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The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power Season 2 Is Off To A Great Start: Episodes 1-3 Review | MM

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  • LTBKLTBK Member UncommonPosts: 89
    Sovrath said:

    Oh please. I snipped what I was replying to and stand by the post.
    You know fully well that I'm not talking about making the quote shorter, but about taking it out of context to make it fit what you wanted to say despite it being completely unrelated. So, if you stand by that, you confirm that you actually did it in bad faith. Thanks  ;)
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,585
    neonblast said:
    Orks now are getting married and have kids, and don't want to go to war...yeah right..

    Tolkien is rolling into his grave so fast that if you put a dynamo on it you can power the whole West Coast :)
    Is this true?
    I saw it online but figured people were.. making it up.


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  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,406
    neonblast said:
    Orks now are getting married and have kids, and don't want to go to war...yeah right..

    Tolkien is rolling into his grave so fast that if you put a dynamo on it you can power the whole West Coast :)
    Is this true?
    I saw it online but figured people were.. making it up.


    There is a weird obsession in our society to understand "beasts", get in touch with the "beasts" feelings, and recast the "beast" as a mis-understood saint.

    You see this in every death row expose ever written.
    The guy who murdered 12 sorority girls and mailed body parts to children's charities?
    He's actually very sensitive and likes to bandage the broken wings of little birds.
    ALSO, the prosecutor in the case was kind of a meanie.

    The Anti-hero is huge right now, you see this in The Joker, Venom, and other films, such that a straight up hero is the object of ridicule.  I cannot remember the last time I saw a hero that didn't exist outside the law - often in opposition to the law.

    If the orc marriage thing is true it is another symptom of this weird obsession to make sure that something isn't depicted as being just flat out evil.

    I've not looked into the LOTR Season 2 yet, but if it gets confirmed they've an orc marriage I'll not even bother.   I hate marriage episodes anyways, and I won't sit through one with an orc.  

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    edited August 31
    LTBK said:
    Sovrath said:

    Oh please. I snipped what I was replying to and stand by the post.
    You know fully well that I'm not talking about making the quote shorter, but about taking it out of context to make it fit what you wanted to say despite it being completely unrelated. So, if you stand by that, you confirm that you actually did it in bad faith. Thanks  ;)

    Grow up, I did it to make the quote shorter.

    re-read your bits and it sounds like a rant and I don't agree with it at all.
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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    Wargfoot said:
    neonblast said:
    Orks now are getting married and have kids, and don't want to go to war...yeah right..

    Tolkien is rolling into his grave so fast that if you put a dynamo on it you can power the whole West Coast :)
    Is this true?
    I saw it online but figured people were.. making it up.


    There is a weird obsession in our society to understand "beasts", get in touch with the "beasts" feelings, and recast the "beast" as a mis-understood saint.

    You see this in every death row expose ever written.
    The guy who murdered 12 sorority girls and mailed body parts to children's charities?
    He's actually very sensitive and likes to bandage the broken wings of little birds.
    ALSO, the prosecutor in the case was kind of a meanie.

    The Anti-hero is huge right now, you see this in The Joker, Venom, and other films, such that a straight up hero is the object of ridicule.  I cannot remember the last time I saw a hero that didn't exist outside the law - often in opposition to the law.

    If the orc marriage thing is true it is another symptom of this weird obsession to make sure that something isn't depicted as being just flat out evil.

    I've not looked into the LOTR Season 2 yet, but if it gets confirmed they've an orc marriage I'll not even bother.   I hate marriage episodes anyways, and I won't sit through one with an orc.  


    I'll be honest I'm not clear on Orcs pre-hobbit but I suspect it's the show runners trying to do just that, show that the orcs are just another set of beings with lives that will be corrupted by Sauron. Except it's my understanding that they were always a corruption.

    Surely Orcs have a social structure, they must have some version of homes and I'm guessing they have to find a mate in order to make more orcs. I believe the first orcs came about by corrupting elves but I don't think that's how they are made "in perpetuity."

