I think people are getting ahead of themselves wanting the world before the game has even come out. As long as there is a good foundation there, is fun to play and nothing is off the table, we're in a good place. We have to have something to look forward to, the game cannot be all things to all people but it does need somewhere to be able to grow to.
People did this with SWG, the developers knew the problems with the game but they can only deliver so much each Publish. MMORPGs are designed to be around for decades these days, we didn't it know it back then but people have to be patient.
If the developers create a great foundation to expand from and give a clear vision of the game, that'll be confidence boosting. However if it comes out, the graphics are poor, the lore isn't interesting, the worlds are bland and boring, the character models are ugly, the animations are wonky, the combat sucks and the thing feels like a dumbed down MMO already.... No one will want to invest their time into it.
I'm personally hoping to login to a complex world where I feel free and that I can sink my teeth into. Ultimately I want that risk/reward, I want an MMORPG that punishes your for losing again. I do not feel like I can fail with current MMOs, so I'm bored because character development is only ever one way.
I never understood why we're still separating PVP and PVE when SWG got it right with TEF.
I think the game community is pretty fractured right now. What I mean is, the two communities have a near allergic response to one another.
There is a significant playerbase (I think) that not only doesn't want PvP - it cannot be happening anywhere in the game they're playing. Same with the PvP crowd. It is a wonder to behold.
I never understood why we're still separating PVP and PVE when SWG got it right with TEF.
Really? Sounds like it started with the same pitfalls as all the other auto-flagging systems and then said "hold my beer". From what Raph says in the linked article you couldn't even attack NPC's from the other faction without getting flagged for PvP
I never understood why we're still separating PVP and PVE when SWG got it right with TEF.
Really? Sounds like it started with the same pitfalls as all the other auto-flagging systems and then said "hold my beer". From what Raph says in the linked article you couldn't even attack NPC's from the other faction without getting flagged for PvP
Quite frankly, I like the idea of a player going on a killing spree and becoming an outlaw. Including the attacking of npc's in other factions.
In Lineage 2 a "red" player would be denied services but they could go to a specific town in order to gain those services because it was an outlaw town.
Now, the developers didn't do a lot with this and it could have been a very neat feature/place, but from what I understand Lineage 2's development was a sort of "catch as catch can" of ideas. Developers would essentially bring up some idea and if it was liked it would be implemented.
While this could be a very fun and exciting way to develop a game it doesn't bode well for systems that are already in game and could be fleshed out in better ways but that don't have a developer champion who wants to do it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I never understood why we're still separating PVP and PVE when SWG got it right with TEF.
Really? Sounds like it started with the same pitfalls as all the other auto-flagging systems and then said "hold my beer". From what Raph says in the linked article you couldn't even attack NPC's from the other faction without getting flagged for PvP
Quite frankly, I like the idea of a player going on a killing spree and becoming an outlaw. Including the attacking of npc's in other factions.
In Lineage 2 a "red" player would be denied services but they could go to a specific town in order to gain those services because it was an outlaw town.
Now, the developers didn't do a lot with this and it could have been a very neat feature/place, but from what I understand Lineage 2's development was a sort of "catch as catch can" of ideas. Developers would essentially bring up some idea and if it was liked it would be implemented.
While this could be a very fun and exciting way to develop a game it doesn't bode well for systems that are already in game and could be fleshed out in better ways but that don't have a developer champion who wants to do it.
I love this feature. UO had the same - a red town. I wish they'd a chance to explore some of this more.
I never understood why we're still separating PVP and PVE when SWG got it right with TEF.
Really? Sounds like it started with the same pitfalls as all the other auto-flagging systems and then said "hold my beer". From what Raph says in the linked article you couldn't even attack NPC's from the other faction without getting flagged for PvP
TEFs were the worst part of the game for me. Getting jumped by rebel scum and then having them dance around you 15 minutes later, while they had their "flag" off... was just silly.
I get the ideas behind it, but IMHO you should never have to rely on checking a "flag" on another person, place, or thing to see if you can attack it. Rules of engagement shouldn't change minute by minute. Set those rules based on a zone so you know "When I am HERE I can do X" and "When I am THERE I can do Y"
Simple. Not confusing. And people know where to go for the experience THEY are seeking.
