Despite D&D Surge With Baldur's Gate 3, Ex-Skyrim Designer Believes Elder Scrolls Will Stick to Stre

System · October 19

Despite D&D Surge With Baldur's Gate 3, Ex-Skyrim Designer Believes Elder Scrolls Will Stick to Streamlined Stats Approach | MMORPG.com

A former Bethesda design director explains that stats are streamlined because 'Bethesda has wanted to have the game get out of its own way.'

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Sovrath · October 19

I'm fine with that. While there is a certain fun to be had to creating a character, I think too many bits and bobs tends to weigh down the experience. Less HUD is always welcome.

What I'd want them to do is get their inventory system better. What they had in Skyrim was unacceptable.

waveslayer · October 20

when I buy an RPG to play I want it to have 5 or 6 attributes to add points to when leveling and skill trees to further make my character what i want...the less customization the less a game holds my interest

Scot · October 20

Video game RPG's take away nearly all of the complexity of a RPG system, you don't have to think about combat in the same way or rolling skills.

What video games retain is character statistics, feat like picks and strategy. There is a lot more strategy in turn based, free form combat has far less. So RPG video games have a very diluted reference to table top ones, but is that an issue?

It would be if the video game was a TTRPG simulation, allowing a DM to run combat online with players, but that's not what most video RPG titles are. The beauty of a video RPG is it runs under the hood and does not bother you. So yes in TTRPG we talk endlessly about how complex a system should be, in video games I just think how much strategy is important and how interestingly the character evolves.

Is a character more meaningful if you can tweak their stats at character creation, maybe but I think there are better ways to give players a feeling of involvement with their character. Give a player some background story choices which set him up for play. Make classes, skill and power trees let you develop into different "professions" of adventurer. We have seen this gameplay in past titles, so we know it works really well.

Sovrath · October 20

Scot said:

Video game RPG's take away nearly all of the complexity of a RPG system, you don't have to think about combat in the same way or rolling skills.

I personally never liked "the complexity of a RGP system." I always stripped down my D&D sessions in order to concentrate on story telling and the player experience. Sitting their, stopping the action for too long because a myriad of rolls had to be made was sure death to the story and what was happening in the moment.

I remember Drakensang having a lot of stuff to tinker with and I essentially lost interest. I wasn't really convinced that I needed to play a game where I had to put points in digging.

The Elder Scrolls games were always fine as far as dealing with points and skills and I never really found them overbearing. So as you say, video games are more stripped down and straight forward.

I do wish they would pay attention to their skill trees. I found some of their skill progressions a bit iffy. There is a progression where you essentially put a point into unarmed attacks in the heavy armor skill tree. For me that's a waste of a point but if one wants to continue you have to do it.

I believe the same goes with speech. I have to put points in two other things before I can put a point into intimidate.

kitarad · October 20

God Drakensang was a nightmare. I gave up too. I would have liked to play a slightly simpler version. I enjoy the complexity of JRPGs that make you really think about the way you train your group and what skills they use. Their turn based games are really good.

Sovrath · October 20

kitarad said:

God Drakensang was a nightmare. I gave up too. I would have liked to play a slightly simpler version. I enjoy the complexity of JRPGs that make you really think about the way you train your group and what skills they use. Their turn based games are really good.

For me, I want to be able to grow and level my character, see changes from my decisions, but not have to deal with minutia or get to a point where I can't develop my character into a corner.

And I'd like to develop the character toward my own thoughts about what I want to do. So, in the example I gave above, I don't care about fighting in my bare hands in heavy armor. I'd like to choose Intimidation, or bribery or persuasion as I see fit, not have to move along a "track," one then then then the other and then another.

Especially because leveling speech is slow.

I have, at times, made a mod plugin to change the skill trees so I could ignore various things. or at least be able to choose then over something that I think is equal.

