Opinion: Throne & Liberty's Auction House is a Blessing in Disguise | MMORPG.com

System · October 24

Opinion: Throne & Liberty's Auction House is a Blessing in Disguise | MMORPG.com

Throne and Liberty's auction house has been a point of contention for many players since the MMO's launch earlier this month, but Nick argues that it could, in fact, be a blessing in disguise.

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vanderghast · October 24

"Finally, while this system has its flaws, it protects players from even worse monetization systems that other MMOs have implemented."

Because something isn't as bad as it could be does not make it good.

Nick_Shively · October 24

vanderghast said:

"Finally, while this system has its flaws, it protects players from even worse monetization systems that other MMOs have implemented."

Because something isn't as bad as it could be does not make it good.

While technically true, there are few (if any) examples of good monetization systems in f2p MMOs. So even if the system isn't great, and there are many worse examples and no better examples, I think that at least makes it somewhat good.
So if you have to choose between moldy bread, no food, or getting stabbed in the eye, that moldy bread starts looking pretty good.

enesisxlr8 · October 24

lag sucks... cannot do some game mechanics unelss you got great ping... killed it for me

Apridise · October 25

Nick_Shively said:

vanderghast said:

"Finally, while this system has its flaws, it protects players from even worse monetization systems that other MMOs have implemented."

Because something isn't as bad as it could be does not make it good.

While technically true, there are few (if any) examples of good monetization systems in f2p MMOs. So even if the system isn't great, and there are many worse examples and no better examples, I think that at least makes it somewhat good.

So if you have to choose between moldy bread, no food, or getting stabbed in the eye, that moldy bread starts looking pretty good.

Sorry but no, there are far better games then this that don't require you to spend a million years to get a drop or spend real money.

xMatrox · October 25

Its exactly pay to win and even more, pay to advertise article that it isnt. So merithoricaly blatant excuse is that it is not pay to win, because other games are using that system too... jez

DadGamer2000 · October 25

When an F2P mmo implements a monetization scheme that players deem is not P2W is the same time that an mmo creates a monetization scheme that makes no money.

The allure of shelling out real dough for a free game is exactly that you will then get ahead of the pack.

Ok there are two more things you can sell: looks and convenience. Selling only cosmetics is not going to make enough (unless the free version uses a grey box for character model) and selling convenience incentivizes creating a game that is full of deliberately annoying timesinks, and at that point paying for convenience is borderline p2w anyway.

The problem is the f2p model. You can't fix it, it's broken at the core.

cernat15 · October 25

Okay you must do some researches, in WOW you can buy wow tokens, but powerful gear? NO! You want to pvp? gr8 you have to pvp for good pvp gear to buy it with pvp curency! You want to pve? Gr8 you have to do m+ or raids for good gear. But there's no way to buy good gear, mediocre? yes, good? nope.

cheyane · October 25

cernat15 said:

Okay you must do some researches, in WOW you can buy wow tokens, but powerful gear? NO! You want to pvp? gr8 you have to pvp for good pvp gear to buy it with pvp curency! You want to pve? Gr8 you have to do m+ or raids for good gear. But there's no way to buy good gear, mediocre? yes, good? nope.

Can't you buy raid carry. People pay tokens to be carried and they get the loot off the raid boos. Guilds sell that. Their members get paid with gold they can then use to buy tokens. Players buy wow tokens sell them and they give gold to guilds that sell raids.

Surely you know this happens right?

Terazon · October 25

I really enjoy the game

Germzypie · October 25

It does not matter to me. I played for free for a week, and it was fun till i hit the point of realizing how horrible the pvp is.

OrwellRand · October 25

I feel like Throne and Liberty is going to be one of those games that good game developers steal ideas from.

Throne and Liberty feels like a FTP game. I've tried to like it, but it's got no soul. Something is missing from it.

Quizzical · October 25

Your article wouldn't need that big of changes to describe Uncharted Waters Origin. In particular, the auction house uses the game's premium currency (red gems) and a lot of the best items (improved ships and anything from crafting or combine) have a 10% chance to be tradeable. Is that just a coincidence, or is it the standard way that Korean-made MMORPGs do things these days?

I haven't played Throne and Liberty, but in Uncharted Waters Origin, the systems that you describe work pretty well.

Adartaer-Gaming · October 27

Very good article, I agree with it 100%

Ghorgoth · October 27

This system is garbage for a simple reason : because of it no trade is available between players. This is a RPG with loot, where players can't exchange anything, just because they want people to buy Lucent and have a monopoly on transactions (and taking a cut on top of it).

I'm sorry, but a loot based RPG without trade is garbage regardless of its other qualities.

Scot · October 27

Ghorgoth said:

This system is garbage for a simple reason : because of it no trade is available between players. This is a RPG with loot, where players can't exchange anything, just because they want people to buy Lucent and have a monopoly on transactions (and taking a cut on top of it).

I'm sorry, but a loot based RPG without trade is garbage regardless of its other qualities.

Welcome to the forums!

Ghorgoth · October 27

Scot said:

Ghorgoth said:

This system is garbage for a simple reason : because of it no trade is available between players. This is a RPG with loot, where players can't exchange anything, just because they want people to buy Lucent and have a monopoly on transactions (and taking a cut on top of it).

I'm sorry, but a loot based RPG without trade is garbage regardless of its other qualities.

Welcome to the forums!

Thank you. I am playing the game and this really pisses me off. I played lots of MMORPGs since 1999 and there is no excuses for making a system like this. If it this is the only way for F2p to make money it just means F2P is a model that does not work.

If you play DND with friends you're not going to bribe the DM for advantages. If you play a board games you're not going to pay your friends to get advantages over them. I don't get why what would sound awful in other situations is accepted in video games.

cheyane · October 27

It is mainly to thwart gold sellers that they have the no trade system.

Ghorgoth · October 27

cheyane said:

It is mainly to thwart gold sellers that they have the no trade system.

Massively banning gold sellers and gold buyers is the main way to avoid gold sellers. Yet no one seems very interested to actually apply this.

Not sure modifying the game design to actually punish everyone instead is a preferred solution.

Quizzical · October 27

If you sell stuff on the auction house, do you get the lucent immediately? If so, then the game will (and probably already has) run into the same problem that Uncharted Waters Origin did with the same system. Gold spammers will:

1) Use stolen credit cards to buy lucent.
2) Offer to sell lucent for less than if you buy it directly from NCSoft.
3) Have the customer put up some trivial item for a fortune, then buy it as a way to transfer lucent to the player.
4) Keep the money from the player when the credit card chargeback from whoever owns the stolen credit card eventually happens.

UWO eventually squashed this by having a 48 hour delay before you get your money after you sell something on the auction house. That gives the company time to review auction house sales to find suspicious transactions before the buyer gets the premium currency. If Throne and Liberty doesn't already have such a delay, it's probably coming and for the same reasons.

Ghorgoth · October 27

That's why we need to ban the buyers too systematically.

Asm0deus · October 27

Terazon said:

I really enjoy the game

I did too for the first couple hundred hours HOWEVER I never once deluded myself into think the AH system was amazing, good or somehow not p2w.

The low drop rates and convoluted system put in place to even be allowed to sell something on the AH have been designed to keep supply low, and lucent prices higher so they can sell more lucent.

This is by far one of the more ridiculous articles I have read here in awhile.

Quizzical · October 27

Ghorgoth said:

cheyane said:

It is mainly to thwart gold sellers that they have the no trade system.

Massively banning gold sellers and gold buyers is the main way to avoid gold sellers. Yet no one seems very interested to actually apply this.

Not sure modifying the game design to actually punish everyone instead is a preferred solution.

The problem with banning gold sellers is that they'll just keep creating more accounts. This is especially the case for games where you can make accounts for free. It also happens when you have to pay for an account, as they use stolen credit card numbers.

Ghorgoth said:

That's why we need to ban the buyers too systematically.

The problem with this is that the most valuable customers for game developers are the ones who are willing to spend a lot of money on your game. People who buy from gold sellers are by definition willing to spend money on games, and often willing to spend quite a lot. They're often lucrative customers in spite of the damage that they do by encouraging gold sellers. They're often whales who spend a lot of money buying stuff legally, in addition to buying from gold sellers. The goal of game developers is to get such people to spend all of the money that they spend on the game by buying from the developers rather than gold sellers.

Ghorgoth · October 27

Quizzical said:

Ghorgoth said:

cheyane said:

It is mainly to thwart gold sellers that they have the no trade system.

Massively banning gold sellers and gold buyers is the main way to avoid gold sellers. Yet no one seems very interested to actually apply this.

Not sure modifying the game design to actually punish everyone instead is a preferred solution.

The problem with banning gold sellers is that they'll just keep creating more accounts. This is especially the case for games where you can make accounts for free. It also happens when you have to pay for an account, as they use stolen credit card numbers.

Ghorgoth said:

That's why we need to ban the buyers too systematically.

The problem with this is that the most valuable customers for game developers are the ones who are willing to spend a lot of money on your game. People who buy from gold sellers are by definition willing to spend money on games, and often willing to spend quite a lot. They're often lucrative customers in spite of the damage that they do by encouraging gold sellers. They're often whales who spend a lot of money buying stuff legally, in addition to buying from gold sellers. The goal of game developers is to get such people to spend all of the money that they spend on the game by buying from the developers rather than gold sellers.

I agree, this is why I think F2P is a failed system and only a subscription can guarantee a fair game.

Quizzical · October 27

A subscription doesn't thwart gold sellers.

Sovrath · October 28

Ghorgoth said:

cheyane said:

It is mainly to thwart gold sellers that they have the no trade system.

Massively banning gold sellers and gold buyers is the main way to avoid gold sellers. Yet no one seems very interested to actually apply this.

Not sure modifying the game design to actually punish everyone instead is a preferred solution.

I believe if it was easy they would do it. I remember speaking to a developer years ago who told me they spent an inordinate amount of money trying to keep up with gold sellers.

And the kicker is ... it's the players buying from gold sellers. Their own players. And in many cases it's the players who complain about gold sellers.

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