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I never understood why we're still separating PVP and PVE when SWG got it right with TEF.
Really? Sounds like it started with the same pitfalls as all the other auto-flagging systems and then said "hold my beer". From what Raph says in the linked article you couldn't even attack NPC's from the other faction without getting flagged for PvP
That's a good thing, because you go around terrorizing a town, players have to have the ability to get you out.
Maybe there just needs to be some kind of limit on it like if you're doing a PVE quest, then you wont be flagged and if you're doing a repeatable XP mission like in SWG, you will not be flagged as you're in the middle of nowhere. However if you're running round a town killing all the NPCs, then you'll be flagged and rightly so.
I never understood why we're still separating PVP and PVE when SWG got it right with TEF.
I think the game community is pretty fractured right now. What I mean is, the two communities have a near allergic response to one another.
There is a significant playerbase (I think) that not only doesn't want PvP - it cannot be happening anywhere in the game they're playing. Same with the PvP crowd. It is a wonder to behold.
Well I think idiots should be ignored and developers should be making the best design decisions for their game and not pleasing whiners all the time. Pleasing these people leads to making the gamer easier and easier to the point everyone is sitting in a city and queuing up for instances like every modern MMO out there today Worlds do not exist anymore because people see them as an obstacle.
Combining PVE and PVPers to one server and guess what? The PVE people can player with the PVE people if they want and the PVP people can play with the PVP people. I myself love to do both and I think that is the actual majority, but I do not love to do one all of the time and that has been my biggest problem with the current system every MMO has.
Quite frankly, I like the idea of a player going on a killing spree and becoming an outlaw. Including the attacking of npc's in other factions.
What's a good balance between simulation and gameplay? Obviously I can only answer that for myself. If I want immersion then I go read a book, catch up with my RP buddies, or play story content.
Nothing pulls me out of immersion faster than another player looking for a fight. If you kill an NPC boss they (usually) stay dead or do so for a reasonable amount of time. If you manage to kill the aggressor there's an excellent chance they'll just come back to harass you for no other reason than their own entertainment.
Why would I want to put up with that unless I'm also looking for deathmatch PvP? Which begs the question of why I'm playing an MMO for deathmatch PvP when there are much better options for that.
I never understood why we're still separating PVP and PVE when SWG got it right with TEF.
Really? Sounds like it started with the same pitfalls as all the other auto-flagging systems and then said "hold my beer". From what Raph says in the linked article you couldn't even attack NPC's from the other faction without getting flagged for PvP
Quite frankly, I like the idea of a player going on a killing spree and becoming an outlaw. Including the attacking of npc's in other factions.
In Lineage 2 a "red" player would be denied services but they could go to a specific town in order to gain those services because it was an outlaw town.
Now, the developers didn't do a lot with this and it could have been a very neat feature/place, but from what I understand Lineage 2's development was a sort of "catch as catch can" of ideas. Developers would essentially bring up some idea and if it was liked it would be implemented.
While this could be a very fun and exciting way to develop a game it doesn't bode well for systems that are already in game and could be fleshed out in better ways but that don't have a developer champion who wants to do it.
Having some meaningless NPCs in town dead isn't really so bad. Being unable to turn in a completed quest for an hour because some griefer wants to keep killing the quest giver is a nuisance.
TEFs were the worst part of the game for me. Getting jumped by rebel scum and then having them dance around you 15 minutes later, while they had their "flag" off... was just silly.
I get the ideas behind it, but IMHO you should never have to rely on checking a "flag" on another person, place, or thing to see if you can attack it. Rules of engagement shouldn't change minute by minute. Set those rules based on a zone so you know "When I am HERE I can do X" and "When I am THERE I can do Y"
Simple. Not confusing. And people know where to go for the experience THEY are seeking.
Indeed, this is why RvR with PvP zones is the best. Beyond simple and the map shows you where to go for PvP. For those players who have sat too long in their game chair and now think that's real life, you get a button to teleport you there.
TEFs were the worst part of the game for me. Getting jumped by rebel scum and then having them dance around you 15 minutes later, while they had their "flag" off... was just silly.
I get the ideas behind it, but IMHO you should never have to rely on checking a "flag" on another person, place, or thing to see if you can attack it. Rules of engagement shouldn't change minute by minute. Set those rules based on a zone so you know "When I am HERE I can do X" and "When I am THERE I can do Y"
Simple. Not confusing. And people know where to go for the experience THEY are seeking.
Indeed, this is why RvR with PvP zones is the best. Beyond simple and the map shows you where to go for PvP. For those players who have sat too long in their game chair and now think that's real life, you get a button to teleport you there.
Agreed. I especially liked it when DAOC and ESO created PvP zones for different levels, so that if you were a middle level player you could go to a PvP zone with other middle level players.
If you were a super end-game heavyweight, there was a PvP zone for those players too, and they couldn't just gank a bunch of lower level players for fun.
I never understood why we're still separating PVP and PVE when SWG got it right with TEF.
Really? Sounds like it started with the same pitfalls as all the other auto-flagging systems and then said "hold my beer". From what Raph says in the linked article you couldn't even attack NPC's from the other faction without getting flagged for PvP
Quite frankly, I like the idea of a player going on a killing spree and becoming an outlaw. Including the attacking of npc's in other factions.
In Lineage 2 a "red" player would be denied services but they could go to a specific town in order to gain those services because it was an outlaw town.
Now, the developers didn't do a lot with this and it could have been a very neat feature/place, but from what I understand Lineage 2's development was a sort of "catch as catch can" of ideas. Developers would essentially bring up some idea and if it was liked it would be implemented.
While this could be a very fun and exciting way to develop a game it doesn't bode well for systems that are already in game and could be fleshed out in better ways but that don't have a developer champion who wants to do it.
Having some meaningless NPCs in town dead isn't really so bad. Being unable to turn in a completed quest for an hour because some griefer wants to keep killing the quest giver is a nuisance.
Well, obviously quest npc's wouldn't be affected. If the game has quests that is.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Having some meaningless NPCs in town dead isn't really so bad. Being unable to turn in a completed quest for an hour because some griefer wants to keep killing the quest giver is a nuisance.
I agree.
They need to write code where if a player murders a quest giver more than once in 24hrs. the game automatically bans the account with no refunds.
I know that sounds harsh, but let's weed out the assholes early and do it without wasting GM time.
I think people are getting ahead of themselves wanting the world before the game has even come out. As long as there is a good foundation there, is fun to play and nothing is off the table, we're in a good place.
I disagree, I think PVE'ers need to be voicing their opinion EARLY in the process. Waiting until the game releases is too late.
This is the entire problem, forums in many cases is just another form of PVP, so obviously it attracts alot of PVP type people. PVP community is very vocal, and devs put all these PVP things in their game based on that.
Then when all the PVE casuals show up at launch, the devs wonder why nobody likes their game. Devs need to find a way to get in touch with the Overwhelming majority of players that play games after launch. Or they will be running into these problems forever.
Quite frankly, I like the idea of a player going on a killing spree and becoming an outlaw. Including the attacking of npc's in other factions.
What's a good balance between simulation and gameplay? Obviously I can only answer that for myself. If I want immersion then I go read a book, catch up with my RP buddies, or play story content.
Nothing pulls me out of immersion faster than another player looking for a fight. If you kill an NPC boss they (usually) stay dead or do so for a reasonable amount of time. If you manage to kill the aggressor there's an excellent chance they'll just come back to harass you for no other reason than their own entertainment.
Why would I want to put up with that unless I'm also looking for deathmatch PvP? Which begs the question of why I'm playing an MMO for deathmatch PvP when there are much better options for that.
It just goes back to the type of game you want to play. My first game was Lineage 2 and it was excellent. Player relationships were important and world politics played into every day game play.
I've told this story before, but there was a huge siege (Lineage 2) that had a massive amount of clans involved. I think I counted ~34 against 37 or some such thing. I was in Lord of the Rings Online doing some things when I realized it was getting close to siege time.
I logged into Lineage 2 and energy was amazing. Especially in Aden where the siege was taking place. People running around, plans being finalized, supplies being "supplied."
It felt as if there was really something happening and made my time in Lord of the Rings Online seem dull in comparison.
"I" prefer a mmorpg to be something where people know other people and guilds and where players are affecting the world.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Quite frankly, I like the idea of a player going on a killing spree and becoming an outlaw. Including the attacking of npc's in other factions.
What's a good balance between simulation and gameplay? Obviously I can only answer that for myself. If I want immersion then I go read a book, catch up with my RP buddies, or play story content.
Nothing pulls me out of immersion faster than another player looking for a fight. If you kill an NPC boss they (usually) stay dead or do so for a reasonable amount of time. If you manage to kill the aggressor there's an excellent chance they'll just come back to harass you for no other reason than their own entertainment.
Why would I want to put up with that unless I'm also looking for deathmatch PvP? Which begs the question of why I'm playing an MMO for deathmatch PvP when there are much better options for that.
It just goes back to the type of game you want to play. My first game was Lineage 2 and it was excellent. Player relationships were important and world politics played into every day game play.
I've told this story before, but there was a huge siege (Lineage 2) that had a massive amount of clans involved. I think I counted ~34 against 37 or some such thing. I was in Lord of the Rings Online doing some things when I realized it was getting close to siege time.
I logged into Lineage 2 and energy was amazing. Especially in Aden where the siege was taking place. People running around, plans being finalized, supplies being "supplied."
It felt as if there was really something happening and made my time in Lord of the Rings Online seem dull in comparison.
"I" prefer a mmorpg to be something where people know other people and guilds and where players are affecting the world.
I played EVE Online for 10 years for just this same reason. There was just something so different and exciting there being part of this dynamic player influenced environment where I had the freedom for my characters to be whatever I could make them into.
Whether it was being a solitary mining fleet, fighting back against fierce NPC pirate or sleeper invasions, or being a part of large scale player lead wars of elimination I've never had a similar game experience.
Not even in L2 which I played much earlier than you (early 2004) mostly because on our server there was one large alliance of no lifers (you had to play a minimum of 10-12 hours a day to join them) which took over every castle.
They were nigh impossible to defeat, or even survive long in a seige as they all were at max level (at first 70, then 74) which most of the rest of the server was no where near them.
Their only real challenge was from gold farmers of all things who would wage war occasionally over control of key farming locations but never got involved in the castle seiges.
On the few occasions I ran across those battles I would join in in the side of the gold farmers.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It just goes back to the type of game you want to play. My first game was Lineage 2 and it was excellent. Player relationships were important and world politics played into every day game play.
I've told this story before, but there was a huge siege (Lineage 2) that had a massive amount of clans involved. I think I counted ~34 against 37 or some such thing. I was in Lord of the Rings Online doing some things when I realized it was getting close to siege time.
I logged into Lineage 2 and energy was amazing. Especially in Aden where the siege was taking place. People running around, plans being finalized, supplies being "supplied."
It felt as if there was really something happening and made my time in Lord of the Rings Online seem dull in comparison.
"I" prefer a mmorpg to be something where people know other people and guilds and where players are affecting the world.
I played EVE Online for 10 years for just this same reason. There was just something so different and exciting there being part of this dynamic player influenced environment where I had the freedom for my characters to be whatever I could make them into.
Whether it was being a solitary mining fleet, fighting back against fierce NPC pirate or sleeper invasions, or being a part of large scale player lead wars of elimination I've never had a similar game experience.
Not even in L2 which I played much earlier than you (early 2004) mostly because on our server there was one large alliance of no lifers (you had to play a minimum of 10-12 hours a day to join them) which took over every castle.
They were nigh impossible to defeat, or even survive long in a seige as they all were at max level (at first 70, then 74) which most of the rest of the server was no where near them.
Their only real challenge was from gold farmers of all things who would wage war occasionally over control of key farming locations but never got involved in the castle seiges.
On the few occasions I ran across those battles I would join in in the side of the gold farmers.
Actually I started Lineage 2 two months after it started. Hindemith server
on himdemith the server would rise up and remove clans it didn’t like from their castles.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I never understood why we're still separating PVP and PVE when SWG got it right with TEF.
Really? Sounds like it started with the same pitfalls as all the other auto-flagging systems and then said "hold my beer". From what Raph says in the linked article you couldn't even attack NPC's from the other faction without getting flagged for PvP
Quite frankly, I like the idea of a player going on a killing spree and becoming an outlaw. Including the attacking of npc's in other factions.
In Lineage 2 a "red" player would be denied services but they could go to a specific town in order to gain those services because it was an outlaw town.
Now, the developers didn't do a lot with this and it could have been a very neat feature/place, but from what I understand Lineage 2's development was a sort of "catch as catch can" of ideas. Developers would essentially bring up some idea and if it was liked it would be implemented.
While this could be a very fun and exciting way to develop a game it doesn't bode well for systems that are already in game and could be fleshed out in better ways but that don't have a developer champion who wants to do it.
Having some meaningless NPCs in town dead isn't really so bad. Being unable to turn in a completed quest for an hour because some griefer wants to keep killing the quest giver is a nuisance.
Well, obviously quest npc's wouldn't be affected. If the game has quests that is.
Perhaps they shouldn't be affected, but that's not how WoW does it, for example.
I never understood why we're still separating PVP and PVE when SWG got it right with TEF.
Really? Sounds like it started with the same pitfalls as all the other auto-flagging systems and then said "hold my beer". From what Raph says in the linked article you couldn't even attack NPC's from the other faction without getting flagged for PvP
Quite frankly, I like the idea of a player going on a killing spree and becoming an outlaw. Including the attacking of npc's in other factions.
In Lineage 2 a "red" player would be denied services but they could go to a specific town in order to gain those services because it was an outlaw town.
Now, the developers didn't do a lot with this and it could have been a very neat feature/place, but from what I understand Lineage 2's development was a sort of "catch as catch can" of ideas. Developers would essentially bring up some idea and if it was liked it would be implemented.
While this could be a very fun and exciting way to develop a game it doesn't bode well for systems that are already in game and could be fleshed out in better ways but that don't have a developer champion who wants to do it.
Having some meaningless NPCs in town dead isn't really so bad. Being unable to turn in a completed quest for an hour because some griefer wants to keep killing the quest giver is a nuisance.
Well, obviously quest npc's wouldn't be affected. If the game has quests that is.
Perhaps they shouldn't be affected, but that's not how WoW does it, for example.
WoW was my first thought about that comment too. I remember how the Horde would come and kill all the quest NPCs in the Alliance zone trying to draw out players.
It's a PvP game. The intended response the developers are hoping for is that the opposite faction will engage in battle with the NPC killers. It's intended to foster PvP. In theory, that's why people are playing a pvp game right. Why wouldn't enemy faction NPCs be vulnerable in a pvp game?
It just goes back to the type of game you want to play. My first game was Lineage 2 and it was excellent. Player relationships were important and world politics played into every day game play.
I've told this story before, but there was a huge siege (Lineage 2) that had a massive amount of clans involved. I think I counted ~34 against 37 or some such thing. I was in Lord of the Rings Online doing some things when I realized it was getting close to siege time.
I logged into Lineage 2 and energy was amazing. Especially in Aden where the siege was taking place. People running around, plans being finalized, supplies being "supplied."
It felt as if there was really something happening and made my time in Lord of the Rings Online seem dull in comparison.
"I" prefer a mmorpg to be something where people know other people and guilds and where players are affecting the world.
I played EVE Online for 10 years for just this same reason. There was just something so different and exciting there being part of this dynamic player influenced environment where I had the freedom for my characters to be whatever I could make them into.
Whether it was being a solitary mining fleet, fighting back against fierce NPC pirate or sleeper invasions, or being a part of large scale player lead wars of elimination I've never had a similar game experience.
Not even in L2 which I played much earlier than you (early 2004) mostly because on our server there was one large alliance of no lifers (you had to play a minimum of 10-12 hours a day to join them) which took over every castle.
They were nigh impossible to defeat, or even survive long in a seige as they all were at max level (at first 70, then 74) which most of the rest of the server was no where near them.
Their only real challenge was from gold farmers of all things who would wage war occasionally over control of key farming locations but never got involved in the castle seiges.
On the few occasions I ran across those battles I would join in in the side of the gold farmers.
Actually I started Lineage 2 two months after it started. Hindemith server
on himdemith the server would rise up and remove clans it didn’t like from their castles.
You weren't alternating your gameplay with Lotro back when I was playing during the game's first 6 months.
No one was going to remove the clans which controlled our server, I played regularly and was only at level 56 on my SR and struggling very hard to gear myself.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It just goes back to the type of game you want to play. My first game was Lineage 2 and it was excellent. Player relationships were important and world politics played into every day game play.
I've told this story before, but there was a huge siege (Lineage 2) that had a massive amount of clans involved. I think I counted ~34 against 37 or some such thing. I was in Lord of the Rings Online doing some things when I realized it was getting close to siege time.
I logged into Lineage 2 and energy was amazing. Especially in Aden where the siege was taking place. People running around, plans being finalized, supplies being "supplied."
It felt as if there was really something happening and made my time in Lord of the Rings Online seem dull in comparison.
"I" prefer a mmorpg to be something where people know other people and guilds and where players are affecting the world.
I played EVE Online for 10 years for just this same reason. There was just something so different and exciting there being part of this dynamic player influenced environment where I had the freedom for my characters to be whatever I could make them into.
Whether it was being a solitary mining fleet, fighting back against fierce NPC pirate or sleeper invasions, or being a part of large scale player lead wars of elimination I've never had a similar game experience.
Not even in L2 which I played much earlier than you (early 2004) mostly because on our server there was one large alliance of no lifers (you had to play a minimum of 10-12 hours a day to join them) which took over every castle.
They were nigh impossible to defeat, or even survive long in a seige as they all were at max level (at first 70, then 74) which most of the rest of the server was no where near them.
Their only real challenge was from gold farmers of all things who would wage war occasionally over control of key farming locations but never got involved in the castle seiges.
On the few occasions I ran across those battles I would join in in the side of the gold farmers.
Actually I started Lineage 2 two months after it started. Hindemith server
on himdemith the server would rise up and remove clans it didn’t like from their castles.
You weren't alternating your gameplay with Lotro back when I was playing during the game's first 6 months.
No one was going to remove the clans which controlled our server, I played regularly and was only at level 56 on my SR and struggling very hard to gear myself.
The grind was real....
I played Lineage 2 from 2 months after launch(Prelude) to just after one of the Gracia expansions. It was in my later time with the game that Lord of the Rings Online launch.
My character was in the 80's which at the time was up there but not the highest. The issue being was that I was already giving it all the time I could and it required MORE time to stay competitive. Both with levels and financially.
"Thus" I ended my time in Lineage 2.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It just goes back to the type of game you want to play. My first game was Lineage 2 and it was excellent. Player relationships were important and world politics played into every day game play.
I've told this story before, but there was a huge siege (Lineage 2) that had a massive amount of clans involved. I think I counted ~34 against 37 or some such thing. I was in Lord of the Rings Online doing some things when I realized it was getting close to siege time.
I logged into Lineage 2 and energy was amazing. Especially in Aden where the siege was taking place. People running around, plans being finalized, supplies being "supplied."
It felt as if there was really something happening and made my time in Lord of the Rings Online seem dull in comparison.
"I" prefer a mmorpg to be something where people know other people and guilds and where players are affecting the world.
I played EVE Online for 10 years for just this same reason. There was just something so different and exciting there being part of this dynamic player influenced environment where I had the freedom for my characters to be whatever I could make them into.
Whether it was being a solitary mining fleet, fighting back against fierce NPC pirate or sleeper invasions, or being a part of large scale player lead wars of elimination I've never had a similar game experience.
Not even in L2 which I played much earlier than you (early 2004) mostly because on our server there was one large alliance of no lifers (you had to play a minimum of 10-12 hours a day to join them) which took over every castle.
They were nigh impossible to defeat, or even survive long in a seige as they all were at max level (at first 70, then 74) which most of the rest of the server was no where near them.
Their only real challenge was from gold farmers of all things who would wage war occasionally over control of key farming locations but never got involved in the castle seiges.
On the few occasions I ran across those battles I would join in in the side of the gold farmers.
Actually I started Lineage 2 two months after it started. Hindemith server
on himdemith the server would rise up and remove clans it didn’t like from their castles.
You weren't alternating your gameplay with Lotro back when I was playing during the game's first 6 months.
No one was going to remove the clans which controlled our server, I played regularly and was only at level 56 on my SR and struggling very hard to gear myself.
The grind was real....
I played Lineage 2 from 2 months after launch(Prelude) to just after one of the Gracia expansions. It was in my later time with the game that Lord of the Rings Online launch.
My character was in the 80's which at the time was up there but not the highest. The issue being was that I was already giving it all the time I could and it required MORE time to stay competitive. Both with levels and financially.
"Thus" I ended my time in Lineage 2.
Yeah, I came to the same realization, just a lot sooner than you. ;)9
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It just goes back to the type of game you want to play. My first game was Lineage 2 and it was excellent. Player relationships were important and world politics played into every day game play.
I've told this story before, but there was a huge siege (Lineage 2) that had a massive amount of clans involved. I think I counted ~34 against 37 or some such thing. I was in Lord of the Rings Online doing some things when I realized it was getting close to siege time.
I logged into Lineage 2 and energy was amazing. Especially in Aden where the siege was taking place. People running around, plans being finalized, supplies being "supplied."
It felt as if there was really something happening and made my time in Lord of the Rings Online seem dull in comparison.
"I" prefer a mmorpg to be something where people know other people and guilds and where players are affecting the world.
I played EVE Online for 10 years for just this same reason. There was just something so different and exciting there being part of this dynamic player influenced environment where I had the freedom for my characters to be whatever I could make them into.
Whether it was being a solitary mining fleet, fighting back against fierce NPC pirate or sleeper invasions, or being a part of large scale player lead wars of elimination I've never had a similar game experience.
Not even in L2 which I played much earlier than you (early 2004) mostly because on our server there was one large alliance of no lifers (you had to play a minimum of 10-12 hours a day to join them) which took over every castle.
They were nigh impossible to defeat, or even survive long in a seige as they all were at max level (at first 70, then 74) which most of the rest of the server was no where near them.
Their only real challenge was from gold farmers of all things who would wage war occasionally over control of key farming locations but never got involved in the castle seiges.
On the few occasions I ran across those battles I would join in in the side of the gold farmers.
Actually I started Lineage 2 two months after it started. Hindemith server
on himdemith the server would rise up and remove clans it didn’t like from their castles.
You weren't alternating your gameplay with Lotro back when I was playing during the game's first 6 months.
No one was going to remove the clans which controlled our server, I played regularly and was only at level 56 on my SR and struggling very hard to gear myself.
The grind was real....
I played Lineage 2 from 2 months after launch(Prelude) to just after one of the Gracia expansions. It was in my later time with the game that Lord of the Rings Online launch.
My character was in the 80's which at the time was up there but not the highest. The issue being was that I was already giving it all the time I could and it required MORE time to stay competitive. Both with levels and financially.
"Thus" I ended my time in Lineage 2.
Yeah, I came to the same realization, just a lot sooner than you. ;)9
I really did love the game, I loved the sieges, I loved the player vs player politics. I had all intentions of staying with the game but one I realized I had to run two computers, two during the day while I was at work in order to sell things and then logging in to level when I came home ... and level way into the night, I realized I was going to have to be a lot more group based to get the xp needed. That was "ok" for a bit but I just couldn't, or wouldn't, give any more time to it.
It's still the best mmorpg I've ever played.
That's why, when talk of a "Lineage 3" was being bandied about, I knew it wasn't going to be the same type of game. The current crop of players would not be interested. Especially since a good many tried Aion and complained on how long things were taking and how grindy it was.
lol.
It was a walk in the park compared to Lineage 2.
I suppose Throne and Liberty is "Lineage 3" redone isn't it?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I never understood why we're still separating PVP and PVE when SWG got it right with TEF.
Really? Sounds like it started with the same pitfalls as all the other auto-flagging systems and then said "hold my beer". From what Raph says in the linked article you couldn't even attack NPC's from the other faction without getting flagged for PvP
Quite frankly, I like the idea of a player going on a killing spree and becoming an outlaw. Including the attacking of npc's in other factions.
In Lineage 2 a "red" player would be denied services but they could go to a specific town in order to gain those services because it was an outlaw town.
Now, the developers didn't do a lot with this and it could have been a very neat feature/place, but from what I understand Lineage 2's development was a sort of "catch as catch can" of ideas. Developers would essentially bring up some idea and if it was liked it would be implemented.
While this could be a very fun and exciting way to develop a game it doesn't bode well for systems that are already in game and could be fleshed out in better ways but that don't have a developer champion who wants to do it.
Having some meaningless NPCs in town dead isn't really so bad. Being unable to turn in a completed quest for an hour because some griefer wants to keep killing the quest giver is a nuisance.
Well, obviously quest npc's wouldn't be affected. If the game has quests that is.
Perhaps they shouldn't be affected, but that's not how WoW does it, for example.
WoW was my first thought about that comment too. I remember how the Horde would come and kill all the quest NPCs in the Alliance zone trying to draw out players.
It's a PvP game. The intended response the developers are hoping for is that the opposite faction will engage in battle with the NPC killers. It's intended to foster PvP. In theory, that's why people are playing a pvp game right. Why wouldn't enemy faction NPCs be vulnerable in a pvp game?
But that's also how it works on PVE servers in WoW.
Comments
What I mean is, the two communities have a near allergic response to one another.
There is a significant playerbase (I think) that not only doesn't want PvP - it cannot be happening anywhere in the game they're playing. Same with the PvP crowd. It is a wonder to behold.
Really? Sounds like it started with the same pitfalls as all the other auto-flagging systems and then said "hold my beer". From what Raph says in the linked article you couldn't even attack NPC's from the other faction without getting flagged for PvP
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
UO had the same - a red town.
I wish they'd a chance to explore some of this more.
I get the ideas behind it, but IMHO you should never have to rely on checking a "flag" on another person, place, or thing to see if you can attack it. Rules of engagement shouldn't change minute by minute. Set those rules based on a zone so you know "When I am HERE I can do X" and "When I am THERE I can do Y"
Simple. Not confusing. And people know where to go for the experience THEY are seeking.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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If you were a super end-game heavyweight, there was a PvP zone for those players too, and they couldn't just gank a bunch of lower level players for fun.
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Well, obviously quest npc's wouldn't be affected. If the game has quests that is.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
They need to write code where if a player murders a quest giver more than once in 24hrs. the game automatically bans the account with no refunds.
I know that sounds harsh, but let's weed out the assholes early and do it without wasting GM time.
This is the entire problem, forums in many cases is just another form of PVP, so obviously it attracts alot of PVP type people. PVP community is very vocal, and devs put all these PVP things in their game based on that.
Then when all the PVE casuals show up at launch, the devs wonder why nobody likes their game. Devs need to find a way to get in touch with the Overwhelming majority of players that play games after launch. Or they will be running into these problems forever.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Whether it was being a solitary mining fleet, fighting back against fierce NPC pirate or sleeper invasions, or being a part of large scale player lead wars of elimination I've never had a similar game experience.
Not even in L2 which I played much earlier than you (early 2004) mostly because on our server there was one large alliance of no lifers (you had to play a minimum of 10-12 hours a day to join them) which took over every castle.
They were nigh impossible to defeat, or even survive long in a seige as they all were at max level (at first 70, then 74) which most of the rest of the server was no where near them.
Their only real challenge was from gold farmers of all things who would wage war occasionally over control of key farming locations but never got involved in the castle seiges.
On the few occasions I ran across those battles I would join in in the side of the gold farmers.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
on himdemith the server would rise up and remove clans it didn’t like from their castles.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
No one was going to remove the clans which controlled our server, I played regularly and was only at level 56 on my SR and struggling very hard to gear myself.
The grind was real....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo