Simple incompetence tbh. Server meshing has been done by The Elder Scrolls online and world of warcraft for over 10 years now.
Pretty wrong here.
Many MMOs have done a mesh of servers in an instanced setup like ESO and GW2 where it opens many copies of the same map, or it opens phasing instances on overcrowded areas (like WOW, with the general rule of loading screens, and scripted phasing into a new server and its simulation state.
Which is why in WoW when phasing happens, all NPCs and such will sync to the state of the new server as it's an instanced copy of the same area isolated from the other one.
In here what SC is doing is an actual seamless server mesh within a SINGLE SIMULATION, this means, servers transition as you move in the world, you can be mid-action as this happens as well, and there is a single simulation on that one game-world shard, it won't put player a) in server 1 and player b) on the same location on server 2, as that is the instancing setup that MMOs do achieve scalability.
On top of this, SC is going for dynamic meshing, in short this upgrades the static meshing to actually scale the size of the areas simulated, based on population density, so if a station has many players it can have one entire server scale to just simulate that station/area, yet if that entire area planet/moons are on low population, that same server can scale up to simulate that larger area instead.
In a nutshell, the high challenge of this server mesh is the seamless aspect of it, having to cope with very complex scenarios . Say you have an FPS/dogfight across servers with everything syncing properly and even projectiles crossing servers (which was already possible on recent tests), such scenarios are not a thing on mainstream MMOs like ESO or GW2, as the general rule of them is either loading screen instancing, or phasing a player into a new instance.
This tech is also not something that hasn't been already done, but it's not a "this is normal stuff" either, it's still very much a developing thing, years ago everyone was hype about SpacialOS and then every major project that picked it up has been cancelled or changed solutions, we're still very much a WIP until tech like this becomes the norm for MMOs.
Here is a simple way of understanding EVERYTHING -
The effect you seek (server meshing) in the world is a DELUSION fostered by living in a world where ILLUSION has become more effective and economical for the SELLERS than something REAL.
Server Meshing WILL NEVER WORK the way you THINK it should for CLIENTS ON A HIGH LATENCY NETWORK (internet)
Why would any of us feel sad when we keep winning*Whining every year?
We get it, your hardware is old and obsolete to enjoy gaming, you don't have much patience for games anymore, can't learn basic
key-binds to be able to fly. Heck, doubt you can even learn your way
into finding your ship, bitterness it's all you got lol
Server Meshing WILL NEVER WORK the way you THINK it should for CLIENTS ON A HIGH LATENCY NETWORK (internet)
Server meshing is not changing the latency question, neither does any game-server for that matter, especially those that have FPS play and such.
There isn't specific factors that server mesh introduces that mean it's bad for players with higher latency than you playing on the live game servers right now, you're connected to the same replication service that's going to split the simulation areas towards different simulation nodes, you're not connected directly to the server doing the simulation as is.
Server Meshing WILL NEVER WORK the way you THINK it should for CLIENTS ON A HIGH LATENCY NETWORK (internet)
Server meshing is not changing the latency question, neither does any game-server for that matter, especially those that have FPS play and such.
There isn't specific factors that server mesh introduces that mean it's bad for players with higher latency than you playing on the live game servers right now, you're connected to the same replication service that's going to split the simulation areas towards different simulation nodes, you're not connected directly to the server doing the simulation as is.
Thanks for the additional information.
As a 'doubter', it is difficult to not see this as a diversion away from actually producing a game. Once the game is released it won't be possible to sell the masses on future updates or tech developments. Like a mirage, the win seems to always be on the horizon.
Hytale is doing much the same thing, always doing a major rewrite of something and not simply releasing. A case of perfect being the enemy of good.
All that changes upon release of an awesome product.
It doesn't impact me as I've no interest in this title outside of forum drama.
Some people may enjoy playing alpha for the next 25 years. There is literally nothing wrong with that.
I will laugh with the first developer who retires from SC having put in 30 years. He'll say, "Oh, I joined the team during Alpha 3.3 and left at Alpha 56.8"
Like I said, what do yall care? This is suppose to be a place SC players/fan should be able to talk about updates. You just come here to shit talk. That is why this site is just about dead, I only come here because I have for a long time.
As someone who has been on large projects with hundreds of designers/engineers, sometimes international, with years in development I take a professional interest in the project management side of this game development. As my sig says, I've been in high tech now for about 50 years.
I spent two years on a huge international development in Germany, France, UK, and multiple design centers in the US. I left because I didn't believe in the management, and a year after I left they canceled the project. We estimated $800 million was lost with no product to show for it. SC is approaching that number and it makes me interested.
As for the game, I really hope they succeed. I enjoyed the Wing Commander games and really loved Privateer and Freelancer. I don't "hate" the game at all, I want it to come out and be great.
Roberts is a vainglorious and pompous stuffed shirt. He had to be rescued from his incompetence in WC1, both managerial and in programming. He wasn't picked to helm WC2. On WC3 and 4, he spent most of his time playing pretend movie director. Privateer was done by a different crew. Freelancer had to be rescued from Roberts managerial and financial incompetence at Digital Anvil as well. And since these things apparently have not changed over the years, the outcome is certainly hazy, ask again later.
You know this, of course. Preaching to the choir. It's still just a sign that he's probably not the best chance for such a game to realistically get delivered. Hell, they can't even deliver the single player game, despite it being hugely less difficult than SC.
Though maybe the Calders....
Yet somehow, despite all that I still liked the Wing Commander movie (yes.. I KNOW it was bad!), and when I hear the music and watch the Bishop speech video, I WANT to believe!
PS: I can't believe that video is now 8 years old... sigh
The game, as described, is glorious.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Simple incompetence tbh. Server meshing has been done by The Elder Scrolls online and world of warcraft for over 10 years now.
Pretty wrong here.
Many MMOs have done a mesh of servers in an instanced setup like ESO and GW2 where it opens many copies of the same map, or it opens phasing instances on overcrowded areas (like WOW, with the general rule of loading screens, and scripted phasing into a new server and its simulation state.
Which is why in WoW when phasing happens, all NPCs and such will sync to the state of the new server as it's an instanced copy of the same area isolated from the other one.
In here what SC is doing is an actual seamless server mesh within a SINGLE SIMULATION, this means, servers transition as you move in the world, you can be mid-action as this happens as well, and there is a single simulation on that one game-world shard, it won't put player a) in server 1 and player b) on the same location on server 2, as that is the instancing setup that MMOs do achieve scalability.
On top of this, SC is going for dynamic meshing, in short this upgrades the static meshing to actually scale the size of the areas simulated, based on population density, so if a station has many players it can have one entire server scale to just simulate that station/area, yet if that entire area planet/moons are on low population, that same server can scale up to simulate that larger area instead.
In a nutshell, the high challenge of this server mesh is the seamless aspect of it, having to cope with very complex scenarios . Say you have an FPS/dogfight across servers with everything syncing properly and even projectiles crossing servers (which was already possible on recent tests), such scenarios are not a thing on mainstream MMOs like ESO or GW2, as the general rule of them is either loading screen instancing, or phasing a player into a new instance.
This tech is also not something that hasn't been already done, but it's not a "this is normal stuff" either, it's still very much a developing thing, years ago everyone was hype about SpacialOS and then every major project that picked it up has been cancelled or changed solutions, we're still very much a WIP until tech like this becomes the norm for MMOs.
Very insightful but do you think that this level of server meshing is that important to having a solid game with great gameplay? Speaking as someone who is not even bothered about loading screens between zones I am trying to see the huge advantage of this which is worth all the time and effort?
Simple incompetence tbh. Server meshing has been done by The Elder Scrolls online and world of warcraft for over 10 years now.
Pretty wrong here.
Many MMOs have done a mesh of servers in an instanced setup like ESO and GW2 where it opens many copies of the same map, or it opens phasing instances on overcrowded areas (like WOW, with the general rule of loading screens, and scripted phasing into a new server and its simulation state.
Which is why in WoW when phasing happens, all NPCs and such will sync to the state of the new server as it's an instanced copy of the same area isolated from the other one.
In here what SC is doing is an actual seamless server mesh within a SINGLE SIMULATION, this means, servers transition as you move in the world, you can be mid-action as this happens as well, and there is a single simulation on that one game-world shard, it won't put player a) in server 1 and player b) on the same location on server 2, as that is the instancing setup that MMOs do achieve scalability.
On top of this, SC is going for dynamic meshing, in short this upgrades the static meshing to actually scale the size of the areas simulated, based on population density, so if a station has many players it can have one entire server scale to just simulate that station/area, yet if that entire area planet/moons are on low population, that same server can scale up to simulate that larger area instead.
