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GW vs EVE
Well, whenever 'vs' is implied, EVE's implementation of PvP currently stands supreme on all accounts. But, for those that want to role play, among other things... I still think EVE is better than GuildWars.
While training up HAC skills (specifically Cruiser lvl 5), I decided to purchase GuildWars from PlayNC. Now, economics can be very disappointing at times, usually depending on how it's applied. And, 50 USD for GuildWars, even if it's a one time shot, turned out to be just that, a disappointment. Granted, I've never took much interest in MMORPGs as a whole, EVE changed that for me. And, all of this is from an EVE-ONLINE initial percpective.
Main reasons why I never took an interest in MMORPGs.
1) Graphics sucked, usually to compensate for aging technologies and the fact most people don't have 'geek' hardware at home.
2) Something so sophisticated, conceptually and connotatively with 'MMORPG', most were point click and or "Attack" and "Run Away". Even the economics in most MMORPG is too simple and thus unrealistic than General Math is to Nature (Sorry for the Math reference, but economics is about Math).
3) Those that even strive for simplicity who also congregate also fabricate a very childish atmosphere. I don't want to deal with kids when what we are playing with required such thought and hardwork.
EVE-ONLINE solved all of these problems. Graphics are/were astounding, the economy is advanced enough for a small micro-analysis of any field of economics (consumer trends, advertisement/recruitment, supply and demand, manufacturing, limited resources et al). Most importantly, it's sophisticated in many respects. This, is due to it's 'freedom' for which it allows these dynamic systems to grow and take shape, through human control, interaction and judgement.
GuildWars isn't as "free" as EVE-ONLINE. This presents much of a problem to me... which brings me back to an aforementioned remark regarding it's price. Frankly, I could do with a return.
The graphics in GuildWars Factions (I believe the latest and greatest), is onpar with mid to late 90s FPS games. Perhaps, no better in poly count than Quake II, and textures not even as good as Noone Lives Forever I. DirectX is making good ground, but... It will never replace OpenGL for any serious 3D application, or at least any time within the foreseeable future. DirectX is "easy", thus the reason why game production sweat shops with monkey programmers use it. For any serious gaming (Doom 3), or any real 3D rendering such as FX in movies, OpenGL is used. But, graphics aren't everything that makes up a game, any old-school gamers who remember Pit Fall, PacMan, Burger Time knows this. However, I assert given the current technology and what they are trying to appeal to (which includes visuals), then graphics should require much more attention than the apparent lack in GuildWars. EVE-ONLINE still looks better, with aged technology... and it too uses DirectX.
PvP is practically non-existant in GuildWars Factions, this I remind the reader is coming from an EVE-ONLINE player. Yes, you can go to special arenas, special servers etc... but that's not truelly PvP. Bottom line is philosophy, any time a "hostile" action is taking place among consensual parties... the action can NOT be hostile (mutual agreement is the key here). In EVE-ONLINE, you could shoot and kill noobs as they undock for the first time (however, if you were to do a lot of noobs like this, CCP might send a GM to handle the matter...). Also, "bane" implies loss, another philosophy which GuildWars seems to ignore. I died 112 times so far, and yet, I have not lost anything. I haven't been at risk of losing skillpoints, I haven't lost that neat staff I nicked from a Matid Drone. There's no real consequence for "losing" in GuildWars. So, you can't really lose beucase you suffered no loss. In EVE, you lose a ship, it's gone you have to work to get another one. If you forget to update your clone, you can even lose skill points during an engagement. GuildWars approach on PvP promotes apathy in agreeing to go to these areanas. Some might think that is fun... doing something that doesn't have an effect on anyone or anything, but I don't. GuildWars approach, I think, banks on a suspicion that people enjoy the status of "winning" and that they will accept this label with nothing to show for it.
GuildWars community is somewhat lacking. In everygame, you always have a 13 year old who doesn't know what he is doing or even saying. EVE commands a more mature audience due to it's sophistication, even PvP aspects of EVE require some thought. Seems it's difficult to get help adapting to game play within the GuildWars community, or more specifically, within the noobie towns you first visit when starting a character.
To touch more on the community, it's further crippled by the fact they try to make it a paradise free from hostilities and no true PvP. Towns, Guild Halls etc... areanas is the only place people may casually congregate. We can invite people to venture into the Explorable Areas with us... but, the social form is not forced on you like it is in real life, and in EVE-ONLINE. In EVE, yeah, you can do a mission, but you can be killed by pirates while trying to complete a mission. (Note on missions, GuildWars is VERY lenient on "quests", no time limit to complete any I have done, no requirements to go into potentially PvP hostile areas etc.) GuildWars even allows you the choice of not being social (as does EVE), where the two differ is the promotion of solitude (such as GuildWars permitting you to invite bots to your team to run into Explorable Areas) and promoting consequences for not being social (in EVE, it can be difficult to make due if you aren't within a corporation--or 'guild' for GuildWars).
