It's definitely not cheating by most definitions. He did content available to everyone that didn't impact any other players or the economy.
That isn't what defines an exploit. The user exploited an unintended flaw in the system for personal gain that was outside the design intention of studio. It absolutely does affect other players, but we can't necessarily quantify how wide or deeply that is.
Games have rules and boundaries that apply to everyone.
People with integrity report issues that can be exploited. People without integrity use the exploit for their own gain.
As for the guy who got the record first 85, I'll file that along with all the other firsts in video games that I recall over my 25 years of gaming. I'll file it alongside.. uh... there was that one time... um... the guy who... eh... oh nevermind.
As for the guy who got the record first 85, I'll file that along with all the other firsts in video games that I recall over my 25 years of gaming. I'll file it alongside.. uh... there was that one time... um... the guy who... eh... oh nevermind.
Well I mean cats and dogs have beef so no surprise there xD
As for the guy who got the record first 85, I'll file that along with all the other firsts in video games that I recall over my 25 years of gaming. I'll file it alongside.. uh... there was that one time... um... the guy who... eh... oh nevermind.
Well I mean cats and dogs have beef so no surprise there xD
As I often told my children when they said they hated me, "Good, you are supposed to."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Somewhere in the world someone is impressed by this achievement.
I just stopped by to mock and smirk.
Somehow I feel it's on the same level as have 43,000+ posts on mmorpg.com (most of which I assume are as inane as this one.)
But I guess I'm probably wrong, because someone with forty-three THOUSAND posts on mmorpg.com will clap back with something like "one post troll noob" or "you made an account just to say that so you're worse than me" *huehuehue adjusts fedora and adds emoji while sweating profusely*
Naw, no clapback. But this might help your burning itching frustration
Wow very original. My 74 yo dad makes jokes about preparation H. I guess you both missed the memo that those stopped being clever or funny about thirty years ago. Oh well
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's definitely not cheating by most definitions. He did content available to everyone that didn't impact any other players or the economy.
That isn't what defines an exploit. The user exploited an unintended flaw in the system for personal gain that was outside the design intention of studio. It absolutely does affect other players, but we can't necessarily quantify how wide or deeply that is.
Games have rules and boundaries that apply to everyone.
People with integrity report issues that can be exploited. People without integrity use the exploit for their own gain.
I see where Frodo is coming from about "not effecting players or the economy" but what he is forgetting is that by being max level this guy is effecting the game. He will win in PvP over those of lower level, he will incite players to get to max level as quickly as possible with dubious ways to do so if they can. There are degrees of how badly players are cheating, but this is still cheating.
It's definitely not cheating by most definitions. He did content available to everyone that didn't impact any other players or the economy.
That isn't what defines an exploit. The user exploited an unintended flaw in the system for personal gain that was outside the design intention of studio. It absolutely does affect other players, but we can't necessarily quantify how wide or deeply that is.
Games have rules and boundaries that apply to everyone.
People with integrity report issues that can be exploited. People without integrity use the exploit for their own gain.
The problem with this approach is we cannot really leave the interpretation of the studio's designs to the players - both the player doing the content and those judging him. Because exactly like it is happening here, some will say it was an exploit, others will say it was not. Some cases are clearer (duping bugs are universally considered exploits), this is not, unless the company publicly announces it as such.
After Blizzard tuned the content, there is now a different optimal path (it eould just take slightly more time to max lvl). Is this now an exploit?
Sirlin wrote a lot about this in his (brilliant imo) guide:
Mysteriously, some games do expect the player to divine the will of the
designer, and expect him to adhere to a set of behavioral rules on top
of the actual rules of the game. This is the fundamentally flawed
concept embraced by most massively-multiplayer online games. Consider
World of Warcraft as an example. In a town, you can go on rooftops and
you can fight against other players, but you can’t fight other players
while on rooftops, or you’ll receive a warning. (Actually, this was
totally legal before 3/11/2005 at 9:44 PM PST, but not legal after.) You
can kill the same monster all day every day to “farm” in-game money for
yourself (in fact you practically have to), but you can’t farm “too
much” or you’re labeled as a gold-farmer and banned. If you break your
line of sight with a monster, he often has trouble getting to you, which
allows your friends to kill him much more easily. Smart play or grounds
for suspension? Answer: grounds for suspension. If a monster is chasing
you, you can go into a lake where he can’t follow and wait for him to
give up. Smart play or grounds for suspension? Answer: that one’s smart
play. The complex web of made-up rules is not unlike the shackling
self-imposed rulebook of the scrub.
Tzervo, this streamer guy knew exactly what he was doing as he switched from one exploit to another as Blizzard closed them down. He did not have to "divine the will of the designer, and expect him to adhere to a set of behavioral rules on top of the actual rules of the game."
Players will always go to the most rewarding spots. If they are streaming it they are not keeping it to themselves.
If Blizzard felt they were cheating they would have at least sent an in game warning not to continue. They instead just hotfixed what he found and let him do his thing as it was THEIR mistake.
If what someone else in the thread said is true, this occurred when cata launched as well. Which makes it doubly funny.
I find this "exploit" less problematic than the one used for classic launch where players could change layers by grouping to get an area with mobs already there. Rather than waiting for a respawn in their own layer/shard.
It's definitely not cheating by most definitions. He did content available to everyone that didn't impact any other players or the economy.
That isn't what defines an exploit. The user exploited an unintended flaw in the system for personal gain that was outside the design intention of studio. It absolutely does affect other players, but we can't necessarily quantify how wide or deeply that is.
Games have rules and boundaries that apply to everyone.
People with integrity report issues that can be exploited. People without integrity use the exploit for their own gain.
All cheats are exploits but not all exploits are cheats. This exploit is not a cheat. Like at all.
And why is this considered an exploit? See the snippet from my quotes above. Am I missing something? What rule did he break?
From the original article: "After running some spells and buffs math, LMGD finds the next good thing that max-level chasers need to win a race like this – a way to absolutely exploit the system."
These were exploits, that's why Blizzard kept fixing them, that's the "rule" he broke. Since when do gamers need to be told, "using exploits is breaking the rules"?
And why is this considered an exploit? See the snippet from my quotes above. Am I missing something? What rule did he break?
From the original article: "After running some spells and buffs math, LMGD finds the next good thing that max-level chasers need to win a race like this – a way to absolutely exploit the system."
These were exploits, that's why Blizzard kept fixing them, that's the "rule" he broke. Since when do gamers need to be told, "using exploits is breaking the rules"?
That's no rule, that's a random writer calling a strategy an exploit (he even slips and calls it a strategy elsewhere).
Blizzard fine tuned the levelling with its fixes and that's fine (all live games do that all the time without labelling the changes as exploits), which means his strategy is no longer optimal. And I repeat, would the new optimal be now "the exploit"? Are we not allowed to optimize? And who decides it? You or that writer? Please.
And you "assume the sale" by saying "Since when do gamers need to be told, "using exploits is breaking the rules"?".
All I see is a guy optimizing their levelling experience through choices and help from team members. I see no rule being broken.
Is this some new millennial math or something? Getting to 85 in 3 hours is not optimized leveling due to insight into the game world. It's amazing the mental gymnastics people will perform to not admit something is wrong. Knowingly exploiting a bug or design failure is cheating, full stop. Let me guess, you think soaking isn't sex either, right?
And why is this considered an exploit? See the snippet from my quotes above. Am I missing something? What rule did he break?
From the original article: "After running some spells and buffs math, LMGD finds the next good thing that max-level chasers need to win a race like this – a way to absolutely exploit the system."
These were exploits, that's why Blizzard kept fixing them, that's the "rule" he broke. Since when do gamers need to be told, "using exploits is breaking the rules"?
what rule?
Why do you think Blizzard didn't punish him? It's because it was 100% their mistake.
Is this some new millennial math or something? Getting to 85 in 3 hours is not optimized leveling due to insight into the game world. It's amazing the mental gymnastics people will perform to not admit something is wrong. Knowingly exploiting a bug or design failure is cheating, full stop. Let me guess, you think soaking isn't sex either, right?
I agree with you but lets not start trading insults.
That's no rule, that's a random writer calling a strategy an exploit (he even slips and calls it a strategy elsewhere).
Blizzard fine tuned the levelling with its fixes and that's fine (all live games do that all the time without labelling the changes as exploits), which means his strategy is no longer optimal. And I repeat, would the new optimal be now "the exploit"? Are we not allowed to optimize? And who decides it? You or that writer? Please.
And you "assume the sale" by saying "Since when do gamers need to be told, "using exploits is breaking the rules"?".
All I see is a guy optimizing their levelling experience through choices and help from team members. I see no rule being broken.
It was a strategy of using exploits if that sits grammatically better with you.
I feel Blizzard should take away the achievement since it was achieved by exploiting and not done fairly and in the interest of all the other players who might have attained it without exploitation.
Pretty callous of Blizzard to worry about the streamer over all the other players that play the game without doing this and trying to achieve the same achievement. This completely cheapens the achievement and the method you can use to attain it. They should be proper punishment by the removal because then others will be less inclined to use this exploit.
Comments
43000+ posts and still going strong......
As for the guy who got the record first 85, I'll file that along with all the other firsts in video games that I recall over my 25 years of gaming. I'll file it alongside.. uh... there was that one time... um... the guy who... eh... oh nevermind.
Well I mean cats and dogs have beef so no surprise there xD
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
One for the modern age then.
Something to sooth your
Keep coming back.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
WF lv 85 Retail Cata - Athene & Co.
WF lv 80 Retail WoTLK - Athene & Co.
Sorry but non-retail/classic doesn't count, because a World first is only done once, that's why it's called a 'World First'.
Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013
Fishing on Bronzebeard since 2005
Fishing in RL since 1992
Born with a fishing rod in my hand in 1979
If Blizzard felt they were cheating they would have at least sent an in game warning not to continue. They instead just hotfixed what he found and let him do his thing as it was THEIR mistake.
If what someone else in the thread said is true, this occurred when cata launched as well. Which makes it doubly funny.
I find this "exploit" less problematic than the one used for classic launch where players could change layers by grouping to get an area with mobs already there. Rather than waiting for a respawn in their own layer/shard.
These were exploits, that's why Blizzard kept fixing them, that's the "rule" he broke. Since when do gamers need to be told, "using exploits is breaking the rules"?
Why do you think Blizzard didn't punish him? It's because it was 100% their mistake.
It was a strategy of using exploits if that sits grammatically better with you.
Far more likely not punished because he was a streamer, but we are trying to read the people at Blizzard's mind here, so who knows why?
Pretty callous of Blizzard to worry about the streamer over all the other players that play the game without doing this and trying to achieve the same achievement. This completely cheapens the achievement and the method you can use to attain it. They should be proper punishment by the removal because then others will be less inclined to use this exploit.