Originally posted by jimmyman99 Can a new player actually equip web thingie? would the power/cpu levels of the noob frig allow to install that thing?
It depends on the module.
Things like afterburners and MWDs, and shield extenders and armor "expanders" come in "ship class" levels because of the boost amounts and strength they have. IE: 1MN = frigate size.... 10MN = cruiser size... 100MN = battleship size
Things like webbifiers and scrammers are universal modules. That means that any ship from frigate to battleship can equip them at the same cost of resources. Now, percentage wise, it will cost a frigate more resources, but they can still equip them and run them. Frigates generally have fewer slots anyways, and, in most fleet engagements, they aren't really used for damage. They're used for tackeling.
We can agree to disagree, or we can bicker constantly... either way, I'm right. SobaKai.com There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
I have noticed that all you offer is a pvp..fleet action type of response to the OP ..I do not pvp dont like it never will I do like the production/mission running side though ...when I fire up all 4 of my accounts I can harvest/mine to beat the band ...there many corps that will share there mining ops wealth equally between the peeps who participate is said ops ..an excellent way to make cash & train skills..for more exciting endeavors..
also its kinda fun to have a impact on a systems economy & no you dont need muti accounts to do it ....I play many other games and when they loose there luster I alway come back to eve ...
the statement about eve devs listining is a bit off they listen to those that share there vision of eve ONLY ..other wise there would be hundreds on new missions by now and there are not ...the eve devs want o0 space confilect ..every thing they do seems to be aimed to push players into 0o space .
EvE is a fun game to a point ( at least for me) the thing I like best is the skill training I can go away for weeks at a time & come back for a min and pop a new skill in the oven and go play something else ..or I can indy mine on one box and play something else on another ...
EvE is also a great work place game you can indy mine & do your computer based job at the same time ..run afew missions when nobody is looking ..lol
I dont think i received a direct answer to my question, im still very curious to get an answer, would my starting frig be able to equip web-thingie (assuming i have required skills to equip it)? Becuase I think the CPU or CAP levels of the starting frig will not allow me to equip web. By starting frig i mean the free frig that you get when u just joined the game, NOT the first frig you buy.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 I dont think i received a direct answer to my question, im still very curious to get an answer, would my starting frig be able to equip web-thingie (assuming i have required skills to equip it)? Becuase I think the CPU or CAP levels of the starting frig will not allow me to equip web. By starting frig i mean the free frig that you get when u just joined the game, NOT the first frig you buy.
I'm not quite sure why you wish to be so technical. It can. It has been answered. It will require much more training than, say, buying a frig when you get done with the tutorial and equiping it, but yes, it can be equiped on the newb ship.
The starting frig is literally just a shell around your pod that allows you to carry a few things and fly a bit faster. Unless it is for pure enjoyment and humor, nobody with any brains would enter a fleet engagement or do any kind of actual fighting in a newb ship.
We can agree to disagree, or we can bicker constantly... either way, I'm right. SobaKai.com There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
The reason i was being very specific because if you cant really equip webifier on a starting ship, for whatever reason, right away or after spending just a few hours, then the whole reasoning that noobs can tackle in PvP is flawed, becuase either they have to spend a lot of hours/days raising their skills high enough to be able to equip it OR theyd have to purchase a better frig, which is not easy for a noob. When my new frig that I bought for 100K or so got destroyed, i went back to start up frig becuase I couldnt afford to re-buy that new frig. Top insurance just costs too much, and lower insurance barely covered the cost of replacing my soiled pants.
Thats the only reason for my specific and technical question - can noobs be trully effecting from the start, without investing DAYS into lerning required skills OR spending money re-buying frigs that can equip webifier.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 The reason i was being very specific because if you cant really equip webifier on a starting ship, for whatever reason, right away or after spending just a few hours, then the whole reasoning that noobs can tackle in PvP is flawed, becuase either they have to spend a lot of hours/days raising their skills high enough to be able to equip it OR theyd have to purchase a better frig, which is not easy for a noob. When my new frig that I bought for 100K or so got destroyed, i went back to start up frig becuase I couldnt afford to re-buy that new frig. Top insurance just costs too much, and lower insurance barely covered the cost of replacing my soiled pants.
Thats the only reason for my specific and technical question - can noobs be trully effecting from the start, without investing DAYS into lerning required skills OR spending money re-buying frigs that can equip webifier.
i still havent met any player that couldnt easily replace any tier 2 frig. if you had difficulties its because you are a very bad player. and yes, the free noob frig can perfectly fit a web or a scrambler if it has the skills.
come on, a tier 2 frig costs only 80k isks, even less if you pay the 20k isks that costs the full premium insurance. that is 10 minutes mining, or half level 1 mission.
CONCLUSION: YES, NEW PLAYERS CAN BE VERY EFFECTIVE AND IMPORTANT ON PVP FIGHTS!
Originally posted by jimmyman99 The reason i was being very specific because if you cant really equip webifier on a starting ship, for whatever reason, right away or after spending just a few hours, then the whole reasoning that noobs can tackle in PvP is flawed, becuase either they have to spend a lot of hours/days raising their skills high enough to be able to equip it OR theyd have to purchase a better frig, which is not easy for a noob. When my new frig that I bought for 100K or so got destroyed, i went back to start up frig becuase I couldnt afford to re-buy that new frig. Top insurance just costs too much, and lower insurance barely covered the cost of replacing my soiled pants.
Thats the only reason for my specific and technical question - can noobs be trully effecting from the start, without investing DAYS into lerning required skills OR spending money re-buying frigs that can equip webifier.
If you did the missions after the tutorial, you should have enough money to buy a new frig. As stated in another post (somewhere), don't expect to WIN in PvP as a newb. And, don't expect to win in missions simply because you have your ship equiped. Just because you CAN win in PvP as a newbie... doesn't mean you WILL win in PvP as a newbie. And, most level 1 skills take around 30 to 45 minutes to train... if that. That gives you the tutorial to train some skills. Run the missions to get money. Save it up. Stop having the PCP syndrome, and you'll do fine. As a Vet, I'll tell you, no matter when you started or who you are, there is always somebody out there that can beat you... older or younger. Newbs CAN win... they just probably won't. Why? Lack of fighting experience. No amount of named modules will enhance YOUR ability as a player.
The whole question of "Can newbs be effective?" is sort of flawed as well. As a newb, the name itself implies that you know nothing to very little about the game you've just started playing. In order to be effective, one must have a bit of knowledge on what will be effective. That's where your group/corp steps in because solo newbs are literally just food. They'll explain to you what you need to do. They'll explain to you what will be effective, and then, Mr. Newb will have some form of an idea of what to do. Thus, reducing his status as a newb and simply turning him in to a young player. If your corp/group does not do any explaining, it's probably in your best interests to leave said corp/group.
So, to sum it up...
You CAN be effective as a newb in a newb ship, but unless you KNOW how to be effective, you WON'T be effective. It's a sort of two-way street.
Corp/Gang <---> Beginning Individual
We can agree to disagree, or we can bicker constantly... either way, I'm right. SobaKai.com There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
Originally posted by ssstupido Originally posted by jimmyman99 The reason i was being very specific because if you cant really equip webifier on a starting ship, for whatever reason, right away or after spending just a few hours, then the whole reasoning that noobs can tackle in PvP is flawed, becuase either they have to spend a lot of hours/days raising their skills high enough to be able to equip it OR theyd have to purchase a better frig, which is not easy for a noob. When my new frig that I bought for 100K or so got destroyed, i went back to start up frig becuase I couldnt afford to re-buy that new frig. Top insurance just costs too much, and lower insurance barely covered the cost of replacing my soiled pants.
Thats the only reason for my specific and technical question - can noobs be trully effecting from the start, without investing DAYS into lerning required skills OR spending money re-buying frigs that can equip webifier.
i still havent met any player that couldnt easily replace any tier 2 frig. if you had difficulties its because you are a very bad player. and yes, the free noob frig can perfectly fit a web or a scrambler if it has the skills.
come on, a tier 2 frig costs only 80k isks, even less if you pay the 20k isks that costs the full premium insurance. that is 10 minutes mining, or half level 1 mission.
CONCLUSION: YES, NEW PLAYERS CAN BE VERY EFFECTIVE AND IMPORTANT ON PVP FIGHTS!
Well, i am not a bad player, i consider myself an average player, I also learn quickly and usualy i am able to "get" into a game in a matter of hours. Your statement assumes I do nothing else but get ISK for the sake of buying a new ship when I get blown up. Im actually planning far ahead, buying skills, weapons, trading, saving up for the "bigger" mining ship with better mining lasers. If anyone earns ISK and spends them all to replace his destroyed frig (which would happen very often as a suicide tackler) then IMO that person is a bad player, becuase Eve is about developing your char, not tackling endlesly with your frig not learning your skills, not getting destroyers or battleships.
Its good to be able to tackle as a lowbie, but people need to be making financial progress in order to advance to better ships, weapons, items... If I spend all my income on suicide attacks, im limiting myself to a tiny portion of what Eve can offer me.
Soba said nicely, a new player CAN be effective right away IF he knows how to. Assuming new players dont know how to do that, most of the time they wont be effective. Thats the flaw (or not, depends how you look at it) in Eve - strong dependance on others, especially at very early and very late stages of your adventures.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 The reason i was being very specific because if you cant really equip webifier on a starting ship, for whatever reason, right away or after spending just a few hours, then the whole reasoning that noobs can tackle in PvP is flawed, becuase either they have to spend a lot of hours/days raising their skills high enough to be able to equip it OR theyd have to purchase a better frig, which is not easy for a noob. When my new frig that I bought for 100K or so got destroyed, i went back to start up frig becuase I couldnt afford to re-buy that new frig. Top insurance just costs too much, and lower insurance barely covered the cost of replacing my soiled pants.
Thats the only reason for my specific and technical question - can noobs be trully effecting from the start, without investing DAYS into lerning required skills OR spending money re-buying frigs that can equip webifier.
If you're tackling in a fleet op then you'd obviously be in a corp or alliance, and since you are doing something that will directly benefit the corp, any decent corp would provide you with as many tackling frigs and fittings as you could ever need. Expecting a noob to spend his hard-earned isk to provide a needed role in fleet ops would be beyond idiotic, considering how little isk frigates cost a corp.
This all goes along with CCP's goal to encourage group play. Many hands make light work. The more people you have doing something the easier, quicker and more profitable it is for EVERYONE involved.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 I dont think i received a direct answer to my question, im still very curious to get an answer, would my starting frig be able to equip web-thingie (assuming i have required skills to equip it)? Becuase I think the CPU or CAP levels of the starting frig will not allow me to equip web. By starting frig i mean the free frig that you get when u just joined the game, NOT the first frig you buy.
Technically it can equip a webbifyer yes. However, it having only one medium power slot means that if you do, you are left with an amazingly slow frigate.
The cpu and power levels on starting frigs allow webs. However, webs are used mostly against small ships, and starter frigs are not very suited to be attacking higher rated small ships with as nearly all of those will make short work of your frigate.
If you want to pvp in an ibis or velator or another starter frig, bring some friends and attack a battleship with about 4-8 of you. That could work if you fit each ship to complement the other and combine into a team that can put a BS out of buisiness.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 The reason i was being very specific because if you cant really equip webifier on a starting ship, for whatever reason, right away or after spending just a few hours, then the whole reasoning that noobs can tackle in PvP is flawed, becuase either they have to spend a lot of hours/days raising their skills high enough to be able to equip it OR theyd have to purchase a better frig, which is not easy for a noob. When my new frig that I bought for 100K or so got destroyed, i went back to start up frig becuase I couldnt afford to re-buy that new frig. Top insurance just costs too much, and lower insurance barely covered the cost of replacing my soiled pants.
Thats the only reason for my specific and technical question - can noobs be trully effecting from the start, without investing DAYS into lerning required skills OR spending money re-buying frigs that can equip webifier.
I'm sorry... when I was BRAND NEW to EVE Retail I was in a CRUISER within a day. I had my Tier2 frigate about halfway through the storyline missions that the tutorial directs you to.
By the end of the tutorial I afforded, bought, fully equipped and insured at Platinum a brand new Osprey cruiser.
I'm sorry, a utter newbie is perfectly capable of getting a Tier 2 frigate within 6 hours of starting the game. So, yes, a Newbie CAN do all the things that have been stated in this thread. Will they have fun? Sure if they don't mind the frustration of dying. But yes, it can be done. And if you're a member of a corp they will very likely buy the ship for you.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by jimmyman99 The reason i was being very specific because if you cant really equip webifier on a starting ship, for whatever reason, right away or after spending just a few hours, then the whole reasoning that noobs can tackle in PvP is flawed, becuase either they have to spend a lot of hours/days raising their skills high enough to be able to equip it OR theyd have to purchase a better frig, which is not easy for a noob. When my new frig that I bought for 100K or so got destroyed, i went back to start up frig becuase I couldnt afford to re-buy that new frig. Top insurance just costs too much, and lower insurance barely covered the cost of replacing my soiled pants.
Thats the only reason for my specific and technical question - can noobs be trully effecting from the start, without investing DAYS into lerning required skills OR spending money re-buying frigs that can equip webifier.
Here are the minimum requirements for a tackling frigate. Let's assume you decide to create a Gallente character.
Tackling Frigate Equipment and Required skills:
1 x Maulus (frigate class) = 200k
Gallente Frigate II (complete upon character creation)
1 x warp scrambler = 25k
Propulsion Jamming I (30 mins)
Electronics III (4 hours)
Navigation II (30 mins)
1 x webifier = 25k
Propulsion Jamming I (30 mins)
Electronics III (4 hours)
Navigation II (30 mins)
Total cost = less than 300k Total training time for a tackling frigate = approx. 5 hours.
Electronic Warfare Support Frigate Equipment and Required skills:
1 x Maulus (frigate class) = 200k
Gallente Frigate II (complete upon character creation)
3 x Sensor Dampener I = 75k
Sensor Linking I (30 mins)
Electronics III (4 hours)
Total cost = less than 300k Total training time for EW support frigate = approx 4 hrs 30 mins. Total training time for EW if tackling skills are trained first = 30 mins.
A good beginning corp to join would be Eve University. They actually train noobs in most of the skills in the game. The only requirement to join is that you have to join before 6 weeks after starting to play the game. They also have their own public channel (Eve University). However Eve Uni is in an alliance so at times they will be in war and won't allow new members until the war is over. Last I saw they had a ton of new players in frigates known as Zergfleet. It started because of the wars they have been in recently.
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by jimmyman99 The reason i was being very specific because if you cant really equip webifier on a starting ship, for whatever reason, right away or after spending just a few hours, then the whole reasoning that noobs can tackle in PvP is flawed, becuase either they have to spend a lot of hours/days raising their skills high enough to be able to equip it OR theyd have to purchase a better frig, which is not easy for a noob. When my new frig that I bought for 100K or so got destroyed, i went back to start up frig becuase I couldnt afford to re-buy that new frig. Top insurance just costs too much, and lower insurance barely covered the cost of replacing my soiled pants.
Thats the only reason for my specific and technical question - can noobs be trully effecting from the start, without investing DAYS into lerning required skills OR spending money re-buying frigs that can equip webifier.
I'm sorry... when I was BRAND NEW to EVE Retail I was in a CRUISER within a day. I had my Tier2 frigate about halfway through the storyline missions that the tutorial directs you to.
By the end of the tutorial I afforded, bought, fully equipped and insured at Platinum a brand new Osprey cruiser.
I'm sorry, a utter newbie is perfectly capable of getting a Tier 2 frigate within 6 hours of starting the game. So, yes, a Newbie CAN do all the things that have been stated in this thread. Will they have fun? Sure if they don't mind the frustration of dying. But yes, it can be done. And if you're a member of a corp they will very likely buy the ship for you.
But what if that osprey was destroyed 5 times in a day becuase u went into tackle mode? The point im trying to illustrate is not whether a new player can be rich or fly destroyer in a day, but rather how effective he is in PvP from day 1. And by effective i dont mean a player whos buddies gave him several mils of ISK, or provided ships for free. More like a regular noob, a noob who has no buddies and maybe joined a small corp that is so spread out he might not see his corp-mate for several days, who doesnt know how to PvP, who doesnt know if webifier will stop a ship or just slows it down, who doesnt know about optimal distance, who likes to try a lot of things and not just stick with PvP (which means he spends money on everything, from mining equipment, to skills half of which are useless at this stage)...
It is easy for a vet to say noobs can be effective, but the problem is, noobs are noobs and Eve is so complicated, that it takes days or months to understand some aspects of this game. I dont remember when I bought my first osprey (been a while), but if I had a clear goal in front of me, im sure i could do it because now I know how to do it. I dont like asking for directions, I like to do everything myself, so often I spend a whole day doing nothing but exploring something that is mundane for a regular Eve player.
It is true what you all are saying, noobs CAN be effective from day 1... but not your regular noob.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by jimmyman99
But what if that osprey was destroyed 5 times in a day becuase u went into tackle mode? The point im trying to illustrate is not whether a new player can be rich or fly destroyer in a day, but rather how effective he is in PvP from day 1. And by effective i dont mean a player whos buddies gave him several mils of ISK, or provided ships for free. More like a regular noob, a noob who has no buddies and maybe joined a small corp that is so spread out he might not see his corp-mate for several days, who doesnt know how to PvP, who doesnt know if webifier will stop a ship or just slows it down, who doesnt know about optimal distance, who likes to try a lot of things and not just stick with PvP (which means he spends money on everything, from mining equipment, to skills half of which are useless at this stage)...
