Originally posted by sushimees WoW is a grind. You get to lvl 60 and then raid non-stop the same dungeons over and over and over just to improve your equipment. That is GRIND!
I disagree, a grind is a way of obtaining more levels. At level 60 you can't gain anymore experience. You are saying that running a dungeon over and over again is a grind. But if that were the case, then Halo would be a grind too as well as every shooter, because you are constantly running the same levels over and over again.
Okay here is the logic. When you are level 60, which 20 months from release means pretty much everyone has 1 evel 60 main, you grind for as another poster said, materials/gold, items, reputation and honour. Doing all those activities requires doing the same thing, even in PvP you do the same thing over and over. Not just once, but like 100's of times. THAT is grinding. Getting rank 14 in PvP is grinding, getting full tier 2 armour is grinding, getting maximum rep in Alterac Valley, Zul'gurrub, etc is grinding, grinding for money so that you can maintain the grinding is, you guessed it, grinding.
Technically speaking you could ignore all instances up to the raid instances, relying on guild items, dropped items and the auction house. Since although even the most gear-dependant character, i.e. the warrior, would benefit they can still kill mobs using their skills. It obviosuly won't be as effective, but I am saying that you can grind from 1-60 without visiting one instance. So therefore you will either grind instances, or grind mobs etc to gain experience. It is still the same thing.
Just because some other games have a worse grind then WoW, doesnt excuse WoW from having one. There are 3 things to do, pvp, kill mobs, or "quest". although all the quests invelve killing x of y and turning it in to z. Crafting is a joke, you cant consider it a part of the main game. There could be other sides to the game, but the community killed it all for me.
The world of warcraft is an amazing world to explore, but, because everyone was so obsessed with levels, nobody ever wanted to explorer a dungeon with me on the side of a road and the likes. Ever think why its called "experience"?
You mention how it takes 2 weeks to hit 60 in your post like thats a selling point. thats exactly what im talking about. Its not about speeding up to max level, its about having fun and memorable experiences getting there. And at the end of the day of playing WoW, there was never anything unique to remember.
Originally posted by sushimees WoW is a grind. You get to lvl 60 and then raid non-stop the same dungeons over and over and over just to improve your equipment. That is GRIND!
I disagree, a grind is a way of obtaining more levels. At level 60 you can't gain anymore experience. You are saying that running a dungeon over and over again is a grind. But if that were the case, then Halo would be a grind too as well as every shooter, because you are constantly running the same levels over and over again.
to be honesy World Of Warcraft could and could not be a grind, in the end its only a game, your going to have to grind sometime or another in any game.. its just a way of life i guess.
but as long as we are all having fun, then i guess 'Blizzard' have hit there target, it makes us happy!
i suppose different drops from the monsters and creatur's help to make it a Non-boring combat experiance, to be perfectly honest, i think its a perfectly find 'MMO' and is worth playing no matter what, i just wish we didnt have to pay for them thats all.. would make it alot simpler...
plain and simple ... grind is a part of EVERY mmorpg in the market today, and will be in the future. Either it be a fantasy based game, space themed game, or a mmofps. All incorporate their own styles of 'grind'.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11
Originally posted by Gameloading
Originally posted by LordSlater
Originally posted by NagelFire He is right you know, You wont find a single MMORPG where you arent grinding. So yes, WoW is a grind. But some people can handle that better then others
Then you should try playing EvE then.
If my understanding is correct Grind = killing mobs doing repetative tasks to 'Level up', So that you can reach the end game.
In eve you dont have to grind to level up you select what skills you want to learn and are told in real time how long before you gain a level in that skill. While your chosen skill is leveling up you can actually platy the game and do whatever you want be it mine ore PvP PvE trade goods Make goods etc. and when your timer runs out the skill is done and you can select your next skill.
Another thing is the skill continues to count down even if you are not logged on. So got a long skill time to get through set it before you go to bed/school/work etc.
in EVE you grind for money. its the same thing.
No in Eve some people grind for money, some people exclusively Pirate others players for money. Some people run trade runs for money. Eve is a diverse game.
Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading
Originally posted by gestalt11
Originally posted by Gameloading
Originally posted by LordSlater
Originally posted by NagelFire He is right you know, You wont find a single MMORPG where you arent grinding. So yes, WoW is a grind. But some people can handle that better then others
Then you should try playing EvE then.
If my understanding is correct Grind = killing mobs doing repetative tasks to 'Level up', So that you can reach the end game.