I was a little disappointed with GuildWars, coming from EVE. Though, I knew it would be a different experience, I wasn't expecting it to be vastly different in all the mechanics. Becuse of the above, to include more reasons, I think EVE-ONLINE is not just better, but much better than GuildWars.
Comments
Good points, and I agree with you.
However theres people on this board that hate EVE for some reason, and call anyone who likes EVE a 'fanboi'
http://www.TheGamersAssociation.com
I actually think eve is the most boring mmo I'v ever played but that doesn't make it a bad game. Eve's the type of game that you either love or hate, there doesn't seem to be alot of in between. I'd recomend to anyone that they try the free trial it is really cool flying a ship for the first time ( if nothing else ) and if the devs ever did another game I'd look really close at it because they've done a fantastic job running EVE.
In CSS you only control one man, that isn't really hard compared to TFT where you have to micro lots of units at the same time. In CSS there's also an easy resource system with only one type of resource you gain by killing and winning compared to TFT where you have food, gold and wood, and need to think about each choice to make.
In CSS you don't really have any unit abilities except jumping and crouching and such. In TFT you have hundreds of unit abilities. In CSS there is only one type of armour. In TFT you have 7. In CSS you have 1 type of attack, shooting, where you have magic, melee and shooting in TFT. In CSS you can make headshots, but that's equal to critical strike in TFT.
And I could go on forever.
If you buy GuildWars expecting its PvP to play out like EvE, then of course you are disappointed. GuildWars is far more casual, and PvP is far more e-sport and competitive oriented. GuildWars is mostly for people who want a mmorpg feeling in a casual competitive game. This is also why GuildWars is in ESL. EvE would never go to ESL. Said that, you're also wrong about the graphics:
EvE graphics aren't really as good a people want us to believe. Remember, there are practically no enviroment it has to calculate and render. There isn't really much animation either(not with the ships). Most animations are from debris, missiles and other guns. Lighting in beautiful though, but that's at least what you can expect from it. So. Hardly no animations and no enviroment, plus no it's pratically 3d point and click(or slide to max speed, your call)
GW:
Quake II:
GW has equal texture resolution and same amount of polygons to quake 2? Yeah, right. GW has great graphics.
I rest my case.
actually guild wars has a fairly low polygon count for what you see. dont be fooled by bumpmapping or bloom (not sure if it uses BM but it looks like it some cases). also GW is not even near the league of EVE. EVE blows GW straight out of the water in all aspects of the game. even a bonus is EVE isnt filled with pricks who are upgrading .5% from runescape.
EvE graphics are way overhyped. It's just some fine detail ships with some ok lighting and lots of particles.
I'll throw in my two cents also-
I agree that compairing EVE with GW is not fair to both games. EVE is a great, great game- Some of my most loved screenshots are my blackbird crusing thru space. EVE's market system is massive and interesting on all fronts. Plus, some great in game music along with eve radia stations. However, there is a very large learning curve.
GW is a completly different game. Its a Diablo-ish single player game that can only be played online. Its a capture the flag with spells and swords rather than blasters and rocket-launchers. Its a log in and jump right into the fight type game. Whereas, EVE is not.
In EVE i would find myself mining, crafting, running missions, or just chilling listing to some funny DJ on EVE radio. I would spend hours reading the stoyline's and investigating different planets for the best prices to sell to- etcetera.
If you wanted a MMORPG that is something like EVE i would suggest- DAoC, shadowbane, or even UO- all of these are fantasy PvP games that have guild type castle battles. But, in all honesty, I cannot compair any fantasy MMO with what EVE has done.
EVE is one of the best games around- its not for everyone- Im not even playing atm. But you just wont find all the stuff that EVE has in any other game.
Lath
Originally posted by Jackcolt
Originally posted by bobbler
actually guild wars has a fairly low polygon count for what you see. dont be fooled by bumpmapping or bloom (not sure if it uses BM but it looks like it some cases). also GW is not even near the league of EVE. EVE blows GW straight out of the water in all aspects of the game. even a bonus is EVE isnt filled with pricks who are upgrading .5% from runescape.
If I created a sphere. Stretch a high resolution texture out on it. Randomize some starpositions. Create some decent ships with just about no animations at, and use some stock particle effects, would you then rate it high?EvE graphics are way overhyped. It's just some fine detail ships with some ok lighting and lots of particles.
ok. a high res texture is not stretched its 1:1 or compressed to increase details. anyways. there are not "some" star positions. theres so many that the people that played since alpha have not visited all of them. the ships have animations. but since when do you see a ship transforming and stuff? do you expect a ship to have joints to animate? even though they do with engines and such. now. we must think can guild wars engine render 5000+ star SYSTEMS that include ships npcs asteroids and other paraphenelia. well thats half server power too but the engine must render all of that. now lets talk about guild wars models.
http://www.gameplaymonthly.com/games/guildwars/Guild_Wars__2.jpg
in that picture we see a low poly count model. maybe 3 layer weather effects.short distance rendering and some 4 way cross piece of grass you know where it looks like an X from the top since its 2 textures turned a certain way to make it look 3D.
Look at this screenshot:
Not specially high texture resolution and normal polygon count. A 2 maybe 3 layered background(unless they ar e not very efficient and make 1 for each system) with some random stars(white flying pixels) and so on. No it's not really great. We've seen similar graphics for many years in freelancer for example.
I compared it's graphics to two games, Quake II and Noone Lives Forever.
I chose to give GuildWars a shot, becuase it was rated 2 here on www.mmorpg.com... keeping in mind the vast differences in other mmorpgs, yet I remain hesitant to play anything else on the list due to the contrast between EVE and GuildWars.
I'm going to continue to play GuildWars; I bought it afterall, need to get my moneys worth. And, I'll just think of it as a totally different experience and to pass the time while EVE trains up another lvl 5
why the hell are you comparing GW to EVE in the first place!? Guild wars isn't even an mmorpg to start with! this whole review makes no sense. "bad graphics" Yeah...right. the character models in guild wars are ugly, but the enviroment in guild wars are very impressive. in EVE, the space ship look quite good, but the rest of the game looks boring and unintresting. you are always looking at the same type of space.
there you have it, graphics. the only thing you can compare these two games to. your comparing an mmorpg to an online game. (thats right, Guild wars is NOT an mmorpg)
whats next, compare Lineage 2 to Warcraft 3?
Genre: Different
Style: Different
MMO: EVE yes, GW: Technically no.
The only things they have in common is that they're played online and um... well that's about it.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Oooh, I see. I bet this won't go over well here either then! I think Guildwars and EVE are both really well made, well run, groundbreaking games, but neither one of them really fit what I was looking for, so even though I have a lot of respect for the developers for creating such great games, I don't personally play either of them anymore.
Currently, I'm having a lot of fun playing City of Villains. While the game does have some flaws (it could use some more varied mission types for sure), I really enjoy the depth of customization available for your appearance and your skills, and I enjoy the fast paced casual nature of the game and find it fun.
Look! I said two games I don't play are both really good games, just not my style, and then I admitted that the game I currently play that I am having a lot of fun with has some flaws!
*sits back to watch MMORPG.com explode*
No, you have to pick either EVE or Guild Wars, don't you know? are you new or something!?
But, seeing how there is no monthly cost for GW, then I dont see a need to choose one or the other. Play both! No matter how many other MMORPGs I try and cancel, I can always go back to GW with no guilt as there are no monthly fees. Ya - I suppose I am cheap like that. I just really hate the idea of paying two or three monthly fees. Would rather keep it down to one.
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
I compared it's graphics to two games, Quake II and Noone Lives Forever.
And you are wrong in both aspects.
Anyways, why compare EvE and GW. You obviously(see my first post) tried GW hoping it something like EvE. That's like playing CS hoping it's like SC.
i've personally never played eve.
though guild wars is a great game. its just soo differnt and enjoyable for some one who has very little time to play, its utterly hands on and i'm doing something the entire time that i am playing. not watching a ship move through a pretty partical plane for 30 some mins. also i really like the PvP sures theres no risk execpt1- 5mins and your honor if your wierd like that, so i can freely EXPERIMENT instead of swear after trying a non standard build and losing. oh and did i mention that the game is the most balanced one on the market pvp wise.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Personally i prefer GW, Eve is very complicated and takes a lot of time to get to grips with and i think is for the more mature players.
It's good in a sense of realism to a certain extent but Eve is really not for me. I prefer more of an action based and PvP based game. Maybe i didnt play Eve for long enough, i only played for 2 weeks but i didnt really enjoy it.
As for Guild Wars, i think the PvP is amazing and the Graphics are good, although someone compared them to Quake 2, he obviously hasn't studyed the Guild Wars graphics too well...
The thing i like about Guild Wars is there is no grind to it. The equality of PvP. All the different builds and skills you can alternate between and also the fact that there is a counter for everything and its solely based around teamplay and interaction.
-Navsterz
I compared it's graphics to two games, Quake II and Noone Lives Forever.
And you are wrong in both aspects.
Anyways, why compare EvE and GW. You obviously(see my first post) tried GW hoping it something like EvE. That's like playing CS hoping it's like SC.
GW uses a modified Unreal 2.0 engine, and has about the same graphics capabilities as a result, certainly better than Q2 and NOLF. As far as polygon counts for models I'd say both games are bout the same for characters/ships (eve's ships are about 3000 poly's and I'd imagine GW's are about the same). GW also has to draw terrain whereas EVE doesn't, but EVE also can potentially have a lot more characters/npc's on screen than GW does.
Both games have good graphics, but that was never my personal reason for not liking guildwars, for me it was being stuck to the ground and corraled through the missions. There is basically one path to follow in the maps, no freedom of movement, the quests seem very generic as well, it really couldn't hold my interest as a result.