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Ashes of Creation Previews Lionhold Starting City and Alpha Two Guide Ahead of Next Month's Start |

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  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,406
    edited October 2
    I was impressed with the technical notes they had provided awhile back about server lines and such.  I still think the biggest issue is open world PvP - I hope the developer braces for backlash.

    Backlash doesn't mean they're wrong or the design is bad, but I'd force users to sign a consent form FIRST proving they understand the rules before logging in - and suggesting they refund before logging in if they don't like the rules.

    I want to see this:

    Carebear: "This game sucks, I was murdered and PimpMasta took my stuff".
    Developer: "You signed a consent form that explained the rules."
    Carebear: "So, I didn't sign up for this nonsense"
    Developer: [Swings Ban Hammer]

    ^--- You'll have an absolute ton of these losers come launch.  Ban early, ban often.  Get them out, they'll rot the community.
    Scot
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,976
    Is it FFA PVP?
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,875
    Is it FFA PVP?
    PvP is always turned on but with rules. You can flag for I am open for being attacked at any time. Or I am not in the mood for consensual PvP. If you attack someone thats flagged they dont feel like PvP and they attack you anyways. That player becomes corrupted. This has a big impact on the corrupted player. They are listed below. 

    1. Debuff that makes corrupted players easier to kill. The more they do this the more stacks of this debuff happens till a level 1 player could pawn them

    2. When you willing PvP and you die, you do drop something called glint and a % of your gathering goods. When a corrupted player gets killed, they also drop gear and a greater % of glint and harvested mats. 

    3. The above being said, when you are corrupted. You show up as a little red dot on the map that everyone can see. Everyone will be coming for your stuff.

    4. When corrupted you can just log off to wait out the corruption. You need to earn exp or die at the hands of a players to remove corruption.
     
    5. Corrupted players can not enter safe areas. They must stay in the wilds. 

    6. There is skill lines you can progress that make it easier to find, kill and hunt corrupted players. Every player in the game can do this. 

    7. There is a bounty system in the game that will reward you for taking out corrupted players. 

    8. Corrupted players have all skills related to CC greyed out. They cant CC, snare, root or stun players once they are corrupted. 
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,585
    Nanfoodle said:



    Nanfoodle said:



    Scot said:




    goemoe said:


    1-2 years to release? I doubt it. They will find reasons to create Alpha 3 or 4, monitize it and then go for the thrilling "AI powered Unreal 6" to make the game as they envision it and the never ending story starts over.





    8 Years to Alpha 1/2... as long as they are able to sell some Beta 1-4 accounts, the won't release the game.




    That is not impossible, we have seen the finish line kicked into the grass so many times on so many projects.






    Steven has said A2 is the last alpha and will turn into the test server once they start Beta 1 and Beta 2 servers. Could they go another 4 years in A2, sure. Steven has said though. Being a UE5 game, they know they have a window to when launching they would be relevant. No sense going 5-7 years more when the game will get a dated tag because they release after UE6 drops. Also, Steven is getting some money from the fan but he is also putting in his own money. They are at about 250 staff now and still hiring. Thats not the mark of a developer trying to dig in like SC. His staff are getting paid between 100k to 200k a year and his staff get bonuses for the speed they make things. Forever Alpha does not make sense.


    Stephen's supposed "up to $30M" is long since gone.  If it ever even materialized.  And we have no visibility on if he paid himself back from the funding. Dude is not a billionaire.  Even with all the Xango juice he supposedly sold as a miracle cure (or more accurately, recruited people to sell and funnel money up to him).

    Alpha 1, Alpha 2, Beta 1, Beta 2... Early Access..  All just words anymore.  As I said, I do believe they "launch" in around 18 months but what that consists of or looks like... I have no idea.




    I agree with what you said but maybe my point I was trying to make did not come across. If Steven was trying to prolong development why does he keep growing the staff and incentivizing them to work quicker with bonuses for doing so? Why would he miss a launch that would make the game relevant with UE5? He has about 2-5 years to make that happen or he has just lost allot of money for what? I get he may but looking at the facts, it does not make sense. Im not saying he does not bend and sometimes break the truth. Just the facts dont line up what the comment I responded to.
    I don't know if he has lost any money at all.  As far as we know he may have paid himself back everything he put into the game plus millions.  No visibility on finances (which is the norm for these crowdfunded projects).