    But why would they get married (if that's true)? Why couldn't it be another social convention that is solely done by orcs?

    I suppose to answer my own question, it falls back on the showrunners trying to make them sympathetic to the audience as it's Sauron who is the corrupter and they are just unfortunate pawns. I think.
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  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,164
    Not sure but weren't the orcs a corrupted race of elves. Could they really have families?
    Sovrath

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    kitarad said:
    Not sure but weren't the orcs a corrupted race of elves. Could they really have families?

    That's the thing, how to they replicate if they die? Not sure if that was something that needed to be explained but apparently the show runners have their vision.
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    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,406
    Sovrath said:
    Wargfoot said:
    neonblast said:
    Orks now are getting married and have kids, and don't want to go to war...yeah right..

    Tolkien is rolling into his grave so fast that if you put a dynamo on it you can power the whole West Coast :)
    Is this true?
    I saw it online but figured people were.. making it up.


    There is a weird obsession in our society to understand "beasts", get in touch with the "beasts" feelings, and recast the "beast" as a mis-understood saint.

    You see this in every death row expose ever written.
    The guy who murdered 12 sorority girls and mailed body parts to children's charities?
    He's actually very sensitive and likes to bandage the broken wings of little birds.
    ALSO, the prosecutor in the case was kind of a meanie.

    The Anti-hero is huge right now, you see this in The Joker, Venom, and other films, such that a straight up hero is the object of ridicule.  I cannot remember the last time I saw a hero that didn't exist outside the law - often in opposition to the law.

    If the orc marriage thing is true it is another symptom of this weird obsession to make sure that something isn't depicted as being just flat out evil.

    I've not looked into the LOTR Season 2 yet, but if it gets confirmed they've an orc marriage I'll not even bother.   I hate marriage episodes anyways, and I won't sit through one with an orc.  


    I'll be honest I'm not clear on Orcs pre-hobbit but I suspect it's the show runners trying to do just that, show that the orcs are just another set of beings with lives that will be corrupted by Sauron. Except it's my understanding that they were always a corruption.

    Surely Orcs have a social structure, they must have some version of homes and I'm guessing they have to find a mate in order to make more orcs. I believe the first orcs came about by corrupting elves but I don't think that's how they are made "in perpetuity."

    But why would they get married (if that's true)? Why couldn't it be another social convention that is solely done by orcs?

    I suppose to answer my own question, it falls back on the showrunners trying to make them sympathetic to the audience as it's Sauron who is the corrupter and they are just unfortunate pawns. I think.
    Not a bad theory, my guess would be setting the stage for an orc playable race in their game.

    Whoops...sorry if I set off the cynical meter. 

    :)
    Sovrath
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    edited August 31
    Sovrath said:
    kitarad said:
    Not sure but weren't the orcs a corrupted race of elves. Could they really have families?

    That's the thing, how to they replicate if they die? Not sure if that was something that needed to be explained but apparently the show runners have their vision.
    You are correct Elves were corrupted but by "predecessors" of Sauron who were just as corrupt if not more than he was (though probably did some himself). Tolkien changes his mind frequently about the Orcs, originally they were wrought from stone. In later versions corrupted Elves and later Men were mixed in with the Orcs, becoming Orcs. But there is one clear thread that runs through all this, they are evil, a corruption of the shadow, all that lies in their hearts is hatred.

    I can see the possibility of doing a story line of Men or Elves before they became Orcs, but that would be too early for RoP, but they have Hobbits so the time line is clearly no concern for them. The Men would fit the time line better but by the time they have changed into Orcs there is nothing but hatred. So no, Orcs do not have marriages that would be farcical. 
    LTBKSovrath
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,599
    edited August 31
    neonblast said:
    Orks now are getting married and have kids, and don't want to go to war...yeah right..

    Tolkien is rolling into his grave so fast that if you put a dynamo on it you can power the whole West Coast :)
    Is this true?
    I saw it online but figured people were.. making it up.



