Is AI The Next MMO Revolution? | MMORPG.com

System · November 13

Is AI The Next MMO Revolution? | MMORPG.com

When will we see the next MMO revolution and what will it look like? With AI being such a prominent piece of our future, is this where we can see the next MMO revolution?

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Nick_Shively · November 13

I don't think we're even remotely close to an AI generated world being successful (we've seen a ton of those crash and burn already), but it's definitely possible for AI NPCs to do menial tasks around the world or have dynamic conversations with players. However, the problem with implementing that in an MMO is that developers won't be able to control everything that they say, and that has also been problematic in the past.

cameltosis · November 13

I remain sceptical of the term "artificial intelligence" as from what I've seen, there isn't any real intelligence going on. To me, it seems more like a new way to store and process data. It's clever, sure, and innnovative, but current AI models dont really have any intelligence of their own.

I'm definitely up for having chat models powering NPC interactions. This is, in fact, something I was calling for even before the current iteration of AI chat models. Each NPC would have it's own history, personality, accent and would store its relationships to other NPCs. Then, we as players would interact via freeform typing (rather than the usual multiple option dialogue crap). What I'd really like to see this system encouraging is proper sentence structure, manners and stuff. If I'm rude to an NPC, they wouldn't give me the quest, or maybe wouldn't pay me. If I dont type properly, they tell me to stop being weird and speak properly. Maybe I have to chat to them for long enough to progress our friendship before they trust me with a quest.

Add this type of interaction to a simulated world and you get something much more alive than we currently have. I don't think that simulation should be driven by AI.

As for AI powering NPCs so they can act like players....I don't see this happening. I'd rather devs just continue working on proper scripting for NPCs so they act in expected and predictable ways. So much of computer gaming is about solving problems with the tools available. NPCs acting as companions are, essentially, tools. But it would be really frustrating to have those tools acting in unpredicatable ways.

For things like generative AI for producing artwork, models, world building......from what I've seen, this type of AI is purely derivative. I can see it partially working by training ur AI on your own artists work, but it can never match the creativity of real people. I also fully expect copyright law to clamp down big-time on generative models, which would make using these models much more problematic.

ShinyFlygon · November 13

To be honest, most MMO quests already feel like they are AI-generated. (Obviously, there are exceptions, and I did say "most," so there's no need to quibble.)

There will definitely be an MMO in the near future with AI art and some AI writing, and people will definitely play it if it hits their dopamine button. It may be sad, but it's also obvious that most players do not care about the quality of such things in their games. They just want to feel like they are being rewarded for completing tedious tasks in a flashy environment.

Sovrath · November 13

I can see ai being used as inspiration or starter material but not designing a whole area or story.

using ai to generate dialogue given certain parameters of a character would be great.

Dattelis · November 13

More AI = more layoffs

Angrakhan · November 13

AI is going to have to get several orders of magnitude cheaper before it becomes remotely viable for entertainment purposes. Currently AI is obscenely expensive to run. It's estimated that ChatGPT costs $700,000 per DAY to run just in compute costs. Nevermind someone actually getting paid a salary. The only reason it's even online is huge corporations are willing to lose billions of dollars to develop AI in hopes it will turn into the next big thing. To date that hasn't really materialized but maybe in the future. That's their hope, anyway. Personally I think it's Pandora's box that should be left alone, but we don't need to devolve into that topic here

Anyway having played with ChatGPT and Copilot I can see in the future AI could be useful for building MMOs where choices actually matter because the AI could "learn" about you from how you interact with it either positively or negatively or neutrally and adjust its responses, actions, even quest content based off those interactions. Additionally, NPC interaction could be far more sophisticated than "Here's a quest, do you accept?" The NPC could have a whole list of wants and needs and what it asks of you could depend on what other tasks are being performed by other players for that NPC, how much the NPC trust you, how urgent the need is and other factors that are just beyond what can realistically be done with current technology. Storage and processing of all this data becomes an interesting problem to solve. While storage is cheap my guess is this learning model data isn't small and it's going to need to be stored per player and be able to be retrieve real time. As a guy who has built large scale web apps for 25+ years I just see gigantic dollar signs for the budget to just stand up and run this theoretical game nevermind the cost to develop it.

