Ashes of Creation Pushes Back Alpha Two's Start By Hours, Today's Dev Update Stream Has a Live Q&A |

System · October 25

Ashes of Creation Pushes Back Alpha Two's Start By Hours, Today's Dev Update Stream Has a Live Q&A | MMORPG.com

Ashes of Creation's Alpha Two is set to begin today-just a little later than originally announced. Intrepid Studios will also be holding its next livestream today, featuring all things alpha and a live Q&A.

Read the full story here

Slapshot1188 · October 25

Totally unacceptable!!!

Proof game will fail!

OK, obviously not really a big deal... but looking forward to some eyewitness posts on here about the actual state of the game and your opinions on how things are shaping up. Remember, the NDA is down for writing.

Abimor · October 25

Slapshot1188 said:

Totally unacceptable!!!

Proof game will fail!

OK, obviously not really a big deal... but looking forward to some eyewitness posts on here about the actual state of the game and your opinions on how things are shaping up. Remember, the NDA is down for writing.

I mean it happens its a test thats what this stuff is for right. @slapshot1188 not saying you but people need to chillax.

emperorhades1 · October 25

Forced pvp will not fly.

angerbeaver · October 27

It looked pretty generic. Watched from EsfandTV stream and wasn't impressed enough to stick around long. Still Alpha but nothing looked like enough for me to jump into an MMORPG. I did like the archers I saw in the background, reminded me of my Hunter days on LOTRO back in 2007. Those were the days!

Zandog · October 27

emperorhades1 said:

Forced pvp will not fly.

Very correct. As a PvE player, it's worth looking into the corruption / karma system the game uses to deter any unwanted PvP. You can read it for yourself but put simply, it's not worth attacking others in non-open PvP designated areas. Which right now for the Alpha is 90% of the play space.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Corruption

Sure they can kill you but if you are a non-combatant ( dont fight back ), your body can't even be looted for more than just Glint, a bound currency dropped from mobs and not even out of your own wallet. You retain all of your gear and your inventory's possessions. Sure, you'll have to respawn but the punishment they receive for the PK far outweighs the worth. Anyone who says they had their stuff taken, participated in the PK. Non-combatants who heal, buff, or otherwise interact with combatants or corrupted players will be flagged as combatants.

I've been tagged by many PvPer's trying to get me to fight back or even react. It never works on me. Go ahead. Kill me and then read that wiki page to see how long the list is of BS you go through as a PKer and how rough it is for you.

Slapshot1188 · October 27

Zandog said:

emperorhades1 said:

Forced pvp will not fly.

Very correct. As a PvE player, it's worth looking into the corruption / karma system the game uses to deter any unwanted PvP. You can read it for yourself but put simply, it's not worth attacking others in non-open PvP designated areas. Which right now for the Alpha is 90% of the play space.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Corruption

Sure they can kill you but if you are a non-combatant ( dont fight back ), your body can't even be looted for more than just Glint, a bound currency dropped from mobs and not even out of your own wallet. You retain all of your gear and your inventory's possessions. Sure, you'll have to respawn but the punishment they receive for the PK far outweighs the worth. Anyone who says they had their stuff taken, participated in the PK. Non-combatants who heal, buff, or otherwise interact with combatants or corrupted players will be flagged as combatants.

I've been tagged by many PvPer's trying to get me to fight back or even react. It never works on me. Go ahead. Kill me and then read that wiki page to see how long the list is of BS you go through as a PKer and how rough it is for you.

I watched a group (unflagged) go to another group (unflagged) and then in the middle of a pull they turned on their PvP flag and ganked the other group.

That has to change. You might laugh it off and come back, but the majority of PvE players will not accept that. They have a revulsion to being "other player's content", and the false sense of security of the flag system is going to make it worse.

Zandog · October 27

Slapshot1188 said:

I watched a group (unflagged) go to another group (unflagged) and then in the middle of a pull they turned on their PvP flag and ganked the other group. That has to change. You might laugh it off and come back, but the majority of PvE players will not accept that. They have a revulsion to being "other player's content", and the false sense of security of the flag system is going to make it worse.

Two parts to this. The first being, this is a player economy driven PvX game first. If players aren't willing to tolerate the inconveniences of player agency mechanics, there are plenty of other MMORPG's that cater to that. Guildwars 2, WoW, ESO, FF14 to name the big ones, all provide 100% security in they're open world environments. Ashes of Creation from Kickstarter day 1 has billed itself as a sandbox MMORPG, built to react to the actions of players and the PvE content is there to facilitate the growth of player ran environments, not provide the player with an immune, guided theme park experience. AoC has to make sure the message about who this game is for, comes across loud and clear and right now to anyone researching, it does.

As for providing security and assurance to PvE players, what I mentioned in my last post, is still work in progress and while many of the features work, it's an alpha right? Like still 3-4 years away from being a completely reliable system. That's what the testing phase is for. Ashes of Creation is not for people who want to be left alone with no agency or player dictated outcomes. It's a game made to bring players together for cooperation in determining how the world around them evolves. While PvE is a big part of the game, PvP is a part of the evolution as well whether it's invited or not.

cheyane · October 27

Exactly there are plenty of other games and there's the rub.

cheyane · October 27

Slapshot1188 said:

Zandog said:

emperorhades1 said:

Forced pvp will not fly.

Very correct. As a PvE player, it's worth looking into the corruption / karma system the game uses to deter any unwanted PvP. You can read it for yourself but put simply, it's not worth attacking others in non-open PvP designated areas. Which right now for the Alpha is 90% of the play space.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Corruption

Sure they can kill you but if you are a non-combatant ( dont fight back ), your body can't even be looted for more than just Glint, a bound currency dropped from mobs and not even out of your own wallet. You retain all of your gear and your inventory's possessions. Sure, you'll have to respawn but the punishment they receive for the PK far outweighs the worth. Anyone who says they had their stuff taken, participated in the PK. Non-combatants who heal, buff, or otherwise interact with combatants or corrupted players will be flagged as combatants.

I've been tagged by many PvPer's trying to get me to fight back or even react. It never works on me. Go ahead. Kill me and then read that wiki page to see how long the list is of BS you go through as a PKer and how rough it is for you.

I watched a group (unflagged) go to another group (unflagged) and then in the middle of a pull they turned on their PvP flag and ganked the other group.

That has to change. You might laugh it off and come back, but the majority of PvE players will not accept that. They have a revulsion to being "other player's content", and the false sense of security of the flag system is going to make it worse.

Sharif has already quite succinctly said that the game is not meant for people like me. So glad I took his words to heart.

mitech616 · October 27

Full loot open PvP = fail. Why don't games get this? Even their repercussions are underwhelming. It can (and WILL) still be used for griefing. Sure, they might not get a bunch of loot in lower-level areas, but that isn't what those people care about. They do it just to make the other player's experience unpleasant.

PvP needs to have tight controls and purpose. Otherwise, the game just gets full of obnoxious d-bags whose only interest is harassing people. It's sad, it's pathetic, and it happens in EVERY ONE of these types of games.

Darkfall, Shadowbane, etc. all buckle. You can't build longevity with a foundation of trolls.

Slapshot1188 · October 27

Shadowbane and Darkfall suffered from conquered enemy syndrome. Once a group is beaten they tend to quit. This leads to one group taking over the world.

Crowfall was attempting to address this by having limited duration worlds which would always provide fresh starts. Unfortunately they listened to the ivory tower and launched a broken piece of shit zerg fest.

Those games can succeed in a niche. I think the company behind Ashes of Creation has grown too large to be supported by a niche. They need mainstream players.

cheyane · October 27

Mainstream players ? Do you mean players like me who play PvP games but try to avoid it as much as I can and quit if I cannot do that. I like the danger of playing in a world where I might get killed but if it happens a little too much I leave. Is that the type of player you mean?

Plus in this game they also punish players for not flagging for PvP by making onen lose more. Those things never fly with me.

mitech616 · October 27

Seems like they're doing everything they can to poison their community while the game is still in early alpha. I agree that they can't survive as a niche game. That is difficult and requires very specific conditions.

An example:
Like the game or not, Mortal Online 2 seems to have a smaller but stable community who are looking for a very specific PvP experience, and the devs work VERY closely with their community to provide that balance. They don't expect (or need) massive numbers to succeed. But they're not a "typical" MMO.