In eve you dont have to grind to level up you select what skills you want to learn and are told in real time how long before you gain a level in that skill. While your chosen skill is leveling up you can actually platy the game and do whatever you want be it mine ore PvP PvE trade goods Make goods etc. and when your timer runs out the skill is done and you can select your next skill.
Another thing is the skill continues to count down even if you are not logged on. So got a long skill time to get through set it before you go to bed/school/work etc.
in EVE you grind for money. its the same thing.
No in Eve some people grind for money, some people exclusively Pirate others players for money. Some people run trade runs for money. Eve is a diverse game.
The grind to rank 14 is the WORST grind I've ever attempted in my gaming history. EVER. And I'm going to stop at 13.
Getting your gear from raiding is also a grind. Some people will argue it's "fun" but that's not because of the grind ; that's because you're in a guild full of fun people. And that's irrelevant to the discussion. To significantly make your level 60 character progress in WoW, ya just gotta grind. Unless you're happy with those green gear you buy from the AH and even for those ya gotta grind for gold!
WoW's really fun 1-59 and the early 60. But face it, it's a major grind after that. Stop being a bunch of Blizzard apologists seriously.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11
Originally posted by Gameloading
all the things you listed are also grinding...
You consider pvp pirating a grind?
If you do that over and over again, yes.
But each iteration is very different so it its not like the reptitions of killing the same PvE mob over and over. Its completely different encounters each time. I don't think you can realistically call it a grind without calling every single action in life a grind because it all involves muscles contractions and the expenditures of ATP and on some level is just the same thing over and over.
Originally posted by rmeyer It's better to make a statement with a case, than to simply make a statement. How bout some examples.
what do you grind?
friendly/honored/exalted/revered reputations. IF you're starting off at neutral/friendly and not some negative rep.
rep with whom? EXACTLY~!! with everyone and their mother's baby's uncle's aunt's dog's sister.
pvp faction rep x3 factions. pvp rank. want those groovy things from the argent dawn vendor? sure, np, just grind up to revered rep... that cool stuff from... actually, let me save some time.
now, i didn't put a link to pvp ranks, and what you get when you grind to each new rank.
nor did i put a listing of tier 0, 0.5, 1, 2, etcetera gear, whom you have to kill 500 times in order to equip your 40 man guild with gear, nor how much grind is involved for how many people in order to do that.
so, JUST with factions, you've so far got at least 13 factions to grind rep with (including the three bg factions). throw in pvp rank gear grind, throw in tier XYZ grind.
now, this isn't taking into account anything you did to reach lvl 60. this is, essentially POST lvl 60.
then we have item grinds, like felcloth, we could touch on that sort of thing if you desire. but, i think i've given a few examples of grind.
so, there is a whole lot of grinding going on in wow. the question should probably be, what game exists that has MORE grind than wow (which adds more grindage every new patch it seems).
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 No in Eve some people grind for money, some people exclusively Pirate others players for money. Some people run trade runs for money. Eve is a diverse game.
all the things you listed are also grinding...
You consider pvp pirating a grind?
If you do that over and over again, yes.
So for example you must consider a game like starcraft a grind then. after all you are doing the same thing each level.
Pirating in eve is not a grind because your prey does all it can to get away or fight you therefore its different and challenging each time and its actually fun. In wow land tho its a case off doing an instance 30-40 times just to get a HELMET for gods sake and there is no garantee that after 30-40 times you will get it now that is a grind and that is not fun. At least with PvP piracy its fun and different every time.
Then there is trading that is challenging too for eve supports a real time player driven market stretching across 5000 star systems. Prices fluctuate due to player demand and there are always other ttraders to compete with and of course PvP pirates to avoid. Then there is Mining now this is the closest i have seen to grinding thing tho is mining is not nessasary to advancing in this game. However if you decide to get real into mining you will need to move to low security space or lawless space where you can find the best ores to mine. Problem is you get no NPC protection there so watch out for PvP'ers
Thats just a taster of what is available in eve.
No in Eve some people grind for money, some people exclusively Pirate others players for money. Some people run trade runs for money. Eve is a diverse game.
all the things you listed are also grinding...
You consider pvp pirating a grind?
If you do that over and over again, yes.
So for example you must consider a game like starcraft a grind then.
after all you are doing the same thing each level.
Pirating in eve is not a grind because your prey does all it can to get away or fight you therefore its different and challenging each time and its actually fun.
In wow land tho its a case off doing an instance 30-40 times just to get a HELMET for gods sake and there is no garantee that after 30-40 times you will get it now that is a grind and that is not fun.
At least with PvP piracy its fun and different every time.
Then there is trading that is challenging too for eve supports a real time player driven market stretching across 5000 star systems. Prices fluctuate due to player demand and there are always other ttraders to compete with and of course PvP pirates to avoid.
Then there is Mining now this is the closest i have seen to grinding thing tho is mining is not nessasary to advancing in this game. However if you decide to get real into mining you will need to move to low security space or lawless space where you can find the best ores to mine. Problem is you get no NPC protection there so watch out for PvP'ers
Thats just a taster of what is available in eve.
all the things you listed are also grinding...
You consider pvp pirating a grind?
If you do that over and over again, yes.
So for example you must consider a game like starcraft a grind then.
after all you are doing the same thing each level.
Pirating in eve is not a grind because your prey does all it can to get away or fight you therefore its different and challenging each time and its actually fun.
In wow land tho its a case off doing an instance 30-40 times just to get a HELMET for gods sake and there is no garantee that after 30-40 times you will get it now that is a grind and that is not fun.
At least with PvP piracy its fun and different every time.
Then there is trading that is challenging too for eve supports a real time player driven market stretching across 5000 star systems. Prices fluctuate due to player demand and there are always other ttraders to compete with and of course PvP pirates to avoid.
Then there is Mining now this is the closest i have seen to grinding thing tho is mining is not nessasary to advancing in this game. However if you decide to get real into mining you will need to move to low security space or lawless space where you can find the best ores to mine. Problem is you get no NPC protection there so watch out for PvP'ers
Thats just a taster of what is available in eve.
You consider pvp pirating a grind?
If you do that over and over again, yes.
So for example you must consider a game like starcraft a grind then.
after all you are doing the same thing each level.
Pirating in eve is not a grind because your prey does all it can to get away or fight you therefore its different and challenging each time and its actually fun.
In wow land tho its a case off doing an instance 30-40 times just to get a HELMET for gods sake and there is no garantee that after 30-40 times you will get it now that is a grind and that is not fun.
At least with PvP piracy its fun and different every time.
Then there is trading that is challenging too for eve supports a real time player driven market stretching across 5000 star systems. Prices fluctuate due to player demand and there are always other ttraders to compete with and of course PvP pirates to avoid.
Then there is Mining now this is the closest i have seen to grinding thing tho is mining is not nessasary to advancing in this game. However if you decide to get real into mining you will need to move to low security space or lawless space where you can find the best ores to mine. Problem is you get no NPC protection there so watch out for PvP'ers
Thats just a taster of what is available in eve.
If you do that over and over again, yes.
So for example you must consider a game like starcraft a grind then.
after all you are doing the same thing each level.
Pirating in eve is not a grind because your prey does all it can to get away or fight you therefore its different and challenging each time and its actually fun.
In wow land tho its a case off doing an instance 30-40 times just to get a HELMET for gods sake and there is no garantee that after 30-40 times you will get it now that is a grind and that is not fun.
At least with PvP piracy its fun and different every time.
Then there is trading that is challenging too for eve supports a real time player driven market stretching across 5000 star systems. Prices fluctuate due to player demand and there are always other ttraders to compete with and of course PvP pirates to avoid.
Then there is Mining now this is the closest i have seen to grinding thing tho is mining is not nessasary to advancing in this game. However if you decide to get real into mining you will need to move to low security space or lawless space where you can find the best ores to mine. Problem is you get no NPC protection there so watch out for PvP'ers
Thats just a taster of what is available in eve.
So for example you must consider a game like starcraft a grind then.
after all you are doing the same thing each level.
Pirating in eve is not a grind because your prey does all it can to get away or fight you therefore its different and challenging each time and its actually fun.
In wow land tho its a case off doing an instance 30-40 times just to get a HELMET for gods sake and there is no garantee that after 30-40 times you will get it now that is a grind and that is not fun.
At least with PvP piracy its fun and different every time.
Then there is trading that is challenging too for eve supports a real time player driven market stretching across 5000 star systems. Prices fluctuate due to player demand and there are always other ttraders to compete with and of course PvP pirates to avoid.
Then there is Mining now this is the closest i have seen to grinding thing tho is mining is not nessasary to advancing in this game. However if you decide to get real into mining you will need to move to low security space or lawless space where you can find the best ores to mine. Problem is you get no NPC protection there so watch out for PvP'ers
For short if u don't want it to be a grind it's not, if you're looking for it then it can be, so shut up that's the story, but mostly it's not a grind at all you can't get any expierience off of lvl 40 guys while you're sitting on the sideline, you'll die in an instant...
Tresspassers will be shot survivers shall be shot again!
Originally posted by Alexgriffin For short if u don't want it to be a grind it's not, if you're looking for it then it can be, so shut up that's the story, but mostly it's not a grind at all you can't get any expierience off of lvl 40 guys while you're sitting on the sideline, you'll die in an instant... Tresspassers will be shot survivers shall be shot again!
telling people to shut up, in a thread about whether a game is a grind or not, because you don't like the topic -- FTW~!!
um, yeah, right. i'm not even sure what the above post is saying, especially the part in red... cuz if it's pvp -- you don't get xp from killing the enemy players, you get xp from winning a bg if you're under lvl 60...
translation please?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by Xenduli Okay here is the logic. When you are level 60, which 20 months from release means pretty much everyone has 1 evel 60 main, you grind for as another poster said, materials/gold, items, reputation and honour. Doing all those activities requires doing the same thing, even in PvP you do the same thing over and over. Not just once, but like 100's of times. THAT is grinding. Getting rank 14 in PvP is grinding, getting full tier 2 armour is grinding, getting maximum rep in Alterac Valley, Zul'gurrub, etc is grinding, grinding for money so that you can maintain the grinding is, you guessed it, grinding. Technically speaking you could ignore all instances up to the raid instances, relying on guild items, dropped items and the auction house. Since although even the most gear-dependant character, i.e. the warrior, would benefit they can still kill mobs using their skills. It obviosuly won't be as effective, but I am saying that you can grind from 1-60 without visiting one instance. So therefore you will either grind instances, or grind mobs etc to gain experience. It is still the same thing. I fail to see how WoW is NOT not a grind.
No that's totally different. I can do different strategies and such like that in FPS. And like someone said "Grind can be fun" and the replier "Not in WoW" Yeah Maybe grind can be fun, but not in WoW, seriously. Doing the same dungeon with the same strategy is a grind and is boring! It's from point A to point B. But there is no point A to point B in FPS games and you can always expect some different suprises in FPS games, but not in WoW, all of the bosses act the same, all of the quests are basically the same.
Hard to explain, maybe someone else can, but FPS games and MMORPG's are totally different. There is no such thing as grind in FPS games, but there is grind in every MMORPG.
Originally posted by sushimees Hard to explain, maybe someone else can, but FPS games and MMORPG's are totally different. There is no such thing as grind in FPS games, but there is grind in every MMORPG.
If you are at level 60 then there is no such thing as a grind because you have already reached the maximum level. At this point an mmorpg and a fps become equivalent, because you are jumping into rounds of gamesplay. If you do a raid with a bunch of players you are competing for weapons and items while moving through a level. If you play a round of battlegrounds, you are jumping into a round of gameplay, just like a shooter. Wow rewards you for your efforts that can become perminant. That's the only difference at this point, other than the fact that WOW seems to have failed when it comes to the fair and fun aspect of battlegrounds.
Crikey mmorpgs are different from FPS's, heard it here first everyone. Seriously though don't you grind for items, honour, reputation at level 60. Most people would say moreso, just because you don't gain levels, doesn't mean you stop grinding.
I like WoW, but it is still a grind, every MMO I have ever played is a grind, hell every game I have ever played is a grind.
Halo, WoW, Uo, Unreal, different games but still a grind in my eyes, by which I mean I am doing a repetitive task to reach a seemingly pointless goal. whether it is raid MC x times to get loot in WoW, or get x sniper shots to get a medal in Halo, it still seems grindish to me.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
i didn't read this entire thread but seriously....if you actually think wow isn't a grind then you have not been playing it long enough.
go grind bg after bg for 10+ hours per day every day just so you can get to "high warlord" status and then tell me its not a grind.
or go raid for 6 hours a day to get your uber leet tier 3 gear and tell me its not a grind. yeah its defiantly not a grind between lvl's 1-59 but after that it turns into a huge grind.
oh and i am not hating on wow, i play the game ATM and know fully well about the grind that is wow. but don't sit up here and tell me its not a grind, because if you actually think that...then you are either not max level yet or you are fooling yourself.
Originally posted by rmeyer If you are at level 60 then there is no such thing as a grind because you have already reached the maximum level. At this point an mmorpg and a fps become equivalent, because you are jumping into rounds of gamesplay. If you do a raid with a bunch of players you are competing for weapons and items while moving through a level. If you play a round of battlegrounds, you are jumping into a round of gameplay, just like a shooter. Wow rewards you for your efforts that can become perminant. That's the only difference at this point, other than the fact that WOW seems to have failed when it comes to the fair and fun aspect of battlegrounds.
sorry but i couldn't disagree more, with this logic you are saying no mmog is a grind as long as they are max level? if you are doing the same thing over and over and over and over again..weather it be a bg instance, a raid instance or just gold farming...that is a grind.
if playing the same bg's 100's of times over and over again isn't grinding then i don't know what is. oh and the difference between a FPS game and doing a round of BG's in wow is...in wow you have a choice of only 3 maps, so you are doing the same damn instance over and over again.
not only that but once you get max reputation then it because pointless to do that bg other than to just grind honor. you can spin it anyway you want but it wont change the fact that wow is a huge grind fest at endgame.
maybe if they had 100's of different bg's you could do with all sorts of different types of games it would be alot better (like an FPS) but its not, its the same damn bg instance over and over again.
now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying grinding = bad but i am saying wow bg's = suck because of the mindless grinding of the same instances over and over for at least 10+ hours per day if you want to get to the highest rank.
again....if that is not a grind, then i have no clue what is.
Originally posted by rmeyer Originally posted by sushimees Hard to explain, maybe someone else can, but FPS games and MMORPG's are totally different. There is no such thing as grind in FPS games, but there is grind in every MMORPG.
If you are at level 60 then there is no such thing as a grind because you have already reached the maximum level. At this point an mmorpg and a fps become equivalent, because you are jumping into rounds of gamesplay. If you do a raid with a bunch of players you are competing for weapons and items while moving through a level. If you play a round of battlegrounds, you are jumping into a round of gameplay, just like a shooter. Wow rewards you for your efforts that can become perminant. That's the only difference at this point, other than the fact that WOW seems to have failed when it comes to the fair and fun aspect of battlegrounds.
actually, the opposite is true. you don't hit the real grind in wow until AFTER you hit lvl 60.
did you miss the post i made in this thread about factions and faction gear/vendors? it was in direct reply to a post of yours asking for examples of grind in wow.
also, wow isn't about levels, it's a total gear-based game. everyone pretty much has one "good" talent build for "raiding". so it's not like there's a lot of choice there. "great" gear is had by grinding thru and getting tier 0, then tier 0.5, then tier 1, et cetera, gear.
having to do the same raid instance 150+ times isn't you jumping into an fps, with new people, starting a character from scratch and building it up every time. those comparisons are like saying "hey, i have this cool new hd tv, it's almost as good as this new refrigerator we bought (the fridge has an ice maker in the door, and all sorts of cool shelves)". does that comparison make ANY sense at all? that's how it sounds when you compare an fps to an mmo.
please see previous posts in this thread about how your statements about wow and grind are not totally accurate.
thank you, now please drive thru.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Comments
Okay here is the logic. When you are level 60, which 20 months from release means pretty much everyone has 1 evel 60 main, you grind for as another poster said, materials/gold, items, reputation and honour. Doing all those activities requires doing the same thing, even in PvP you do the same thing over and over. Not just once, but like 100's of times. THAT is grinding. Getting rank 14 in PvP is grinding, getting full tier 2 armour is grinding, getting maximum rep in Alterac Valley, Zul'gurrub, etc is grinding, grinding for money so that you can maintain the grinding is, you guessed it, grinding.
Technically speaking you could ignore all instances up to the raid instances, relying on guild items, dropped items and the auction house. Since although even the most gear-dependant character, i.e. the warrior, would benefit they can still kill mobs using their skills. It obviosuly won't be as effective, but I am saying that you can grind from 1-60 without visiting one instance. So therefore you will either grind instances, or grind mobs etc to gain experience. It is still the same thing.
I fail to see how WoW is NOT not a grind.
No annoying animated GIF here!
Just because some other games have a worse grind then WoW, doesnt excuse WoW from having one. There are 3 things to do, pvp, kill mobs, or "quest". although all the quests invelve killing x of y and turning it in to z. Crafting is a joke, you cant consider it a part of the main game. There could be other sides to the game, but the community killed it all for me.
The world of warcraft is an amazing world to explore, but, because everyone was so obsessed with levels, nobody ever wanted to explorer a dungeon with me on the side of a road and the likes. Ever think why its called "experience"?
You mention how it takes 2 weeks to hit 60 in your post like thats a selling point. thats exactly what im talking about. Its not about speeding up to max level, its about having fun and memorable experiences getting there. And at the end of the day of playing WoW, there was never anything unique to remember.
in the end its only a game, your going to have to grind sometime or another in any game..
its just a way of life i guess.
but as long as we are all having fun,
then i guess 'Blizzard' have hit there target, it makes us happy!
i suppose different drops from the monsters and creatur's help to make it a Non-boring combat experiance, to be perfectly honest, i think its a perfectly find 'MMO' and is worth playing no matter what, i just wish we didnt have to pay for them thats all.. would make it alot simpler...
~Littlema~
/sigh
plain and simple ... grind is a part of EVERY mmorpg in the market today, and will be in the future. Either it be a fantasy based game, space themed game, or a mmofps. All incorporate their own styles of 'grind'.
Then you should try playing EvE then.
If my understanding is correct Grind = killing mobs doing repetative tasks to 'Level up', So that you can reach the end game.
In eve you dont have to grind to level up you select what skills you want to learn and are told in real time how long before you gain a level in that skill. While your chosen skill is leveling up you can actually platy the game and do whatever you want be it mine ore PvP PvE trade goods Make goods etc. and when your timer runs out the skill is done and you can select your next skill.
Another thing is the skill continues to count down even if you are not logged on. So got a long skill time to get through set it before you go to bed/school/work etc.
in EVE you grind for money. its the same thing.
No in Eve some people grind for money, some people exclusively Pirate others players for money. Some people run trade runs for money. Eve is a diverse game.
all the things you listed are also grinding...
You consider pvp pirating a grind?
WoW, at 60, is nothing BUT a grind.
Cheers.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Then you should try playing EvE then.
If my understanding is correct Grind = killing mobs doing repetative tasks to 'Level up', So that you can reach the end game.
In eve you dont have to grind to level up you select what skills you want to learn and are told in real time how long before you gain a level in that skill. While your chosen skill is leveling up you can actually platy the game and do whatever you want be it mine ore PvP PvE trade goods Make goods etc. and when your timer runs out the skill is done and you can select your next skill.
Another thing is the skill continues to count down even if you are not logged on. So got a long skill time to get through set it before you go to bed/school/work etc.
in EVE you grind for money. its the same thing.
No in Eve some people grind for money, some people exclusively Pirate others players for money. Some people run trade runs for money. Eve is a diverse game.
all the things you listed are also grinding...
You consider pvp pirating a grind?
If you do that over and over again, yes.
The grind to rank 14 is the WORST grind I've ever attempted in my gaming history. EVER. And I'm going to stop at 13.
Getting your gear from raiding is also a grind. Some people will argue it's "fun" but that's not because of the grind ; that's because you're in a guild full of fun people. And that's irrelevant to the discussion. To significantly make your level 60 character progress in WoW, ya just gotta grind. Unless you're happy with those green gear you buy from the AH and even for those ya gotta grind for gold!
WoW's really fun 1-59 and the early 60. But face it, it's a major grind after that. Stop being a bunch of Blizzard apologists seriously.
all the things you listed are also grinding...
You consider pvp pirating a grind?
If you do that over and over again, yes.
But each iteration is very different so it its not like the reptitions of killing the same PvE mob over and over. Its completely different encounters each time. I don't think you can realistically call it a grind without calling every single action in life a grind because it all involves muscles contractions and the expenditures of ATP and on some level is just the same thing over and over.
friendly/honored/exalted/revered reputations. IF you're starting off at neutral/friendly and not some negative rep.
rep with whom? EXACTLY~!! with everyone and their mother's baby's uncle's aunt's dog's sister.
pvp faction rep x3 factions. pvp rank. want those groovy things from the argent dawn vendor? sure, np, just grind up to revered rep... that cool stuff from... actually, let me save some time.
here's the reps: http://worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/reputation.html
here's a list of folks to grind rep with for good stuff: http://worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/factions/
here's the three bg factions to grind rep with for more good stuff: http://worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battlegrounds/
now, i didn't put a link to pvp ranks, and what you get when you grind to each new rank.
nor did i put a listing of tier 0, 0.5, 1, 2, etcetera gear, whom you have to kill 500 times in order to equip your 40 man guild with gear, nor how much grind is involved for how many people in order to do that.
so, JUST with factions, you've so far got at least 13 factions to grind rep with (including the three bg factions). throw in pvp rank gear grind, throw in tier XYZ grind.
now, this isn't taking into account anything you did to reach lvl 60. this is, essentially POST lvl 60.
then we have item grinds, like felcloth, we could touch on that sort of thing if you desire. but, i think i've given a few examples of grind.
so, there is a whole lot of grinding going on in wow. the question should probably be, what game exists that has MORE grind than wow (which adds more grindage every new patch it seems).
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
all the things you listed are also grinding...
You consider pvp pirating a grind?
If you do that over and over again, yes.
So for example you must consider a game like starcraft a grind then.
after all you are doing the same thing each level.
Pirating in eve is not a grind because your prey does all it can to get away or fight you therefore its different and challenging each time and its actually fun.
In wow land tho its a case off doing an instance 30-40 times just to get a HELMET for gods sake and there is no garantee that after 30-40 times you will get it now that is a grind and that is not fun.
At least with PvP piracy its fun and different every time.
Then there is trading that is challenging too for eve supports a real time player driven market stretching across 5000 star systems. Prices fluctuate due to player demand and there are always other ttraders to compete with and of course PvP pirates to avoid.
Then there is Mining now this is the closest i have seen to grinding thing tho is mining is not nessasary to advancing in this game. However if you decide to get real into mining you will need to move to low security space or lawless space where you can find the best ores to mine. Problem is you get no NPC protection there so watch out for PvP'ers
Thats just a taster of what is available in eve.
all the things you listed are also grinding...You consider pvp pirating a grind?
If you do that over and over again, yes.
So for example you must consider a game like starcraft a grind then.
after all you are doing the same thing each level.
Pirating in eve is not a grind because your prey does all it can to get away or fight you therefore its different and challenging each time and its actually fun.
In wow land tho its a case off doing an instance 30-40 times just to get a HELMET for gods sake and there is no garantee that after 30-40 times you will get it now that is a grind and that is not fun.
At least with PvP piracy its fun and different every time.
Then there is trading that is challenging too for eve supports a real time player driven market stretching across 5000 star systems. Prices fluctuate due to player demand and there are always other ttraders to compete with and of course PvP pirates to avoid.
Then there is Mining now this is the closest i have seen to grinding thing tho is mining is not nessasary to advancing in this game. However if you decide to get real into mining you will need to move to low security space or lawless space where you can find the best ores to mine. Problem is you get no NPC protection there so watch out for PvP'ers
Thats just a taster of what is available in eve.
You consider pvp pirating a grind?If you do that over and over again, yes.
So for example you must consider a game like starcraft a grind then.
after all you are doing the same thing each level.
Pirating in eve is not a grind because your prey does all it can to get away or fight you therefore its different and challenging each time and its actually fun.
In wow land tho its a case off doing an instance 30-40 times just to get a HELMET for gods sake and there is no garantee that after 30-40 times you will get it now that is a grind and that is not fun.
At least with PvP piracy its fun and different every time.
Then there is trading that is challenging too for eve supports a real time player driven market stretching across 5000 star systems. Prices fluctuate due to player demand and there are always other ttraders to compete with and of course PvP pirates to avoid.
Then there is Mining now this is the closest i have seen to grinding thing tho is mining is not nessasary to advancing in this game. However if you decide to get real into mining you will need to move to low security space or lawless space where you can find the best ores to mine. Problem is you get no NPC protection there so watch out for PvP'ers
Thats just a taster of what is available in eve.
If you do that over and over again, yes.So for example you must consider a game like starcraft a grind then.
after all you are doing the same thing each level.
Pirating in eve is not a grind because your prey does all it can to get away or fight you therefore its different and challenging each time and its actually fun.
In wow land tho its a case off doing an instance 30-40 times just to get a HELMET for gods sake and there is no garantee that after 30-40 times you will get it now that is a grind and that is not fun.
At least with PvP piracy its fun and different every time.
Then there is trading that is challenging too for eve supports a real time player driven market stretching across 5000 star systems. Prices fluctuate due to player demand and there are always other ttraders to compete with and of course PvP pirates to avoid.
Then there is Mining now this is the closest i have seen to grinding thing tho is mining is not nessasary to advancing in this game. However if you decide to get real into mining you will need to move to low security space or lawless space where you can find the best ores to mine. Problem is you get no NPC protection there so watch out for PvP'ers
Thats just a taster of what is available in eve.
So for example you must consider a game like starcraft a grind then.
after all you are doing the same thing each level.
Pirating in eve is not a grind because your prey does all it can to get away or fight you therefore its different and challenging each time and its actually fun.
In wow land tho its a case off doing an instance 30-40 times just to get a HELMET for gods sake and there is no garantee that after 30-40 times you will get it now that is a grind and that is not fun.
At least with PvP piracy its fun and different every time.
Then there is trading that is challenging too for eve supports a real time player driven market stretching across 5000 star systems. Prices fluctuate due to player demand and there are always other ttraders to compete with and of course PvP pirates to avoid.
Then there is Mining now this is the closest i have seen to grinding thing tho is mining is not nessasary to advancing in this game. However if you decide to get real into mining you will need to move to low security space or lawless space where you can find the best ores to mine. Problem is you get no NPC protection there so watch out for PvP'ers
Thats just a taster of what is available in eve.
For short if u don't want it to be a grind it's not, if you're looking for it then it can be, so shut up that's the story, but mostly it's not a grind at all you can't get any expierience off of lvl 40 guys while you're sitting on the sideline, you'll die in an instant...
um, yeah, right.
translation please?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Actually, in Eve you can make money by using your brain. Of course, you can grind but that's for the WoW style gamers among us.
Err how is that different?
No annoying animated GIF here!
Crikey mmorpgs are different from FPS's, heard it here first everyone. Seriously though don't you grind for items, honour, reputation at level 60. Most people would say moreso, just because you don't gain levels, doesn't mean you stop grinding.
No annoying animated GIF here!
I like WoW, but it is still a grind, every MMO I have ever played is a grind, hell every game I have ever played is a grind.
Halo, WoW, Uo, Unreal, different games but still a grind in my eyes, by which I mean I am doing a repetitive task to reach a seemingly pointless goal. whether it is raid MC x times to get loot in WoW, or get x sniper shots to get a medal in Halo, it still seems grindish to me.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
i didn't read this entire thread but seriously....if you actually think wow isn't a grind then you have not been playing it long enough.
go grind bg after bg for 10+ hours per day every day just so you can get to "high warlord" status and then tell me its not a grind.
or go raid for 6 hours a day to get your uber leet tier 3 gear and tell me its not a grind. yeah its defiantly not a grind between lvl's 1-59 but after that it turns into a huge grind.
oh and i am not hating on wow, i play the game ATM and know fully well about the grind that is wow. but don't sit up here and tell me its not a grind, because if you actually think that...then you are either not max level yet or you are fooling yourself.
sorry but i couldn't disagree more, with this logic you are saying no mmog is a grind as long as they are max level? if you are doing the same thing over and over and over and over again..weather it be a bg instance, a raid instance or just gold farming...that is a grind.
if playing the same bg's 100's of times over and over again isn't grinding then i don't know what is. oh and the difference between a FPS game and doing a round of BG's in wow is...in wow you have a choice of only 3 maps, so you are doing the same damn instance over and over again.
not only that but once you get max reputation then it because pointless to do that bg other than to just grind honor. you can spin it anyway you want but it wont change the fact that wow is a huge grind fest at endgame.
maybe if they had 100's of different bg's you could do with all sorts of different types of games it would be alot better (like an FPS) but its not, its the same damn bg instance over and over again.
now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying grinding = bad but i am saying wow bg's = suck because of the mindless grinding of the same instances over and over for at least 10+ hours per day if you want to get to the highest rank.
again....if that is not a grind, then i have no clue what is.
actually, the opposite is true. you don't hit the real grind in wow until AFTER you hit lvl 60.
did you miss the post i made in this thread about factions and faction gear/vendors? it was in direct reply to a post of yours asking for examples of grind in wow.
also, wow isn't about levels, it's a total gear-based game. everyone pretty much has one "good" talent build for "raiding". so it's not like there's a lot of choice there. "great" gear is had by grinding thru and getting tier 0, then tier 0.5, then tier 1, et cetera, gear.
having to do the same raid instance 150+ times isn't you jumping into an fps, with new people, starting a character from scratch and building it up every time. those comparisons are like saying "hey, i have this cool new hd tv, it's almost as good as this new refrigerator we bought (the fridge has an ice maker in the door, and all sorts of cool shelves)". does that comparison make ANY sense at all? that's how it sounds when you compare an fps to an mmo.
please see previous posts in this thread about how your statements about wow and grind are not totally accurate.
thank you, now please drive thru.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?