Developers are not a finite source you can do both and make this type of game and the one you want too. It isn't like if you made this game and it was successful they will not make the game you are talking about. They can make it through different game companies.
Correction. Developers are a finite number. Humans are finite number, and developers are a subset of humans. I'd go with developers are an indefinite number; in mathematics, an indefinite number is a finite number but the exact value is unknown.
I get what you're saying but I was referring to a pool of talents rather than individuals.
"The Nintendo title was a roaring success, selling more digital copies - five million - in a single month than any other console game in history. Currently, lifetime sales of Animal Crossing: New Horizons sit at 39.38 million units."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Developers are not a finite source you can do both and make this type of game and the one you want too. It isn't like if you made this game and it was successful they will not make the game you are talking about. They can make it through different game companies.
I am not thinking of any specific format. I am simply saying MMO's have been having a ton of trouble finding a playerbase in the last 10 years. Why put unnecessary burdens into the game when you know from the very start the mechanic is already niche.
If you were a building developer and had just made this amazing 1st time development, would you seriously paint all the homes orange? You might find a couple of buyers but regardless of how amazing your development just that one simple thing could tank your entire project. Its absolutely stupid to do that in a market where its struggleing in the first place.
If you want to do niche potentially disasterous mechanics you should do that AFTER you have a history of success. This way if it tanks you still have options and a formula you can go back too.
Generally if you are going to take large risk like that, you do so in a market that has high reward potential. Taking large risks when knowing at the start it will have an extremely low reward is a bad idea IMO.
Targeting niches can be quite lucrative if they're large enough and not already catered to. If 90% of players strongly prefer A to B and 10% strongly prefer B to A, then perhaps most games should do A and not B. But if all games do A, then there's quite an unserved market in doing B. If you can sell your game to 10% of MMO players, or even 1% of gamers, then that's a huge hit.
Yeah you pretty much summed up my exact post from another thread. Nice summary thanks
Sure, an MMORPG can be successful without combat. In my opinion, a manager-type MMORPG would have a lot of potential, such as an adventurer guild manager, or a hero party manager.
Just play a station trader in EVE Online. No combat at all. If the game can exist without combat is an entirely different question :-)
Bit like Minecraft, but they added combat later, or was it there from the start?
I got my copy of Minecraft when Notch kept a running number of sales on his site , I bought the 25,811 copy , was very early on , there was combat at that time.
What's at question here imo is the degree of success and people's definition of Success for ex. Some people will tell you that most MMOs are failures some in this very thread .
If a game/(or any business) has consumers that are enjoying the product , and you are paying your employees while further growing your product. Like any other business that is a success.
I think Palia can , but as I said before they really need to focus on there demographic and target it . So they don't end up like the next Crowfall.
"The Nintendo title was a roaring success, selling more digital copies - five million - in a single month than any other console game in history. Currently, lifetime sales of Animal Crossing: New Horizons sit at 39.38 million units."
Think this speaks to the notion that some people may just be unfamiliar with the popularity of gaming outside of combat focused experiences. Makes the capacity to judge the potential of an mmo iterations success a little more difficult if one if not engaged or familiar with the subject it may be based on.
Well, if Euro Truck Simulator 2 supported hundreds of players in the game world, then i would likely play the heck out of it, same with American Truck Simulator, and yes i do have all the expansions There is 'limited' multiplayer options at the moment with Convoys, but if they ever went large on that, i'd totally be in there, you do not need combat to make a game fun at all!
If a game/(or any business) has consumers that are enjoying the product , and you are paying your employees while further growing your product. Like any other business that is a success.
Care to tell us all the MMO's out there that are currently GROWING and not stagnating or declining? Please give examples of what you are talking about.
This topic comes up occasionally.....There used to be a game called "Glitch" that had no combat....I really enjoyed it but the studio that made it went bankrupt and they had to shut it down....For a game to survive without combat, it would have to have high quality social aspects that the players find enjoyable.....Believe it or not, there is a world out there where we dont have to kill every living thing...It just hasnt been done well yet.
Oh, you are talking about real life then?
Agreed, that hasn't been done all that well so far.
Unfortunately "real life" does have combat...and too much of it lately
That was a great read. If you count Sports MMOs, there have been quite a few moderately successful non-combat MMOs. I think Shot Online, the golf MMO, is still going. I would definitely be interested in trying VR chat, but I don't think VR is ready for prime time yet so I don't have a VR setup.
