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Ashes of Creation CEO Reflects on 2023 and Acknowledges the 'Challenges' in the Industry | MMORPG.co

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  • Phoenix_HawkPhoenix_Hawk Member UncommonPosts: 298
    edited January 1
    Nanfoodle said:
    Phoenix_Hawk said:. 


    I'm not following their supposed development, as near as I can see, they aren't trying to make a game, they just want to make money from selling the dream of a "perfect" game, and that's something I don't like. I will comment in threads about these plagues on the industry all I like, and there's not a thing you can do about that.
    Hnm that's called pre-judging. When you don't not what makes up something and you decide who or what someone or something is. 

    Back up, look at the past 4 or 5 updates on Ashes. Now that they have upgraded to UE5 the pace of what they have done in 2023 has been impressive.

    As for asking for money. You don't need to back the game, you can just wait for it to come out and play it. Anyone backing the game will have no advantage over you playing it day one. IS is just selling cosmetics and access. 
    Have they released the game? No. Are they seemingly even remotely close to releasing the game? No. Are they asking for money from players already? Yes.

    There's no prejudging here, that's what they're doing. If you have only so much money, and you won't get much, if any more until you finish it, that WILL light a fire under your ass, and make you be more efficient in how you spend that money. Although if you can just keep pulling in an endless supply of money, then guess what, now you can just draaaaaaaaaaaaaag it out as long as you want.

    There's also the matter of how as far as I know, they only started that cosmetic shop thing in 2021. Reasonably speaking, the reason for that was as their accountants came around, and told them they need more money coming in on a regular basis to keep things going. Now what do you suppose happens when their accountants come around again, to tell them that the cosmetics shop isn't cutting it anymore? I absolutely can see them selling other stuff in time.

    Yet again, the Star Citizen true believers are also always really impressed over how much progress its devs have made, so you just keep sounding more, and more like them with every post.

    I wouldn't play it, it sounds like a horrible excuse of a game, that will likely fall flat on its face once the novelty wears off for most people.




    Babuinix said:

    You couldn't have missed the point by more if you tried. It's not an issue of a game taking a long time, it's an issue of asking for money from the end user so very, very far away from its delivery date.


    How's that an issue? Kickstart / Crowdfunding campaigns are just pitches for the masses. Nobody is forced to pledge for them.
    As I said previously, I think crowd funding was a bad idea to begin with, this sort of nonsense is just many times worse. There's far too much risk involved in even normal crowdfunding, with government regulators having to play catch up to try to reign in these sort of things to some degree.

    Then no body is "forcing" people to blow all their money on gambling, including money they don't have, but people still do.








    The main reason so many crowdfunded things keep failing, is here's these people, with BIG ideas, and no experience. Defenders of Ashes, and Star Citizen keep talking about how long these big game projects tend to take, so it's all completely normal. Great, but that's by experienced teams, these guys haven't done this before.

    Chris Roberts never worked on a game of that scale before, hadn't run a gaming company before, and had been out of game development for many years. Then the situation for the Ashes head is even worse, as since he just talked about being an avid gamer, not about related work experience in his profile, it stands to reason he has absolutely no relevant experience.

    If you want to work on some big expensive project, then prove yourself first with smaller more manageable ones. If those go well, then you keep building experience, taking on bigger projects, and build more capital to fund larger projects. Why should they just skip that whole process, and jump to the biggest, most expensive possible project?

    You guys need to be a special kind of stupid to want to fund these things. Laws to prevent the sort of nonsense they're pulling should be made to protect you idiots, from yourselves.
    Post edited by Phoenix_Hawk on
    TyidalBabuinixChampie
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,875
    I would love to see all the haters make a pledge they won't play games they bash :) 
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593
    Nanfoodle said:
    I would love to see all the haters make a pledge they won't play games they bash :) 
    There are some games I won't play.  Others I will. 
    For Ashes, I won't BUY the game but Stephen owes me money, so IF it ever releases, and seems good then I will use some of Stephen's money to buy the game and play it. But the man will never get a penny of my cash because he seems like a total slimeball that I wouldn't trust to wash my car.


    PS:  "Haters" is such a childish term.  How about realist?  Plus it's kind of two-faced to try and make realists promise to never play a game on the off-chance they are wrong one of these days, but you get to be wrong over and over and over again with no repercussions? You get to support outright scammers, incompetent hucksters, and blatant liars but the one time you are "right" you are going to claim some kind of exclusivity to play the game and ignore all the prior false prophecies? For the record I 100% expect Ashes of creation to release as a game. That doesn't mean it will be any good.  But more importantly it doesn't excuse the bad behavior of the developer or the countless others with similar pitches.  The ends do not, and never will,  justify the means.


    Champie

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,875
    Nanfoodle said:
    I would love to see all the haters make a pledge they won't play games they bash :) 
    There are some games I won't play.  Others I will. 
    For Ashes, I won't BUY the game but Stephen owes me money, so IF it ever releases, and seems good then I will use some of Stephen's money to buy the game and play it. But the man will never get a penny of my cash because he seems like a total slimeball that I wouldn't trust to wash my car.


    PS:  "Haters" is such a childish term.  How about realist?  Plus it's kind of two-faced to try and make realists promise to never play a game on the off-chance they are wrong one of these days, but you get to be wrong over and over and over again with no repercussions? You get to support outright scammers, incompetent hucksters, and blatant liars but the one time you are "right" you are going to claim some kind of exclusivity to play the game and ignore all the prior false prophecies? For the record I 100% expect Ashes of creation to release as a game. That doesn't mean it will be any good.  But more importantly it doesn't excuse the bad behavior of the developer or the countless others with similar pitches.  The ends do not, and never will,  justify the means.


    Haters is just a common term sorry if it offends :) Who says someone can't be wrong? What damage have I done by being excited about game development or the desire to discuss what I find interesting? (let's call them instead) "Game bashers" on the other hand turn every topic down to the same bashing topic in every thread. Making ever thread to the same drudgery. Stopping conversations from ever moving forward. 
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593
    Nanfoodle said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    I would love to see all the haters make a pledge they won't play games they bash :) 
    There are some games I won't play.  Others I will. 
    For Ashes, I won't BUY the game but Stephen owes me money, so IF it ever releases, and seems good then I will use some of Stephen's money to buy the game and play it. But the man will never get a penny of my cash because he seems like a total slimeball that I wouldn't trust to wash my car.


    PS:  "Haters" is such a childish term.  How about realist?  Plus it's kind of two-faced to try and make realists promise to never play a game on the off-chance they are wrong one of these days, but you get to be wrong over and over and over again with no repercussions? You get to support outright scammers, incompetent hucksters, and blatant liars but the one time you are "right" you are going to claim some kind of exclusivity to play the game and ignore all the prior false prophecies? For the record I 100% expect Ashes of creation to release as a game. That doesn't mean it will be any good.  But more importantly it doesn't excuse the bad behavior of the developer or the countless others with similar pitches.  The ends do not, and never will,  justify the means.


    Haters is just a common term sorry if it offends :) Who says someone can't be wrong? What damage have I done by being excited about game development or the desire to discuss what I find interesting? (let's call them instead) "Game bashers" on the other hand turn every topic down to the same bashing topic in every thread. Making ever thread to the same drudgery. Stopping conversations from ever moving forward. 
    You say stopping conversations from ever moving forward.  I say, reminding game-hypers about the actual facts. 

    I would say the damage you have done is by encouraging and excusing bad behavior all in the hopes that someday you will have a game.  The ends will NEVER justify the means and every single time you gloss over the pathetic ineptitude (at best) or blatant lies (at worst) of game after game and company after company, you simply encourage more to follow that path.