It is easy for a vet to say noobs can be effective, but the problem is, noobs are noobs and Eve is so complicated, that it takes days or months to understand some aspects of this game. I dont remember when I bought my first osprey (been a while), but if I had a clear goal in front of me, im sure i could do it because now I know how to do it. I dont like asking for directions, I like to do everything myself, so often I spend a whole day doing nothing but exploring something that is mundane for a regular Eve player.
It is true what you all are saying, noobs CAN be effective from day 1... but not your regular noob.
Check the post before this one for a corp that specializes in new players. You might not have seen it since it got buried at the bottom of the last page.
...but rather how effective he is in PvP from day 1. And by effective i dont mean a player whos buddies gave him several mils of ISK, or provided ships for free. More like a regular noob, a noob who has no buddies and maybe joined a small corp that is so spread out he might not see his corp-mate for several days, who doesnt know how to PvP, who doesnt know if webifier will stop a ship or just slows it down, who doesnt know about optimal distance, who likes to try a lot of things and not just stick with PvP (which means he spends money on everything, from mining equipment, to skills half of which are useless at this stage)...
It is easy for a vet to say noobs can be effective, but the problem is, noobs are noobs and Eve is so complicated, that it takes days or months to understand some aspects of this game. I dont remember when I bought my first osprey (been a while), but if I had a clear goal in front of me, im sure i could do it because now I know how to do it. I dont like asking for directions, I like to do everything myself, so often I spend a whole day doing nothing but exploring something that is mundane for a regular Eve player.
It is true what you all are saying, noobs CAN be effective from day 1... but not your regular noob.
Any noob without some support or guidance simply will not be pvping on their first day...more than likely they wouldn't even know where to find it. Put that same noob in a gang with an hour of instruction and the noob becomes a valuable asset. Understanding of the game mechanics is not necessary for a noob to become an effective tackler.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by jimmyman99 The reason i was being very specific because if you cant really equip webifier on a starting ship, for whatever reason, right away or after spending just a few hours, then the whole reasoning that noobs can tackle in PvP is flawed, becuase either they have to spend a lot of hours/days raising their skills high enough to be able to equip it OR theyd have to purchase a better frig, which is not easy for a noob. When my new frig that I bought for 100K or so got destroyed, i went back to start up frig becuase I couldnt afford to re-buy that new frig. Top insurance just costs too much, and lower insurance barely covered the cost of replacing my soiled pants.
Thats the only reason for my specific and technical question - can noobs be trully effecting from the start, without investing DAYS into lerning required skills OR spending money re-buying frigs that can equip webifier.
I'm sorry... when I was BRAND NEW to EVE Retail I was in a CRUISER within a day. I had my Tier2 frigate about halfway through the storyline missions that the tutorial directs you to.
By the end of the tutorial I afforded, bought, fully equipped and insured at Platinum a brand new Osprey cruiser.
I'm sorry, a utter newbie is perfectly capable of getting a Tier 2 frigate within 6 hours of starting the game. So, yes, a Newbie CAN do all the things that have been stated in this thread. Will they have fun? Sure if they don't mind the frustration of dying. But yes, it can be done. And if you're a member of a corp they will very likely buy the ship for you.
But what if that osprey was destroyed 5 times in a day becuase u went into tackle mode? The point im trying to illustrate is not whether a new player can be rich or fly destroyer in a day, but rather how effective he is in PvP from day 1. And by effective i dont mean a player whos buddies gave him several mils of ISK, or provided ships for free. More like a regular noob, a noob who has no buddies and maybe joined a small corp that is so spread out he might not see his corp-mate for several days, who doesnt know how to PvP, who doesnt know if webifier will stop a ship or just slows it down, who doesnt know about optimal distance, who likes to try a lot of things and not just stick with PvP (which means he spends money on everything, from mining equipment, to skills half of which are useless at this stage)...
It is easy for a vet to say noobs can be effective, but the problem is, noobs are noobs and Eve is so complicated, that it takes days or months to understand some aspects of this game. I dont remember when I bought my first osprey (been a while), but if I had a clear goal in front of me, im sure i could do it because now I know how to do it. I dont like asking for directions, I like to do everything myself, so often I spend a whole day doing nothing but exploring something that is mundane for a regular Eve player.
It is true what you all are saying, noobs CAN be effective from day 1... but not your regular noob.
A regular newbie like that would never need to go into tackle mode, because tackling is useless without the firepower to back it up. If you're corp is so spread out and online so seldom that you never see them then find another corp. Every player goes through a bunch of corps when they start out until they find one that fits their playstyle, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and the majority of players will understand that completely.
The golden rule in EVE is never fly what you can't afford to lose. If you don't have the infrastrucure and support to fly and lose 5 cruisers in a day, then don't fly them, fly something smaller.
Anyone who is new to PVP will die often when starting out, even vets with 30 mill sp. Until you learn the strengths and weaknesses of your ship in the role that it is being used it is expected that you will lose...a lot, but it's the best way to learn.
Originally posted by Cerrian Originally posted by jimmyman99 The reason i was being very specific because if you cant really equip webifier on a starting ship, for whatever reason, right away or after spending just a few hours, then the whole reasoning that noobs can tackle in PvP is flawed, becuase either they have to spend a lot of hours/days raising their skills high enough to be able to equip it OR theyd have to purchase a better frig, which is not easy for a noob. When my new frig that I bought for 100K or so got destroyed, i went back to start up frig becuase I couldnt afford to re-buy that new frig. Top insurance just costs too much, and lower insurance barely covered the cost of replacing my soiled pants.
Thats the only reason for my specific and technical question - can noobs be trully effecting from the start, without investing DAYS into lerning required skills OR spending money re-buying frigs that can equip webifier.
Here are the minimum requirements for a tackling frigate. Let's assume you decide to create a Gallente character.
Tackling Frigate Equipment and Required skills:
1 x Maulus (frigate class) = 200k
Gallente Frigate II (complete upon character creation)
1 x warp scrambler = 25k
Propulsion Jamming I (30 mins) Electronics III (4 hours) Navigation II (30 mins)
1 x webifier = 25k
Propulsion Jamming I (30 mins) Electronics III (4 hours) Navigation II (30 mins)
Total cost = less than 300k Total training time for a tackling frigate = approx. 5 hours.
Electronic Warfare Support Frigate Equipment and Required skills:
1 x Maulus (frigate class) = 200k
Gallente Frigate II (complete upon character creation)
3 x Sensor Dampener I = 75k
Sensor Linking I (30 mins) Electronics III (4 hours)
Total cost = less than 300k Total training time for EW support frigate = approx 4 hrs 30 mins. Total training time for EW if tackling skills are trained first = 30 mins.
you did not add in the cost of buying the skill books ...prob add another 100k or so not real sure as its been a long time for me but 100k should cover it
Originally posted by jimmyman99 Great review, albeit a bit incorrect
. You CANT be a new player and be effective. Period. Your starting frigate is worthless, and your lack of skills do not allow u to use good weapons and tools. Sure you can fight and PvP, you will respawn with free noob frigate each time u die but seriously, how competetive your frigate is against a battlecruiser? Another fact is that most new players still do not know a lot of tactical and strategical sides of combat, furthermore, PvP is usualy group based, so soloists are at great disadvantage here. Its not impossible to make a good start for new solo-players, but it is greately disadvatageous towards them. And since there is no way to speed up skill learning process ( I dont mean by raising learning skills but rather using your own personal skills or by how much time u invest), which means that it doesnt matter how often and how much u play, whether 1 hour a week or 60 - you cant get battlecruiser sooner then X amount of real life days.
These are some of the disadvantages from the new player standpoint.
u rly sure ??? look and talk valtor=== nooob ship and free
Ok let me share my PERSONAL experence as a noob in EVE.
first day I was on while doing the tutorial I broused the market for a ship that I would like to have, I settled for a exetor (sp?) because of the mining bonus. but the 5mill isk was a bit staggering. I mention this in the starting corp channel and a player GIVES me 5 mill, it turns out that the player was the ceo of her own corp, after thanking her profusely, I started to train in the needed skills, which was frig 4 if I remember corectly, I could be wrong but it didnt take long. I joined her corp and had a fun time mining and chatting with the other players, even did a few missions with them, no PvP because thats really not my thing.
But if you pay attention to the starting corp chat channel then SOME players will not have a problem finding others to PvP. You dont need to take on battleships in your first week. How about frig vs. frig ? Talk on the starting corp chat and I'm sure you'll find SOMEONE willing to meet you to show you the ins and outs of PvP.
But what if that osprey was destroyed 5 times in a day becuase u went into tackle mode? The point im trying to illustrate is not whether a new player can be rich or fly destroyer in a day, but rather how effective he is in PvP from day 1. And by effective i dont mean a player whos buddies gave him several mils of ISK, or provided ships for free. More like a regular noob, a noob who has no buddies and maybe joined a small corp that is so spread out he might not see his corp-mate for several days, who doesnt know how to PvP, who doesnt know if webifier will stop a ship or just slows it down, who doesnt know about optimal distance, who likes to try a lot of things and not just stick with PvP (which means he spends money on everything, from mining equipment, to skills half of which are useless at this stage)...
It is easy for a vet to say noobs can be effective, but the problem is, noobs are noobs and Eve is so complicated, that it takes days or months to understand some aspects of this game. I dont remember when I bought my first osprey (been a while), but if I had a clear goal in front of me, im sure i could do it because now I know how to do it. I dont like asking for directions, I like to do everything myself, so often I spend a whole day doing nothing but exploring something that is mundane for a regular Eve player.
Im not entirely sure what youre trying to do.
What you seem to be asking is if someone who knows nothing and has no inclination to learn can effectively PvP with low SP, which is an obvious no. Someone who knows nothing and has no inclination to learn cant effectively PvP with high SP, much less low (for reference, a CVA carrier was destroyed recently without any resistance because the pilot was clueless. carrier pilots are not low-SP).
If youre smart and you have the ability to learn, then you will rapidly become very effective at PvP. Tech1 frigates are so cheap as to be free, even to noobs (if you can fully fit one out on a half-hour of lvl 1 missioning in a .9 system, its cheap), so theres no real risk involved.
Trying to learn PvP completely solo means youre either incredibly smart or incredibly stupid (statistics suggust the latter). Get a good corp with experienced PvP leadership and you'll be fine. Or dont and you wont. Pretty simple.
Originally posted by Cerrian Here are the minimum requirements for a tackling frigate. Let's assume you decide to create a Gallente character.
Tackling Frigate Equipment and Required skills:
1 x Maulus (frigate class) = 200k
Gallente Frigate II (complete upon character creation)
1 x warp scrambler = 25k
Propulsion Jamming I (30 mins)
Electronics III (4 hours)
Navigation II (30 mins)
1 x webifier = 25k
Propulsion Jamming I (30 mins)
Electronics III (4 hours)
Navigation II (30 mins) Total cost = less than 300k Total training time for a tackling frigate = approx. 5 hours.
Electronic Warfare Support Frigate Equipment and Required skills:
1 x Maulus (frigate class) = 200k
Gallente Frigate II (complete upon character creation)
3 x Sensor Dampener I = 75k
Sensor Linking I (30 mins)
Electronics III (4 hours)
Total cost = less than 300k Total training time for EW support frigate = approx 4 hrs 30 mins. Total training time for EW if tackling skills are trained first = 30 mins.