    He could literally shut down and potentially still have made millions.   Dunno.

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,585
    Nanfoodle said:
    Is it FFA PVP?
    PvP is always turned on but with rules. You can flag for I am open for being attacked at any time. Or I am not in the mood for consensual PvP. If you attack someone thats flagged they dont feel like PvP and they attack you anyways. That player becomes corrupted. This has a big impact on the corrupted player. They are listed below. 

    1. Debuff that makes corrupted players easier to kill. The more they do this the more stacks of this debuff happens till a level 1 player could pawn them

    2. When you willing PvP and you die, you do drop something called glint and a % of your gathering goods. When a corrupted player gets killed, they also drop gear and a greater % of glint and harvested mats. 

    3. The above being said, when you are corrupted. You show up as a little red dot on the map that everyone can see. Everyone will be coming for your stuff.

    4. When corrupted you can just log off to wait out the corruption. You need to earn exp or die at the hands of a players to remove corruption.
     
    5. Corrupted players can not enter safe areas. They must stay in the wilds. 

    6. There is skill lines you can progress that make it easier to find, kill and hunt corrupted players. Every player in the game can do this. 

    7. There is a bounty system in the game that will reward you for taking out corrupted players. 

    8. Corrupted players have all skills related to CC greyed out. They cant CC, snare, root or stun players once they are corrupted. 
    These systems always seem to stumble when confronted with groups and who is in a group, who is out of a group etc...

    For instance.. if I am in a group with Bob, and PimpMasta attacks Bob... can I fight back too?

    Or.. I am in a group with Pimpmasta and he attacks Bob, do I get corruption too?

    Or I am out of group but stand and heal Pimpmasta as he attacks Bob.  What happens to me?

    Or... can PimpMasta and I go gank Bob.  Then take turns logging in our "blue" characters to kill each other and remove corruption and farm our own bounties?


    We will see how it plays out in Alpha

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,406
    Nanfoodle said:
    Is it FFA PVP?
    PvP is always turned on but with rules. You can flag for I am open for being attacked at any time. Or I am not in the mood for consensual PvP. If you attack someone thats flagged they dont feel like PvP and they attack you anyways. That player becomes corrupted. This has a big impact on the corrupted player. They are listed below. 

    1. Debuff that makes corrupted players easier to kill. The more they do this the more stacks of this debuff happens till a level 1 player could pawn them

    2. When you willing PvP and you die, you do drop something called glint and a % of your gathering goods. When a corrupted player gets killed, they also drop gear and a greater % of glint and harvested mats. 

    3. The above being said, when you are corrupted. You show up as a little red dot on the map that everyone can see. Everyone will be coming for your stuff.

    4. When corrupted you can just log off to wait out the corruption. You need to earn exp or die at the hands of a players to remove corruption.
     
    5. Corrupted players can not enter safe areas. They must stay in the wilds. 

    6. There is skill lines you can progress that make it easier to find, kill and hunt corrupted players. Every player in the game can do this. 

    7. There is a bounty system in the game that will reward you for taking out corrupted players. 

    8. Corrupted players have all skills related to CC greyed out. They cant CC, snare, root or stun players once they are corrupted. 
    While obviously heavily dependent upon implementation, I've not seen these ideas work to a degree that didn't end up killing lawless PvP entirely.  See the https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/506064/the-wargfoot-rule
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,875
    edited October 2
    Nanfoodle said:
    Is it FFA PVP?
    PvP is always turned on but with rules. You can flag for I am open for being attacked at any time. Or I am not in the mood for consensual PvP. If you attack someone thats flagged they dont feel like PvP and they attack you anyways. That player becomes corrupted. This has a big impact on the corrupted player. They are listed below. 

    1. Debuff that makes corrupted players easier to kill. The more they do this the more stacks of this debuff happens till a level 1 player could pawn them

    2. When you willing PvP and you die, you do drop something called glint and a % of your gathering goods. When a corrupted player gets killed, they also drop gear and a greater % of glint and harvested mats. 

    3. The above being said, when you are corrupted. You show up as a little red dot on the map that everyone can see. Everyone will be coming for your stuff.

    4. When corrupted you can just log off to wait out the corruption. You need to earn exp or die at the hands of a players to remove corruption.
     
