Turtle WoW private server exposed

kitarad · October 2023

Things are always too good to be true. I knew when a private server gets too big shady things are going on. Taking over other private servers and building an empire and worst of all making money off them. See the thing is it is perfectly fine for me when they are not profiting and merely getting operating costs but once they start actually making money off the servers it becomes another kettle of fish altogether. Cash shops. All exposed here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/17cr9vo/exposing_the_private_server_scam_empire/

Scot · October 2023

The question is, if they are only making money out of it how is that different from giving money to a studio? I am not saying they are on a par, a studio will be making content but maybe some of the people in charge of these private servers are also making content? I would be more concerned about who I am giving my credit card details too, even bearing in mind it is through third party banking software.

You might want to copy that thread to this one before it gets removed!

kitarad · October 2023

I always knew about Turtle(Shenna/Torta) WoW being related to Elysium and them doing shady stuff and buying out/releasing several servers and building a private servers empire in the past, recently Everlook's direction and ownership changed and I once again saw the same pattern as when Turtle WoW took over other private servers in the past.

I decided to investigate more, gather some strong evidences of that "private server empire" some people are running behind the scenes and I got some very interesting finds and evidences.

Jump to the bottom if you want to see the most damning part with the "payment" section.

Let's start with the recent Everlook "update" which got my attention, the moment it was announced I was expecting it to be another Turtle buyout because there were a lot of similarities, hardcore mode, shop, usual ownership take over, china server, going "vanilla+"...

And I was right, they just released their cash shop etc and it has the Turtle WoW pattern.

rwowservers - Exposing the private server scam empire turtleelysiumfirestormeverlook

kitarad · October 2023

Let's look at the new cash shop. https://everlook.org/shop

Note that the turtle mount gets extra attention, because it's the basic scaling turtle mount from turtle wow

We have the usual purchasable bag, it's the main money maker for turtle wow they couldn't resist even if Everlook as supposed to be a "pure" vanilla server.

Here's the turtle WoW bag, same token price :

Now let's take a loot at the payment systems :

https://everlook.org/donate

You can only use a service called gamepoints.org to pay, we will go back to that later as it is a very important point.

Let's look at the tokens pricing : It's almost identical to turtle wow except the "extra" % scales a bit higher on turtle WoW. 40€ are both 440 etc

It looks even more identical if we look at the pricing directly from the payment webste (yes turtle also uses this website as their primary payment but we'll elaborate on that later)

kitarad · October 2023

Previous instances of servers being affiliated with Turtle WoW in the past :

#1 Vanilla+

Vanilla+ is the main one, it has an extremly similar take over pattern to Everlook, here is a post about their shop :

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/i4vf9h/vanilla_adds_paid_36_slot_bags_and_level_1_mounts/

In 2020 Vanilla+ launched, back at the time whenVanilla+ was brand new and Turtle WoW was still fairly fresh the only Vanilla servers were basically Elysium, Turtle WoW, kronos and Gurubashi. (remember those names)

Here's the story of the launch of Vanilla+ : They were under heavy DDOS when they launched and the server was completely unplayable for a couple days/weeks, they needed money for a new host with better DDOS protection. The server was dying rapidly because the playerbase was fed up.

They decided to shutdown the server and have a relaunch later with a new setup.

Then we had Crogge, the previous owner of Elysium coming in discord suggesting to login to their host and fix it for them. If you don't know about Crogge/elysium he was pretty close to Shenna which is highly suspected to be Torta, the owner of Turtle WoW with a new identity.

Some logs of Crogge from the vanilla+ discord still publicly available :

Images : https://imgur.com/a/4aD9xU3 (he has pages of logs in there you can check it on V+)

Note his message : "This chat became my daily entertainment nearly every pserver admin is in here btw" which clearly indicates multiple private server admins work together/are friends and he's part of that group and they were interested in V+.

Vanilla+ suddendly had a new change of ownership, "Myriam"(another suspicious new female identity) took over which I highly suspect to be Shenna/Torta, it was an alias, that person appeared/disapeared out of nowhere, server finally worked and.. and a new donation shop was added, with mounts and 28 slots bags. Vanilla+ always advertised themselves as strongly anti cash shop and pay to win before that.

Context : VooA was the original creator of Vanilla+, and the cash shop just got announced out of nowhere by Myriam.

Images : https://imgur.com/a/psAV0wr

https://vanillaplus.org/rewards/

The cash shop page is still up and nearly identical to what Turtle WoW used at the time, it had the same skins, mounts, features (the portable devices etc that are very turtle specific)

Another elements : The emotes. The Turtle WoW emotes were added whenever Myrium took over and they are still used in their dsicord to this day, https://i.imgur.com/HVBucjA.png

Obvious conspiracy theory : Turtle/Elysium were reponsible for the DDOS to take over competition, make your own mind on that.

#2 Gurubashi

Gurubashi was a brand new Vanilla server launched in 2020, slightly before Vanilla+, there was basically no competition for vanilla at the time because Light Hope closed whwen Classic launched.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/fedx6q/gurubashi_wow_new_vanilla_pvp_server/

Gurubashi was a well known Turtle wow/elysium drone, it died pretty quickly because it simply couldn't compete with Classic WoW. Crogge was actively invested in it https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/hybnxx/comment/fzi5lwp/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

It also had the Turtle WoW design and cash shop, just like V+, but sadly everything got nuked it isn't really archived. Those who were there remember though.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200806215648/https://gurubashi.org/ The website design was exactly the same as the others.

here's some old comment about their relations : https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/ljm2v3/comment/gnebxai/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

#3 Elysium... Obviously, the Shenna/Elysium/Turtle relation is well known, it was their main project before Turtle WoW.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowserversdrama/comments/p7avjv/suspicions_about_turtle_wow/

I can't really think of any other obvious Turtle wow drone right now but there might be more I don't know.

kitarad · October 2023

Now about my biggest find... The payment website.

Their payment website https://gamepoints.org/ is very obscure, you will not find anything about it online, or by even searching it on Google. https://gamepoints.org/about (based in mexico)

To pay for Turtle WoW, you access this URL : https://gamepoints.org/offers/15

The 15 is indeed the "service" ID.

Now let's take a look at Everlook :

https://gamepoints.org/offers/23

ID 23... Those are pretty low, not many games seem to use this website.

Let's be curious and look at some of other IDs...

https://gamepoints.org/offers/1

Yep that's right, #1, the very first service to use that website is Firestorm, and most likely the creator.

Here's a list of all the "games" using this website for payment : (the IDs i'm not listing are unused/removed

4 : GTAworld, a GTA RP "private server", seems to be affiliated with Firestorm&co

5 : GTAworldFr

6 : .... Elysium. Yep that's right.

7 : Uwow

8 : Vanilla+... yeah we're on something.

10 : PandaWow

11 : Xero (some other mmo private server)

12 : gtaWorldRu

13 : gtaWorld liberty City

14 : gtaWorldpoland

16 : Turtle WoW

16 : gtaWorld Spain

17 : Felsong...

kitarad · October 2023

18 : GTA again

19 : FirestormCN

20 : gtaworld

21 : WoWmythic

22 : Turtle Wow China (very recent)

23 : EVERLOOK

24 : Everlook China

Yes Vanilla+ is in there, if you didn't have enough proofs.

Chronological order obviously also checks out, we can retrace this private servers empire history, this website is obviously not used by anyone else but this group which owns an empire of private servers.

Note : I only have knowledge of Vanilla servers, maybe they also took over some of those servers in a similar way.

Edit bonus : I forgot about when Hyjal merged with Turtle WoW when it died https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/nhwrc9/hyjal_is_merging_into_turtle_wow/

Bonus Edit 2 : Suspicions of Shenna(Torta)/Elysium being involved In DDOSing/hacking previously https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/9b46ez/comment/e54c438/?context=999

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/98le7x/comment/e4gxtdx/?context=999

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowserversdrama/comments/p7avjv/suspicions_about_turtle_wow/

kitarad · October 2023

There done before the evidence disappears. Pretty good investigative work.

About your post @Scot I would agree if WoW was abandonware but it is not.

Sovrath · October 2023

So basically using others' work for their own financial gain? Why am I not surprised. If I were Blizzard I'd go after them with guns a'blazin'.

AkalixFrost · October 2023

Hello! I'm here on behalf of the Turtle WoW team to address a few of these accusations.

GamePoints

GamePoints is a private-server friendly payment platform which allows us to use providers such as PayPal without encountering safety issues. They have existed since 2018 (predating us), and have no preexisting ties to Turtle prior to our partnership with them in 2022. The reason they are used by many private servers is their fair fees and communicative customer support has led to numerous servers recommending them to others.

Similar Websites

Due to the relatively niche nature of WoW private servers, there will inevitably be overlap with certain contributors. In this case, Turtle and a handful of other projects have commissioned the same web developers due to their relevant experience.

DDOS Attacks

Turtle WoW has never partook and will never participate in DDOS attacks against another project. We hold a strong belief in prioritizing the player--that's part of why we made our own server! This includes believing that our network isn't for everyone, and there's nothing wrong with players picking another project to call home. We would never attack another project in such a way, even if they are perceived as our "rival" -- it's simply scummy behavior, and a tremendous waste of resources, which we would never participate in.

Many projects will encounter DDOS attacks—we have weathered many such attacks, especially on our Asian network. However we believe these were the actions of an angry player, rather than another project.

Player-Centric Philosophy

We have always held and will always hold a player-centric philosophy on our network. As I mentioned previously, that includes accepting that our network isn’t for everyone. Hence why we strive to be as transparent as possible (this is part of my position at Turtle—communicating with the community. I’ll host an AMA at some point), and allow for things such as permanent account deletion for players who are concerned about their data.

Cross-Server Collusion

Many servers have in the past and will continue to share ideas and code with eachother. Our network is based on vMaNGOS, which is an open-sourced software, who’s lead maintainer is also an active contributor to Turtle WoW. Even if our core is not public, we still have shared code with other projects, and other projects have shared some of theirs with us. This sort of “goodwill” sharing of useful code or features is done out of our shared interest in furthering WoW emulation. Further, if another network opts to implement a similar idea or feature to one of ours, there are many reasons this could have occurred. Whether it be pure coincidence (more likely) or intentional copying (less likely), it's not something we have control over. These sorts of overlaps will naturally occur when there are multiple servers based on the same version of the game.

In Conclusion
If there is some sort of "Private Server Mafia," we are blissfully unaware of it's existence. Yes, there are friendships and connections between people involved on various projects, however this stems from a shared interest and passion for World of Warcraft emulation, not a desire for a monopolistic hold over private servers based on open-source software. Over the past 5 years, our team has grown to surpass 100 members, all with the same guiding philosophy. We want to provide the best experience we can, whether it’s for 100 players or 10,000, and we don’t appreciate the suggestion that we're just out for a quick payday or want to harm fellow emulation projects.

Best regards,

Akalix - Turtle WoW Team

PS:

If there actually is a mafia, pretty please invite me for the yacht party with Bobby Kottick. I can make a mean martini!

Dattelis · October 2023

Honestly, all these private servers have been doing similar for nearly a decade. People get what they pay for imo.

Gorwe · October 2023

Ooooh, drama!

Time for schaden!

Scot · October 2023

AkalixFrost said:

Hello! I'm here on behalf of the Turtle WoW team to address a few of these accusations.
...lots of text...
Akalix - Turtle WoW Team

PS:
If there actually is a mafia, pretty please invite me for the yacht party with Bobby Kottick. I can make a mean martini!

Welcome to the forums!

I am not sure anyone else used the term mafia, though that may have been implied?

Bobby is a malt whisky man in fact, martini's are only for guys who think they are James Bond.

Kyleran · October 2023

Scot said:

The question is, if they are only making money out of it how is that different from giving money to a studio? I am not saying they are on a par, a studio will be making content but maybe some of the people in charge of these private servers are also making content? I would be more concerned about who I am giving my credit card details too, even bearing in mind it is through third party banking software.

You might want to copy that thread to this one before it gets removed!

The studio owns the IP and it's likely being used without permission.

It's clear from the alleged staff member from Turtle WOW this endeavor is a full scale business (100+ staff) and not just a few altruistic hobbyists putting this out there for the "benefit" of gamers everywhere.

For all we know they are one of those shops who trick and imprison developers to come work for them.

Scot · October 2023

Kyleran said:

Scot said:

The question is, if they are only making money out of it how is that different from giving money to a studio? I am not saying they are on a par, a studio will be making content but maybe some of the people in charge of these private servers are also making content? I would be more concerned about who I am giving my credit card details too, even bearing in mind it is through third party banking software.

You might want to copy that thread to this one before it gets removed!

The studio owns the IP and it's likely being used without permission.

It's clear from the alleged staff member from Turtle WOW this endeavor is a full scale business (100+ staff) and not just a few altruistic hobbyists putting this out there for the "benefit" of gamers everywhere.

For all we know they are one of those shops who trick and imprison developers to come work for them.

If they are that bad then of course they need to be shut down. But when does covering operating costs become making a mint? As to the copyright I only agree with MMOs they have kept going, if they closed the MMO especially when it was in a decent shape like CoH I won't speak out against a private server, but I would hope some arrangement with the IP holder is made even if it takes a couple of years as it can do.

Kyleran · October 2023

Scot said:

Kyleran said:

Scot said:

The question is, if they are only making money out of it how is that different from giving money to a studio? I am not saying they are on a par, a studio will be making content but maybe some of the people in charge of these private servers are also making content? I would be more concerned about who I am giving my credit card details too, even bearing in mind it is through third party banking software.

You might want to copy that thread to this one before it gets removed!

The studio owns the IP and it's likely being used without permission.

It's clear from the alleged staff member from Turtle WOW this endeavor is a full scale business (100+ staff) and not just a few altruistic hobbyists putting this out there for the "benefit" of gamers everywhere.

For all we know they are one of those shops who trick and imprison developers to come work for them.

If they are that bad then of course they need to be shut down. But when does covering operating costs become making a mint? As to the copyright I only agree with MMOs they have kept going, if they closed the MMO especially when it was in a decent shape like CoH I won't speak out against a private server, but I would hope some arrangement with the IP holder is made even if it takes a couple of years as it can do.

But we are talking WOW here and with over 100 employees I'm thinking they might be covering more than normal operating expenses.

Scot · October 2023

Kyleran said:

Scot said:

Kyleran said:

Scot said:

The question is, if they are only making money out of it how is that different from giving money to a studio? I am not saying they are on a par, a studio will be making content but maybe some of the people in charge of these private servers are also making content? I would be more concerned about who I am giving my credit card details too, even bearing in mind it is through third party banking software.

You might want to copy that thread to this one before it gets removed!

The studio owns the IP and it's likely being used without permission.

It's clear from the alleged staff member from Turtle WOW this endeavor is a full scale business (100+ staff) and not just a few altruistic hobbyists putting this out there for the "benefit" of gamers everywhere.

For all we know they are one of those shops who trick and imprison developers to come work for them.

If they are that bad then of course they need to be shut down. But when does covering operating costs become making a mint? As to the copyright I only agree with MMOs they have kept going, if they closed the MMO especially when it was in a decent shape like CoH I won't speak out against a private server, but I would hope some arrangement with the IP holder is made even if it takes a couple of years as it can do.

But we are talking WOW here and with over 100 employees I'm thinking they might be covering more than normal operating expenses.

I agree but I was making a more general point about private servers, to my mind there should not be WoW private servers as the game is still running.

Theocritus · October 2023

Dattelis said:

Honestly, all these private servers have been doing similar for nearly a decade. People get what they pay for imo.

Thats the key...Dont pay for it and they go away

Dattelis · October 2023

Theocritus said:

Dattelis said:

Honestly, all these private servers have been doing similar for nearly a decade. People get what they pay for imo.

Thats the key...Dont pay for it and they go away

Its so simple, until you realize that many people do it regardless.

I can understand people floating towards private servers, but some people think they can 'exist' in them when is the wrong mindset to have. Just need to use them for 'fun' (or to make money I guess) and nothing more. Honestly, if the people making these servers can profit off of the people engaging in them then I'm all for it since they shouldn't exist any way. Not like there has to be honor amongst thieves.

FrodoFragins · October 2023

Sovrath said:

So basically using others' work for their own financial gain? Why am I not surprised. If I were Blizzard I'd go after them with guns a'blazin'.

The owners are in Russia and they host servers in countries that will ignore Blizzard. And if their server host does listen to Blizzard then they will relocate the servers. Blizzard can't win this war, but they can offer a better product than the pservers, if they are willing to start making new content.

I sub to the wowservers subreddit and so was aware of who runs Turtle. I never spent money there or the even more populated Warmane.

You aren't going to find a big pserver that doesn't have P2W and other shenanigans. But you also don't have to spend money on them to see all of the content. Turtle also offers a better experience than classic vanilla.

cheyane · October 2023

100+ staff wow that is a lot. I am sure they are not working for free. Why do they need so many?

Scot · October 2023

cheyane said:

100+ staff wow that is a lot. I am sure they are not working for free. Why do they need so many?

It does make you think someone is seeing this as a cash cow.

KnightFalz · November 2023

cheyane said:

100+ staff wow that is a lot. I am sure they are not working for free. Why do they need so many?

I don't know if they have 100+ staff members or if those involved are in fact paid for what they do.

What I do know is that they don't simply operate the game but also make a good deal of content for it.

Also, while one can voluntarily contribute to their operating cost one can play without doing so.

With a marketing plan of "you can pay or not, whatever" it's hard to imagine it being all that profitable but I'm only on the outside looking in so can't say for certain.

gameplayingmonkey · November 2023

Benefit of the doubt, why is the assumption that this 100+ person team are paid roles and not volunteers? Comparatively the mmo Planeshift has been running on volunteer work since 2002 and currently has a team size of about 25 and a player count less than 1,000 - I don't find it farfetched to think that a private server based on WoW (with a playerbase in the millions) is able to field 100 volunteers. For more perspective the Star Wars Galaxy Emulation (with a unique player login count of only 1,600) also has a team of 25, I cant seem to find any 'meet the team about me' page for other private servers like EQ P99.

I think a breakdown of the team would be more illuminating, are any/all contributors considered part of the 'team?'

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Turtle WoW private server exposed

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Turtle WoW private server exposed

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV