While I am personally in favor of PVE, mixes are fine as long as I can opt out of the PVP.
The server thing: Having separate servers would mean supporting two codebases. Given how much trouble game companies have just keeping one up, having two multiplies the trouble. Cross contamination would be endemic too. I can see why devs 'do not like'.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I am a bit surprised to see so much focus on the PvP thing, when it's really not core to the game...
PVP ends up being the core of quite a few games where the developers didn't really intend for it to be so. Unless a player can completely opt out of PVP without restricting his PVE activity, then PVP is core to your game whether or not that is your intent.
While I am personally in favor of PVE, mixes are fine as long as I can opt out of the PVP.
The server thing: Having separate servers would mean supporting two codebases. Given how much trouble game companies have just keeping one up, having two multiplies the trouble. Cross contamination would be endemic too. I can see why devs 'do not like'.
You wouldnt need 2 codebases. These settings are already in the games. This enables them to turn off PVP in cities, worlds, planets, and areas.
Having a startup file for each server with different settings is nothing to code.
I think its a lame excuse regardless if its a PVP or PVE MMO doing it. They already built the MMO, it makes ZERO sense not to capture both audiences and have them pay the dev for their time.
If its a PVE game, its not hard to just open 1 server for PVP. Its probably sometimes harder for a PVP game to do it IF it doesnt already have PVE content in the game. However if it does have PVE content then to give PVE players a server to play is only obvious.
As long as the population on the server is large enough to support the server its just simple mathematics. The devs not doing this are just giving away free money.
Raph has also quite literally said that you can find or settle on planets that have zero PvP. But thats not good enough. Nope, you need an entire separate game system run in parallel to the main one.
I mean, come on. Enough is enough here. Just stop.
YUP, a completely separate server is what is needed for PVE players.
Your entire point that this game requires only 1 server is LOL. Here you are contorting yourself all in a pretzel trying to defend this gankfest system.
NOTHING is preventing them from making a separate universe for PVE players. The PVE playerbase is huge, and not doing so it moronic.
We all know if the USA passed a law saying USA players had to have their own server, then the very next day Raph would have 2 servers.
The only reason they are not giving PVE players a server is because its an obvious bait and switch. Been there done that and we all see through it.
Even DAOC had PVE servers. Nothing prevents a game from having PVP and PVE servers that are completely separate other than Devs that try to bait in PVE players as targets with no other options.
It depends on how the game is structured. For example, suppose that it's very clear up front whether a given planet allows PVP or not. Players who don't want to PVP can stick to planets where PVP is not allowed. And suppose further that everything that you might want for PVE can be obtained at least as easily on a PVE planet as on a PVP one.
Is that good enough to protect the players who hate PVP, even with a single universe shared between PVP and PVE planets? I say that it is. The players who want PVP sometimes might well want to spend some time on non-PVP planets, and they'd benefit from having the single, shared universe.
Raph has also quite literally said that you can find or settle on planets that have zero PvP. But thats not good enough. Nope, you need an entire separate game system run in parallel to the main one.
I mean, come on. Enough is enough here. Just stop.
YUP, a completely separate server is what is needed for PVE players.
Your entire point that this game requires only 1 server is LOL. Here you are contorting yourself all in a pretzel trying to defend this gankfest system.
NOTHING is preventing them from making a separate universe for PVE players. The PVE playerbase is huge, and not doing so it moronic.
We all know if the USA passed a law saying USA players had to have their own server, then the very next day Raph would have 2 servers.
The only reason they are not giving PVE players a server is because its an obvious bait and switch. Been there done that and we all see through it.
Even DAOC had PVE servers. Nothing prevents a game from having PVP and PVE servers that are completely separate other than Devs that try to bait in PVE players as targets with no other options.
It depends on how the game is structured. For example, suppose that it's very clear up front whether a given planet allows PVP or not. Players who don't want to PVP can stick to planets where PVP is not allowed. And suppose further that everything that you might want for PVE can be obtained at least as easily on a PVE planet as on a PVP one.
Is that good enough to protect the players who hate PVP, even with a single universe shared between PVP and PVE planets? I say that it is. The players who want PVP sometimes might well want to spend some time on non-PVP planets, and they'd benefit from having the single, shared universe.
I believe that is the plan for this game. The players will setup a government and make rules. PvP will be clearly denoted to any thinking of traveling there. No surprises.
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And suppose further that everything that you might want for PVE can be obtained at least as easily on a PVE planet as on a PVP one.
Is that good enough to protect the players who hate PVP, even with a single universe shared between PVP and PVE planets? I say that it is. The players who want PVP sometimes might well want to spend some time on non-PVP planets, and they'd benefit from having the single, shared universe.
Yeah except it wont be that way, you know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. So you can suppose all day, but if it was going to be like that, then he would just have a PVE server and save himself all this trouble.
People wont trust the dev. By not having a PVE server he will keep many people away from this game without even taking a 2nd look.
The only reason you do something like that is a bait and switch which is EXACTLY what he will be doing. He did it in the past, he never solved the griefing problem.
This structure is to make PVE players targets by having "Special" areas where XP, Items etc.. will be given to PVP "risk" players. Pull the PVE newbs out of their safe places so they can be fodder.
I've said it before, I will say it again - Raph works daily from his flatulance filled office hoping to some day cash in on being the leader of a game design CULT
For my personal preferences, I won't play an MMORPG unless it has both PvE and PvP on the same server. I enjoy both activities, but PvE (by it's nature) eventually either gets finished or gets boring, so I need the PvP to fill in those gaps.
When I played SWG, it had both PvE and PvP, but was focused on PvE. The TEF system made the PvP completely consensual (unless u were a jedi) and it worked great.
When I played LotRO, it had both PvE and PvP, but was focused on PvE. The Ettenmoors zone ensured that PvP was completely optional, and it worked great.
When I played WAR, it had both PvE and PvP, but was focused on PvP. The lakes system, combined with scenarios, ensured that the PvP was completely optional, and it worked great.
That's 3 games, each using different methods for separating the playerbase, that all worked fine in having both sets of players on the same server. Everyone got to choose how they wanted to play and were barely affected by the other side of the playerbase. Ofc, there will always be complainers, because some people are entitled little shits, and some games are implemented badly.
We really shouldn't be worried about having both types of gameplay in a single game. Not only have the main issues been solved in a multitude of ways in a multitude of games, but having both sets in the same game is *good* for the community.....and it's community that Raph is focused on.
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For my personal preferences, I won't play an MMORPG unless it has both PvE and PvP on the same server. I enjoy both activities, but PvE (by it's nature) eventually either gets finished or gets boring, so I need the PvP to fill in those gaps.
Not even sure what your point is. If they have PVP both PVE servers then you can chose the one you want. Nothing is forcing you to play on a PVE server.
How selfish, just because you want to PVP you feel like you need to force everyone into your playstyle?
This is why these games constantly fail. PVE'ers are not going to be lured in like there were 20 years ago. They are just going to leave once they see this bad system.
I just find it funny how you dont want to give people a choice to play how they want to, and join the server they want.
That pretty much tells you all you need to know. Its all designed to lure in PVE'ers as Targets.
For my personal preferences, I won't play an MMORPG unless it has both PvE and PvP on the same server. I enjoy both activities, but PvE (by it's nature) eventually either gets finished or gets boring, so I need the PvP to fill in those gaps.
When I played SWG, it had both PvE and PvP, but was focused on PvE. The TEF system made the PvP completely consensual (unless u were a jedi) and it worked great.
....
Pretty sure Raph was on record as opposing flagging on SWG, wanting to 'work it out otherwise'.
Flagging seems like a reasonable compromise, but you're a foolish dev who underestimates the perseverance of the griefer/ganker.
Will give the thing a fair shake though, once it hits playability.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
For my personal preferences, I won't play an MMORPG unless it has both PvE and PvP on the same server. I enjoy both activities, but PvE (by it's nature) eventually either gets finished or gets boring, so I need the PvP to fill in those gaps.
When I played SWG, it had both PvE and PvP, but was focused on PvE. The TEF system made the PvP completely consensual (unless u were a jedi) and it worked great.
....
Pretty sure Raph was on record as opposing flagging on SWG, wanting to 'work it out otherwise'.
Flagging seems like a reasonable compromise, but you're a foolish dev who underestimates the perseverance of the griefer/ganker.
Will give the thing a fair shake though, once it hits playability.
He was also against Trammel in UO and swore his "next patch" would fix the griefer problem. Luckily for UO, the ones in charge ignored Raphie boy, went ahead with Trammel, Koster went buh-bye, and UO still lives on..