Tackling frigates need speed. Afterburners are the minimum, and microwarp drives should be considered mandatory for combat effectiveness. Warp scramblers and webbers are very limited in range (if they went farther, I'd imagine that PvP might be slightly less consentual then it is now, which would be tragic), so you need some legs to get into range. Not accounting for those training requirements is dishonest.
Take 1 basic t1 frigate like a condor or something
Stick 2 small NOS on a frigate, 1 warp scrambler, 1 webber, 1 afterburner, armor repper in the low, nanofiber
Boom. With half a day training you have a PVPmobile that is useful in gangs.
So don't tell me you have to mine for 2 months to buy a ship that you lose in 10 seconds. Lots of people have done that, and lots of people are stupid.
Stupid people don't belong in Eve, neither do carebears.
If you are smart and PVP centric and group oriented you will love Eve.
Originally posted by RollinDutch Originally posted by Cerrian Here are the minimum requirements for a tackling frigate. Let's assume you decide to create a Gallente character.
Tackling Frigate Equipment and Required skills:
1 x Maulus (frigate class) = 200k
Gallente Frigate II (complete upon character creation)
1 x warp scrambler = 25k
Propulsion Jamming I (30 mins)
Electronics III (4 hours)
Navigation II (30 mins)
1 x webifier = 25k
Propulsion Jamming I (30 mins)
Electronics III (4 hours)
Navigation II (30 mins) Total cost = less than 300k Total training time for a tackling frigate = approx. 5 hours.
Electronic Warfare Support Frigate Equipment and Required skills:
1 x Maulus (frigate class) = 200k
Gallente Frigate II (complete upon character creation)
3 x Sensor Dampener I = 75k
Sensor Linking I (30 mins)
Electronics III (4 hours)
Total cost = less than 300k Total training time for EW support frigate = approx 4 hrs 30 mins. Total training time for EW if tackling skills are trained first = 30 mins.
Tackling frigates need speed. Afterburners are the minimum, and microwarp drives should be considered mandatory for combat effectiveness. Warp scramblers and webbers are very limited in range (if they went farther, I'd imagine that PvP might be slightly less consentual then it is now, which would be tragic), so you need some legs to get into range. Not accounting for those training requirements is dishonest. Where I agree that speed is necessary... if you're not flying an interceptor, a MWD is probably a bad idea as it inceases your signature radius and makes you easier to hit. Afterburners generally do the job though on a friggate. Any ship class higher and you may as well just equip the MWD... of course, any ship class higher and you should be able to withstand the damage given for a certain amount of time.
We can agree to disagree, or we can bicker constantly... either way, I'm right. SobaKai.com There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
Comments
Things like afterburners and MWDs, and shield extenders and armor "expanders" come in "ship class" levels because of the boost amounts and strength they have. IE: 1MN = frigate size.... 10MN = cruiser size... 100MN = battleship size
Things like webbifiers and scrammers are universal modules. That means that any ship from frigate to battleship can equip them at the same cost of resources. Now, percentage wise, it will cost a frigate more resources, but they can still equip them and run them. Frigates generally have fewer slots anyways, and, in most fleet engagements, they aren't really used for damage. They're used for tackeling.
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
I have noticed that all you offer is a pvp..fleet action type of response to the OP ..I do not pvp dont like it never will I do like the production/mission running side though ...when I fire up all 4 of my accounts I can harvest/mine to beat the band ...there many corps that will share there mining ops wealth equally between the peeps who participate is said ops ..an excellent way to make cash & train skills..for more exciting endeavors..
also its kinda fun to have a impact on a systems economy & no you dont need muti accounts to do it ....I play many other games and when they loose there luster I alway come back to eve ...
the statement about eve devs listining is a bit off they listen to those that share there vision of eve ONLY ..other wise there would be hundreds on new missions by now and there are not ...the eve devs want o0 space confilect ..every thing they do seems to be aimed to push players into 0o space .
EvE is a fun game to a point ( at least for me) the thing I like best is the skill training I can go away for weeks at a time & come back for a min and pop a new skill in the oven and go play something else ..or I can indy mine on one box and play something else on another ...
EvE is also a great work place game you can indy mine & do your computer based job at the same time ..run afew missions when nobody is looking ..lol
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
The starting frig is literally just a shell around your pod that allows you to carry a few things and fly a bit faster. Unless it is for pure enjoyment and humor, nobody with any brains would enter a fleet engagement or do any kind of actual fighting in a newb ship.
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
Thats the only reason for my specific and technical question - can noobs be trully effecting from the start, without investing DAYS into lerning required skills OR spending money re-buying frigs that can equip webifier.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
i still havent met any player that couldnt easily replace any tier 2 frig. if you had difficulties its because you are a very bad player. and yes, the free noob frig can perfectly fit a web or a scrambler if it has the skills.
come on, a tier 2 frig costs only 80k isks, even less if you pay the 20k isks that costs the full premium insurance. that is 10 minutes mining, or half level 1 mission.
CONCLUSION: YES, NEW PLAYERS CAN BE VERY EFFECTIVE AND IMPORTANT ON PVP FIGHTS!
The whole question of "Can newbs be effective?" is sort of flawed as well. As a newb, the name itself implies that you know nothing to very little about the game you've just started playing. In order to be effective, one must have a bit of knowledge on what will be effective. That's where your group/corp steps in because solo newbs are literally just food. They'll explain to you what you need to do. They'll explain to you what will be effective, and then, Mr. Newb will have some form of an idea of what to do. Thus, reducing his status as a newb and simply turning him in to a young player. If your corp/group does not do any explaining, it's probably in your best interests to leave said corp/group.
So, to sum it up...
You CAN be effective as a newb in a newb ship, but unless you KNOW how to be effective, you WON'T be effective. It's a sort of two-way street.
Corp/Gang <---> Beginning Individual
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
i still havent met any player that couldnt easily replace any tier 2 frig. if you had difficulties its because you are a very bad player. and yes, the free noob frig can perfectly fit a web or a scrambler if it has the skills.
come on, a tier 2 frig costs only 80k isks, even less if you pay the 20k isks that costs the full premium insurance. that is 10 minutes mining, or half level 1 mission.
CONCLUSION: YES, NEW PLAYERS CAN BE VERY EFFECTIVE AND IMPORTANT ON PVP FIGHTS!
Well, i am not a bad player, i consider myself an average player, I also learn quickly and usualy i am able to "get" into a game in a matter of hours. Your statement assumes I do nothing else but get ISK for the sake of buying a new ship when I get blown up. Im actually planning far ahead, buying skills, weapons, trading, saving up for the "bigger" mining ship with better mining lasers. If anyone earns ISK and spends them all to replace his destroyed frig (which would happen very often as a suicide tackler) then IMO that person is a bad player, becuase Eve is about developing your char, not tackling endlesly with your frig not learning your skills, not getting destroyers or battleships.
Its good to be able to tackle as a lowbie, but people need to be making financial progress in order to advance to better ships, weapons, items... If I spend all my income on suicide attacks, im limiting myself to a tiny portion of what Eve can offer me.
Soba said nicely, a new player CAN be effective right away IF he knows how to. Assuming new players dont know how to do that, most of the time they wont be effective. Thats the flaw (or not, depends how you look at it) in Eve - strong dependance on others, especially at very early and very late stages of your adventures.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
This all goes along with CCP's goal to encourage group play. Many hands make light work. The more people you have doing something the easier, quicker and more profitable it is for EVERYONE involved.
Technically it can equip a webbifyer yes. However, it having only one medium power slot means that if you do, you are left with an amazingly slow frigate.
The cpu and power levels on starting frigs allow webs. However, webs are used mostly against small ships, and starter frigs are not very suited to be attacking higher rated small ships with as nearly all of those will make short work of your frigate.
If you want to pvp in an ibis or velator or another starter frig, bring some friends and attack a battleship with about 4-8 of you. That could work if you fit each ship to complement the other and combine into a team that can put a BS out of buisiness.
By the end of the tutorial I afforded, bought, fully equipped and insured at Platinum a brand new Osprey cruiser.
I'm sorry, a utter newbie is perfectly capable of getting a Tier 2 frigate within 6 hours of starting the game. So, yes, a Newbie CAN do all the things that have been stated in this thread. Will they have fun? Sure if they don't mind the frustration of dying. But yes, it can be done. And if you're a member of a corp they will very likely buy the ship for you.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Tackling Frigate Equipment and Required skills:
1 x Maulus (frigate class) = 200k
Electronics III (4 hours)
Navigation II (30 mins)
Electronics III (4 hours)
Navigation II (30 mins)
Total cost = less than 300k
Total training time for a tackling frigate = approx. 5 hours.
Electronic Warfare Support Frigate Equipment and Required skills:
1 x Maulus (frigate class) = 200k
Electronics III (4 hours)
Total training time for EW support frigate = approx 4 hrs 30 mins.
Total training time for EW if tackling skills are trained first = 30 mins.
A good beginning corp to join would be Eve University. They actually train noobs in most of the skills in the game. The only requirement to join is that you have to join before 6 weeks after starting to play the game. They also have their own public channel (Eve University). However Eve Uni is in an alliance so at times they will be in war and won't allow new members until the war is over. Last I saw they had a ton of new players in frigates known as Zergfleet. It started because of the wars they have been in recently.
By the end of the tutorial I afforded, bought, fully equipped and insured at Platinum a brand new Osprey cruiser.
I'm sorry, a utter newbie is perfectly capable of getting a Tier 2 frigate within 6 hours of starting the game. So, yes, a Newbie CAN do all the things that have been stated in this thread. Will they have fun? Sure if they don't mind the frustration of dying. But yes, it can be done. And if you're a member of a corp they will very likely buy the ship for you.
But what if that osprey was destroyed 5 times in a day becuase u went into tackle mode? The point im trying to illustrate is not whether a new player can be rich or fly destroyer in a day, but rather how effective he is in PvP from day 1. And by effective i dont mean a player whos buddies gave him several mils of ISK, or provided ships for free. More like a regular noob, a noob who has no buddies and maybe joined a small corp that is so spread out he might not see his corp-mate for several days, who doesnt know how to PvP, who doesnt know if webifier will stop a ship or just slows it down, who doesnt know about optimal distance, who likes to try a lot of things and not just stick with PvP (which means he spends money on everything, from mining equipment, to skills half of which are useless at this stage)...
It is easy for a vet to say noobs can be effective, but the problem is, noobs are noobs and Eve is so complicated, that it takes days or months to understand some aspects of this game. I dont remember when I bought my first osprey (been a while), but if I had a clear goal in front of me, im sure i could do it because now I know how to do it. I dont like asking for directions, I like to do everything myself, so often I spend a whole day doing nothing but exploring something that is mundane for a regular Eve player.
It is true what you all are saying, noobs CAN be effective from day 1... but not your regular noob.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
But what if that osprey was destroyed 5 times in a day becuase u went into tackle mode? The point im trying to illustrate is not whether a new player can be rich or fly destroyer in a day, but rather how effective he is in PvP from day 1. And by effective i dont mean a player whos buddies gave him several mils of ISK, or provided ships for free. More like a regular noob, a noob who has no buddies and maybe joined a small corp that is so spread out he might not see his corp-mate for several days, who doesnt know how to PvP, who doesnt know if webifier will stop a ship or just slows it down, who doesnt know about optimal distance, who likes to try a lot of things and not just stick with PvP (which means he spends money on everything, from mining equipment, to skills half of which are useless at this stage)...
It is easy for a vet to say noobs can be effective, but the problem is, noobs are noobs and Eve is so complicated, that it takes days or months to understand some aspects of this game. I dont remember when I bought my first osprey (been a while), but if I had a clear goal in front of me, im sure i could do it because now I know how to do it. I dont like asking for directions, I like to do everything myself, so often I spend a whole day doing nothing but exploring something that is mundane for a regular Eve player.
It is true what you all are saying, noobs CAN be effective from day 1... but not your regular noob.
Check the post before this one for a corp that specializes in new players. You might not have seen it since it got buried at the bottom of the last page.
By the end of the tutorial I afforded, bought, fully equipped and insured at Platinum a brand new Osprey cruiser.
I'm sorry, a utter newbie is perfectly capable of getting a Tier 2 frigate within 6 hours of starting the game. So, yes, a Newbie CAN do all the things that have been stated in this thread. Will they have fun? Sure if they don't mind the frustration of dying. But yes, it can be done. And if you're a member of a corp they will very likely buy the ship for you.
But what if that osprey was destroyed 5 times in a day becuase u went into tackle mode? The point im trying to illustrate is not whether a new player can be rich or fly destroyer in a day, but rather how effective he is in PvP from day 1. And by effective i dont mean a player whos buddies gave him several mils of ISK, or provided ships for free. More like a regular noob, a noob who has no buddies and maybe joined a small corp that is so spread out he might not see his corp-mate for several days, who doesnt know how to PvP, who doesnt know if webifier will stop a ship or just slows it down, who doesnt know about optimal distance, who likes to try a lot of things and not just stick with PvP (which means he spends money on everything, from mining equipment, to skills half of which are useless at this stage)...
It is easy for a vet to say noobs can be effective, but the problem is, noobs are noobs and Eve is so complicated, that it takes days or months to understand some aspects of this game. I dont remember when I bought my first osprey (been a while), but if I had a clear goal in front of me, im sure i could do it because now I know how to do it. I dont like asking for directions, I like to do everything myself, so often I spend a whole day doing nothing but exploring something that is mundane for a regular Eve player.
It is true what you all are saying, noobs CAN be effective from day 1... but not your regular noob.
A regular newbie like that would never need to go into tackle mode, because tackling is useless without the firepower to back it up. If you're corp is so spread out and online so seldom that you never see them then find another corp. Every player goes through a bunch of corps when they start out until they find one that fits their playstyle, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and the majority of players will understand that completely.
The golden rule in EVE is never fly what you can't afford to lose. If you don't have the infrastrucure and support to fly and lose 5 cruisers in a day, then don't fly them, fly something smaller.
Anyone who is new to PVP will die often when starting out, even vets with 30 mill sp. Until you learn the strengths and weaknesses of your ship in the role that it is being used it is expected that you will lose...a lot, but it's the best way to learn.
Tackling Frigate Equipment and Required skills:
1 x Maulus (frigate class) = 200k
Electronics III (4 hours)
Navigation II (30 mins)
Electronics III (4 hours)
Navigation II (30 mins)
Total cost = less than 300k
Total training time for a tackling frigate = approx. 5 hours.
Electronic Warfare Support Frigate Equipment and Required skills:
1 x Maulus (frigate class) = 200k
Electronics III (4 hours)
Total training time for EW support frigate = approx 4 hrs 30 mins.
Total training time for EW if tackling skills are trained first = 30 mins.
you did not add in the cost of buying the skill books ...prob add another 100k or so not real sure as its been a long time for me but 100k should cover it
valtor=== nooob ship and free
BestSigEver :P
Ok let me share my PERSONAL experence as a noob in EVE.
first day I was on while doing the tutorial I broused the market for a ship that I would like to have, I settled for a exetor (sp?) because of the mining bonus. but the 5mill isk was a bit staggering. I mention this in the starting corp channel and a player GIVES me 5 mill, it turns out that the player was the ceo of her own corp, after thanking her profusely, I started to train in the needed skills, which was frig 4 if I remember corectly, I could be wrong but it didnt take long. I joined her corp and had a fun time mining and chatting with the other players, even did a few missions with them, no PvP because thats really not my thing.
But if you pay attention to the starting corp chat channel then SOME players will not have a problem finding others to PvP. You dont need to take on battleships in your first week. How about frig vs. frig ? Talk on the starting corp chat and I'm sure you'll find SOMEONE willing to meet you to show you the ins and outs of PvP.
What you seem to be asking is if someone who knows nothing and has no inclination to learn can effectively PvP with low SP, which is an obvious no. Someone who knows nothing and has no inclination to learn cant effectively PvP with high SP, much less low (for reference, a CVA carrier was destroyed recently without any resistance because the pilot was clueless. carrier pilots are not low-SP).
If youre smart and you have the ability to learn, then you will rapidly become very effective at PvP. Tech1 frigates are so cheap as to be free, even to noobs (if you can fully fit one out on a half-hour of lvl 1 missioning in a .9 system, its cheap), so theres no real risk involved.
Trying to learn PvP completely solo means youre either incredibly smart or incredibly stupid (statistics suggust the latter). Get a good corp with experienced PvP leadership and you'll be fine. Or dont and you wont. Pretty simple.
Stick 2 small NOS on a frigate, 1 warp scrambler, 1 webber, 1 afterburner, armor repper in the low, nanofiber
Boom. With half a day training you have a PVPmobile that is useful in gangs.
So don't tell me you have to mine for 2 months to buy a ship that you lose in 10 seconds. Lots of people have done that, and lots of people are stupid.
Stupid people don't belong in Eve, neither do carebears.
If you are smart and PVP centric and group oriented you will love Eve.
Otherwise you will hate it.
Where I agree that speed is necessary... if you're not flying an interceptor, a MWD is probably a bad idea as it inceases your signature radius and makes you easier to hit. Afterburners generally do the job though on a friggate. Any ship class higher and you may as well just equip the MWD... of course, any ship class higher and you should be able to withstand the damage given for a certain amount of time.
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.