Scot · October 20

Drakensang was really good, but I am not saying I want all RPG's made that way, far from it. But would I play another, most certainly. You talked about the complexity, was it more complex than the survival games we see now which have RPG settings? While I am turned off by having to plan crafting a multistage item, to make another multistage item, to make another multistage item, doing the same for my guys skills etc. is fine. Go figure.

When it comes to TTRPG I have done everything from scale down the rules of Rolemaster to make it more like MERP to fleshing out systems like Sorcerer. A lot of indie TTRPG seem to think skills are too much for them to bother with.

cameltosis · October 20

For me, stats in RPGs should lead to choices.

Choosing how to build my character is an important part of the roleplaying to me. Roleplaying is all about making choices and then seeing how those choices play out in the world. Stats feed directly into my combat role and can play a big part in how my character plays.

So, do the stats in your RPG have a meaningful effect on how my character's combat role works? If yes, then great, the stats are doing well. If no, then the stats are pointless and may as well be removed / streamlined.

Gorwe · October 21

cameltosis said:

For me, stats in RPGs should lead to choices.

Choosing how to build my character is an important part of the roleplaying to me. Roleplaying is all about making choices and then seeing how those choices play out in the world. Stats feed directly into my combat role and can play a big part in how my character plays.

So, do the stats in your RPG have a meaningful effect on how my character's combat role works? If yes, then great, the stats are doing well. If no, then the stats are pointless and may as well be removed / streamlined.

Yeah, this instantly reminded me of Shadowrun games. They were very nicely adapted into video game format by HareBrained. Imo.

Scot · October 21

cameltosis said:

For me, stats in RPGs should lead to choices.

Choosing how to build my character is an important part of the roleplaying to me. Roleplaying is all about making choices and then seeing how those choices play out in the world. Stats feed directly into my combat role and can play a big part in how my character plays.

So, do the stats in your RPG have a meaningful effect on how my character's combat role works? If yes, then great, the stats are doing well. If no, then the stats are pointless and may as well be removed / streamlined.

Stats can be used in the way you describe, I do think there are better ways though. Another example, thinking back to the Ultima games, where you entered a gypsy's caravan and had your future told by answering questions which determined your virtue scores.

Sovrath · October 21

Scot said:

Drakensang was really good, but I am not saying I want all RPG's made that way, far from it. But would I play another, most certainly. You talked about the complexity, was it more complex than the survival games we see now which have RPG settings? While I am turned off by having to plan crafting a multistage item, to make another multistage item, to make another multistage item, doing the same for my guys skills etc. is fine. Go figure.

When it comes to TTRPG I have done everything from scale down the rules of Rolemaster to make it more like MERP to fleshing out systems like Sorcerer. A lot of indie TTRPG seem to think skills are too much for them to bother with.

I absolutely agree about your example regarding crafting.

Lineage2 had that and I immediately knew what I wasn’t going to be doing in my evenings.

That, to me is just tedium.

I’m not really sure that would be complexity, at least as far as game play.

think real complexity would be having different materials yield different results. Having pros and cons with mixing different materials.

Perhaps even having the manufacturing process also yield different results.

suppose having batches of materials that then is part Of greater batches is a complex set of ingredients but that’s where that ends.

Aeander · October 21

Well, duh. Bethesda hasn't improved their craft one bit in over a decade and they're not about to start now.

Gorwe · October 22

Honestly? What's good about Bethesda titles? I only like TES IP. It is very interesting. But the gameplay ... idk, I am not an Open World, Sandbox fan so ... yeah.

Sovrath · October 22

Gorwe said:

Honestly? What's good about Bethesda titles? I only like TES IP. It is very interesting. But the gameplay ... idk, I am not an Open World, Sandbox fan so ... yeah.

First time I played Morrowind I realized that open world exploration games were what was missing for me

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Despite D&D Surge With Baldur's Gate 3, Ex-Skyrim Designer Believes Elder Scrolls Will Stick to Stre

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