Nah, PvP is like yeast in bread or creamer in tea or coffee. You can't separate them even if you have "safe zones". PvP affects balance, loot distribution, and everything else about a game. Albion has "safe zones" with grade Z mats in them. Have to go to the PvP zones for good mats. It's smoke and mirrors to get players engaged in content they don't want to participate in.
Since they've announced this will be a PvP game, the only logical choice PvE players have is to not play at all. Find another game. This isn't 2001. There are so many choices out there for us. Don't waste time on games that can't be honest about what they are and are not.
You are using a game with a poor PvP and PvE setup, PvE players should have no reason to go to PvP zones. DAOC was far better, but not perfect. You are quite right that we can have separate games, but the strength of the MMORPG genre is the different kind of gameplay. Otherwise MMORPG's find it hard to stand up to everything from MMOFPS, Battle Royal, ARPG, RPG to MOBA and so on. These more defined genres are always going to be better at their speciality, MMORPG's need to be fully rounded to stand out against them.
What PvP games did you have in mind where PvE players have no reason to go into PvP areas? WoW has quests that has players go through enemy territory. ESO has quests that require entering Cyrodiil. Of course not mandatory, but heavily incentivized. Sandbox games are even more so like this. Albion and EVE do this.
It isn't just about resources though. It is about class design, skill balance, gear, loot, and gear/weapon balance. Everything is balanced passed through the lens of how it affects PvP. It really has to, or it will ruin PvP, but none the less, it still affects PvE play as a result.
Those defined genres have turned out to be better all around because they do one thing well instead of a lot of thing mediocre. MMOs do one thing well, allow a lot of players to share the game experience at the same time together. Doing that is going to dumb down the experience a little so it can be consumed by a broad range of people. Compare Fallout 4 to Fallout 76. FO4 offers a lot of interesting and unique and powerful pieces of gear with strong perks. FO76 has heavily watered down versions of that, but lets a couple dozen people share the experience together.
So, with all that said. This is a pvp game (of some kind) and it make no sense for someone who just wants a coop experience to play it. Personally, I don't think PvP is going to be among the biggest problems for this game.
What PvP games did you have in mind where PvE players have no reason to go into PvP areas? WoW has quests that has players go through enemy territory. ESO has quests that require entering Cyrodiil. Of course not mandatory, but heavily incentivized. Sandbox games are even more so like this. Albion and EVE do this.
It isn't just about resources though. It is about class design, skill balance, gear, loot, and gear/weapon balance. Everything is balanced passed through the lens of how it affects PvP. It really has to, or it will ruin PvP, but none the less, it still affects PvE play as a result.
Those defined genres have turned out to be better all around because they do one thing well instead of a lot of thing mediocre. MMOs do one thing well, allow a lot of players to share the game experience at the same time together. Doing that is going to dumb down the experience a little so it can be consumed by a broad range of people. Compare Fallout 4 to Fallout 76. FO4 offers a lot of interesting and unique and powerful pieces of gear with strong perks. FO76 has heavily watered down versions of that, but lets a couple dozen people share the experience together.
So, with all that said. This is a pvp game (of some kind) and it make no sense for someone who just wants a coop experience to play it. Personally, I don't think PvP is going to be among the biggest problems for this game.
I am putting forward my ideas on how PvP and PvE should be done, I am not saying its already done that way, but some MMORPG's are much closer to what I see as the ideal than others. You a quite right that MMORPG's being more generalist "can dumb down the experience a little" but that does not counter what I am saying.
I don't see PvP as being a big issue in SR myself, outside of the democratic voting system that was mentioned. That could be an Achilles heel unless there are measures to "put a shoe on it".
I think your are wrong. I think it CAN be best if it's separate. I think it CAN also be best when combined. DAoC is the perfect example of a game that was FAR better when PvP and PvE were combined. There is not one right answer.
I will however turn around your last statement again "Just because there is PvP in a MMO should not mean the PvE player feels he is missing out if he does not do it". Do you also feel the same way about "forced" PvE? That a PvP player should not "miss out" if he doesn't do the PvE like 3 hours 40 man raids? Should any and all resources, items, accomplishments be able to be gained via PvP only?
And if your answer is YES, then why in the world have two totally separate games under one name?
If we have players so nailed to the PvP mast, allow me to suggest MMORPG's may not be for them. If we have players so nailed to the PvE mast allow me to suggest MMORPGs may not be for them. MMORPG's are bigger than that.
It all depends on what you mean by "combined", for me all the players are in the same world, they only separate when some go to the PvP zones, just like DAOC. If PvE is such an anathema to you then head to the PvP zones.
Neither PvP or PvE "miss out". What use is raid gear to a PvP guy, like I mentioned armour and weapons found in PvE are of no use in PvP and visa versa. You do your PvE or your PvP because you want to do it. In fact on reflection, doing PvE raises your PvE level while doing PvP raises your PvP level.
The reason to have such totally separate gameplay in one game is that many of us like doing both. In that vein I find housing and crafting boring, but I would not say "these should be in separate games". Following on from that I play in guilds, I don't expect everybody in the guild to just do what I want to do. If someone needs to go on that quest to get an uber table and chair for their house, we go even though I think it's daft.
MMORPG's can be the epitome of collegiate gaming, both in gameplay, solo players, groups and guilds.
"If we have players so nailed to the PvP mast, allow me to suggest MMORPG's may not be for them. If we have players so nailed to the PvE mast allow me to suggest MMORPGs may not be for them. MMORPG's are bigger than that."
Again, I think that is wrong. There ARE games that cater to folks that want 100% PvP. There ARE games that cater to folks that want 100% PvE (Think games like Ember's Adrift). These are MMORPGs. And those folks rightfully have a home. It's no less valid than someone who likes a mix. What I think is a mistake is going into a game that has both PvP and PvE and expecting to never be touched by one or the other.
Did you play DAoC?
It wasn't just separate zones. It was a fully integrated game. Your success in PvP quite LITERALLY had an impact on people doing PvE. You got buffs which made a huge difference. You opened up Darkness Falls which had (at the time) some of the best gear AND had some raid level PvE content as you went lower and lower. You could find loot in Darkness Falls that crafters needed. But even if you just went into Darkness Falls for PvE you could still face PvP at any time. Some left over enemies would be skulking around. Or an enemy could succeed on the Frontiers and close your access to Darkness Falls and open it up for their own players who would sweep in and hunt you.
The best PvE experience gain was found in places like Darkness Falls or in the Frontiers. It was a fully integrated game.
You will never convince me that having two totally separate games under one roof is the best way. Have a Pure PvE game? Sure. Have a Pure PvP game? Sure. Have an integrated PvP and PvE game? Sure. Have 2 totally separate PvE and PvP games on the same server? No...
Like I said MMORPG's are bigger than that, but here we are getting into what we think a MMORPG is. Is a purely PvP or PvE MMO a MMORPG? For some I am sure it is, for me it is missing the essential other half.
My name on here "Scot" was chosen as my first race in DAOC was a Highlander, while my picture was chosen from the LotR films. So yes I played!
There were separate PvP zones, but there were good reasons to go there for PvE, that was a mistake in my eyes. But the idea of Realm versus Realm, PvP zones and three factions is the best way to make a MMORPG.
There is a reason AoC servers (and on other MMOS) which had open world PvP died out before the PvE with "frontier PvP" servers did. Players f***** them up. From having friends on those servers it is clear they start well, indeed a lot of "policing" was done but they degenerated into servers no one wanted to be on.
I can see the appeal of making PvE and PvP into a cohesive system, I loved that side of it in DAOC. But I have seen enough to realise that cannot be done without turning the PvE brigade away and MMORPG's are best as the most collegiate and bloody of gaming experiences.
The idea of PvP raiding like in DF makes for great play, but hopefully you can see why I think it turns the PvE crowd off. I do think you want the PvP side of a MMORPG to run (influence) the PvE side too much, getting PvP-wide zone buffs, armour sets etc should be enough.
I am thinking back to the conversation we had before about guilds, have you had anyone in any of yours that just wanted to do PvE? I think that may be why we come in at different angles on this again, we made sure the games we picked were PvE "friendly" while still having PvP, that was a must.
We need our care bears, we just don't need to put an arrow in their heads.
For my personal preferences, I won't play an MMORPG unless it has both PvE and PvP on the same server. I enjoy both activities, but PvE (by it's nature) eventually either gets finished or gets boring, so I need the PvP to fill in those gaps.
Not even sure what your point is. If they have PVP both PVE servers then you can chose the one you want. Nothing is forcing you to play on a PVE server.
How selfish, just because you want to PVP you feel like you need to force everyone into your playstyle?
I cannot imagine what he said that would cause you to run off on this ridiculous tirade.
He's made it clear he wants both on the same server, as many people do, myself included. It is one of the things I look for in a game - a nice justice system is a beautiful thing.
Nobody here is interested in forcing you (or anyone else) to play PvP.
Again, since your reading comprehension is poor: NOBODY HERE WANTS TO FORCE YOU TO PVP OR TO FORCE ANYONE ELSE TO PVP.
Read the box carefully and you'll never have to endure someone touching your goodies again. Get over it already, seek help, see a therapist.
For my personal preferences, I won't play an MMORPG unless it has both PvE and PvP on the same server. I enjoy both activities, but PvE (by it's nature) eventually either gets finished or gets boring, so I need the PvP to fill in those gaps.
Not even sure what your point is. If they have PVP both PVE servers then you can chose the one you want. Nothing is forcing you to play on a PVE server.
How selfish, just because you want to PVP you feel like you need to force everyone into your playstyle?
Again, there's no forcing. If a game has pvp, and a pve player has to be subjected to pvp then they can choose not to play the game. Conversely, if a game requires a player to level up through pve (Lineage 2) and a pvp player doesn't like pve, they can choose another game.
To his point, he enjoys both and wants a game that has both pve and pvp. Nothing wrong with that.
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For my personal preferences, I won't play an MMORPG unless it has both PvE and PvP on the same server. I enjoy both activities, but PvE (by it's nature) eventually either gets finished or gets boring, so I need the PvP to fill in those gaps.
When I played SWG, it had both PvE and PvP, but was focused on PvE. The TEF system made the PvP completely consensual (unless u were a jedi) and it worked great.
....
Pretty sure Raph was on record as opposing flagging on SWG, wanting to 'work it out otherwise'.
Flagging seems like a reasonable compromise, but you're a foolish dev who underestimates the perseverance of the griefer/ganker.
Will give the thing a fair shake though, once it hits playability.
I despised the flagging in SWG. I hated that the people that attacked you a few minutes earlier could literally be dancing at you but they were “covert” and we were supposed to not know.
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For my personal preferences, I won't play an MMORPG unless it has both PvE and PvP on the same server. I enjoy both activities, but PvE (by it's nature) eventually either gets finished or gets boring, so I need the PvP to fill in those gaps.
Not even sure what your point is. If they have PVP both PVE servers then you can chose the one you want. Nothing is forcing you to play on a PVE server.
How selfish, just because you want to PVP you feel like you need to force everyone into your playstyle?
I cannot imagine what he said that would cause you to run off on this ridiculous tirade.
He's made it clear he wants both on the same server, as many people do, myself included. It is one of the things I look for in a game - a nice justice system is a beautiful thing.
Nobody here is interested in forcing you (or anyone else) to play PvP.
Again, since your reading comprehension is poor: NOBODY HERE WANTS TO FORCE YOU TO PVP OR TO FORCE ANYONE ELSE TO PVP.
Read the box carefully and you'll never have to endure someone touching your goodies again. Get over it already, seek help, see a therapist.
Well maybe you have not been comprehending very well. I will sum it up for you.
This thread has been having 1 main debate debate on this and its ALL about forcing PVE players into PVP.
1) 1 universe only. a) PVP server with PVE players together on same server competing with eachother. b) NO PVE server allowed
2) 2 separate universes. a) PVP & PVE server together b) PVE Servers only, Where PVE players can play without PVP at all - or PVP strictly regulated to Arenas without PVE incentives.
So by advocating option 1) you are essentially agreeing you want to FORCE PVE players to play with PVP players without another option other than not to play at all.
What are they afraid of? Why cant PVE players have a PVE server? Whats the problem with that?
Well maybe you have not been comprehending very well. I will sum it up for you.
This thread has been having 1 main debate debate on this and its ALL about forcing PVE players into PVP.
1) 1 universe only. a) PVP server with PVE players together on same server competing with eachother. b) NO PVE server allowed
2) 2 separate universes. a) PVP & PVE server together b) PVE Servers only, Where PVE players can play without PVP at all - or PVP strictly regulated to Arenas without PVE incentives.
So by advocating option 1) you are essentially agreeing you want to FORCE PVE players to play with PVP players without another option other than not to play at all.
What are they afraid of? Why cant PVE players have a PVE server? Whats the problem with that?
How are PvP and PvE players "competing with each other"? How does that happen in any MMO around? What competition?
Also one of your preferred options has PvE with PvP in "strictly regulated arenas" (I would prefer strictly regulated zones myself). So when you say "Why cant PVE players have a PVE server" that is rather confusing as from what you have said PvP exists on this so called PvE server.
What are they afraid of? Why cant PVE players have a PVE server? Whats the problem with that?
Because that's not the game they want to make. And since there are a LOT of planets (at least according to their initial design) it seems Raph is suggesting that it can be a pve planet.
Not sure how he intends to deal with pvp/pve in space.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
What are they afraid of? Why cant PVE players have a PVE server? Whats the problem with that?
Because that's not the game they want to make. And since there are a LOT of planets (at least according to their initial design) it seems Raph is suggesting that it can be a pve planet.
Not sure how he intends to deal with pvp/pve in space.
Do we even know that there is space combat? I don't recall seeing any. Maybe you just hop in your ship, open the star map, hit the GO button and voila you're at the next planet? Good question, though. I'll be interested in the answer.
For my personal preferences, I won't play an MMORPG unless it has both PvE and PvP on the same server. I enjoy both activities, but PvE (by it's nature) eventually either gets finished or gets boring, so I need the PvP to fill in those gaps.
Not even sure what your point is. If they have PVP both PVE servers then you can chose the one you want. Nothing is forcing you to play on a PVE server.
How selfish, just because you want to PVP you feel like you need to force everyone into your playstyle?
This is why these games constantly fail. PVE'ers are not going to be lured in like there were 20 years ago. They are just going to leave once they see this bad system.
I just find it funny how you dont want to give people a choice to play how they want to, and join the server they want.
That pretty much tells you all you need to know. Its all designed to lure in PVE'ers as Targets.
Missed the point entirely
The point was that you can have an MMORPG which includes both PvE and PvP, with both communities being happy and it not being an issue for the overwhelming majority of players.
Like, for example, the majority of popular MMORPGs since the birth of the genre.
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For my personal preferences, I won't play an MMORPG unless it has both PvE and PvP on the same server. I enjoy both activities, but PvE (by it's nature) eventually either gets finished or gets boring, so I need the PvP to fill in those gaps.
Not even sure what your point is. If they have PVP both PVE servers then you can chose the one you want. Nothing is forcing you to play on a PVE server.
How selfish, just because you want to PVP you feel like you need to force everyone into your playstyle?
I cannot imagine what he said that would cause you to run off on this ridiculous tirade.
He's made it clear he wants both on the same server, as many people do, myself included. It is one of the things I look for in a game - a nice justice system is a beautiful thing.
Nobody here is interested in forcing you (or anyone else) to play PvP.
Again, since your reading comprehension is poor: NOBODY HERE WANTS TO FORCE YOU TO PVP OR TO FORCE ANYONE ELSE TO PVP.
Read the box carefully and you'll never have to endure someone touching your goodies again. Get over it already, seek help, see a therapist.
1) 1 universe only. a) PVP server with PVE players together on same server competing with eachother. b) NO PVE server allowed
This is the bit that you have gotten completely wrong.
It's a PvE server, with optional PvP.
It's not a PvP server. It's not a PvP focused game.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
How is it optional if they can convert a planet you're on to PvP? That sounds far from optional.
Also any game that has PvP always becomes PvP focused because every patch is going to be balanced around PvP and not PvE. Every game that I have played is like this. PvE players always become second class citizens as far as balancing goes. That goes double for resources in PvP areas too.
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If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Having a startup file for each server with different settings is nothing to code.
I think its a lame excuse regardless if its a PVP or PVE MMO doing it.
They already built the MMO, it makes ZERO sense not to capture both audiences and have them pay the dev for their time.
If its a PVE game, its not hard to just open 1 server for PVP. Its probably sometimes harder for a PVP game to do it IF it doesnt already have PVE content in the game. However if it does have PVE content then to give PVE players a server to play is only obvious.
As long as the population on the server is large enough to support the server its just simple mathematics. The devs not doing this are just giving away free money.
Is that good enough to protect the players who hate PVP, even with a single universe shared between PVP and PVE planets? I say that it is. The players who want PVP sometimes might well want to spend some time on non-PVP planets, and they'd benefit from having the single, shared universe.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
People wont trust the dev. By not having a PVE server he will keep many people away from this game without even taking a 2nd look.
The only reason you do something like that is a bait and switch which is EXACTLY what he will be doing. He did it in the past, he never solved the griefing problem.
This structure is to make PVE players targets by having "Special" areas where XP, Items etc.. will be given to PVP "risk" players. Pull the PVE newbs out of their safe places so they can be fodder.
Seen it a million times.
Not even sure what your point is. If they have PVP both PVE servers then you can chose the one you want. Nothing is forcing you to play on a PVE server.
How selfish, just because you want to PVP you feel like you need to force everyone into your playstyle?
This is why these games constantly fail.
PVE'ers are not going to be lured in like there were 20 years ago. They are just going to leave once they see this bad system.
I just find it funny how you dont want to give people a choice to play how they want to, and join the server they want.
That pretty much tells you all you need to know. Its all designed to lure in PVE'ers as Targets.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I don't see PvP as being a big issue in SR myself, outside of the democratic voting system that was mentioned. That could be an Achilles heel unless there are measures to "put a shoe on it".
My name on here "Scot" was chosen as my first race in DAOC was a Highlander, while my picture was chosen from the LotR films. So yes I played!
There were separate PvP zones, but there were good reasons to go there for PvE, that was a mistake in my eyes. But the idea of Realm versus Realm, PvP zones and three factions is the best way to make a MMORPG.
There is a reason AoC servers (and on other MMOS) which had open world PvP died out before the PvE with "frontier PvP" servers did. Players f***** them up. From having friends on those servers it is clear they start well, indeed a lot of "policing" was done but they degenerated into servers no one wanted to be on.
I can see the appeal of making PvE and PvP into a cohesive system, I loved that side of it in DAOC. But I have seen enough to realise that cannot be done without turning the PvE brigade away and MMORPG's are best as the most collegiate and bloody of gaming experiences.
The idea of PvP raiding like in DF makes for great play, but hopefully you can see why I think it turns the PvE crowd off. I do think you want the PvP side of a MMORPG to run (influence) the PvE side too much, getting PvP-wide zone buffs, armour sets etc should be enough.
I am thinking back to the conversation we had before about guilds, have you had anyone in any of yours that just wanted to do PvE? I think that may be why we come in at different angles on this again, we made sure the games we picked were PvE "friendly" while still having PvP, that was a must.
We need our care bears, we just don't need to put an arrow in their heads.
He's made it clear he wants both on the same server, as many people do, myself included. It is one of the things I look for in a game - a nice justice system is a beautiful thing.
Nobody here is interested in forcing you (or anyone else) to play PvP.
Again, since your reading comprehension is poor: NOBODY HERE WANTS TO FORCE YOU TO PVP OR TO FORCE ANYONE ELSE TO PVP.
Read the box carefully and you'll never have to endure someone touching your goodies again. Get over it already, seek help, see a therapist.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This thread has been having 1 main debate debate on this and its ALL about forcing PVE players into PVP.
1) 1 universe only.
a) PVP server with PVE players together on same server competing with eachother.
b) NO PVE server allowed
2) 2 separate universes.
a) PVP & PVE server together
b) PVE Servers only, Where PVE players can play without PVP at all - or PVP strictly regulated to Arenas without PVE incentives.
So by advocating option 1) you are essentially agreeing you want to FORCE PVE players to play with PVP players without another option other than not to play at all.
What are they afraid of? Why cant PVE players have a PVE server? Whats the problem with that?
Also one of your preferred options has PvE with PvP in "strictly regulated arenas" (I would prefer strictly regulated zones myself). So when you say "Why cant PVE players have a PVE server" that is rather confusing as from what you have said PvP exists on this so called PvE server.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Also any game that has PvP always becomes PvP focused because every patch is going to be balanced around PvP and not PvE. Every game that I have played is like this. PvE players always become second class citizens as far as balancing goes. That goes double for resources in PvP areas too.
Nah not drinking that kool-aid.