I think AoC is nothing more than another typical style MMO that will likely drive away every PvE player and crumble when it isn't a success and numbers plummet. Currently I don't see anything unique or defining that sets the game apart from previous fantasy MMOs. Only they're not as polished, unique, or interesting.

Kyleran · October 27

Zandog said:

Slapshot1188 said:
I watched a group (unflagged) go to another group (unflagged) and then in the middle of a pull they turned on their PvP flag and ganked the other group. That has to change. You might laugh it off and come back, but the majority of PvE players will not accept that. They have a revulsion to being "other player's content", and the false sense of security of the flag system is going to make it worse.
Two parts to this. The first being, this is a player economy driven PvX game first. If players aren't willing to tolerate the inconveniences of player agency mechanics, there are plenty of other MMORPG's that cater to that. Guildwars 2, WoW, ESO, FF14 to name the big ones, all provide 100% security in they're open world environments. Ashes of Creation from Kickstarter day 1 has billed itself as a sandbox MMORPG, built to react to the actions of players and the PvE content is there to facilitate the growth of player ran environments, not provide the player with an immune, guided theme park experience. AoC has to make sure the message about who this game is for, comes across loud and clear and right now to anyone researching, it does.

As for providing security and assurance to PvE players, what I mentioned in my last post, is still work in progress and while many of the features work, it's an alpha right? Like still 3-4 years away from being a completely reliable system. That's what the testing phase is for. Ashes of Creation is not for people who want to be left alone with no agency or player dictated outcomes. It's a game made to bring players together for cooperation in determining how the world around them evolves. While PvE is a big part of the game, PvP is a part of the evolution as well whether it's invited or not.

As these conversations often go first defenders try to convince people there are penalties which are too great so ganking won't happen very often.

So when someone points out a ganking example that seemed to be executed to cause the attackers to suffer no loss (using a time tested technique going back 20 years now) then it becomes a case of it will be "fixed" before launch. (Even though it could have be resolved back in the design phase)

Finally there is the wrap up of maybe this game just isn't for some people who aren't willing to be fodder sometimes.

You nailed the formula perfectly.

I predict things will go as they traditionally do, great start, huge fall off post launch, desperate gameplay changes to try and appease the fleeing PVE crowd and eventual shuttering after all else has failed.

FrostiestHowls · October 27

Kyleran said:

Zandog said:

Slapshot1188 said:

I watched a group (unflagged) go to another group (unflagged) and then in the middle of a pull they turned on their PvP flag and ganked the other group.

That has to change. You might laugh it off and come back, but the majority of PvE players will not accept that. They have a revulsion to being "other player's content", and the false sense of security of the flag system is going to make it worse.

Two parts to this. The first being, this is a player economy driven PvX game first. If players aren't willing to tolerate the inconveniences of player agency mechanics, there are plenty of other MMORPG's that cater to that. Guildwars 2, WoW, ESO, FF14 to name the big ones, all provide 100% security in they're open world environments. Ashes of Creation from Kickstarter day 1 has billed itself as a sandbox MMORPG, built to react to the actions of players and the PvE content is there to facilitate the growth of player ran environments, not provide the player with an immune, guided theme park experience. AoC has to make sure the message about who this game is for, comes across loud and clear and right now to anyone researching, it does.

As for providing security and assurance to PvE players, what I mentioned in my last post, is still work in progress and while many of the features work, it's an alpha right? Like still 3-4 years away from being a completely reliable system. That's what the testing phase is for. Ashes of Creation is not for people who want to be left alone with no agency or player dictated outcomes. It's a game made to bring players together for cooperation in determining how the world around them evolves. While PvE is a big part of the game, PvP is a part of the evolution as well whether it's invited or not.

As these conversations often go first defenders try to convince people there are penalties which are too great so ganking won't happen very often.

So when someone points out a ganking example that seemed to be executed to cause the attackers to suffer no loss (using a time tested technique going back 20 years now) then it becomes a case of it will be "fixed" before launch. (Even though it could have be resolved back in the design phase)

Finally there is the wrap up of maybe this game just isn't for some people who aren't willing to be fodder sometimes.

You nailed the formula perfectly.

I predict things will go as they traditionally do, great start, huge fall off post launch, desperate gameplay changes to try and appease the fleeing PVE crowd and eventual shuttering after all else has failed.

Yawn.

Germzypie · October 28

Yeah, because what game really wants casual non-pvp players........