I predict if AI is going to have a meaningful impact on actual in-game activities it will be a decade or more down the road. Near term I think it will be used as generative AI to create large amounts of content quickly. There's a whole string of ethics questions that go along with doing that as well as quality considerations. Just because it's AI generated doesn't mean it's good. We've all seen enough pictures of "art" that has people with 7 fingers on a hand and such. It's far from perfect and still needs human oversight both to guide it in what to create as well as to audit and correct what is created. Still if used well with lots of iteration and human oversight I can see it being able to build large scale worlds full of content no human team could realistically build in the same amount of time. Budget is another consideration given paragraph one of this reply, but it's a complete unknown to me.

Scot · November 13

Angrakhan said:

...I predict if AI is going to have a meaningful impact on actual in-game activities it will be a decade or more down the road. Near term I think it will be used as generative AI to create large amounts of content quickly. There's a whole string of ethics questions that go along with doing that as well as quality considerations. Just because it's AI generated doesn't mean it's good. We've all seen enough pictures of "art" that has people with 7 fingers on a hand and such. It's far from perfect and still needs human oversight both to guide it in what to create as well as to audit and correct what is created. Still if used well with lots of iteration and human oversight I can see it being able to build large scale worlds full of content no human team could realistically build in the same amount of time. Budget is another consideration given paragraph one of this reply, but it's a complete unknown to me.

I see it as being five years to ten years, no more, but apart from that we agree.

Burgee4150 · November 13

I think AI will greatly enrich our gaming experiences as a supplement, but I don't really see a world where it's creating entire worlds or games without human input. I suppose anything is possible though. I'd love for it to be able to live within the rules of a game world and tailor the experience to the individual player though. So cool to think about.

Phaedruslives · November 13

Sovrath said:

I can see ai being used as inspiration or starter material but not designing a whole area or story.

using ai to generate dialogue given certain parameters of a character would be great.

I kind of imagine a future where Artists are curating teams of AI content generators much in the same way an old farmer drove a team of mules.

Splattr · November 13

Dattelis said:

More AI = more layoffs

In the scope of several of the comments here, I don't see that as a problem. For example, using AI to "control" NPCs doesn't negatively impact jobs. Theoretically, all of the initial programming would still be done by a human. Of course, a company could decide to use AI to generate the original code, but that is a different situation all together. But I (and others) are suggesting AI be used to expand NPC functionality, not replace the hard coded conversation that is currently created by a human with AI generated code.

Right now, a conversation with an NPC goes as follows:

1. Player:
2. NPC: Hi Player, I need 5 boars killed, can you do it?
3. Player: Yes/No/Why?
4. NPC: Good/Come back if you change your mind/They killed my daughter. Will you kill them? Go back to #3.
5. Player: Complete quest, turn in
6. NPC: Thank you! Here is your reward.

With AI, the NPC could have their own personality. That personality would be created by a human, and could actually create more work than just scripting a short conversation. I don't code, so maybe I am wrong about this?

The NPC could also have a database containing known info and previous interactions with said character. Step 2 would be tailored by this database. First interaction would be short and sweet. Future interactions would have more flavor text based on previous encounters with character. This is done now, but limited to 'Hey new guy...' and 'Nice to see you again...' type options.

Furthermore, actual quest parameters could also be changed dynamically based off of player history. If player has refused multiple kill quests, adjust it to a search for item quest - player will still have to kill same number of mobs to get to location of item, while player on kill quest collects item from the last mob killed. Same quest, different flavor based on player preferences. This again doesn't eliminate human work, it just changes the work needing to be done.