    Yes it's true.  Guessing they want to portray them as some victimized minority.







    As an aside:


    They are a corrupted race of elves, either bred that way by the Dark Lord Morgoth, or turned savage in that manner, according to the Silmarillion.[4][5] Tolkien's orcs serve as a conveniently wholly evil enemy that could be slaughtered without mercy.



    According to this link here above  Tolkein never definitively settled on ONE origin of the orcs before he died and there several origin stories. Basically though they all agree they are an "evil" race. No matter which origin they are evil and hateful so this idea like they are doing is kind of a bad call IMO.



    Sovrath

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,050
    edited August 31
    I didn't catch the part with the orc family.  And it definitely doesn't belong in the show.    But, orcs are a lot more like humans than beasts in LOTR.  And Tolkien pretty much relagates the nastiness of Aragorn eradicating orcs in Middle Earth after the ring was destroyed to the appendices.  This would include females and children.   

    I'm also not a huge fan of pure black and white, good and evil that most Tolkien copycats adopt.

    They sound more like typical pirates or brigands in these quotes.  Self serving of low morals, but not mindless evil set on destruction.  


    No, I don’t know,’ said Gorbag’s voice. ‘The messages go through quicker than anything could fly, as a rule. But I don’t enquire how it’s done. Safest not to. Grr! Those Nazgûl give me the creeps. And they skin the body off you as soon as look at you, and leave you all cold in the dark on the other side. But He likes ’em; they’re His favourites nowadays, so it’s no use grumbling. I tell you, it’s no game serving down in the city.’

    ‘You should try being up here with Shelob for company,’ said Shagrat.

    ‘I’d like to try somewhere where there’s none of ’em. But the war’s on now, and when that’s over things may be easier.’

    ‘It’s going well, they say.’

    ‘They would,’ grunted Gorbag. ‘We’ll see. But anyway, if it does go well, there should be a lot more room. What d’you say? – if we get a chance, you and me’ll slip off and set up somewhere on our own with a few trusty lads, somewhere where there’s good loot nice and handy, and no big bosses.’

    ‘Ah!’ said Shagrat. ‘Like old times.’

    ‘Yes,’ said Gorbag. ‘But don’t count on it. I’m not easy in my mind. As I said, the Big Bosses, ay,’ his voice sank almost to a whisper, ‘ay, even the Biggest, can make mistakes. Something nearly slipped, you say. I say, something has slipped. And we’ve got to look out. Always the poor Uruks to put slips right, and small thanks. But don’t forget: the enemies don’t love us any more than they love Him, and if they get topsides on Him, we’re done too.’


    Sovrath
  • LTBKLTBK Member UncommonPosts: 89
    Sovrath said:

    Grow up, I did it to make the quote shorter.

    re-read your bits and it sounds like a rant and I don't agree with it at all.
    Nice, now you resort to ad hominem. Keep digging that hole even deeper.

    Anyway, can you quote where I talked about the technical side of the show, or that everything in the show was bad? Because I think that it was clear that both you and I were talking just about the creative side of it when we started. At least until you decided to put words in my mouth just because.

    Moreover, you kept contradicting yourself after acknowledging that someone more serious about the adaptation could had made a better job (not "perfect", as no one is talking about it having to be perfect to be good). In other words, they didn't make a good adaptation on purpose (thus it's a bad one on purpose), since the money side was covered, and that's what I've also been saying the whole time. So, where's the issue?

    And where did I rant? Is it false that, despite sparingly using sarcasm towards the show creators a couple of times, I argumented everything that I said in a serious and respectful way? I'm sorry, but... what? Or is it because I don't like someone implying that I said something that I did not, andnot only not fixing it but insisting on it?

    Are you by chance someone involved in the show and I offended you? Because otherwise I don't understand your attitude. Or was it me challenging your opinion or pointing out a contradiction what triggered you literally from the get go? You did the same with other people too, assuming things and getting defensive out of the blue. Well, I'm sorry if you worked on the show and I offended you, and I'm also sorry if you can't deal with someone disagreeing. However, I also stand by what I said about it. There's no amount of "vision" that can justify changing someone else's work on a fundamental level (see orcs, as the latest example of them even changing Tolkien's moral vision of the world he created) on purpose and without any valid reason to do so. Only a mediocre person would try to adapt anything by doing that, since that's not just a minor mistake or some change required by the new medium. If you want to make something just "inspired by", then make something original or deal with people disliking your results.

    But to each their own. I think that I made clear what I think about everything, and just as the series is not worth my time to watch it (even though it's fascinating to learn about it, kinda like watching a trainwreck), it's also not worth my time to get on an infinite argument over it with a random person on the Internet.
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,050
    edited September 1
    LTBK said:

     There's no amount of "vision" that can justify changing someone else's work on a fundamental level (see orcs, as the latest example of them even changing Tolkien's moral vision of the world he created) on purpose and without any valid reason to do so. Only a mediocre person would try to adapt anything by doing that, since that's not just a minor mistake or some change required by the new medium. If you want to make something just "inspired by", then make something original or deal with people disliking your results.

    But to each their own. I think that I made clear what I think about everything, and just as the series is not worth my time to watch it (even though it's fascinating to learn about it, kinda like watching a trainwreck), it's also not worth my time to get on an infinite argument over it with a random person on the Internet.

    In some case the streaming networks themselves mandate fundamental changes to an IP when showrunners make an adaptation.  Henry Cavill is fighting over this right now with Amazon, who happens to be the worst offender in this regard.  They are trying to force him to create female warriors in a Warhammer 40k company that doesn't make sense as well as making existing female warriors that don't speak now speak.  They have a checklist of what every show must have, yet buy the rights to IPs that definitely don't meet those requirements.

    Amazon brought in a showrunner for Wheel of Time that finds many aspects of it problematic.  Yet he says he love the novel series.  They spent an entire episode creating love story of a warder that didn't exist in the novels.  And most certainly didn't improve the story.  He hired some writers that had never even read the books and some who had but didn't like them.  

    Galadriel could have been a strong female character without becoming a much younger looking and less mature/confident warrior princess.  Humanizing Sauron is just a terrible idea all around and his entire human form story arc was a detriment to the story.  What we see of him in Elf form is almost as unsubtle as Euron Greyjoy was in HBO's Game of Thrones.  He's supposed to be a master manipulator and deceiver yet comes across as a mustache twirling villain of old.  They should of just had him first appear in his elf form, and not rescued by Galadriel. 

    My biggest issues with RoP is that they've created so much fanfiction for their show and emphasized mystery over straightforward storytelling.  Peter Jackson didn't try to keep book fans guessing with his LOTR films.  He pretty much told it as written.  Who cares if many would know who Annatar was?  Did it matter that many knew who Aragorn was when he appeared in the Prancing Pony?  

    The RoP showrunners stated they had the rights to everything they needed to tell the story.  Yet seemed to leave out that they didn't actually have the rights to anything not in the appendices.  And that they'd HAVE to change the story so as not to conflict with what Tolkien actually wrote in works published after his death.

    House of The Dragon is clearly run by people that did not appreciate the source material and feel the story needed to be changed to one not between warring dragon riders but two mothers.  He had the entire plot laid out yet they felt they could do better.

    In the end, if you don't love the source material, you shouldn't be handed the keys to the adaptation.  Make something else all your own in that case.

    LTBKAsm0deusScot
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    edited September 1
    LTBK said:
    Sovrath said:

    Grow up, I did it to make the quote shorter.

    re-read your bits and it sounds like a rant and I don't agree with it at all.


    Moreover, you kept contradicting yourself after acknowledging that someone more serious about the adaptation could had made a better job (not "perfect", as no one is talking about it having to be perfect to be good). In other words, they didn't make a good adaptation on purpose (thus it's a bad one on purpose), since the money side was covered, and that's what I've also been saying the whole time. So, where's the issue?


    No, I don't keep contradicting myself.

    To illustrate, let's go to Lord of the Rings Online for a sec ...

    I don't think there should be rune keepers or Lore masters. At all. Actually, as much as I prefer playing elves I've said that perhaps only humans should be the playable race and that they should interact with the other races as npc's. That to me would be a better adaptation of the IP for an mmorpg.

    However, the developers have other concerns.

    Players are going to have expectations, there are people who have always longed to play hobbits. Or Elves ... or Dwarves.

    The original game was more of a sandbox but a lot of players don't like sandbox games. So, they create a theme park game with a made up story that runs parallel to the original story.

    Is any of that really "good?" I don't think so. But I do think it was a good decision because they are going to want to entice players to play the game. It was the right decision. And they worked hard on the game. At least in the first few years.

    Same with this TV show. They did a rendition that they thought was right. They worked hard on it and they tried to make it so that fans as well as non-fans might like it.

    Was it good? I think parts were very good and a lot not so much. But that doesn't mean they didn't try to make the best adaptation they could. That is "their" adaptation, based off what they felt was the best way to adapt it. Not mine. Theirs.

    So, could the TV show have been more faithful to the lore and the characters? Yes. Would that have been better? Maybe to some and perhaps not to all. I don't doubt for a second they didn't think they were doing their best work and that they put in their all.

    For someone who wants a different adaptation that's not going to be the sentiment.

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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    edited September 1
    Guys lets remember to: Keep Calm And Carry On Posting!
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,585
    Sovrath said:
    LTBK said:
    Sovrath said:

    Grow up, I did it to make the quote shorter.

    re-read your bits and it sounds like a rant and I don't agree with it at all.


    Moreover, you kept contradicting yourself after acknowledging that someone more serious about the adaptation could had made a better job (not "perfect", as no one is talking about it having to be perfect to be good). In other words, they didn't make a good adaptation on purpose (thus it's a bad one on purpose), since the money side was covered, and that's what I've also been saying the whole time. So, where's the issue?




    So, could the TV show have been more faithful to the lore and the characters? Yes. Would that have been better? Maybe to some and perhaps not to all. I don't doubt for a second they didn't think they were doing their best work and that they put in their all.


    I would say that often folks make shows a social cause.  And this becomes the driving force in their discussions, views, changes, etc. When you are making changes with the prime focus being to project some external, social viewpoint on race, sex, religion, whatever… then you are doing a disservice to the IP. 

    They also have a mirror image out there where people will simply crap on a change because of those same social causes.  And if that becomes your primary reasoning and you ignore the fact it made a better/tighter show then you are just as wrong. 

    For me, I’ll go back to WoT.  The changes they made IMHO are frequently rooted in the desire to use the IP as a platform for pushing their own social constructs.  Some of the changes they made  are just so disconnected to the foundational story (The male/female sides of the Source as an example) that it damages the show. 

    When I looked at RoP it seemed like many of the changes were following the same path.  But where I kept watching WoT because I spent years reading those books, I really had little connection to the characters or story in RoP and never got past Episode one. 

    I dunno.   My daughter asked me last night if I wanted to give RoP another shot.  Maybe…. Not feeling a strong need to try it but also not a definite no.  Is ambivalence better?  Dunno.


    Sovrath

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    Sovrath said:
    LTBK said:
    Sovrath said:

    Grow up, I did it to make the quote shorter.

    re-read your bits and it sounds like a rant and I don't agree with it at all.


    Moreover, you kept contradicting yourself after acknowledging that someone more serious about the adaptation could had made a better job (not "perfect", as no one is talking about it having to be perfect to be good). In other words, they didn't make a good adaptation on purpose (thus it's a bad one on purpose), since the money side was covered, and that's what I've also been saying the whole time. So, where's the issue?




    So, could the TV show have been more faithful to the lore and the characters? Yes. Would that have been better? Maybe to some and perhaps not to all. I don't doubt for a second they didn't think they were doing their best work and that they put in their all.


    I would say that often folks make shows a social cause.  And this becomes the driving force in their discussions, views, changes, etc. When you are making changes with the prime focus being to project some external, social viewpoint on race, sex, religion, whatever… then you are doing a disservice to the IP. 

    They also have a mirror image out there where people will simply crap on a change because of those same social causes.  And if that becomes your primary reasoning and you ignore the fact it made a better/tighter show then you are just as wrong. 

    For me, I’ll go back to WoT.  The changes they made IMHO are frequently rooted in the desire to use the IP as a platform for pushing their own social constructs.  Some of the changes they made  are just so disconnected to the foundational story (The male/female sides of the Source as an example) that it damages the show. 

    When I looked at RoP it seemed like many of the changes were following the same path.  But where I kept watching WoT because I spent years reading those books, I really had little connection to the characters or story in RoP and never got past Episode one. 

    I dunno.   My daughter asked me last night if I wanted to give RoP another shot.  Maybe…. Not feeling a strong need to try it but also not a definite no.  Is ambivalence better?  Dunno.



    I think social issues  and social concerns have always made their way into films.

    I don't know if we notice it more because we're living it and therefore see it discussed as well as live through it in our daily lives or whether today's writers are more heavy handed.

    I'll be honest, I've never been one to think that some social issue should be addressed in a property that wasn't about that issue.

    Then again, some might argue that adding these things to movies start a dialogue, both good and bad and that spurring discussion is always a good thing.

    For me, my biggest gripe about Wheel of Time (as far as changes) which I somewhat understand, is making it so Morraine doesn't know who the dragon is so she takes all four of them. In my opinion it's better writing than her automatically knowing who the dragon is. Even Robert Jordan (or so I've heard) didn't think the first book was fully baked. Who knows if he wouldn't make that and other changes if he had to do it again.

    But at first I found that change bad as it was a change that I initially thought didn't need to change.

    I don't like the whole "Perrin was married" bit though I understand they wanted to give him some sort of character arc as he dealt with it. I still don't think it was needed.
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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,585
    Of course social issues have always been a part of films but there’s a dramatic difference between an author weaving that into their story and a “showrunner” changing the original in order to use it as a platform for their own social views. 

    At least to me.  

    But it’s a free market.  Folks buy the IP rights they can use them as they like. At the end of the day if they lose or leave money on the table… that’s on them. 


    SovrathHengistScot

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  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,050
    I would say that often folks make shows a social cause.  And this becomes the driving force in their discussions, views, changes, etc. When you are making changes with the prime focus being to project some external, social viewpoint on race, sex, religion, whatever… then you are doing a disservice to the IP. 

    They also have a mirror image out there where people will simply crap on a change because of those same social causes.  And if that becomes your primary reasoning and you ignore the fact it made a better/tighter show then you are just as wrong. 

    For me, I’ll go back to WoT.  The changes they made IMHO are frequently rooted in the desire to use the IP as a platform for pushing their own social constructs.  Some of the changes they made  are just so disconnected to the foundational story (The male/female sides of the Source as an example) that it damages the show. 

    When I looked at RoP it seemed like many of the changes were following the same path.  But where I kept watching WoT because I spent years reading those books, I really had little connection to the characters or story in RoP and never got past Episode one. 

    I dunno.   My daughter asked me last night if I wanted to give RoP another shot.  Maybe…. Not feeling a strong need to try it but also not a definite no.  Is ambivalence better?  Dunno.



    The WoT is very disappointing but I felt like the show improved enough in the second season to stick with it even as a book lover(well the first five books at least). 

    The Witcher just got really dull and I didn't watch Cavill's last season knowing he was quitting over how the show was being written and my not being even slightly curious on where it was heading  I have never read the books or played the games.

    Shannara was the lowest quality fantasy adaptation of the bunch, other than that Sword of Truth soft porn show.  I quit it after the first season, not because it didn't resemble the source material, but because it was cheap and uncompelling.

    House of the Dragon was pretty good in the first season but the second season has been a complete miss other than a few memorable scenes.  I'll give it another chance in Season 3.  I have not read the source material on it but have become aware of some of what was changed, and they correspond with the worst parts of the show.

    I loved the Fallout show but haven't played the games.  Walton Goggins is always great and Ella Purnell was amazing as well.  I thought it was fun.  It really helps when you have two compelling and well acting actors

    Rings of Power was barely competent at it's best in Season 1.  The first episode of Season 2 wasn't terrible but I found myself fast forwarding in episode 2 and just couldn't take the dull characters and plotlines in episode 3.  I don't see myself continuing unless there's an episode with widespread praise and then I'll jump to it.  I honestly don't like any of the characters or care what happens.  Creating mystery boxes that break lore just doesn't interest me. 


  • xanthouscrownxanthouscrown Member UncommonPosts: 13
    edited September 1
    Sovrath said:
    kitarad said:
    Not sure but weren't the orcs a corrupted race of elves. Could they really have families?

    That's the thing, how to they replicate if they die? Not sure if that was something that needed to be explained but apparently the show runners have their vision.

    Orcs, like Elves and Men, multiply by having children, as explained in the Silmarillion Chapter 3:

         "But of those unhappy ones who were ensnared by Melkor little is known of a certainty. For who of the living has descended into the pits of Utumno, or has explored the darkness of the counsels of Melkor? Yet this is held true by the wise of Eressëa, that all those of the Quendi who came into the hands of Melkor, ere Utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs in envy and mockery of the Elves, of whom they were afterwards the bitterest foes. For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar; and naught that had life of its own, nor the semblance of life, could ever Melkor make since his rebellion in the Ainulindalë before the Beginning: so say the wise. And deep in their dark hearts the Orcs loathed the Master whom they served in fear, the maker only of their misery. This it may be was the vilest deed of Melkor, and the most hateful to Ilúvatar."

  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,406
    Half way through the third season you'll have rangers apologizing to Orcs for genocide.

    Sovrath
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
    Wargfoot said:
    Half way through the third season you'll have rangers apologizing to Orcs for genocide.


    Really?!?!?!?
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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    Sovrath said:
    kitarad said:
    Not sure but weren't the orcs a corrupted race of elves. Could they really have families?

    That's the thing, how to they replicate if they die? Not sure if that was something that needed to be explained but apparently the show runners have their vision.

    Orcs, like Elves and Men, multiply by having children, as explained in the Silmarillion Chapter 3:

         "But of those unhappy ones who were ensnared by Melkor little is known of a certainty. For who of the living has descended into the pits of Utumno, or has explored the darkness of the counsels of Melkor? Yet this is held true by the wise of Eressëa, that all those of the Quendi who came into the hands of Melkor, ere Utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs in envy and mockery of the Elves, of whom they were afterwards the bitterest foes. For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar; and naught that had life of its own, nor the semblance of life, could ever Melkor make since his rebellion in the Ainulindalë before the Beginning: so say the wise. And deep in their dark hearts the Orcs loathed the Master whom they served in fear, the maker only of their misery. This it may be was the vilest deed of Melkor, and the most hateful to Ilúvatar."

    Welcome to the forums! :)

    Yes, there is no question that after Orcs were created they went on to progenate descendants.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    edited September 2
    As we are talking of adaptations I just saw the first episode of Kaos, from the first sentence it distorted the Greek myths and that was almost a theme. But the script is good, the acting is good, the humour is good, even the music they selected is good. So it gets a thumbs up from me.

    Which brings me to a golden rule about adaptions, if you are going to change something it has to be as good as what you replaced otherwise what is the point?
  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,406
    Sovrath said:
    Wargfoot said:
    Half way through the third season you'll have rangers apologizing to Orcs for genocide.


    Really?!?!?!?
    I kid you not... there will be an apology to a mis-understood orc.
    I wish I had some spare cash to place a bet, but all my money is tied up in failing indie games.
    Sovrath
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