In a nutshell, the high challenge of this server mesh is the seamless aspect of it, having to cope with very complex scenarios . Say you have an FPS/dogfight across servers with everything syncing properly and even projectiles crossing servers (which was already possible on recent tests), such scenarios are not a thing on mainstream MMOs like ESO or GW2, as the general rule of them is either loading screen instancing, or phasing a player into a new instance.
This tech is also not something that hasn't been already done, but it's not a "this is normal stuff" either, it's still very much a developing thing, years ago everyone was hype about SpacialOS and then every major project that picked it up has been cancelled or changed solutions, we're still very much a WIP until tech like this becomes the norm for MMOs.
Very insightful but do you think that this level of server meshing is that important to having a solid game with great gameplay? Speaking as someone who is not even bothered about loading screens between zones I am trying to see the huge advantage of this which is worth all the time and effort?
I think the goal shouldn't always be to just make a fun and cool game. While thats a huge W, pushing the envelope is important. Many companies will fail and few will succeed. SC's goal is important to all online gamers imo. Server meshing's ability to scale and optimize servers seamlessly is going to help reduce server stress while at the same time keep servers lively and active.
My biggest frustration with a ton of MMOs is the server latency. If SC can produce a MMO with great server stability, it will broaden the technical foundation for the industry's future.
Comments
Many MMOs have done a mesh of servers in an instanced setup like ESO and GW2 where it opens many copies of the same map, or it opens phasing instances on overcrowded areas (like WOW, with the general rule of loading screens, and scripted phasing into a new server and its simulation state.
Which is why in WoW when phasing happens, all NPCs and such will sync to the state of the new server as it's an instanced copy of the same area isolated from the other one.
In here what SC is doing is an actual seamless server mesh within a SINGLE SIMULATION, this means, servers transition as you move in the world, you can be mid-action as this happens as well, and there is a single simulation on that one game-world shard, it won't put player a) in server 1 and player b) on the same location on server 2, as that is the instancing setup that MMOs do achieve scalability.
On top of this, SC is going for dynamic meshing, in short this upgrades the static meshing to actually scale the size of the areas simulated, based on population density, so if a station has many players it can have one entire server scale to just simulate that station/area, yet if that entire area planet/moons are on low population, that same server can scale up to simulate that larger area instead.
In a nutshell, the high challenge of this server mesh is the seamless aspect of it, having to cope with very complex scenarios . Say you have an FPS/dogfight across servers with everything syncing properly and even projectiles crossing servers (which was already possible on recent tests), such scenarios are not a thing on mainstream MMOs like ESO or GW2, as the general rule of them is either loading screen instancing, or phasing a player into a new instance.
This tech is also not something that hasn't been already done, but it's not a "this is normal stuff" either, it's still very much a developing thing, years ago everyone was hype about SpacialOS and then every major project that picked it up has been cancelled or changed solutions, we're still very much a WIP until tech like this becomes the norm for MMOs.
The effect you seek (server meshing) in the world is a DELUSION fostered by living in a world where ILLUSION has become more effective and economical for the SELLERS than something REAL.
Server Meshing WILL NEVER WORK the way you THINK it should for CLIENTS ON A HIGH LATENCY NETWORK (internet)
Server meshing is not changing the latency question, neither does any game-server for that matter, especially those that have FPS play and such.
There isn't specific factors that server mesh introduces that mean it's bad for players with higher latency than you playing on the live game servers right now, you're connected to the same replication service that's going to split the simulation areas towards different simulation nodes, you're not connected directly to the server doing the simulation as is.
As a 'doubter', it is difficult to not see this as a diversion away from actually producing a game. Once the game is released it won't be possible to sell the masses on future updates or tech developments. Like a mirage, the win seems to always be on the horizon.
Hytale is doing much the same thing, always doing a major rewrite of something and not simply releasing. A case of perfect being the enemy of good.
All that changes upon release of an awesome product.
It doesn't impact me as I've no interest in this title outside of forum drama.
Some people may enjoy playing alpha for the next 25 years.
There is literally nothing wrong with that.
I will laugh with the first developer who retires from SC having put in 30 years. He'll say, "Oh, I joined the team during Alpha 3.3 and left at Alpha 56.8"
The game, as described, is glorious.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
My biggest frustration with a ton of MMOs is the server latency. If SC can produce a MMO with great server stability, it will broaden the technical foundation for the industry's future.