So now, using AI an NPC interaction could be more fluid and specific to the player:

NPC: Hey Splattr! It's been what, 3 weeks since I saw you in here at the Frosty Mug Tavern? Have a seat and tell me what you've been up to.
Player: types in answer instead of choosing from dialog menu.
NPC updates database of player interactions.
NPC: That sounds amazing. Is that how you got that new armor?
Player: types in answer instead of choosing from dialog menu.
NPC: Hey, are you still travelling with Bob (another player you had grouped with for previous NPC interaction)? I hope so, because you guys made quick work of that bandit group, and I have another job for ya. You interested?
Player: types in answer instead of choosing from dialog menu.
NPC: I didn't like Bob much anyway. I think you were the one doing all the real work anyway. I'll see you when you finish.

The actual NPC verbiage and mannerisms could be tailored to the players answers. The player uses swear words, the NPC could do the same if it was in line with their personality. Etc, etc. This type of dialog just isn't possible now, but could be using AI. In any event, no human had to lose their job.

Quizzical · November 13

Betteridge's Law of headlines says "no".

Sovrath · November 13

Phaedruslives said:

Sovrath said:

I can see ai being used as inspiration or starter material but not designing a whole area or story.

using ai to generate dialogue given certain parameters of a character would be great.

I kind of imagine a future where Artists are curating teams of AI content generators much in the same way an old farmer drove a team of mules.

At the moment there are “ai artists “ who use ai, prompts, their own images, in order to create new works.

I purchased two from this artist.

https://ingeschuster.shop/pages/ea_autumn-lights?mc_cid=b32b01c339&mc_eid=329dcb2894

Wargfoot · November 13

No.

FrodoFragins · November 13

Well it's not likely going to be graphics. If you were to make a prediction the biggest future steps forward for the genre will either be AR/VR or AI. I suspect AI will be what we get first.

It starts with more humanlike behavior and eventually conversations with NPCs. And eventually it can lead to truly dynamic worlds that don't have to be heavily scripted.

I don't think it's coming any time soon, but it's definitely where the genre can become more immersive and massive.

KnightFalz · November 14

If that AI is in terms of enhancing NPC interaction with the player and the impact that has on the game experience, maybe. If it is just to quickly spit out assets to be used much the way they currently are it won't provide a revolution.

Wargfoot · November 14

There is already more great things available for better games that isn't being used.
They'll use AI to sell lootboxes or something.

Vercin · November 14

If any mmo boss could actually think instead of doing it's rotation there would be almost zero progression.

Neoyoshi · November 14

I've seen what AI is capable of, so no, it's not, it probably never will be and will continue to only be a tool that a human uses to improve something that a human created.

Much of what we've been getting daily doses of is a small mix of both Machine learning and Reactive AI, whether it's those stupid robots or the thousands of predatory AI apps on GooglePlay, so the only thing AI has proven on it's own so far is that it's good at suckering money out of people, whether with ill or good intentions.

goemoe · November 14

I would play such a game, where generative AI tries to mimick behaviour of real players. Just to see, if it is fun or not. We already habe thousends of bots in social media, which most people don't recognize. I believe it is possible in less than 10 years in games, if... well if this is affordable for the devs.

While this might be taking the concept to the extreme, if you couldn't realistically tell the difference between AI players and real players, what would really be the difference? How would it really harm your enjoyment of a game?

How? Well in MMOs you can meet people with real lives which color the day to day experience in the game, because some of their lives gets to sip in the chat or voicechat. It is not a static game world. It is a difference if 3 AI personalities REACT to something you do, or if they actually act and you follow. We have players, which can't do much(a thing) on their own, no matter how easy the game is, they need guidance to everything. Will AI be able to help those people getting fun out of the game? Or will a griefer be happy when he realizes it is a AI he just bullied?

I am very intrigued to find out.

Scot · November 14

Sovrath said:
At the moment there are “ai artists “ who use ai, prompts, their own images, in order to create new works.

I purchased two from this artist.

https://ingeschuster.shop/pages/ea_autumn-lights?mc_cid=b32b01c339&mc_eid=329dcb2894

Philistine reporting in.

