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Armor Slots, a New Perspective

EronakisEronakis Member UncommonPosts: 2,249
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
Traditionally, armor slots are universal to all classes. While universal armor slots are easier for development, what players are used too, I think it doesn't make much sense from an immersive perspective.


Classes that wear cloth won't have the same armor slots as a melee class. What is armor? Armor protects you from physical attacks. Cloth wearers are typically magic casters. They don't need physical mitigation.


Knights armor is more complex with many pieces, whereas a Wizard has minimal pieces.


Proposal

Melee and Magic Caster have unique slots dedicated to that archetype that make sense. They both have access to General Armor slots. Think of how the Character UI typically looks like. You have a left and right column with your character model in the middle. What if the Left Column are the General Slots and then the Right Column is used for your unique archetype slots?


General Slots

Head Slot
Neck Slot
Chest Slot
Waist Slot
Leg Slot
Wrist Slot
Hand Slot
Feet Slot


Melee Archetype Slots

Shoulder Slot
Sheath Slot -- For an extra weapon or ranged)
Layered Chest Slot -- Tabard, Chain Shirt, Tunic, Leather Shirt)
Back Slot -- Cape, Quiver, Satchel, Shield)


Magic Caster Archetype Slots

Pouch Slot  -- Holds Magical Item
Pocket Slot -- Holds a Magical Item
Ring Slot A
Ring Slot B


I think this could be an interesting re-approach for armor slots for players. You have the general slots that everyone has access too and then your unique slots.

I'd be interested in why or why not you like this idea. Or if you have an alternative idea? Thoughts?


Scot

Comments

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,973
    edited December 2023
    I can understand game placing limitations where you need skill to wear heavy armor or to use a type of weapon effectively in battle.

    But something like [Skill: Cape], or [Skill: Pouch attached to Waist] would be just ridiculous.
    Dibdabs
     
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    edited December 2023
    Not sure he mentioned needing a skill here?

    Gameplay wise these are slots for items which give you buffs. The developer then decides how many of these are wanted. Reasons for the slots tend to focus around clothing, armour and jewelry. Having different slots for different classes would work, your arcane types might fancy torcs or bracers etc. As long as there are the same number for all classes, otherwise you are forcing unnecessary balancing on the game.
    Eronakis
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,600
    edited December 2023
    Seems over complicated for nothing as all these restrictions can be built right into the gear itself.

    Also not sure what the goal is tbh since each class get 4 extra "gear" slots so who care what they are called?

    It just doesn't seem to be worth the UI coding hassle for something that essentially done on the gear itself, being there tends to be "caster gear" or melee gear or even mixes of both...

    If it's purely for immersion then it doesn't make sense cause nothing stop a caster from wearing chainmail and nothing really stops a melee guy from having pouches or rings...what makes more sense is that a melee guy might choose rings with different effects than say a caster would.

    I think the KISS rule applies here tbh.
    CogohiBrainy

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • DibdabsDibdabs Member RarePosts: 3,238
    None of that is my idea of "immersion".  If it's yours that's fine but personally it's too trivial for me to give a crap.
    CogohiBrainy
  • AngrakhanAngrakhan Member EpicPosts: 1,750
    I can tell you from a developer standpoint this kind of design leads to bugs in your code due to the fact you now have to have all these if/else or case statements for an ability going against a given target. I assume the NPCs are also going to have these variances in gear. Anyway what you end up with is an ability will work correctly against a melee but do something unexpected against a caster or vice versa. You need to ask yourself if the complexity is worth the code maintenance because this actually costs you dollars in paying developers to track this stuff down, and no it's not realistic that it's going to be done perfectly the first time. In the history of MMOs that's happened exactly never.  It never falls neatly into the realm of "all you gotta do is..." Every time I've heard that in my career there's been weeks or months worth of LOE behind that statement as we start discovering all the detailed corner cases that weren't considered when the project started.

    Also I think it makes hybrids problematic. What about a ranger class that uses a bow but also casts spells, or a paladin, etc? This design lends itself into pigeon-holing your classes into only a caster or only a melee, and you're going to get pushback from the fantasy game fans on that because hybrids are very common in the genre.
    KidRiskEronakisBrainy
  • EronakisEronakis Member UncommonPosts: 2,249
    Angrakhan said:
    I can tell you from a developer standpoint this kind of design leads to bugs in your code due to the fact you now have to have all these if/else or case statements for an ability going against a given target. I assume the NPCs are also going to have these variances in gear. Anyway what you end up with is an ability will work correctly against a melee but do something unexpected against a caster or vice versa. You need to ask yourself if the complexity is worth the code maintenance because this actually costs you dollars in paying developers to track this stuff down, and no it's not realistic that it's going to be done perfectly the first time. In the history of MMOs that's happened exactly never.  It never falls neatly into the realm of "all you gotta do is..." Every time I've heard that in my career there's been weeks or months worth of LOE behind that statement as we start discovering all the detailed corner cases that weren't considered when the project started.

    Also I think it makes hybrids problematic. What about a ranger class that uses a bow but also casts spells, or a paladin, etc? This design lends itself into pigeon-holing your classes into only a caster or only a melee, and you're going to get pushback from the fantasy game fans on that because hybrids are very common in the genre.

    This is exactly one of my concerns of the proposed system in regards to maintaining code and code bloat. Coming up with alternatives and creative ways to achieve something is apart of that design process. Good design also considers development resources and development time.

    I would say that abilities are not attached to armor slots in the system I proposed. The archetype slots would just be unique perks for that archetype. Like having a Sheath slot would make more sense for someone fighting in close range with physical combat, even if they can cast some spells. Why would a Wizard need a secondary or a tertiary weapon when their weapon is the magic they cast.

    The armor slot system I proposed is to help things make more sense from an aesthetics stand point. The archetype slots would just give unique bonuses for classes that just wear cloth. The system integrates hybrids as well. Ranger would wear leather armor, but wouldn't wear cloth. They would have no need for magical items per say. The intention was to just make that more unique to a certain extent. Just something I was conjuring up in consideration.
  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 3,017
    I like how City of Heroes does it, there is no armor, and no weapons. Hence, no slots.

    All you have are your powers, and you can slot them however you want. For DPS, you typically add DMG and ACCuracy.  For an armor type power, there are various resists, etc, that you can slot.

    But no armor pieces, and no weapons to equip.

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,973
    Scot said:
    Not sure he mentioned needing a skill here?
    I didn't mean the game would literally need to have skill.

    But I think for immersion stuff like this needs some explanation. It's easy enough to explain away that a warrior can fight in heavy armor because he has training and strength to do it, whereas a pure caster type can't. The devs don't even need to write a lore piece to explain it because it's intuitive that might be one of the differences between a warrior and pure caster.

    Whereas if you make the rogue unable to fight wearing a pouch on his waist, it's counter-intuitive. People wouldn't understand why rogue is unable to fight while wearing a pouch, and even if the devs wrote a lore piece to explain it it would likely become something inane.

    Stuff like casters being unable to wear heavy armor or use two-handed warhammers makes sense. Stuff like rogues being unable to wear a pouch and casters being unable to wear a cape does not make sense.
    Scot
     
  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 2,163
    Vrika said:
    Scot said:
    Not sure he mentioned needing a skill here?
    I didn't mean the game would literally need to have skill.

    But I think for immersion stuff like this needs some explanation. It's easy enough to explain away that a warrior can fight in heavy armor because he has training and strength to do it, whereas a pure caster type can't. The devs don't even need to write a lore piece to explain it because it's intuitive that might be one of the differences between a warrior and pure caster.

    Whereas if you make the rogue unable to fight wearing a pouch on his waist, it's counter-intuitive. People wouldn't understand why rogue is unable to fight while wearing a pouch, and even if the devs wrote a lore piece to explain it it would likely become something inane.

    Stuff like casters being unable to wear heavy armor or use two-handed warhammers makes sense. Stuff like rogues being unable to wear a pouch and casters being unable to wear a cape does not make sense.
    I dont think most people even read lore pieces. So if the devs wrote it or not doesnt even matter. So if a dev has to write up lore pieces to make sense. Then imagine if the vast majority never read that, because that is what is happening LOL.
  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 2,163
    Alot of work for very little payoff, Devs have way more important things to do, like combat tactics, better mob AI, better in game loot etc...
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    I would say get rid of slots altogether and just have a set of runes. And not on everything. We can also get rid of extra jewelry. It’s ridiculous that everyone has to wear earrings.
    Scot
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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    edited December 2023
    Sovrath said:
    I would say get rid of slots altogether and just have a set of runes. And not on everything. We can also get rid of extra jewelry. It’s ridiculous that everyone has to wear earrings.
    and rings, and bracers and torcs and tiaras. :)
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