Hey guys! Can you believe it's been nearly a decade since I asked this question?
I am wondering if Pantheon: ROTF is a finished product I can pay for and license and play with my friends now.
If you are the OP, why not use your old account? But yes its been a long time.
I am not sure, it is the same username and password. I think this was the last thread I posted before I stopped using the sign like 1 bazillion years ago
The real question for me is if it is an intentional scam or merely a scam of incompetency.
Let us not forget...
EQ took how long to make? (3 years I think Brad had mentioned, with around 11 people) From scratch, with much less "helper" technology (ie pre-set development kits, streamlined languages and libraries, tools, historical knowledge to pull from, etc...).
Apparently with all todays modern ability, we are left to believe that it should take this long to complete such a venture?
Where are they? Pre-Alpha... still?
hmm...
Everquest had Sony backing it. This game is struggling to get funding. I don't think it is a scam but it may fail that is for sure.
Welcome to open game development where every gamer turns into armchair developer and points how easy it would be if only they did this and that...
As if there was a formula to simply pump out cool mmorpgs every X years...
My ExCitMeNt iS DyiNg bEcAusE iT hArD tO wAit fOr a ViDeo GaMe
You are right Babs but I am still betting on Pantheon coming out before Star Citizen.
The problem comes in when the developers themselves say "we'll release it by this date", or "we'll be done in x time", and then miss it by a huge margin. We're not professional game developers, but *they* are. Or they are supposed to be.
Once they miss the target by several thousand percent, you begin to wonder: is this a scam, or are they simply incompetent?
Thats not Pantheon, the only dates they have given is targets for when the next stage of development is.
They did state that target for release was late 2017 some years ago.
I'm pretty sure someone can find the reference if they search.
Of course you need to defend this because by this metric Star Citizen looks like an incompetent joke as well.
It isn't my fault developers are incompetent liars when it comes to time frames regarding their games. Times frames that even after this long they just won't/can't touch. The goal posts have been moved so many times the net is no longer even relevant.
By that logic every big studio is incompetent since they all have projects that take a long time to make.
If it takes a long time it's because it'a vapourware and dev's are incompeteny when it releases early it's a cash grab and dev's are lazy lol
That's why studios thinj only way to deal with the ArmChair Developers is treat them like mushrooms. Ignore them and leave them in the dark. and that's what most dev's do. Unfortunately crowdfunded studios don't have that option so here we are.
Estimates are not set in stone and neither game development is a straight road. The only constant is change. Embrace it and you'll have a much easier time avoiding the trap of thinking you knows better than professionals while sounding like a jaded old fart. Unless that's where your confort zone is nowadays.
The difference of course is that a big company has actual timelines that they need to justify to the people paying their salary. And in some cases, when the incompetence is discovered those teams are removed and or the game is shelved so as not to throw good money after bad money. Even big companies like Blizzard (Titan) make these kinds of decisions.
So what you suggest? That teams abandon games whenever they take more time than initially planned? How's that an improvement instead of letting teams develop their games at their own pace instead of canceling or burning them with crunch to apease some arbitrary date?
Gamers have the easiest part of the deal, support whatever projects of your liking and then go on with your life playing whatever you were playing before as normal. Shouldn't be that hard.
I didn't suggest anything. I pointed out that companies that have literally invested tens of millions of dollars into a project have taken a look at progress/lack of progress, and decided it was better to cut their losses instead of tossing more money into a bad project.
As far as "arbitrary date", see these things are not usually arbitrary. A budget is developed and that budget is based on a timeline and resource expenditure. When you realize you are going to go past that date, a rational thing to do is to sit down and estimate how far you are off from that date and what does that do to your budget. And are technical obstacles going to require a change to scope or maybe even make the game impossible to deliver.
How's that any different from every game company ever! It's like the very nature of game development, some work out some don't, all studios go through that in some way.
How will you budget and base a timeline about something you've never done before? How do you predict technical challenges before attempting the tech part? You ballpark to get the thing going and then adapt as you go. That's it. Just cause some gamers don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong and that companies can avoid it. It's part of the process and having a crowdfunded/open development project means we get to see it.
It's not like people were forced to put money upfront for any project. It must and should be a conscious decision by an adult that understands what crowdfunding games involves.
One may not like or care about the part of actual game development but it is what every game goes through in some form or another.
The difference is that companies like Blizzard didn't ask anyone (players or consumers) to help foot the bill for Diablo IV, for example. They developed it on their own time and on their own dime.
The situation with these crowdfunded games is totally different. You are not just wanting on development. You're waiting for an investment you have already made to pan out.
I don't know about you, but I'd rather game development not become a like the stock market.
There is so much copium going on around this game, Lol.
Of course you need to defend this because by this metric Star Citizen looks like an incompetent joke as well.
It isn't my fault developers are incompetent liars when it comes to time frames regarding their games. Times frames that even after this long they just won't/can't touch. The goal posts have been moved so many times the net is no longer even relevant.
By that logic every big studio is incompetent since they all have projects that take a long time to make.
If it takes a long time it's because it'a vapourware and dev's are incompeteny when it releases early it's a cash grab and dev's are lazy lol
That's why studios thinj only way to deal with the ArmChair Developers is treat them like mushrooms. Ignore them and leave them in the dark. and that's what most dev's do. Unfortunately crowdfunded studios don't have that option so here we are.
Estimates are not set in stone and neither game development is a straight road. The only constant is change. Embrace it and you'll have a much easier time avoiding the trap of thinking you knows better than professionals while sounding like a jaded old fart. Unless that's where your confort zone is nowadays.
The difference of course is that a big company has actual timelines that they need to justify to the people paying their salary. And in some cases, when the incompetence is discovered those teams are removed and or the game is shelved so as not to throw good money after bad money. Even big companies like Blizzard (Titan) make these kinds of decisions.
So what you suggest? That teams abandon games whenever they take more time than initially planned? How's that an improvement instead of letting teams develop their games at their own pace instead of canceling or burning them with crunch to apease some arbitrary date?
Gamers have the easiest part of the deal, support whatever projects of your liking and then go on with your life playing whatever you were playing before as normal. Shouldn't be that hard.
I didn't suggest anything. I pointed out that companies that have literally invested tens of millions of dollars into a project have taken a look at progress/lack of progress, and decided it was better to cut their losses instead of tossing more money into a bad project.
As far as "arbitrary date", see these things are not usually arbitrary. A budget is developed and that budget is based on a timeline and resource expenditure. When you realize you are going to go past that date, a rational thing to do is to sit down and estimate how far you are off from that date and what does that do to your budget. And are technical obstacles going to require a change to scope or maybe even make the game impossible to deliver.
How's that any different from every game company ever! It's like the very nature of game development, some work out some don't, all studios go through that in some way.
How will you budget and base a timeline about something you've never done before? How do you predict technical challenges before attempting the tech part? You ballpark to get the thing going and then adapt as you go. That's it. Just cause some gamers don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong and that companies can avoid it. It's part of the process and having a crowdfunded/open development project means we get to see it.
It's not like people were forced to put money upfront for any project. It must and should be a conscious decision by an adult that understands what crowdfunding games involves.
One may not like or care about the part of actual game development but it is what every game goes through in some form or another.
The difference is that companies like Blizzard didn't ask anyone (players or consumers) to help foot the bill for Diablo IV, for example. They developed it on their own time and on their own dime.
The situation with these crowdfunded games is totally different. You are not just wanting on development. You're waiting for an investment you have already made to pan out.
I don't know about you, but I'd rather game development not become a like the stock market.
There is so much copium going on around this game, Lol.
The thing is, nobody is forced to crowdfund anything just like private investors aren't forced put money into Blizzard or any other ventures.
Doing so implies that people know the risks and conditions of doing so. If they don't do their homework and understand what they are backing, it's on them.
If the game developer says they will release in 2016, and now they are about 8 years late with no release, is that a scam? Or just total incompetence?
In the world of real business, anybody who misses their prediction by that much would have been fired years ago. So it tends to weed out the incompetents. In my field of chip design, if you are 8 years late to the market, you will be laughed out of existence. Imagine if Intel or AMD announced a new chip and say it will come out next year. And then 8 years later, they still haven't released it.
A scam would require intent to deceive, whereas total incompetence is just that, not deception. In either case, I think it disqualifies the developer from being taken seriously.
Does it matter whether it is incompetence or deception? Not to the consumer. It might not even matter to the investors, since in both cases there is no product to sell at the end of the day.
Comments
I'm pretty sure someone can find the reference if they search.
The situation with these crowdfunded games is totally different. You are not just wanting on development. You're waiting for an investment you have already made to pan out.
I don't know about you, but I'd rather game development not become a like the stock market.
There is so much copium going on around this game, Lol.
Doing so implies that people know the risks and conditions of doing so. If they don't do their homework and understand what they are backing, it's on them.
You cannot play it.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.