    5. Corrupted players can not enter safe areas. They must stay in the wilds. 

    6. There is skill lines you can progress that make it easier to find, kill and hunt corrupted players. Every player in the game can do this. 

    7. There is a bounty system in the game that will reward you for taking out corrupted players. 

    8. Corrupted players have all skills related to CC greyed out. They cant CC, snare, root or stun players once they are corrupted. 
    These systems always seem to stumble when confronted with groups and who is in a group, who is out of a group etc...

    For instance.. if I am in a group with Bob, and PimpMasta attacks Bob... can I fight back too?

    Or.. I am in a group with Pimpmasta and he attacks Bob, do I get corruption too?

    Or I am out of group but stand and heal Pimpmasta as he attacks Bob.  What happens to me?

    Or... can PimpMasta and I go gank Bob.  Then take turns logging in our "blue" characters to kill each other and remove corruption and farm our own bounties?


    We will see how it plays out in Alpha

    Good questions. My guess is during A2 people will be doing things just like this but.. the point remains. IS is taking steps to make sure this is not a game about FFA ganking. Trying to pull this off will still be a risk. Players will see you on the map and come for you. Corrupted players will be free loot. Will people really take that risk? My guess it will be just like Linage II. Very few people ganked with this flagging system and IS has added even more depth to that system that I have listed above. 

    Biggest thing, unlike most modern games that rely entirely on data to catch people playing outside intended game play. Every server in Ashes will have live GMs. You find a way to work outside intended game play. Action will be taken by the GMs. 

    Of the concerns I have about Ashes, this one is minor, even if you have no desire to be ganked. This is something I have complete confidence in IS to handle. Now I could make a much bigger list of the things I am concerned about.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,585
    Nanfoodle said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Is it FFA PVP?
    PvP is always turned on but with rules. You can flag for I am open for being attacked at any time. Or I am not in the mood for consensual PvP. If you attack someone thats flagged they dont feel like PvP and they attack you anyways. That player becomes corrupted. This has a big impact on the corrupted player. They are listed below. 

    1. Debuff that makes corrupted players easier to kill. The more they do this the more stacks of this debuff happens till a level 1 player could pawn them

    2. When you willing PvP and you die, you do drop something called glint and a % of your gathering goods. When a corrupted player gets killed, they also drop gear and a greater % of glint and harvested mats. 

    3. The above being said, when you are corrupted. You show up as a little red dot on the map that everyone can see. Everyone will be coming for your stuff.

    4. When corrupted you can just log off to wait out the corruption. You need to earn exp or die at the hands of a players to remove corruption.
     
    5. Corrupted players can not enter safe areas. They must stay in the wilds. 

    6. There is skill lines you can progress that make it easier to find, kill and hunt corrupted players. Every player in the game can do this. 

    7. There is a bounty system in the game that will reward you for taking out corrupted players. 

    8. Corrupted players have all skills related to CC greyed out. They cant CC, snare, root or stun players once they are corrupted. 
    These systems always seem to stumble when confronted with groups and who is in a group, who is out of a group etc...

    For instance.. if I am in a group with Bob, and PimpMasta attacks Bob... can I fight back too?

    Or.. I am in a group with Pimpmasta and he attacks Bob, do I get corruption too?

    Or I am out of group but stand and heal Pimpmasta as he attacks Bob.  What happens to me?

    Or... can PimpMasta and I go gank Bob.  Then take turns logging in our "blue" characters to kill each other and remove corruption and farm our own bounties?


    We will see how it plays out in Alpha

    Good questions. My guess is during A2 people will be doing things just like this but.. the point remains. IS is taking steps to make sure this is not a game about FFA ganking. Trying to pull this off will still be a risk. Players will see you on the map and come for you. Corrupted players will be free loot. Will people really take that risk? My guess it will be just like Linage II. Very few people ganked with this flagging system and IS has added even more depth to that system that I have listed above. 

    Biggest thing, unlike most modern games that rely entirely on data to catch people playing outside intended game play. Every server in Ashes will have live GMs. You find a way to work outside intended game play. Action will be taken by the GMs. 

    Of the concerns I have about Ashes, this one is minor, even if you have no desire to be ganked. This is something I have complete confidence in IS to handle. Now I could make a much bigger list of the things I am concerned about.
    My guess is that it encourages the "exploits" I mentioned above, or it just means that gank groups form and roam.  Protection in numbers and all that.

    Will be interesting to see in a few months

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,406
    My guess is that it encourages the "exploits" I mentioned above, or it just means that gank groups form and roam.  Protection in numbers and all that.

    Will be interesting to see in a few months
    There's the rub.

    PvE player will leave if 1:1 fight isn't heavily in his favor.
    Developer gimps lawless players.
    PvP player responds by making it a 3:1 fight.
    PvE player still complains and leaves.
    Developer adjusts so 4:1 is required to kill good player.
    PvP player leaves.

    Just make the PvE title you'll be six months after launch instead of going through all that pain.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,875
    Nanfoodle said:


    Good questions. My guess is during A2 people will be doing things just like this but.. the point remains. IS is taking steps to make sure this is not a game about FFA ganking. Trying to pull this off will still be a risk. Players will see you on the map and come for you. Corrupted players will be free loot. Will people really take that risk? My guess it will be just like Linage II. Very few people ganked with this flagging system and IS has added even more depth to that system that I have listed above. 

    Biggest thing, unlike most modern games that rely entirely on data to catch people playing outside intended game play. Every server in Ashes will have live GMs. You find a way to work outside intended game play. Action will be taken by the GMs. 

    Of the concerns I have about Ashes, this one is minor, even if you have no desire to be ganked. This is something I have complete confidence in IS to handle. Now I could make a much bigger list of the things I am concerned about.
    My guess is that it encourages the "exploits" I mentioned above, or it just means that gank groups form and roam.  Protection in numbers and all that.

    Will be interesting to see in a few months
    Protection is numbers wont help. Lets say you make a team of 8 to go gank and make people upset. Every person you kill your debuff gets worse making you easier to kill. First person they kill, their location will show up on the map. People getting ganked send messages in guild chat, and their alliance chat. Now you have 3 and 10 times more people coming for the gankers then they have gankers. Most of them have skills made in game to make it easier to kill corrupted players. You think gankers are gona be so organized they will have teams of friends willing to kill them? Never seen anything like that in any PvP game and I have played most. Normally its one guy. Maybe two and in that case, dealing with one or two gankers will take even less action to dispatch.  
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,585
    Nanfoodle said:
    Nanfoodle said:


    Good questions. My guess is during A2 people will be doing things just like this but.. the point remains. IS is taking steps to make sure this is not a game about FFA ganking. Trying to pull this off will still be a risk. Players will see you on the map and come for you. Corrupted players will be free loot. Will people really take that risk? My guess it will be just like Linage II. Very few people ganked with this flagging system and IS has added even more depth to that system that I have listed above. 

    Biggest thing, unlike most modern games that rely entirely on data to catch people playing outside intended game play. Every server in Ashes will have live GMs. You find a way to work outside intended game play. Action will be taken by the GMs. 

    Of the concerns I have about Ashes, this one is minor, even if you have no desire to be ganked. This is something I have complete confidence in IS to handle. Now I could make a much bigger list of the things I am concerned about.
    My guess is that it encourages the "exploits" I mentioned above, or it just means that gank groups form and roam.  Protection in numbers and all that.

    Will be interesting to see in a few months
    Protection is numbers wont help. Lets say you make a team of 8 to go gank and make people upset. Every person you kill your debuff gets worse making you easier to kill. First person they kill, their location will show up on the map. People getting ganked send messages in guild chat, and their alliance chat. Now you have 3 and 10 times more people coming for the gankers then they have gankers. Most of them have skills made in game to make it easier to kill corrupted players. You think gankers are gona be so organized they will have teams of friends willing to kill them? Never seen anything like that in any PvP game and I have played most. Normally its one guy. Maybe two and in that case, dealing with one or two gankers will take even less action to dispatch.  
    Not sure if you've played a lot of FFA PvP games.  But thats not really how it works.  The vast majority of players not out actively looking to PvP are not going to drop what they are doing to go fight some bad guys.  They are likely going to see a red dot and run away.

    And yes, the "gankers" are almost universally more organized than the prey.  Especially since they are the ones picking the time and the place of the attacks.


    We will see in a few months.

    Kyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,406
    Slapshot1188 said:action to dispatch.  
    Not sure if you've played a lot of FFA PvP games.  But thats not really how it works.  The vast majority of players not out actively looking to PvP are not going to drop what they are doing to go fight some bad guys.  They are likely going to see a red dot and run away.

    And yes, the "gankers" are almost universally more organized than the prey.  Especially since they are the ones picking the time and the place of the attacks.


    We will see in a few months.

    I want Nanfoodle to be correct and for this to all work; however, I can count so many titles that had all this exact same verbiage and they all failed.

    That doesn't mean this title will fail, just that we've seen this before and it didn't end well.
    NanfoodleSlapshot1188ScotKyleran
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,875
    Nanfoodle said:
    Nanfoodle said:


    Good questions. My guess is during A2 people will be doing things just like this but.. the point remains. IS is taking steps to make sure this is not a game about FFA ganking. Trying to pull this off will still be a risk. Players will see you on the map and come for you. Corrupted players will be free loot. Will people really take that risk? My guess it will be just like Linage II. Very few people ganked with this flagging system and IS has added even more depth to that system that I have listed above. 

    Biggest thing, unlike most modern games that rely entirely on data to catch people playing outside intended game play. Every server in Ashes will have live GMs. You find a way to work outside intended game play. Action will be taken by the GMs. 

    Of the concerns I have about Ashes, this one is minor, even if you have no desire to be ganked. This is something I have complete confidence in IS to handle. Now I could make a much bigger list of the things I am concerned about.
    My guess is that it encourages the "exploits" I mentioned above, or it just means that gank groups form and roam.  Protection in numbers and all that.

    Will be interesting to see in a few months
    Protection is numbers wont help. Lets say you make a team of 8 to go gank and make people upset. Every person you kill your debuff gets worse making you easier to kill. First person they kill, their location will show up on the map. People getting ganked send messages in guild chat, and their alliance chat. Now you have 3 and 10 times more people coming for the gankers then they have gankers. Most of them have skills made in game to make it easier to kill corrupted players. You think gankers are gona be so organized they will have teams of friends willing to kill them? Never seen anything like that in any PvP game and I have played most. Normally its one guy. Maybe two and in that case, dealing with one or two gankers will take even less action to dispatch.  
    Not sure if you've played a lot of FFA PvP games.  But thats not really how it works.  The vast majority of players not out actively looking to PvP are not going to drop what they are doing to go fight some bad guys.  They are likely going to see a red dot and run away.

    And yes, the "gankers" are almost universally more organized than the prey.  Especially since they are the ones picking the time and the place of the attacks.


    We will see in a few months.

    I have played FFA PvP but I have also played this flagging system for years in Liniage 2.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,875
    Wargfoot said:
    Slapshot1188 said:action to dispatch.  
    Not sure if you've played a lot of FFA PvP games.  But thats not really how it works.  The vast majority of players not out actively looking to PvP are not going to drop what they are doing to go fight some bad guys.  They are likely going to see a red dot and run away.

    And yes, the "gankers" are almost universally more organized than the prey.  Especially since they are the ones picking the time and the place of the attacks.


    We will see in a few months.

    I want Nanfoodle to be correct and for this to all work; however, I can count so many titles that had all this exact same verbiage and they all failed.

    That doesn't mean this title will fail, just that we've seen this before and it didn't end well.
    I hope I don't expect. For me Ashes and Pantheon were like my first MMO loves. Class interdependence, unblanced classes, no cash shop for game improvements, also that tank, DPS, Heals, support dynamic. I followed pantheon till I knew it would fail. I will do the same with Ashes. I have some real concerns about Ashes. Things I hope gets worked out with A2. If not this game could fail as well. I just think that's less likely with Ashes. 
  • PonziniPonzini Member UncommonPosts: 534
    Where did you hear they had investors? I hadn't heard or seen anything about that.

    I don't see alpha 2 ending in only 1 year. 2 years at the minimum imo. At least it will be streamed and out of NDA so we can see the game and progress in that time. I think when alpha 2 ends it will move towards release quite quickly though. Probably another year after that. That's my guess.
    Nanfoodle
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,875
    Investers has been mentioned in many chat channels. I have been interested to get official word. They said the 3 phases are a year plan. A2 will run till launch and turn into the test server. But this current plan is to Oct 2025. Was said in one of the streams. My guess is things will keep getting pushed back as they can't keep up for what's to be done in each phase, including the plan to goto UE5.4 during A2. Or to keep the one year date, they could push some content to post launch, like the navel plans. My guess will be cutting and scope creep. Steven can't help himself. 
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