The problem is not the platform. It's the quality of the game and the payment model. Mobile games seem to be fine with being micro dinged on a level that is unfair in the minds of gamers that PC Game exclusively. The quality is in the auto play that comes with mobile gamers. Old school gamers play to be challenged not to get pat on the back for what ever auto play achievements we can earn.
I disagree. Its the platform as well. All a "mobile" game brings to the table is portability. Processing power, Screen fidelity, screen size, audio, input mechanisms... these all heavily favor a PC and/or console.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The mobile MMO market is at least 10 times bigger than the console and PC MMO market combined.
So, it seems to be doing OK for itself despite the opinions of a handful of geezers in this thread.
A lot depends on what you count as an MMO. If you exclude games that don't have any shared world where you could see other players, but have leaderboards where you can basically compete to see who spends the most money, then the mobile MMO market would be a lot smaller.
A lot smaller, so only 5 times bigger than console and PC MMOs combined.
Lineage W made like $800 million last year.
"Although Lineage W was very successful in the Korean and Taiwanese markets, it did not find similar success in other Asian markets. Notably in Japan, the second largest gaming market in Asia, the game found disappointing sale figures, with similar poor performance in countries like Singapore and the United Arab Emirates.
The financial failure of Lineage W outside of South Korea and Taiwan is possibly one of the reasons for the reluctance of a European and North American release of the game by NCSoft.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well - one of the major issues not brought up is that mobiles also have limited space. I’m pretty sure you could adapt mmo’s like wow to a mobile - but hugging 20gb of space on a mobile is a pretty big ask.
Diablo Immortal showed us that graphics and gameplay can be good on a mobile version, although they totally ruined it with the pay to win -> but they showed that it is possible.
Looking at how dumbed and watered down MMORPG have become over the years, I see no reason why not. I'd understand that game is good and porting game to mobile would bring quality down, but these days games are already so bad that porting it to mobile would have no affect on quality.
Never will I ever play a mobile MMORPG, when I play I want to sit down comfortable, detached from my daily life, in my office room, my multiple screens, convenient mouse and keyboard doing multiple things like conversing and linking related material while playing around in the game using discord.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I play MMO's to immerse myself in a virtual persistent world. Current small-screen phones can't sustain immersion for me, so right now, no.
Once the mobile platform (implant the size of a BB with full access to your vision system) evolves enough, I see no reason it can't be good. If your phone powers a VR headset, why not use it?
Perhaps a decent use today would be an offline mini-game for an MMO, like farming or something.
Playing at a desk is far superior for a game you really want to get into. You have more control options with mouse and keyboard or controller, space on you desk for your drink, pen, paper, headset, etc. The game can display more information on a bigger screen, and to do multiple things while you play, like watch a video. You can even have your phone and take a call or respond to a text while you play.
Most mobile MMORPGs are simply designed to kill time without significant input or complexity. They hit the "sweet spot" for many where there brain is looking for a simple outlet (like watching TV) and/or where they can make progress during period of limited input (such as riding on a train) or even while the phone is on a desk (via autoplay).
None of these options feel like "playing a game" to me. They are ways of consuming time, burning battery, and wasting money, since they often have little view of an objective except to work through systems as opposed to more meaningful progression driven by player choice and activity.
Does this mean that there cannot be "good" mobile MMORPGs? Of course there can be. However, most businesses seek to capitalize on monetization and experience trends that make money, and your average hero gatcha game with numerous layers of systems is the way to get lots of players in the door for free and keep them interested just long enough to throw tons of "money saving" ads in their face with the hope that they spent a dollar or two.
I remember a time when it was widely regarded that MMORPGs wouldn't work on consoles. As hardware increased and designs evolved to include additional control schemes, we have seen many MMORPGs successfully work on consoles now (co-existing with their PC counterparts although not always cross-play/progression).
I think it is only a matter of time but see them as mobile releases of existing MMORPGs as opposed to "good" mobile only ones.
The problem is not the platform. It's the quality of the game and the payment model. Mobile games seem to be fine with being micro dinged on a level that is unfair in the minds of gamers that PC Game exclusively. The quality is in the auto play that comes with mobile gamers. Old school gamers play to be challenged not to get pat on the back for what ever auto play achievements we can earn.
The platform is problematic for many game genres due to the limited interface most mobile systems have that games for them must accommodate.
Mobile games with other than autoplay are increasing in number so that is becoming less of an issue.
Trese Brothers is a game developer that made good use out of the mobile platform in the genres of turn-based tactical and strategy games, while avoiding questionable market practices. Their success there paved their way to PC gaming.
There are some gems hidden amongst the shards of jagged glass.
Other than lack of features mainly being the graphics, and combat mechanics being limited compared to a theme park MMO with 30 abilities to choose from; the problem with mobile games is the insane pricing model.
I do not know why even within the definition of mobile games that is acceptable.
Its clear that the government agencies are behind on what is going on, since just recently they were focused on gambling and the cost of that, so clearly they do not want people to throw their money away.
Yet, these mobile games prey on peoples addictions by making things only accessible through a pay wall. Also once a person starts paying it becomes a sunk cost fallacy, and will continue to pay.
It is literally worse than gambling since at least with gambling you might have a chance of winning in an actual casino, but with the aggressive pricing models of these mobile games people are purchasing worthless assets for a game that probably only cost a few million to develop compared to an actual AAA PC game title which would cost 100s of millions but only have a B2P pricing model.
I think governments should out law the pricing model of mobile games. As said it preys on those with an addictive personality and also it easily becomes a sunk cost fallacy, and they continue to over pay for something worthless.
Also, if developers see how easy it is to make money off of a mobile game, since it is very very very easy for them to develop, they will develop that as a form of diversifying their portfolio and mitigating risky investments which is what a respectable AAA single game would be in comparison.
So that means the small group of addicts in no name mobile games, will grow since franchises will try to take advantage of the this 'business' model and create more victims in their wake.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
I play Albion quite a bit but I certainly don’t play in full loot zones on my iPad. I’ll do some solo pve, gathering, and crafting on that, and jump on my PC for the hardcore pvp stuff.
I don’t really find playing on my phone enjoyable, other than maybe checking the market
'Tolerate' seems more appropriate; I'm sure lots of people tolerate them because it's something to pass the time and it's there and easily accessible.
Until it's not, and you can't access it anymore because it shuts down or it gets abandoned by it's developers.
Mobile games tend to have a shorter life span because of the very nature of the platform and how fast-moving the mobile audience is, jumping from one game to another as they release.
Genshin Impact right now is the newest blueprint that other mobile games have been trying to copy, that and AFK idle games and those crappy zombie survival games.
Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013 Fishing on Bronzebeard since 2005 Fishing in RL since 1992 Born with a fishing rod in my hand in 1979
The mobile MMO market is at least 10 times bigger than the console and PC MMO market combined.
So, it seems to be doing OK for itself despite the opinions of a handful of geezers in this thread.
A lot depends on what you count as an MMO. If you exclude games that don't have any shared world where you could see other players, but have leaderboards where you can basically compete to see who spends the most money, then the mobile MMO market would be a lot smaller.
A lot smaller, so only 5 times bigger than console and PC MMOs combined.
Lineage W made like $800 million last year.
That doesn't surprise me at all; the mobile market can tap into a revenue stream that can often times surpass what other markets can do, but only on occasion and in these small bursts when a new popular mobile game comes out.
I recall when Genshin Impact came out it had these really crazy revenue numbers, and before that Black Desert Mobile. Oh right and Diablo Immoral.
If these mobile games didn't make the batshit crazy revenue that they do we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013 Fishing on Bronzebeard since 2005 Fishing in RL since 1992 Born with a fishing rod in my hand in 1979
Theres a few crowds with different problems here
to some people this another console war, going on about how xbox/ps/pc/mobile is better for various reasons (and if you think about it most of the mmorpgs people talk about wanting to play again were designed for much older specs so no reason a phone cant handle those)
then there are people who want to try but the games aren't engaging enough/ too focused on monetization; its not just that they're mostly generic reskins of the same formula, for most of them you won't even be playing so much as tapping on your current quest and watch as your character does all the work from running to the location to fighting the mobs (and as panther2103 mentioned, soon as you login even for the first time you have to navigate so many menus to collect daily rewards, login rewards and look at a ton of roulettes and shops along the way)
and lastly theres the matter thing of accessibility/ ease of control. many of them dont have a particularly inviting UI, and in many cases its not designed with players adjusting the UI in mind. that means for some mmos i tried parts of the ui were outside my phones display (either the button isnt there because it goes outside the borders, or its so close to them its almost impossible to tap). when you compare this to pc & console mmos (which often go as far as to have a modding community) which allow you a lot of control through mouse and keyboard / controllers, you can see why some people wont be taking that leap
The only reason mobile is an accepted platform for any genre is due completely to the ubiquity of smartphones.
It isn't the thrilling experiences. It isn't the awe-inspiring depth. It isn't the jaw-dropping visuals. It's the fact that you can do it while shitting, riding the bus/train, sitting at your work desk, waiting in a lobby, or avoiding social interaction with your family. You can do it without spending a single dime on dedicated hardware. That is 100% why the mobile market has even become a thing. Without that, you'd have a much smaller, far less important mobile segment in the industry.
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The financial failure of Lineage W outside of South Korea and Taiwan is possibly one of the reasons for the reluctance of a European and North American release of the game by NCSoft.
South Koreans enjoy K-Pop as well....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Diablo Immortal showed us that graphics and gameplay can be good on a mobile version, although they totally ruined it with the pay to win -> but they showed that it is possible.
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
But I agree, why play games on any unpowered platform unless you absolutely have to.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
None of these options feel like "playing a game" to me. They are ways of consuming time, burning battery, and wasting money, since they often have little view of an objective except to work through systems as opposed to more meaningful progression driven by player choice and activity.
Does this mean that there cannot be "good" mobile MMORPGs? Of course there can be. However, most businesses seek to capitalize on monetization and experience trends that make money, and your average hero gatcha game with numerous layers of systems is the way to get lots of players in the door for free and keep them interested just long enough to throw tons of "money saving" ads in their face with the hope that they spent a dollar or two.
I remember a time when it was widely regarded that MMORPGs wouldn't work on consoles. As hardware increased and designs evolved to include additional control schemes, we have seen many MMORPGs successfully work on consoles now (co-existing with their PC counterparts although not always cross-play/progression).
I think it is only a matter of time but see them as mobile releases of existing MMORPGs as opposed to "good" mobile only ones.
The platform is problematic for many game genres due to the limited interface most mobile systems have that games for them must accommodate.
Mobile games with other than autoplay are increasing in number so that is becoming less of an issue.
There are some gems hidden amongst the shards of jagged glass.
I do not know why even within the definition of mobile games that is acceptable.
Its clear that the government agencies are behind on what is going on, since just recently they were focused on gambling and the cost of that, so clearly they do not want people to throw their money away.
Yet, these mobile games prey on peoples addictions by making things only accessible through a pay wall. Also once a person starts paying it becomes a sunk cost fallacy, and will continue to pay.
It is literally worse than gambling since at least with gambling you might have a chance of winning in an actual casino, but with the aggressive pricing models of these mobile games people are purchasing worthless assets for a game that probably only cost a few million to develop compared to an actual AAA PC game title which would cost 100s of millions but only have a B2P pricing model.
I think governments should out law the pricing model of mobile games. As said it preys on those with an addictive personality and also it easily becomes a sunk cost fallacy, and they continue to over pay for something worthless.
Also, if developers see how easy it is to make money off of a mobile game, since it is very very very easy for them to develop, they will develop that as a form of diversifying their portfolio and mitigating risky investments which is what a respectable AAA single game would be in comparison.
So that means the small group of addicts in no name mobile games, will grow since franchises will try to take advantage of the this 'business' model and create more victims in their wake.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
I play Albion quite a bit but I certainly don’t play in full loot zones on my iPad. I’ll do some solo pve, gathering, and crafting on that, and jump on my PC for the hardcore pvp stuff.
I don’t really find playing on my phone enjoyable, other than maybe checking the market
'Tolerate' seems more appropriate; I'm sure lots of people tolerate them because it's something to pass the time and it's there and easily accessible.
Until it's not, and you can't access it anymore because it shuts down or it gets abandoned by it's developers.
Mobile games tend to have a shorter life span because of the very nature of the platform and how fast-moving the mobile audience is, jumping from one game to another as they release.
Genshin Impact right now is the newest blueprint that other mobile games have been trying to copy, that and AFK idle games and those crappy zombie survival games.
Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013
Fishing on Bronzebeard since 2005
Fishing in RL since 1992
Born with a fishing rod in my hand in 1979
That doesn't surprise me at all; the mobile market can tap into a revenue stream that can often times surpass what other markets can do, but only on occasion and in these small bursts when a new popular mobile game comes out.
I recall when Genshin Impact came out it had these really crazy revenue numbers, and before that Black Desert Mobile. Oh right and Diablo Immoral.
If these mobile games didn't make the batshit crazy revenue that they do we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013
Fishing on Bronzebeard since 2005
Fishing in RL since 1992
Born with a fishing rod in my hand in 1979
to some people this another console war, going on about how xbox/ps/pc/mobile is better for various reasons (and if you think about it most of the mmorpgs people talk about wanting to play again were designed for much older specs so no reason a phone cant handle those)
then there are people who want to try but the games aren't engaging enough/ too focused on monetization; its not just that they're mostly generic reskins of the same formula, for most of them you won't even be playing so much as tapping on your current quest and watch as your character does all the work from running to the location to fighting the mobs (and as panther2103 mentioned, soon as you login even for the first time you have to navigate so many menus to collect daily rewards, login rewards and look at a ton of roulettes and shops along the way)
and lastly theres the matter thing of accessibility/ ease of control. many of them dont have a particularly inviting UI, and in many cases its not designed with players adjusting the UI in mind. that means for some mmos i tried parts of the ui were outside my phones display (either the button isnt there because it goes outside the borders, or its so close to them its almost impossible to tap). when you compare this to pc & console mmos (which often go as far as to have a modding community) which allow you a lot of control through mouse and keyboard / controllers, you can see why some people wont be taking that leap
It isn't the thrilling experiences. It isn't the awe-inspiring depth. It isn't the jaw-dropping visuals. It's the fact that you can do it while shitting, riding the bus/train, sitting at your work desk, waiting in a lobby, or avoiding social interaction with your family. You can do it without spending a single dime on dedicated hardware. That is 100% why the mobile market has even become a thing. Without that, you'd have a much smaller, far less important mobile segment in the industry.