Scot · October 28

Germzypie said:

Yeah, because what game really wants casual non-pvp players........

.........but surely dedicated PvE players would be not be amiss?

Elidien_ga · October 28

Germzypie said:

Yeah, because what game really wants casual non-pvp players........

Does not matter what the game wants. The argument is that the game NEEDS players to be financially stable. The question is how much. I would agree with the assessments in this thread that the game is too big to be supported with a niche crowd. If it can, that's awesome and I am glad there is yet another niche game on the market for the same niche crowd.

Regardless the ground work is already laid for the classic MMO blunder: Launch niche game. Realize too late that niche crowd is not enough to financially support the game. Must decide to close game or launch for the niche crowd. Company sees revenue dry up and sub/player numbers drop. Mainstream players say "I told you so". Adamant fan boys come to forums to tell people the game is perfect and nothing is wrong. Weeks later company releases patch to draw in mainstream players. Hardcore fan boys feel betrayed and stop playing. New players are not drawn in for various reasons. Devs try to reverse changes to draw back in fan boys. Too little too late. Months later game is sunset and development ceases (or at least no new content and put into maintenance mode).

Seen this play out so many times.

Slapshot1188 · October 28

Germzypie said:

Yeah, because what game really wants casual non-pvp players........

It’s not like they would ever spend money in the cash shop on things like sparkly robes or unicorn mount skins. Right?

I do wonder how significant a barrier the sub will be to PvP players in general. I love the sub model but I’m not sure it’s a great match for the target demographic. We shall see.

Nanfoodle · October 28

It was messy. They really need to get the server meshing working or move on to something else. People going back to the main starting area to hand in quests or sell glint, just got stuck in Q and could not log back on. So much rubber banding in starter areas.

The game it self out side of the starting area was fine. I have not had this much fun in a new MMO in a very long time. But Steven was bang on when he said this is a true A2. Of the Alphas I have played, Ashes has done well.

Got some insight from some A1 testers I played with. The move from UE4 to UE5 really put them back. The game was fuller and looked much better. They lost allot of work making the upgrade. Server meshing was even working with UE4 and has not been turned on since.

Nanfoodle · October 28

P.S. they did also do patching many times over the weekend and things got better really fast. I was impressed with that.

Nanfoodle · October 28

Scot said:

Germzypie said:

Yeah, because what game really wants casual non-pvp players........

.........but surely dedicated PvE players would be not be amiss?

There is allot of PvE players playing this game. My guild alone has about 80 of them. Their focus will be all the PvE content and the division of the guild I am in is all about PvP. Some of will be joining them on their PvE adventures. One that are not will be giving support. Going to their PvE events and engaging anyone that tries to get in their way. I know we are not the only guild that has that plan in place. Not all PvE players are carebears. They are ready to deal with PvP players when they mess with them, even though thats not their focus.

Wargfoot · October 28

Nanfoodle said:

P.S. they did also do patching many times over the weekend and things got better really fast. I was impressed with that.

This is nice to hear.

Hartack · October 30

Wargfoot said:

Nanfoodle said:

P.S. they did also do patching many times over the weekend and things got better really fast. I was impressed with that.

This is nice to hear.

Having more developers on staff than some games do entire employee bases will get that done! How long has this been in development?

I digress

and hope you all enjoy!

Wargfoot · October 30

Slapshot1188 said:

Shadowbane and Darkfall suffered from conquered enemy syndrome. Once a group is beaten they tend to quit. This leads to one group taking over the world.

In late Shadowbane I remember a group of centaurs running around and wrecking everything with no real risk to themselves. They were Paladins and could do damage and keep each other healed, so it was an impossible zergball to break.

Their town had a tree and that was it - they'd invested nothing like what we'd put into the game and had nothing to lose.

Until developers realize that the murder hobos won't have nice gear, or a nice town, or anything at all - they'll fail to understand how to discourage the behavior. I can tell you right now full loot as a consequence on a murder hobo means that if you mange to kill one you'll get a broken sword and a dirty hanky.

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Ashes of Creation Pushes Back Alpha Two's Start By Hours, Today's Dev Update Stream Has a Live Q&A |

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Ashes of Creation Pushes Back Alpha Two's Start By Hours, Today's Dev Update Stream Has a Live Q&A |

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