Now can they be a real mainstream success ala WoW or FFXIV? All signs so far point to no. VRchat and Second Life are probably the two most successful so far, if you want to call them MMOs.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
If a game/(or any business) has consumers that are enjoying the product , and you are paying your employees while further growing your product. Like any other business that is a success.
Care to tell us all the MMO's out there that are currently GROWING and not stagnating or declining? Please give examples of what you are talking about.
It's rare for player bases to slowly grow over time. Usually they have one or more big spikes at various events (open beta, launch, expansions, etc.), then a slow decline over time. That's not specific to MMOs. A large player base that is slowly declining until it spikes back upward with the next expansion can still be a plenty successful game.
If a game/(or any business) has consumers that are enjoying the product , and you are paying your employees while further growing your product. Like any other business that is a success.
Care to tell us all the MMO's out there that are currently GROWING and not stagnating or declining? Please give examples of what you are talking about.
Reading comp , notice it says , "Growing your product "
For ex. even EQ and UO continue to expand in there content for there players keeping them engaged and satisfied customers , and yes both are successful.
If they did not grow there product , players would have left long ago , but both continue to grow and expand there game world.
Apparently the overall MMOG space has been growing steadily and is expected to continue to do so.
Perhaps not MMORPGS specifically, but someone is being very successful in this MMO space.
"The MMOG (Massively Multiplayer Online Games) market in the U.S. is estimated at US$5.8 Billion in the year 2020. China, the world's second largest economy, is forecast to reach a projected market size of US$8.2 Billion by the year 2027 trailing a CAGR of 12.6% over the analysis period 2020 to 2027."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Whenever someone says MMO, or MMOG, you count games like Fortnight and Paths of Exile. MMORPGs are a very small subset of all things MMO. So let that be a caveat when seeing numbers about populations, earnings, growth, etc.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
If a game/(or any business) has consumers that are enjoying the product , and you are paying your employees while further growing your product. Like any other business that is a success.
Care to tell us all the MMO's out there that are currently GROWING and not stagnating or declining? Please give examples of what you are talking about.
It's rare for player bases to slowly grow over time. Usually they have one or more big spikes at various events (open beta, launch, expansions, etc.), then a slow decline over time. That's not specific to MMOs. A large player base that is slowly declining until it spikes back upward with the next expansion can still be a plenty successful game.
Just an excuse for badly designed MMO's. Most MMO's from the past were growing their customer base after each expansion over years until their product finally got too old.
Today they drop off extremely fast.
In other genres of games, when you look at successful franchises, every new iteration of the game, the population actually is bigger than the previous release before it.
The MMO's of today a new expansion is just a blip of a bump. Just look at New World, its expansion only got to 140k peak players on its latests release, a couple months later its down to 30k. It had 1mil at release, and sold over 25mil copies and all they can get back is 150k? Garbage.
Imagine if Call of duty latest expansion only got 150k down from 30mil. Heads would be rolling.
Just look at the numbers for Witcher 1/2/3, Elderscrolls 1/2/3/4/5, GTA 1/2/3/4/5
These new MMO's are basically almost dead after 1 year, expansions barely move the numbers.
If a game/(or any business) has consumers that are enjoying the product , and you are paying your employees while further growing your product. Like any other business that is a success.
Care to tell us all the MMO's out there that are currently GROWING and not stagnating or declining? Please give examples of what you are talking about.
Reading comp , notice it says , "Growing your product "
For ex. even EQ and UO continue to expand in there content for there players keeping them engaged and satisfied customers , and yes both are successful.
If they did not grow there product , players would have left long ago , but both continue to grow and expand there game world.
I think you are confused on what makes a successful business. Growing your customer base is good, growing your product line without anyone buying it is bad.
So lets see, who would I want to invest in, Both companies started at high profitability at release at exactly the same point.
Company 1, The number of offered products has been dramatically decreasing while the number of customers and sales has been dramatically increasing.
Company 2, The number of customers has been dramatically decreasing while the products and sales has been dramatically decreasing.
I think you are confused on what makes a successful business. Growing your customer base is good, growing your product line without anyone buying it is bad.
So lets see, who would I want to invest in, Both companies started at high profitability at release at exactly the same point.
Company 1, The number of offered products has been dramatically decreasing while the number of customers and sales has been dramatically increasing.
Company 2, The number of customers has been dramatically decreasing while the products and sales has been dramatically decreasing.
Seems rather obvious to me.
You should re-read what you wrote and then ask yourself if you haven't lost the plot a bit.
Now if we are talking about something outside of the role-playing genre, then yes, there are plenty of examples of video games out there that do not rely on the normal structure of a rpg, like the Sims franchise.
But the question is specifically "can mmorpgs be successful without combat." - it's a question that shouldn't even be entertained.
But without reading this article i already know what is trying to be mined here; the idea of online social experiences being in the same genre as a conventional mmorpg; like VRchat or Second Life, or playing a board game online.
It's a over-convoluted talking point, and the online social game circles rarely require the help of a mmorpg game tag being attached to it; unless it does, then i think we've kinda messed something up.
Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013 Fishing on Bronzebeard since 2005 Fishing in RL since 1992 Born with a fishing rod in my hand in 1979
Comments
VRChat is successful & it has lots of non-combat stuff. EDIT: Nvm, I just read the last paragraph in the article.
"The Nintendo title was a roaring success, selling more digital copies - five million - in a single month than any other console game in history. Currently, lifetime sales of Animal Crossing: New Horizons sit at 39.38 million units."
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
If a game/(or any business) has consumers that are enjoying the product , and you are paying your employees while further growing your product. Like any other business that is a success.
I think Palia can , but as I said before they really need to focus on there demographic and target it . So they don't end up like the next Crowfall.
Remove combat from Eve tommorrow it is shut down inside 30 days.
There is 'limited' multiplayer options at the moment with Convoys, but if they ever went large on that, i'd totally be in there, you do not need combat to make a game fun at all!
Unfortunately "real life" does have combat...and too much of it lately
Now can they be a real mainstream success ala WoW or FFXIV? All signs so far point to no. VRchat and Second Life are probably the two most successful so far, if you want to call them MMOs.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
For ex. even EQ and UO continue to expand in there content for there players keeping them engaged and satisfied customers , and yes both are successful.
If they did not grow there product , players would have left long ago , but both continue to grow and expand there game world.
Perhaps not MMORPGS specifically, but someone is being very successful in this MMO space.
"The MMOG (Massively Multiplayer Online Games) market in the U.S. is estimated at US$5.8 Billion in the year 2020. China, the world's second largest economy, is forecast to reach a projected market size of US$8.2 Billion by the year 2027 trailing a CAGR of 12.6% over the analysis period 2020 to 2027."
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20221214005645/en/Global-MMOG-Massively-Multiplayer-Online-Games-Strategic-Market-Report-2022-Market-to-Reach-38.8-Billion-by-2027---Role-Play-Games-RPG-Segment-to-Account-for-21.3-Billion---ResearchAndMarkets.com
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Today they drop off extremely fast.
In other genres of games, when you look at successful franchises, every new iteration of the game, the population actually is bigger than the previous release before it.
The MMO's of today a new expansion is just a blip of a bump. Just look at New World, its expansion only got to 140k peak players on its latests release, a couple months later its down to 30k. It had 1mil at release, and sold over 25mil copies and all they can get back is 150k? Garbage.
Imagine if Call of duty latest expansion only got 150k down from 30mil. Heads would be rolling.
Just look at the numbers for Witcher 1/2/3, Elderscrolls 1/2/3/4/5, GTA 1/2/3/4/5
These new MMO's are basically almost dead after 1 year, expansions barely move the numbers.
So lets see, who would I want to invest in, Both companies started at high profitability at release at exactly the same point.
Company 1, The number of offered products has been dramatically decreasing while the number of customers and sales has been dramatically increasing.
Company 2, The number of customers has been dramatically decreasing while the products and sales has been dramatically decreasing.
Seems rather obvious to me.
Now if we are talking about something outside of the role-playing genre, then yes, there are plenty of examples of video games out there that do not rely on the normal structure of a rpg, like the Sims franchise.
But the question is specifically "can mmorpgs be successful without combat." - it's a question that shouldn't even be entertained.
But without reading this article i already know what is trying to be mined here; the idea of online social experiences being in the same genre as a conventional mmorpg; like VRchat or Second Life, or playing a board game online.
It's a over-convoluted talking point, and the online social game circles rarely require the help of a mmorpg game tag being attached to it; unless it does, then i think we've kinda messed something up.
Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013
Fishing on Bronzebeard since 2005
Fishing in RL since 1992
Born with a fishing rod in my hand in 1979