So, a 10/10 means nothing will ever be better than this.
No, a 10/10 means this is at the moment best.
Eventually there will be a better one, at which point the scoring system adjust so that future games are compared to that one.
I go with the gymnastics interpretation of 10/10, meaning it exemplifies flawless execution, so near perfection judges from all sides agree it is without peer.
My belief is no game has or perhaps even can reach such a standard so there really can never be a perfect 10, but perhaps this is the first one.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So, a 10/10 means nothing will ever be better than this.
No, a 10/10 means this is at the moment best.
Eventually there will be a better one, at which point the scoring system adjust so that future games are compared to that one.
I go with the gymnastics interpretation of 10/10, meaning it exemplifies flawless execution, so near perfection judges from all sides agree it is without peer.
My belief is no game has or perhaps even can reach such a standard so there really can never be a perfect 10, but perhaps this is the first one.
I think the notion that a 10/10 is a "perfect" game is something a lot of us need to try to shake. I was adamant for the first five or six years I was a games critic that no game ever truly deserved a 10 because it was a "perfect" score and since no game is ever perfect, how can any game be deserving of that.
However, as I reviewed more games and worked for more sites, particularly doing IGN's MMO and MMO-adjacent reviews for a few years, my mentality started to shift on exactly what a 10/10 truly meant.
To me, and it's reflected now in our review policy, a 10/10 doesn't mean a perfect game. But it does mean it's a masterpiece, a game that the industry will remember, and in many ways study to help influence games in the future. It's in "rarified air" to quote myself from our reviews policy page.
Notably, we tend to think of our game review scores in the way we would describe a game to a friend overall if we were just sitting on a couch talking about them. So if I would describe a game as "good" overall, it's at least a 7; if it's just "okay," it's at least a 6. With Metaphor (and notably, Baldur's Gate 3 last year, which was the last 10 the site has given until now), I kept coming back to this being a masterclass in JRPG design, the culmination of Atlus' 35 years of game development on full display - the company at the height of its powers.
It's not perfect, and I think the review bears that out clearly. But it's a game that sets a tone for JRPGs moving forward, and especially ATLUS' future games. Hell, I'm still playing it after spending a month on the game, which is rare for game reviews. Typically I want to stay as far away from a game, no matter how good it is, after the crunch usually associated with trying to hit a review deadline. Yet the first thing I did after filing this review was boot it up and play it for a few more hours, and that extended over the weekend. It truly is a masterpiece, in my opinion.
BUT that's another huge caveat: this is my opinion. Reviews are inherently subjective - there is no such thing as an objective review, and anyone who tells you otherwise isn't doing a review of a game, but simply listing features on the back of a box. Read as many different reviews as you can before coming to your own conclusion whether or not you think this game (or any game we review) is for you. I know one commenter on this chain was skeptical because I openly admitted that Persona 5 is my favorite game, and therefore the feeling was that it would be clouding my judgment here. And that's fully valid.
I'd argue the opposite, though. Persona 5 was as close to a perfect JRPG as I think existed out there, and so for Metaphor to not only live up to that, but surpass it in many ways, in my opinion, makes it all the more impressive. It had HUGE shoes to fill, especially for those of us wondering how ATLUS would top P5, or P5R.
At the end of the day, I will continue to harp on the fact that I think the review score is the least important part of the review (counterintuitive, I know). It's incredibly hard to distill an almost 3000-word article into a round number to convey your myriad thoughts, and in many ways scores do a disservice to the actual content of a review. Our data shows that most people just scroll to the bottom, read the score, and click away, which is a shame because the content of the review: the justifications, the pros and cons, the nuance of the reasoning as to why a game has a particular score is just lost as a result. We keep scores around because it's part of the brand of the site, and Metacritic and Google like scores. But I implore people who are just reading that section and skipping the actual review to spend a little time reading why we think a game is "X/10." I feel like the vast majority of the people in this thread took the time to read the review before commenting, which as someone who agonizes over every word each and every time I write one of these (seriously, I get the most oppressive imposter syndrome and writers block with reviews), it is greatly, greatly appreciated.
So, a 10/10 means nothing will ever be better than this.
No, a 10/10 means this is at the moment best.
Eventually there will be a better one, at which point the scoring system adjust so that future games are compared to that one.
The 2nd one doesn't even have to replace the 1st one really. Case in point, Chrono Trigger was the first 10/10 JRPG and it is still inspires more new games than possibly any other entry in the genre. That doesn't take away from how incredible other landmark titles have been since then, and how much they have shaped gaming since.
Interestingly enough until today's article I've never heard of any of the titles being discussed here despite being a fan of computer RPGs for about 40 years now.
Apparently they didn't exist in the parallel universe I originally hail from.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So, a 10/10 means nothing will ever be better than this.
No, a 10/10 means this is at the moment best.
Eventually there will be a better one, at which point the scoring system adjust so that future games are compared to that one.
The 2nd one doesn't even have to replace the 1st one really. Case in point, Chrono Trigger was the first 10/10 JRPG and it is still inspires more new games than possibly any other entry in the genre. That doesn't take away from how incredible other landmark titles have been since then, and how much they have shaped gaming since.
True. But if you were to make a 10/10 JRPG now, it would need to beat the bar as set by Metaphor Refantazio, not the bar as set by Chrono Trigger.
I really loved Chrono Trigger, but every time the games improve the reviewers also need to set a bar for what is a good game a bit higher.
So, a 10/10 means nothing will ever be better than this.
No, a 10/10 means this is at the moment best.
Eventually there will be a better one, at which point the scoring system adjust so that future games are compared to that one.
The 2nd one doesn't even have to replace the 1st one really. Case in point, Chrono Trigger was the first 10/10 JRPG and it is still inspires more new games than possibly any other entry in the genre. That doesn't take away from how incredible other landmark titles have been since then, and how much they have shaped gaming since.
True. But if you were to make a 10/10 JRPG now, it would need to beat the bar as set by Metaphor Refantazio, not the bar as set by Chrono Trigger.
I really loved Chrono Trigger, but every time the games improve the reviewers also need to set a bar for what is a good game a bit higher.
I don't really agree. If you were to make a JRPG/social sim, then Metaphor is the bar.
Chrono Trigger is the bar for shorter JRPGs, and it's still considered to have impeccable pacing. No fat on that meat.
Interestingly enough until today's article I've never heard of any of the titles being discussed here despite being a fan of computer RPGs for about 40 years now.
Apparently they didn't exist in the parallel universe I originally hail from.
Well you did say *Computer* RPG's which is probably why you don't recognize the name.
If i recall Chrono Trigger started as a fully Nintendo Console (NES / SNES) title as did many of the JRPG's back in the day. The Breath of Fire's, Lufia's, and other titles you probably never heard of .
Interestingly enough until today's article I've never heard of any of the titles being discussed here despite being a fan of computer RPGs for about 40 years now.
Apparently they didn't exist in the parallel universe I originally hail from.
Well you did say *Computer* RPG's which is probably why you don't recognize the name.
If i recall Chrono Trigger started as a fully Nintendo Console (NES / SNES) title as did many of the JRPG's back in the day. The Breath of Fire's, Lufia's, and other titles you probably never heard of .
That's it, soon as the "c" word is mentioned my mind moves on ...
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Interestingly enough until today's article I've never heard of any of the titles being discussed here despite being a fan of computer RPGs for about 40 years now.
Apparently they didn't exist in the parallel universe I originally hail from.
Well you did say *Computer* RPG's which is probably why you don't recognize the name.
If i recall Chrono Trigger started as a fully Nintendo Console (NES / SNES) title as did many of the JRPG's back in the day. The Breath of Fire's, Lufia's, and other titles you probably never heard of .
That's it, soon as the "c" word is mentioned my mind moves on ...
What were we talking about again?
Ky you have never played Japanese RPGs on a console? You missed out playing Suikoden OMG!!!!
They will be remastering it I am soooo looking forward to that.
Interestingly enough until today's article I've never heard of any of the titles being discussed here despite being a fan of computer RPGs for about 40 years now.
Apparently they didn't exist in the parallel universe I originally hail from.
Well you did say *Computer* RPG's which is probably why you don't recognize the name.
If i recall Chrono Trigger started as a fully Nintendo Console (NES / SNES) title as did many of the JRPG's back in the day. The Breath of Fire's, Lufia's, and other titles you probably never heard of .
That's it, soon as the "c" word is mentioned my mind moves on ...
What were we talking about again?
Ky you have never played Japanese RPGs on a console? You missed out playing Suikoden OMG!!!!
They will be remastering it I am soooo looking forward to that.
After several delays they finally have the release date for Suikoden 1 & 2 Remaster, March 6th 2025 and it is available to pre-purchase on Steam so really not that long to go
This is just another Persona game in essence, and while a certain group of players enjoy it, I don't think that translates outside the niche.
Put into comparison with top games of other types, I don't see this holding up to the likes of Elden Ring, The Witcher 3, Halo 2, Portal 2, Skyrim, Bioshock, or the myriad other all-time greats. So while it's likely the best of its type, does that really make it one of the best OVERALL?
Hate to break it to you, but Persona 5 is the very definition of a 10. It singlehandedly brought its genre back from a near decade long lull state. It was one of the best games its genre has ever seen. Games are still inspired by Persona 5. In fact, it has more copycats than the Witcher 3, Portal, or Bioshock. And it is not, in fact, niche, being the biggest JRPG franchise not made by Square or Nintendo (honestly, it's probably bigger than Square's franchises now, judging by how the last couple Final Fantasy games performed).
This is just another Persona game in essence, and while a certain group of players enjoy it, I don't think that translates outside the niche.
Put into comparison with top games of other types, I don't see this holding up to the likes of Elden Ring, The Witcher 3, Halo 2, Portal 2, Skyrim, Bioshock, or the myriad other all-time greats. So while it's likely the best of its type, does that really make it one of the best OVERALL?
Hate to break it to you, but Persona 5 is the very definition of a 10. It singlehandedly brought its genre back from a near decade long lull state. It was one of the best games its genre has ever seen. Games are still inspired by Persona 5. In fact, it has more copycats than the Witcher 3, Portal, or Bioshock. And it is not, in fact, niche, being the biggest JRPG franchise not made by Square or Nintendo (honestly, it's probably bigger than Square's franchises now, judging by how the last couple Final Fantasy games performed).
Weeb alert.
Proudly, but not exclusively.
My top 10 is currently an even split between western and eastern RPGs.
Comments
Eventually there will be a better one, at which point the scoring system adjust so that future games are compared to that one.
My belief is no game has or perhaps even can reach such a standard so there really can never be a perfect 10, but perhaps this is the first one.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
However, as I reviewed more games and worked for more sites, particularly doing IGN's MMO and MMO-adjacent reviews for a few years, my mentality started to shift on exactly what a 10/10 truly meant.
To me, and it's reflected now in our review policy, a 10/10 doesn't mean a perfect game. But it does mean it's a masterpiece, a game that the industry will remember, and in many ways study to help influence games in the future. It's in "rarified air" to quote myself from our reviews policy page.
Notably, we tend to think of our game review scores in the way we would describe a game to a friend overall if we were just sitting on a couch talking about them. So if I would describe a game as "good" overall, it's at least a 7; if it's just "okay," it's at least a 6. With Metaphor (and notably, Baldur's Gate 3 last year, which was the last 10 the site has given until now), I kept coming back to this being a masterclass in JRPG design, the culmination of Atlus' 35 years of game development on full display - the company at the height of its powers.
It's not perfect, and I think the review bears that out clearly. But it's a game that sets a tone for JRPGs moving forward, and especially ATLUS' future games. Hell, I'm still playing it after spending a month on the game, which is rare for game reviews. Typically I want to stay as far away from a game, no matter how good it is, after the crunch usually associated with trying to hit a review deadline. Yet the first thing I did after filing this review was boot it up and play it for a few more hours, and that extended over the weekend. It truly is a masterpiece, in my opinion.
BUT that's another huge caveat: this is my opinion. Reviews are inherently subjective - there is no such thing as an objective review, and anyone who tells you otherwise isn't doing a review of a game, but simply listing features on the back of a box. Read as many different reviews as you can before coming to your own conclusion whether or not you think this game (or any game we review) is for you. I know one commenter on this chain was skeptical because I openly admitted that Persona 5 is my favorite game, and therefore the feeling was that it would be clouding my judgment here. And that's fully valid.
I'd argue the opposite, though. Persona 5 was as close to a perfect JRPG as I think existed out there, and so for Metaphor to not only live up to that, but surpass it in many ways, in my opinion, makes it all the more impressive. It had HUGE shoes to fill, especially for those of us wondering how ATLUS would top P5, or P5R.
At the end of the day, I will continue to harp on the fact that I think the review score is the least important part of the review (counterintuitive, I know). It's incredibly hard to distill an almost 3000-word article into a round number to convey your myriad thoughts, and in many ways scores do a disservice to the actual content of a review. Our data shows that most people just scroll to the bottom, read the score, and click away, which is a shame because the content of the review: the justifications, the pros and cons, the nuance of the reasoning as to why a game has a particular score is just lost as a result. We keep scores around because it's part of the brand of the site, and Metacritic and Google like scores. But I implore people who are just reading that section and skipping the actual review to spend a little time reading why we think a game is "X/10." I feel like the vast majority of the people in this thread took the time to read the review before commenting, which as someone who agonizes over every word each and every time I write one of these (seriously, I get the most oppressive imposter syndrome and writers block with reviews), it is greatly, greatly appreciated.
Apparently they didn't exist in the parallel universe I originally hail from.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I really loved Chrono Trigger, but every time the games improve the reviewers also need to set a bar for what is a good game a bit higher.
Chrono Trigger is the bar for shorter JRPGs, and it's still considered to have impeccable pacing. No fat on that meat.
What were we talking about again?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
They will be remastering it I am soooo looking forward to that.
After several delays they finally have the release date for Suikoden 1 & 2 Remaster, March 6th 2025 and it is available to pre-purchase on Steam so really not that long to go
Weeb alert.
My top 10 is currently an even split between western and eastern RPGs.