I don't see anything wrong with it. It's pretty much how ARPG is played. You keep repeating the same map and you try to do it as efficieint as possible.
I think the reality is there really isn't any challenge in grinding or farming. And the only challenge is to do it as efficient as possible.
It looks like some of you really do not like this genre or how the games handle power, advancement, rewards and want to change something a lot of the current players who support these games truly enjoy.
It looks like some of you really do not like this genre or how the games handle power, advancement, rewards and want to change something a lot of the current players who support these games truly enjoy.
Yeah some people enjoy it because the enjoyment they get out of the game isn't affected by the issues raised.
I guess you think by changing the system to appease those who want better PvP scaling, it would break their enjoyment. Actually though, it would simply make for a better game.
People can and do absolutely enjoy games out there with fundamentally broken or straight up bad systems. A lot of the time they are not knowledgable or experienced enough to realise that it could be far better. They just settle for what they know and are used to.
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
PvP is a fertile ground to grow whales. PvP players are big spenders. One-upmanship is a good model for them to base monetization. It's a no brainer for them to focus on keeping the whales happy. The small fry can remain as fodder sadly as far as the suits are concerned.
The mobile market has been giving a good schooling on gamers tendencies and what makes players spend unwisely. I doubt players are going to change in the near future and stop paying to get the upper hand.
The ones that spend time and energy without paying are doing the same thing in a different way, so obviously there is value to the player to remain on top.
I myself find grinding can be oddly satisfying but I am not very dedicated nor that ambitious and not a PvPer.
I think the more egregious part is that not only do you have to put in the hours and effort you now need to spend a bit of money too to be competitive. Yet players don't walk away if the monetization isn't that bad. They are willing to spend the money when the smart move was to leave the game but their circle of mates are all playing it so that wasn't a choice. Oh how far we have fallen.
So you must build up your character power to be competitive with those that have built their character power? That seems reasonable when all must do so.
It's not just about better stats. As you pointed out yourself it is also about game knowledge and player skill, especially when opponents are similarly geared.
It seems more the system doesn't suit your tastes than it being actually flawed. I imagine there are games that provide alternate PvP experiences if preferred.
Totally agree, since my first RPG, a simple crawler called Dungeons of Daggaroth it's always been about progressing my character until it's a walking "god" in the game world, stomping into dust opponents who went from being fearsome to becoming fodder.
Lower level players in MMORPGS are like the NPCs in the starter zones, fodder for the highly experienced, well geared "godz" walking the land.
Difference is, newer players should align themselves with the higher tier folks who often can provide quite a leg up on helping others more quickly climb the ladder to the ranks of the highly exalted.
If gamers want to start a new game and be more or less on par with others they need to be playing different genres which aren't focused on progression as their core pillar, shooters or something like that
MMORPGS have always been about playing ones "dues" and sucking it up until one "gets gud."
Here's another reality I've long had to accept, no matter how good one might get, there will always be some (or on my case , many) players who will always play a level so much higher than anything I might hope to achieve.
The reasons for this vary, some play more, some spend more, many take the time to know more, treating the game as more of a science while I stick to a far more casual gaming experience.
You either accept how MMORPGs are designed or you play something else, which clearly many gamers do, which is fine in my book.
Keep your "fair and balanced" out of my MMORPGS.
Yeah I dont agree with your point of view on this at all, my experience is totally opposite. I usually get in a game, and start off strong and stay that way. There was no "putting in dues" like you say. Maybe its because if you get in a game many years later, then you get a different perception, but I tend to get in early so that is not the case at all.
Successful games that did have ganking, griefing, or some requirement to suck up to high level players, generally did things to minimize that, like starter zones just for newbs.
I think the putting in your "dues" concept is just accepting bad design. The early adopters never had to put their "dues" in. They were dominating from day 1.
This is probably one reason games tend to be popular early on. People are sick of being dominated due to game design. I dont want to have to lick someones boots just to get ahead in a video game. If you expect people to kiss someones ring just to have fun, then expect to have unpopular games.
I dont think we should be justifying these concepts as its always been this way, when it actually hasnt been like that for many.
So you must build up your character power to be competitive with those that have built their character power? That seems reasonable when all must do so.
It's not just about better stats. As you pointed out yourself it is also about game knowledge and player skill, especially when opponents are similarly geared.
It seems more the system doesn't suit your tastes than it being actually flawed. I imagine there are games that provide alternate PvP experiences if preferred.
Totally agree, since my first RPG, a simple crawler called Dungeons of Daggaroth it's always been about progressing my character until it's a walking "god" in the game world, stomping into dust opponents who went from being fearsome to becoming fodder.
Lower level players in MMORPGS are like the NPCs in the starter zones, fodder for the highly experienced, well geared "godz" walking the land.
Difference is, newer players should align themselves with the higher tier folks who often can provide quite a leg up on helping others more quickly climb the ladder to the ranks of the highly exalted.
If gamers want to start a new game and be more or less on par with others they need to be playing different genres which aren't focused on progression as their core pillar, shooters or something like that
MMORPGS have always been about playing ones "dues" and sucking it up until one "gets gud."
Here's another reality I've long had to accept, no matter how good one might get, there will always be some (or on my case , many) players who will always play a level so much higher than anything I might hope to achieve.
The reasons for this vary, some play more, some spend more, many take the time to know more, treating the game as more of a science while I stick to a far more casual gaming experience.
You either accept how MMORPGs are designed or you play something else, which clearly many gamers do, which is fine in my book.
Keep your "fair and balanced" out of my MMORPGS.
Yeah I dont agree with your point of view on this at all, my experience is totally opposite. I usually get in a game, and start off strong and stay that way. There was no "putting in dues" like you say. Maybe its because if you get in a game many years later, then you get a different perception, but I tend to get in early so that is not the case at all.
Successful games that did have ganking, griefing, or some requirement to suck up to high level players, generally did things to minimize that, like starter zones just for newbs.
I think the putting in your "dues" concept is just accepting bad design. The early adopters never had to put their "dues" in. They were dominating from day 1.
This is probably one reason games tend to be popular early on. People are sick of being dominated due to game design. I dont want to have to lick someones boots just to get ahead in a video game. If you expect people to kiss someones ring just to have fun, then expect to have unpopular games.
I dont think we should be justifying these concepts as its always been this way, when it actually hasnt been like that for many.
Are you talking about cyrodiil and if so when was the last time you entered the zone ?
So you must build up your character power to be competitive with those that have built their character power? That seems reasonable when all must do so.
It's not just about better stats. As you pointed out yourself it is also about game knowledge and player skill, especially when opponents are similarly geared.
It seems more the system doesn't suit your tastes than it being actually flawed. I imagine there are games that provide alternate PvP experiences if preferred.
Totally agree, since my first RPG, a simple crawler called Dungeons of Daggaroth it's always been about progressing my character until it's a walking "god" in the game world, stomping into dust opponents who went from being fearsome to becoming fodder.
Lower level players in MMORPGS are like the NPCs in the starter zones, fodder for the highly experienced, well geared "godz" walking the land.
Difference is, newer players should align themselves with the higher tier folks who often can provide quite a leg up on helping others more quickly climb the ladder to the ranks of the highly exalted.
If gamers want to start a new game and be more or less on par with others they need to be playing different genres which aren't focused on progression as their core pillar, shooters or something like that
MMORPGS have always been about playing ones "dues" and sucking it up until one "gets gud."
Here's another reality I've long had to accept, no matter how good one might get, there will always be some (or on my case , many) players who will always play a level so much higher than anything I might hope to achieve.
The reasons for this vary, some play more, some spend more, many take the time to know more, treating the game as more of a science while I stick to a far more casual gaming experience.
You either accept how MMORPGs are designed or you play something else, which clearly many gamers do, which is fine in my book.
Keep your "fair and balanced" out of my MMORPGS.
Yeah I dont agree with your point of view on this at all, my experience is totally opposite. I usually get in a game, and start off strong and stay that way. There was no "putting in dues" like you say. Maybe its because if you get in a game many years later, then you get a different perception, but I tend to get in early so that is not the case at all.
Successful games that did have ganking, griefing, or some requirement to suck up to high level players, generally did things to minimize that, like starter zones just for newbs.
I think the putting in your "dues" concept is just accepting bad design. The early adopters never had to put their "dues" in. They were dominating from day 1.
This is probably one reason games tend to be popular early on. People are sick of being dominated due to game design. I dont want to have to lick someones boots just to get ahead in a video game. If you expect people to kiss someones ring just to have fun, then expect to have unpopular games.
I dont think we should be justifying these concepts as its always been this way, when it actually hasnt been like that for many.
Are you talking about cyrodiil and if so when was the last time you entered the zone ?
I am not talking about any game specifically. I have played many games at launch including ESO, I never had to ask for handouts or suck up to other guilds just to get ahead. If I start early, I can put together a competitive guild.
The only game I can even think of that I was totally dominated in, was I played a D & L game made from people who made ARK, I got in late, and some Alpha guild was wiping any guild that built on the server that was not part of its alliance. This is exactly why that server was completely dead. Its also why the PVP in that game on official servers is dead.
Its that exact problem and people acting like that should be normal is why we are in this mess. Dev teams need to be smarter and find a way to match with similiar skill so everyone has a chance for fun.
Kyleran said: Keep your "fair and balanced" out of my MMORPGS.
Translation: "I can only enjoy mmos when I can roflstomp someone who is incredibly undergeared and delude myself into thinking I am l33t skilled player deserving of the feeling of victory"
Funny anecdote, in WoW during Legion they created stat templates for pvp which they were by no means perfect but pvp was the most balanced it ever was because anyone could just join a battleground and compete.
Guess how much certain players complained because they could no longer one shot people who were undergeared because god forbid your delusions of greandeur are broken when everyone is on equal level. They might not have had skill but they did have time to farm gear which was the only thing actually letting them kill other players.
That is why many mmorpg players intensely FEAR casuals getting equal power, because once everyone has equal power, only differentiating factor is skill and you know you dont have that.
Also your system is a recipe for dead mmos, doesnt matter how l33t skilled you are in seriously hardcore pvp mmo, people will group up and slowly push everyone out of the game while telling each other how great they are for dominating the server by one shotting people left and right until they are the only ones left.
Hint: That is why hardocre pvp mmos are pretty much a dead genre.
If you knew anything about my gaming history you'd realize I am more often the "stompee" and rarely the stomper as I get no pleasure from said activities.
People used to remark how bad I was at PVP when my name didn't come up on a killmail after the roam ganked a hapless miner, most didn't realize I never fired a shot.
It is nice though when others can't ninja stomp me due to my character having gained enough "power" to make it easier to survive long enough to escape from the wolves nipping at my heels.
Still I support the progression mechanics of most MMORPGS but don't take it anywhere near the level of meta you've been describing nor think the entire system needs to be torn down because some do.
You are correct in saying players often are the cause of spoiling their own fun but I'm not one of them.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So you must build up your character power to be competitive with those that have built their character power? That seems reasonable when all must do so.
It's not just about better stats. As you pointed out yourself it is also about game knowledge and player skill, especially when opponents are similarly geared.
It seems more the system doesn't suit your tastes than it being actually flawed. I imagine there are games that provide alternate PvP experiences if preferred.
Totally agree, since my first RPG, a simple crawler called Dungeons of Daggaroth it's always been about progressing my character until it's a walking "god" in the game world, stomping into dust opponents who went from being fearsome to becoming fodder.
Lower level players in MMORPGS are like the NPCs in the starter zones, fodder for the highly experienced, well geared "godz" walking the land.
Difference is, newer players should align themselves with the higher tier folks who often can provide quite a leg up on helping others more quickly climb the ladder to the ranks of the highly exalted.
If gamers want to start a new game and be more or less on par with others they need to be playing different genres which aren't focused on progression as their core pillar, shooters or something like that
MMORPGS have always been about playing ones "dues" and sucking it up until one "gets gud."
Here's another reality I've long had to accept, no matter how good one might get, there will always be some (or on my case , many) players who will always play a level so much higher than anything I might hope to achieve.
The reasons for this vary, some play more, some spend more, many take the time to know more, treating the game as more of a science while I stick to a far more casual gaming experience.
You either accept how MMORPGs are designed or you play something else, which clearly many gamers do, which is fine in my book.
Keep your "fair and balanced" out of my MMORPGS.
Yeah I dont agree with your point of view on this at all, my experience is totally opposite. I usually get in a game, and start off strong and stay that way. There was no "putting in dues" like you say. Maybe its because if you get in a game many years later, then you get a different perception, but I tend to get in early so that is not the case at all.
Successful games that did have ganking, griefing, or some requirement to suck up to high level players, generally did things to minimize that, like starter zones just for newbs.
I think the putting in your "dues" concept is just accepting bad design. The early adopters never had to put their "dues" in. They were dominating from day 1.
This is probably one reason games tend to be popular early on. People are sick of being dominated due to game design. I dont want to have to lick someones boots just to get ahead in a video game. If you expect people to kiss someones ring just to have fun, then expect to have unpopular games.
I dont think we should be justifying these concepts as its always been this way, when it actually hasnt been like that for many.
Well you might be correct as I generally join MMORPGS years after they've gotten started, but regardless I've never had the time or inclination to keep ahead of the pack even when I started some on day 1.
I also played EVE, and one paid their dues (and sub fees) for many years, at least back before players could pay to advance their skill training more quickly.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So you must build up your character power to be competitive with those that have built their character power? That seems reasonable when all must do so.
It's not just about better stats. As you pointed out yourself it is also about game knowledge and player skill, especially when opponents are similarly geared.
It seems more the system doesn't suit your tastes than it being actually flawed. I imagine there are games that provide alternate PvP experiences if preferred.
Totally agree, since my first RPG, a simple crawler called Dungeons of Daggaroth it's always been about progressing my character until it's a walking "god" in the game world, stomping into dust opponents who went from being fearsome to becoming fodder.
Lower level players in MMORPGS are like the NPCs in the starter zones, fodder for the highly experienced, well geared "godz" walking the land.
Difference is, newer players should align themselves with the higher tier folks who often can provide quite a leg up on helping others more quickly climb the ladder to the ranks of the highly exalted.
If gamers want to start a new game and be more or less on par with others they need to be playing different genres which aren't focused on progression as their core pillar, shooters or something like that
MMORPGS have always been about playing ones "dues" and sucking it up until one "gets gud."
Here's another reality I've long had to accept, no matter how good one might get, there will always be some (or on my case , many) players who will always play a level so much higher than anything I might hope to achieve.
The reasons for this vary, some play more, some spend more, many take the time to know more, treating the game as more of a science while I stick to a far more casual gaming experience.
You either accept how MMORPGs are designed or you play something else, which clearly many gamers do, which is fine in my book.
Keep your "fair and balanced" out of my MMORPGS.
Yeah I dont agree with your point of view on this at all, my experience is totally opposite. I usually get in a game, and start off strong and stay that way. There was no "putting in dues" like you say. Maybe its because if you get in a game many years later, then you get a different perception, but I tend to get in early so that is not the case at all.
Successful games that did have ganking, griefing, or some requirement to suck up to high level players, generally did things to minimize that, like starter zones just for newbs.
I think the putting in your "dues" concept is just accepting bad design. The early adopters never had to put their "dues" in. They were dominating from day 1.
This is probably one reason games tend to be popular early on. People are sick of being dominated due to game design. I dont want to have to lick someones boots just to get ahead in a video game. If you expect people to kiss someones ring just to have fun, then expect to have unpopular games.
I dont think we should be justifying these concepts as its always been this way, when it actually hasnt been like that for many.
Are you talking about cyrodiil and if so when was the last time you entered the zone ?
I am not talking about any game specifically. I have played many games at launch including ESO, I never had to ask for handouts or suck up to other guilds just to get ahead. If I start early, I can put together a competitive guild.
The only game I can even think of that I was totally dominated in, was I played a D & L game made from people who made ARK, I got in late, and some Alpha guild was wiping any guild that built on the server that was not part of its alliance. This is exactly why that server was completely dead. Its also why the PVP in that game on official servers is dead.
Its that exact problem and people acting like that should be normal is why we are in this mess. Dev teams need to be smarter and find a way to match with similiar skill so everyone has a chance for fun.
ok. in general then, gotcha.
I'm specifically talking about cyrodiil which is a place of misery for a lot of fans of the zone as an example for the OP.
General game content i feel only gets hated at end game, when people hit a wall in a lot of mmos that requir 2000 wigets for 1 of 500 gidgits to get 1 of 50 hidpits that will get you the base legendary thingamahoot. Which the thingamahoot has slots for 5 mythic gagaligits. the gagaligits yuou need 5000 of....
So you must build up your character power to be competitive with those that have built their character power? That seems reasonable when all must do so.
It's not just about better stats. As you pointed out yourself it is also about game knowledge and player skill, especially when opponents are similarly geared.
It seems more the system doesn't suit your tastes than it being actually flawed. I imagine there are games that provide alternate PvP experiences if preferred.
It seems you didn't read my post. I pointed out that the huge power disparity is the bad thing, and how things like game knowledge and skill matter very very little in comparison. That is what Summit was basically trying to say.
This isn't down to taste in my opinion. Needing 2 years of game time in order to be the slightest bit competitive in PvP is straight up bad game design. Having an edge because you have put in 2 years into the game is better, rather than making it so others can't compete.
There are also very silly things like having to have a bunch of pots and food and all sorts too in ESO I believe, just to be competitive. Again, this isn't good game design. No PvP player wants to have to do that crap, and before you say "I do!", you can go stand alone in your corner on that one because no one else does.
I can understand some of the difficulty... It is difficult to tune a system to work well both for PvE and PvP. The combat systems and tuning have to be built from the ground up while ensuring changes work for both. Unfortunately, a lot of devs have a bias one side or the other, so one side of the coin suffers.
It seems you make assumptions for you which you have no basis. I read your post. I then wrote my post. So ends the Tale of Two Posts.
How long it should take to be PvP competitive is a matter of varying opinion. That potion and food use in ESO PvP is silly is a matter of varying opinion.
You can legitimately speak for what one PvP player wants, provided you are that PvP player and it is about your wants.
It seems you make assumptions for you which you have no basis. I read your post. I then wrote my post. So ends the Tale of Two Posts.
How long it should take to be PvP competitive is a matter of varying opinion. That potion and food use in ESO PvP is silly is a matter of varying opinion.
You can legitimately speak for what one PvP player wants, provided you are that PvP player and it is about your wants.
The thing is I'm advocating for systems that appease all, not just one side. ESO is basically a PvE system with PvP "tacked on". If you look at most PvP games, their tuning is quite different.
You are just saying "but everyone has an opinion bro, and it is fineeeeee as it is, just enjoy it".
Nope, not having that. This is why you get people like Summit who are avid PvP players raging at the game because the systems are bad. I want to actually improve the genre and have devs build better systems from the ground up.
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
I agree with a lot of what the OP states and wanted to add I became a lot happier and more productive in general when I quit playing MMOs with any degree of seriousness. Last MMO I played was New World, and then it was to check out the new content. I rolled a new character, played from 1 to 60, looked at the grind requirements to continue to advance, and quit. Ain't nobody got time for that! At least I don't.
I look at everything I've done with the time I used to spend grinding MMOs and I'm nothing but thankful I made that choice. Life is short. Don't piss it away on MMOs.
I am also a fan of this. And although there are a lot of people who do not like this because it leads to your character not getting much stronger over time, I believe there are a lot of people who would love this.
I also always say "What's the difference of hitting a 100hp mob with 10 damage and a 10.000hp mob with 1000 damage"
It seems you make assumptions for you which you have no basis. I read your post. I then wrote my post. So ends the Tale of Two Posts.
How long it should take to be PvP competitive is a matter of varying opinion. That potion and food use in ESO PvP is silly is a matter of varying opinion.
You can legitimately speak for what one PvP player wants, provided you are that PvP player and it is about your wants.
The thing is I'm advocating for systems that appease all, not just one side. ESO is basically a PvE system with PvP "tacked on". If you look at most PvP games, their tuning is quite different.
You are just saying "but everyone has an opinion bro, and it is fineeeeee as it is, just enjoy it".
Nope, not having that. This is why you get people like Summit who are avid PvP players raging at the game because the systems are bad. I want to actually improve the genre and have devs build better systems from the ground up.
That is indeed what ESO is, a PvE game with PvP tacked on.
It is potentially a good game choice if are focused entirely to mostly on PvE. It is a bad game choice if you are focused on PvP.
It is fine as it is for those seeking what it is. For those seeking something else is less so to the extent that desired deviates from what it is.
No one is obliged to have that, but if they play ESO that's what they'll get.
Wanting a balance of the two is fine. The having of it depends on someone actually providing it, which apparently hasn't yet been done hence your advocating for it.
The best package in my eyes is to have vertical advancement in PvE with scaling to ensure groups operate at an appropriate level. What is appropriate depends on what they are doing and no scaling for dungeons.
When it comes to PvP the level differences should be muted but still there. So two guys at level 30 should be able to take down a level 50, it could go either way but he should not be effectively invulnerable.
Another issue that UO resolved 26 years ago , a new player that is skilled can be naked and wreak havoc on even multiple 7x players if they are unskilled and/ or not on there game , I've seen it happen several times.
Another issue that UO resolved 26 years ago , a new player that is skilled can be naked and wreak havoc on even multiple 7x players if they are unskilled and/ or not on there game , I've seen it happen several times.
Do you mean new players that bought maxed out characters? That kind of "skilled"?
I played UO for a lot of years, and I can't see that happening normally.
But I did like the closer Power Gap differences, because it opened up a lot of player socialization / interactions in a lot of ways.
Edit to ask... Can you describe the scenario to me? In a Dungeon among MOBs? Using top end gear? Scrolls? Best Heal Potions, etc.?
And importantly, after they changed HPs to = 50 points plus half of Strength?
Comments
I think the reality is there really isn't any challenge in grinding or farming. And the only challenge is to do it as efficient as possible.
The mobile market has been giving a good schooling on gamers tendencies and what makes players spend unwisely. I doubt players are going to change in the near future and stop paying to get the upper hand.
The ones that spend time and energy without paying are doing the same thing in a different way, so obviously there is value to the player to remain on top.
I myself find grinding can be oddly satisfying but I am not very dedicated nor that ambitious and not a PvPer.
I think the more egregious part is that not only do you have to put in the hours and effort you now need to spend a bit of money too to be competitive. Yet players don't walk away if the monetization isn't that bad. They are willing to spend the money when the smart move was to leave the game but their circle of mates are all playing it so that wasn't a choice. Oh how far we have fallen.
Successful games that did have ganking, griefing, or some requirement to suck up to high level players, generally did things to minimize that, like starter zones just for newbs.
I think the putting in your "dues" concept is just accepting bad design. The early adopters never had to put their "dues" in. They were dominating from day 1.
This is probably one reason games tend to be popular early on. People are sick of being dominated due to game design. I dont want to have to lick someones boots just to get ahead in a video game. If you expect people to kiss someones ring just to have fun, then expect to have unpopular games.
I dont think we should be justifying these concepts as its always been this way, when it actually hasnt been like that for many.
Are you talking about cyrodiil and if so when was the last time you entered the zone ?
The only game I can even think of that I was totally dominated in, was I played a D & L game made from people who made ARK, I got in late, and some Alpha guild was wiping any guild that built on the server that was not part of its alliance. This is exactly why that server was completely dead. Its also why the PVP in that game on official servers is dead.
Its that exact problem and people acting like that should be normal is why we are in this mess. Dev teams need to be smarter and find a way to match with similiar skill so everyone has a chance for fun.
People used to remark how bad I was at PVP when my name didn't come up on a killmail after the roam ganked a hapless miner, most didn't realize I never fired a shot.
It is nice though when others can't ninja stomp me due to my character having gained enough "power" to make it easier to survive long enough to escape from the wolves nipping at my heels.
Still I support the progression mechanics of most MMORPGS but don't take it anywhere near the level of meta you've been describing nor think the entire system needs to be torn down because some do.
You are correct in saying players often are the cause of spoiling their own fun but I'm not one of them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I also played EVE, and one paid their dues (and sub fees) for many years, at least back before players could pay to advance their skill training more quickly.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It seems you make assumptions for you which you have no basis. I read your post. I then wrote my post. So ends the Tale of Two Posts.
How long it should take to be PvP competitive is a matter of varying opinion. That potion and food use in ESO PvP is silly is a matter of varying opinion.
You can legitimately speak for what one PvP player wants, provided you are that PvP player and it is about your wants.
I look at everything I've done with the time I used to spend grinding MMOs and I'm nothing but thankful I made that choice. Life is short. Don't piss it away on MMOs.
And although there are a lot of people who do not like this because it leads to your character not getting much stronger over time, I believe there are a lot of people who would love this.
I also always say "What's the difference of hitting a 100hp mob with 10 damage and a 10.000hp mob with 1000 damage"
1997 Meridian 59 'til 2019 ESO
Waiting for Camelot Unchained & Pantheon
That is indeed what ESO is, a PvE game with PvP tacked on.
It is potentially a good game choice if are focused entirely to mostly on PvE. It is a bad game choice if you are focused on PvP.
It is fine as it is for those seeking what it is. For those seeking something else is less so to the extent that desired deviates from what it is.
No one is obliged to have that, but if they play ESO that's what they'll get.
Wanting a balance of the two is fine. The having of it depends on someone actually providing it, which apparently hasn't yet been done hence your advocating for it.
When it comes to PvP the level differences should be muted but still there. So two guys at level 30 should be able to take down a level 50, it could go either way but he should not be effectively invulnerable.
Why do we need these huge numbers again? Idk, I grew up on D&D, MTG and GW 1, none of them particularly known for numbersflation.
I played UO for a lot of years, and I can't see that happening normally.
But I did like the closer Power Gap differences, because it opened up a lot of player socialization / interactions in a lot of ways.
Edit to ask...
Can you describe the scenario to me?
In a Dungeon among MOBs?
Using top end gear?
Scrolls?
Best Heal Potions, etc.?
And importantly, after they changed HPs to = 50 points plus half of Strength?
Once upon a time....