate was so low as to be negligible. Luckily, with ur monthly free points from a sub it didn't take too long to get them all, I think most of my guild had gotten all of them within 6 months just by using free points in the store.

    LOTRO sells Everything thru there store, you can lvl  to 130 , cap stats , cap Virtues and put yourself in T2 raid gear with  swipe and 30 minutes of your time. Buy XP accelerator and be at 140 in a few hours . Max stats Max Virtues Max lvl Max Traceries in LIs in T2 raid gear.        Done 
    To think the gaming media once called it the Turbine Model cash shop, I guess it is the Warner Bros model cash shop now.
  • OG_SolareusOG_Solareus Member RarePosts: 1,041
    edited February 2023
    I will not deny pay to win exists, but its never interrupted my f2p experience. Though I do like shouting "P2W noobs" when I am defeated in battel. it makes me feel better  :)
    Sovrath
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,976
    What always cracks me up about F2P games is when people say they "are forced" to spend money...No one is forcing a thing...You can play all of them completely free if that is what you want....If you choose to spend money, then that is your choice...Dont blame the game for that....I'd rather have a format where i have a choice (F2P) rather than not have a choice (sub).
    OG_Solareus
  • eoloeeoloe Member RarePosts: 864
    templarga said:
    I just went upstairs and dropped $7.50 on a Vanilla Chai latte from Starbucks. It was very good.

    For double that, I can get easily 40+ hours of entertainment a month. I honestly cannot understand what is to complain about with a sub fee. A sub fee, plus a shop, plus a battlepass. Okay, I get that. But a sub fee alone is super simple and easy and cheap for the entertainment provided.

    Starbuck is a fucking overpriced scam. And don't get me started on pizza price!
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,522
    olepi said:
    templarga said:
    I just went upstairs and dropped $7.50 on a Vanilla Chai latte from Starbucks. It was very good.

    For double that, I can get easily 40+ hours of entertainment a month. I honestly cannot understand what is to complain about with a sub fee. A sub fee, plus a shop, plus a battlepass. Okay, I get that. But a sub fee alone is super simple and easy and cheap for the entertainment provided.

    Subscription fees are ridiculously cheap considering they have been relatively fixed in price from the earliest of MMORPGs until now. How many other things have been so constrained in price over decades? Not many I expect.

    They are a perceptual issue, not one of their actual cost.

    I think the game companies realized that a long time ago. They make more money from "free" to play, through the cash shop. Sub only games don't make enough money now.

    Even ESO, which has a sub, probably makes more money through their shop than from the subs.

    How could they not have so realized and then found their way around it? If the subscription price you can charge is effectively fixed you must continually increasingly find other means of revenue to cover your costs that are not so constrained, while ideally still reaping sufficient profit such that the entire endeavour is worth the bother.
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