    For the record-  In the last 3 months (maybe longer?) there have been a total of 2 Ashes of Creation threads made in the Ashes forum on here.  Both started by you.  One to talk about your Alpha pledge and one to talk about the Caravan system.  Not a single so called hater popped in and "bashed' the game.  Of course, not many people responded at all.  So maybe stop with the hyperbole.  On the other hand,  when a News Article like THIS one, LITERALLY mentions the announcement that they will stop selling pre-orders, I am going to discuss that.  It's not "bashing" nor "hating", it's called a reality check.  The game WILL sell more pre-order packs between now and launch.  Though they may call it something different.  


    So when you want to talk about something specific with Ashes, go make a thread.  If it gets taken off topic then remind folks to stay on target. 


    Happy New Year!


    Champie

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    Maybe time for a...

    Keep Calm And Carry On Posting Into The New Year! :)
    NanfoodleChampie
  • Haki88Haki88 Member UncommonPosts: 233
    Ashes of Creation = Biggest game .jpg seller of all time!
    ScotChampie
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,875
    Scot said:
    Maybe time for a...

    Keep Calm And Carry On Posting Into The New Year! :)
    Think it's time to take a break again from this site. Every time there is an article and I get excited to discuss it, it's just the same pile on of the same regurgitated conversation. As I have said in the past, there are many here I respec and will miss them. Peace out. 
    SensaiMadBomber13Champie
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    edited January 1
    Nanfoodle said:
    Scot said:
    Maybe time for a...

    Keep Calm And Carry On Posting Into The New Year! :)
    Think it's time to take a break again from this site. Every time there is an article and I get excited to discuss it, it's just the same pile on of the same regurgitated conversation. As I have said in the past, there are many here I respec and will miss them. Peace out. 
    See you again later in the fall then.


    Post edited by Kyleran on

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • caalemcaalem Member UncommonPosts: 310
    It took 2 years to make Ultima Online using worse technology. If we work backwards and apply modern game development cycles, EverQuest wouldn't have been released until after WoW's Burning Crusade expansion already came out. Just think on that for a moment!

    The amount of excuses gamers are willing to make for developers unable to do their job properly is ridiculous, while game developers want the world to think they're the only people who are expected to meet deadlines.
    KyleranChampie
  • MadBomber13MadBomber13 Member UncommonPosts: 133
    Nanfoodle said:
    Scot said:
    Maybe time for a...

    Keep Calm And Carry On Posting Into The New Year! :)
    Think it's time to take a break again from this site. Every time there is an article and I get excited to discuss it, it's just the same pile on of the same regurgitated conversation. As I have said in the past, there are many here I respec and will miss them. Peace out. 
    Maybe think about the way you come across and the way you talk to others you don't agree with and the conversations would go better? Just a thought... 
    KyleranSensaiChampie
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    Nanfoodle said:
    Scot said:
    Maybe time for a...

    Keep Calm And Carry On Posting Into The New Year! :)
    Think it's time to take a break again from this site. Every time there is an article and I get excited to discuss it, it's just the same pile on of the same regurgitated conversation. As I have said in the past, there are many here I respec and will miss them. Peace out. 
    We do bang on at times, that's gamers for you and the passion you talked about works every which way. Just don't take it too seriously, after all it is only a game, we all lose sight of that so often.
    KyleranChampie
  • PuffpuffpassssPuffpuffpassss Member UncommonPosts: 32
    edited January 9
    IceAge said:
    Star Citizen 2.0

    Except you can buy star citizen and play it right now for $45. Even if you dropped $50k you're not playing AOC.
    KyleranChampie
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    IceAge said:
    Star Citizen 2.0

    Except you can buy star citizen and play it right now for $45. Even if you dropped $50k you're not playing AOC.
    Nor are you playing SQ42 right now no matter how much you pledged.

     :) 
    MadBomber13ChampieValdemarJ

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 3,017
    edited January 9
    There was a saying in Computer Science that you only succeed on your third try.

    The first one you don't know what you are doing, and you fail. I would put Ashes into this category.

    The second try you think you know what to do, and you try to do too much. And then fail. I would put Star Citizen into this category.

    The third time you know what you are doing, and you also know to do just the minimum to get the job done.

    That's why you want someone in charge that has previously failed, and has learned their lessons.
    ChampieKyleran

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593
    olepi said:
    There was a saying in Computer Science that you only succeed on your third try.

    The first one you don't know what you are doing, and you fail. I would put Ashes into this category.

    The second try you think you know what to do, and you try to do too much. And then fail. I would put Star Citizen into this category.

    The third time you know what you are doing, and you also know to do just the minimum to get the job done.

    That's why you want someone in charge that has previously failed, and has learned their lessons.
    And THIS is why someday people will give Jeromy Walsh money again...


    Kylerancameltosis

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MadBomber13MadBomber13 Member UncommonPosts: 133
    olepi said:
    There was a saying in Computer Science that you only succeed on your third try.

    The first one you don't know what you are doing, and you fail. I would put Ashes into this category.

    The second try you think you know what to do, and you try to do too much. And then fail. I would put Star Citizen into this category.

    The third time you know what you are doing, and you also know to do just the minimum to get the job done.

    That's why you want someone in charge that has previously failed, and has learned their lessons.
    And THIS is why someday people will give Jeromy Walsh money again...


    Or maybe don't charge/take money for the first two tries? :) 
  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 3,017
    olepi said:
    There was a saying in Computer Science that you only succeed on your third try.

    The first one you don't know what you are doing, and you fail. I would put Ashes into this category.

    The second try you think you know what to do, and you try to do too much. And then fail. I would put Star Citizen into this category.

    The third time you know what you are doing, and you also know to do just the minimum to get the job done.

    That's why you want someone in charge that has previously failed, and has learned their lessons.
    And THIS is why someday people will give Jeromy Walsh money again...


    Or maybe don't charge/take money for the first two tries? :) 

    The trick for the consumer is to figure out what try the devs are on.

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,593
    olepi said:
    olepi said:
    There was a saying in Computer Science that you only succeed on your third try.

    The first one you don't know what you are doing, and you fail. I would put Ashes into this category.

    The second try you think you know what to do, and you try to do too much. And then fail. I would put Star Citizen into this category.

    The third time you know what you are doing, and you also know to do just the minimum to get the job done.

    That's why you want someone in charge that has previously failed, and has learned their lessons.
    And THIS is why someday people will give Jeromy Walsh money again...


    Or maybe don't charge/take money for the first two tries? :) 

    The trick for the consumer is to figure out what try the devs are on.
    Do you have examples of developers who failed the first two times and succeeded on the 3rd?

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 3,017
    olepi said:
    olepi said:
    There was a saying in Computer Science that you only succeed on your third try.

    The first one you don't know what you are doing, and you fail. I would put Ashes into this category.

    The second try you think you know what to do, and you try to do too much. And then fail. I would put Star Citizen into this category.

    The third time you know what you are doing, and you also know to do just the minimum to get the job done.

    That's why you want someone in charge that has previously failed, and has learned their lessons.
    And THIS is why someday people will give Jeromy Walsh money again...


    Or maybe don't charge/take money for the first two tries? :) 

    The trick for the consumer is to figure out what try the devs are on.
    Do you have examples of developers who failed the first two times and succeeded on the 3rd?

    Maybe No Man's Sky. They were widely seen as a failure at release, but kept going and finally have a really good game.

    Usually two failures is enough to stop a developer, so in the gaming world at least I don't have many examples. Maybe New World in it's next iteration.

    In chip design and CAD software it is probably more common, although the problem is still the same. The guy is hired and says he can do it in 6 months, and takes 2 years. On the next project he says 2 years, but a new guy says HE can do it in 6 months, so they fire the old one hire the new one and it takes 2 years again. Repeat.
    Kyleran

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


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