You are buying digital images? If you could put it on the wall, including one of those digital wall art screens I could understand?

Sovrath · November 14

Scot said:

Sovrath said:
At the moment there are “ai artists “ who use ai, prompts, their own images, in order to create new works.

I purchased two from this artist.

https://ingeschuster.shop/pages/ea_autumn-lights?mc_cid=b32b01c339&mc_eid=329dcb2894

Philistine reporting in.

You are buying digital images? If you could put it on the wall, including one of those digital wall art screens I could understand?

They are in the process of being framed and will be put on the walls once they are done.

I didn’t purchase png files I purchased very well done prints. The paper is excellent and the colors are perfect.

Angrakhan · November 14

Just to be clear my 10 year timeframe prediction is around the technology becoming affordable enough to be a backend service for a game, not whether or not the technology is capable of doing the job. I think the technology is probably pretty capable right now of playing a very convincing NPC. Right now ChatGPT costs around $700,000 per day to run. No MMO can be profitable at the nor at $70,000 per day. $7,000 is maybe doable for a big game like WoW but still I think investors would be nervous. $700 a day and I think you're there for a AAA big production MMO. At $70 a day it gets in reach of smaller Indy studios.

The price will drop. Always does. I remember when Best Buy had the first 70 inch LCD TV on display with a $14,000 price tag. Now you can find them on sale for $1000 and they have a much better picture and all sorts of baked in smart TV tech that wasn't in that $14k TV.

Scot · November 15

Sovrath said:
They are in the process of being framed and will be put on the walls once they are done.

I didn’t purchase png files I purchased very well done prints. The paper is excellent and the colors are perfect.

I even toyed with getting one of those wall screens myself, it takes online to the real in my eyes. But you can't beat something in a proper frame.

Kyleran · November 15

goemoe said:

I would play such a game, where generative AI tries to mimick behaviour of real players. Just to see, if it is fun or not. We already habe thousends of bots in social media, which most people don't recognize. I believe it is possible in less than 10 years in games, if... well if this is affordable for the devs.

While this might be taking the concept to the extreme, if you couldn't realistically tell the difference between AI players and real players, what would really be the difference? How would it really harm your enjoyment of a game?

How? Well in MMOs you can meet people with real lives which color the day to day experience in the game, because some of their lives gets to sip in the chat or voicechat. It is not a static game world. It is a difference if 3 AI personalities REACT to something you do, or if they actually act and you follow. We have players, which can't do much(a thing) on their own, no matter how easy the game is, they need guidance to everything. Will AI be able to help those people getting fun out of the game? Or will a griefer be happy when he realizes it is a AI he just bullied?

I am very intrigued to find out.

Imagine if AI could track player behaviours and reward them for exhibiting positive actions while also punishing the bad actors?

Help others enough, player gains reputation that precedes him around the game world.

Same goes for undesirable behavior. Behave like a criminal, find a NPC posse chasing your tail and locking you up in the jail.

While there is already some primitive versions of this today, AI could really ramp it up to make the world much more interactive and lively.

olepi · November 15

There's already a game that is totally AI powered and learns from the player and designs the world accordingly. It was done in 1985 in Ender's Game.

What we have today in games is mostly what we called an "expert system". There is a set of data and a set of rules on how to process the data. This works especially well in medical diagnoses. You have symptom A, C, and X so your disease is THIS. In the game you killed the boars so now the NPC rewards you.

AI, or artificial intelligence is supposed to have intelligence: "inter lineas" or reading between the lines. AI can make up its own new rules and collect new kinds of data unlike an expert system. I don't think AI could make a new MMO from scratch, but it could watch players playing various games and form a set of rules that players appear to enjoy. That could be used to make a new game.

In the end though I think it comes down to human project management. Some games today can't release even after over a decade of development. Would AI change that? Or just be another tool that isn't used well.

Could AI replace the managers and project leaders and run an MMO development on its own?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV