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I think i understand why those that dont like the game dont like it...
Enigma
Member UncommonPosts: 11,384
The two biggest complaints (from what Ive seen) are these:
1. No money
2. No economy
3. No rare items cool equipment to earn
Here's my opinion:
1. There is money its called influence....I dont know how I can go into more detail than that
2. There's no player economy and to me thats a great thing. I was tired of running arounf L2 to see scammers. I was tired seeing chinese bots run everywhere to make real money on ebay with their "gold". I was tired in SWG where I went to look at some FWG5 (or whatever they were called lol I stopped playing it back in Jan.) and seeing the gun sell for 450,000 because the merchants were catering to dupers.
3. When was the last time you saw Spider-Man or Wolverine or Captain America sporting a new lvl 32 Magical Helm of Transcendmeditation?
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Comments
Lots of super heros thrived on gadgets. Batman of the silver age... all he was was gadgets. Green Arrow... sorry for the DC references. Now... the items they used weren't dropped off mobs. They were crafted. A future expansion that allowed for gadget oriented characters might be worth looking at. With supervillians, there was always the mad scientist... either as a villian himself or as a lacky. I could see them adding crafting-of-a-sort to this game quite easily.
-Sig-
Don't try to teach a pig to sing,
It rarely works and only serves to annoy the pig.
-Sig-
Don't try to teach a pig to sing,
It rarely works and only serves to annoy the pig.
Gadgets are pretty much covered under the Devices skillset of the blaster, though I suppose if you wanted to do a tribute to Batman it would have to be a scrapper, so devices wouldn't be available but then again, Batman didn't generally use his gadgets for fighting the badguys, he used martial Arts in combat and evaded most attacks so he'd fall into CoH as a Scrapper, Martial/Super Reflexes.
Not that I actually spent time trying to copy Batman...ok, maybe 10 minutes.
When all else fails, Poke 'em in the eye with a good sharp stick.
When all else fails, Poke 'em in the eye with a good sharp stick.
i think all the things that people hate make it better
it's like an on-line console game
When all else fails, Poke 'em in the eye with a good sharp stick.
When all else fails, Poke 'em in the eye with a good sharp stick.
PVP is coming out in the expansion "Villains" which will be out soon.
I m yself will be a "villain"
I just hope my character can be transferred over
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I am really not sure what to say about this game after having tried it. I guess I was getting bored with L2, which has some great aspects but so many problems as well, so I decided to buy into the hype and get CoH to give it a try.
My Overall opinion of the game is that it is extremely beautiful, boring, and kinda pointless. Even more then L2 for those aspects if you can imagine that.
Goods ~
- Simply the best character physical customization of any mmorpg I have tried. No other mmorpg can even compare with CoH in this aspect. Then again it is a super hero game which allows the devs to have a pretty free hand in character design that wouldn't make sense in other types of mmorpgs. You can quite easily have a completely unique look.
- Smooth seemingly bug free code. The game runs flawlessly and doesn't even seem to lag in large crowds.
- Fairly large selection of powers that are implented in a great comic book fashion. For example watching a person use their mind to life a refrigerator and fling it at their foes is just fun to watch.
- Great special effects overall. In this aspect the game went beyond what I had imagined even from reading reviews.
- Great user interface with excellent chat features, maps, etc..
Bads ~
- Some incredibly odd limits on what powers and combinations of powers are available in character design. Example: A scrapper (an offensive melee character) has the incredibly lame and limited choices of sword, katana, martial arts, dark melee, and claws. Why arent some of the most basic comic book powers like super strength (which tanks can get for their offensive power) not available to the scrapper? This type of odd limitation which would not even slightly change the scrappers role or ability and is frustrating and rampant in the character design process.
- No destructible environments. This is a difficult thing, how could they reasonably add this without having the city in total ruins all the time? While I concede the difficulty it extremely limits a game with superheros. I mean what fun is a person with super strength who cant lift a car to throw at an opponent, or rip a light post out of the ground to use as a bat? People can and do get hit by cars and trucks all the time and the vehicles just pass right through them or push them out of the way with no effect.
- The most unbelievable mmorpg world I have seen yet. Your playing in a city with more super heros then citizens
and yet every other person is a petty thug stealing a purse in broad daylight 50 feet from town hall where ms liberty is standing watch. Why oh why would you steal a purse on a street corner in broad daylight when there are 500+ super heros standing 20 feet away and you have your trusty hammer or pistol to take them all on...
- The social aspect of the game can be very difficult at least from my point of view. The game has a great chat feature set but the combat is so horribly implemented you spend most of your time with your character just standing there waiting for her power buttons to refresh. Its difficult to chat with your group during this as you may miss your chance (and the pure adrenaline pumping excitement) to click your power button again.
- That last one ties into the combat overall. I think much of it was fairly well done but the complete lack of an auto attack feature (please do correct me if I am wrong and missed how to turn this on in game) and your character just standing there waiting on the power button to refresh makes for some annoying and often boring combat.
- Not much reason to explore or see more of the world from what I have experienced so far. The city has some slight changes from zone to zone but overall once you have seen a few gray buildings you have seen them all.
- No story line that I have seen so far anyway. The missions seem almost random and largely pointless. They were fun for the first couple and now seem to just be the same thing over and over.
- The lack of any equipment or advancement beyond new aspects to your two main powers, places to explore, and story to unfold leaves me wondering what fun goals to set or what point there is to going on with the constant grind. I thought I was pretty resilient to mmorpgs with a grind since I was surviving L2s, but CoH set a new standard for me in repetitive pointless thug fighting that grinds on and on.
I don't believe in coming to a final opinion on a mmorpg without playing quite a bit and trying to see how it changes as you level a bit (I stuck with L2 into the 30s) so I am not giving up on CoH yet but I have to desperately hope it improves a great deal and soon. After 5 days of playing I have no desire to log on which has only happened to me before with Shadowbane so its going to be a struggle but I plan to give it some more time and hope to see the light.
hmmm some odd "Bads" you list there, Misti. I'm gonna comment on a few.
COmbos of powers, well your example of super strength seems to be kinda misplaced, afterall all of the super strong heroic characters I can think of are more tankers then scrappers, they were damage sponges rather then damage dealers. Over all I thought that the skillset customizations were rather varied, compare to EQ where you chose a class and...well thats about it, you'll have the same skills as every other player of the same class.
Destructable environment, better to not have it. after all if you COULD destroy the environment you would, then 2 minutes later come back and there its back. besides, once you threw the car you'd be annoyed it wasn't there to throw again anyway, hehe.
Unbelievable world, ummm, its a comic book. if there WEREN'T muggers around every corner menacing little old ladies I'd be a bit worried. besides is any MMO diffrent? you leave town in L2 and oh look, 15 feet from the guard is a pack of wild dogs/orcs/bears/spiders/dragons/godlikeubahbeings/red-dots.
Social, Don't know what game you've been playing but every MMO I've ever played the only way I could chat and play at the same time was because the combat itself was mind numbingly boring. heck in CoH I can go fight level 2 hellions and chat at the same time, its boring, but I can do it, in EQ I can hit auto attack then stand there chatting, its boring, but I can do it.
Lack of auto attack, HURRAY! stupidest feature ever to be endlessly dumped into MMO's was the auto attack. Dev1, "Hey, lets make a feature that rewards our players for sitting there doing nothing" Dev2, "Great Idea, Lets call it Auto-Attack and make the players believe its fun while we're at it." Auto-attack, Boredom with the appearance of activity, you're not really DOING anything with it just repeating an animation over and over to no point.
Missions and storyline, Next time READ the mission clues and what the contact tells you. they are actually inline with the storyline. the arcs start at the first few mission in Atlas park, but you actually have to read the text to see them.
Advancement, Haven't played much yet have you? you get up to a total of 6 powersets, your primary, seconday and up to 4 powerpools. the combinations of possible powersets is in the hundred thousands.
When all else fails, Poke 'em in the eye with a good sharp stick.
When all else fails, Poke 'em in the eye with a good sharp stick.
Thanks for the info Gavin.
I still pretty much have to stand with the limits to power combos, many dont really make much sense. There are a number of comic book characters I would consider scrappers that have super strength. Imagine Spider man for one. He is super strong (not super man level but super none the less). Almost all of his hitting power comes from agility, str, and his webs. Hes not what I would consider a tank by any means.
I guess my key point to that would be why limit the characters in such a matter when it has no affect on their role? Scrappers are there to do strong offensive melee damage. Why shouldnt super strength or other offensive melee powers be available to them? This just limits the players ability to make the character they want rather then affecting game play really. This subject isnt all that big a deal though just one thing I didnt like among many parts of the character creation that I did.
The destructible environment would be better to have, but like you and I both said, I dont really know how you would implement it correctly so maybe its best they left it out.
As for unbelievable I would have to say ALL things have to reach at least some level of believable to be entertaining. Yes they are a stretch (super heros in general) but when things get too crazy there is no suspension of disbelief and things get a lot less fun fast. I think they would have been better off having tougher villians and longer fights rather then countless purse snatcher but I am hoping this gets better as you level.
I guess the auto attack and social thing depends on taste. I would prefer play in an environment where I set my character in action and respond as strategy dictates rather then mind numbingly sitting and waiting for my attack button to grow big so I can hit it again. This kind of combat is slow and stale as your concentrating on your power bar more then whats actually happening in the game. Its not horrid but it seems lacking.
Having an auto attack in no way means you do nothing if the powers and skills are done well and important. A lack of auto attack creates an environment where your character is largely doing nothing instead.
I did read the missions completely and perhaps I am not being fair to them. There was a story.
Example: The Hellions were moving into a new area and causing trouble. I was sent to clear them out. The next mission I found out they have some kind of drug they are looking for a new market for. Later I am sent after the circle of thorns to see if they are the ones providing the drug or supplies to the gang. I guess in that aspect they tied together but it seemed fairly thin in general. Maybe they get better at higher level as some have indicated.
I did like the detail within the missions though. Examing crates till you find the item and such is nice change to just kill everyone you meet type missions.
As for advancement I have played a bit (definately not to high level thus the last paragraph of my earlier post
) and already know about the powersets that are available.
I do like the additional power options as you level but it just doesnt seem like enough reason to continue grinding on. I have heard there are additional options to upgrade your costume when you get higher which sounds interesting but without knowing more it cant replace the equipment upgrades and things other mmorpgs offer for my personal tastes.
In the short term the game has a ton of appeal but for me it very quickly wore off doing the same thing over and over again. The game does have some interesting changes from the mmorpg norm that help make it unique and interesting. I really hope it gets more interesting as you level and that I can hang in there long enough to see.
I copied only the points I felt I could reasonably respond to on your "bad" items, at least to give you my two cents:
No Destructible environments: I agree, I would like to see some destructible environments, but how quickly would it inevitably reset before it could be used again? Perhaps they could start making destructible environments in the instanced mission zones and see how that works?
Stealing in broad daylight: This is most likely to give people something to do. During the last few weeks of open beta with everyone flooding in, one of the most common complaints was that there weren't enough villains to fight. So the developers changed that so villains were more common... So you have to take the good with the bad... Good: More villains to fight.... Bad: Less believable (I can live with that)
Auto-Attack: It does exist, although I never use it. I believe you press CTRL and then left-click on the power you want to be automatic in your power bar. You can only have one auto-attack power, and I think it kicks in as soon as you have a villain targeted if you're close enough, so be careful.
Exploration: Another point I agree on overall, and I hope that's rectified in the months to come. HOWEVER, I strongly encourage you to visit Perez Park, Boomtown and Faultline when you can! Very interesting and cool layouts!
No story line: Completely (but respectfully) disagree... It's there, you just have to read it! Some of them are pretty good stories, too. I've been a proponent of mini cut-scenes (a la FFXI) to add a sense of direct involvement and immersion in the story, but I know that would be very hard and time-consuming to code.
Etc: I know that they are planning many things for their first major patch (not the CoV expansion) in the next month or so. They've hinted at many things that they are thinking of adding to give you something to shoot for. Whether it's costume changes or specific costume pieces or something else, I'm not sure, but they are working on new stuff! I hope, though, they stay away from the "phat lewt" type of costume pieces with stats and such.
Thanks for reading my rambling!
if you read the story-line that's implemented in every mission (all small arcs that link together into a big one) you'll see that even the lowlie Helions and Skulls are actually super powered villains. sure, they're not as tough as say the Freakshow and the Rikti, but they're no lowly street thugs as well (Helions mostly use Magic gadgets, while Superdine is the Skulls specialty, which adds a nice Linkup to the Outcasts and the Circle of Thorns as well)
as for the waiting for your buttons to grow and the lack of auto attack. the first one goes better whne you get more powers. at 10 I rarely have to wait, unless I intentionally do so because I want a specific power, besides that you can select your own auto attack. just crtl-click a power and it'll keep auto-executing when you have a mob targetted. untill you crtl-click it again, that is.
To jump on the bandwagon of people disagreeing with Misti, let me say that it seems like your Bads are based on someone who was lvl 6-9 or so. Once you get 4 or so powers you won't be waiting for any powers to recharge.
And the powers that seems restrictive aren't as restrictive as you might think. A super strength scrapper is possible, kind of. If you choose a tanker and stack enhancements onto super strength, but neglect your defense powers...your damage will be close to a scrapper's. Although the melee powers come slower to a tanker, you can still make an "offensive tanker". And as for super strength picking things up, there is one power in super strength that lets you pull a piece of "ground" up and throw it. But using random objects as weapons is actually something I'd like to see too, maybe if they expand powers in an expansion.
And yea, like someone said...the world was made like that because of trouble in beta. Like you may know, mobs cannot spawn if someone is looking at them or within a certain distance. So you could imagine a city full of heroes who were all attacking villains would soon mean that city would be completely empty of villains. And with everyone looking for more, the city would stay empty. So the mass amounts of spawns were done so people would always have crime to fight, they may even change it back to the old way when there are less lowbies in the starter zone.
I'd agree that there isn't too much to look forward to besides gaining more powers and status, BTW try talking to citizens sometimes. I once beat 2 gang leaders in a mission and talked to a citizen who actually said "I heard Akunai took down 2 Skull and Hellion bosses at the same time! He's great!". Little perks that come with status. Anyway...the story..which I think you said wasn't very good is really the best thing about the high lvl game. I mean it makes you want to continue on...without spoiling it....there are some very "high profile" heroes you get to help and situations that are pretty hectic.
So I think CoH has it's faults but is still one of the best out there depending on taste. I would recommend this game to anyone looking for something new, I played daoc, sb, ffxi, a couple MUDs and a bunch of other betas I can't remember...but overall CoH ranks high. I'd compare it's greatness among ffxi even though they are completely different games, just to show my personal taste in games.
I would also like to add that you are making assessments on a game that isn't even 2 weeks old. If you feel that there is 'nothing there' then what are you basing that assessment on? Are you comparing it to a game such as EQ that has been out for years and had several expansion packs? Is that really a fair comparison?
I think that the problem that many folks have is that they are unable to see the long term potential of a game or just too impatient to wait for it. If that is the case, then you should never buy a just released MMOG. It will never have the same mature feeling that game with more than 5 years of post launch content will have.
Cryptic and NCSoft have impressed me with their ability to deliver. The lack of bugs, the stability of their platform and their amount of release content that does exist can only be good indicators of what is to come. If you find it mildly interesting but just aren't convinced, stop now. Wait 6 months. Wait a year. Pick the game up later and then you can decide if it truly isn't something you will enjoy.
Hi Misty. Nice post, and I trust in your objective views on the game after trying it, which gives me satisfaction that I did not buy CoH. I remember agreeing with you about the main issue concerning Paragon City being filled with 1,000's of super heroes. That alone turned me away from the game. I'm sure it is fun to play, but it has to be interesting, too, and not much about CoH seemed interesting to me. I don't want to say much about it, I haven't played it.
What I really wanted to know is what you are playing now, or what you plan on playing in the near future? I would send you a PM, but I don't think there are any on these boards, so I apologize to everyone for this off-topic post.
I am sticking with Lineage II still. I am having a heck of a time getting levels, but the game is still fun.
I am also logging into SWG more often again. It is still fun to craft and explore.
I sometimes log into DAoC, with the hope of finding a good group and spending a few hours battling and getting experience so I can eventually participate in RvR.
If you plan on logging into any of these mmorpg's, let me know, I think we have a lot in common and it would be fun to adventure together . . .
Lucindriel Dark Elf Mystic (Lineage II)
Tymora Master Chef (SWG)
Lucindriel Briton Friar (DAoC)
btw, as an interesting trick.
/bind ` "powerexec_auto Burst"
would make Burst (Assault rifle Blaster set) an auto-attack, and turn it on when you push the tilde key. which, unlike other games auto attack means you can actually have an effect from the auto attack other then passing time.
When a developer makes a mob they consider how long they want the mob to live in combat, then they add an amount of hitpoints equal to the amount of damage your auto attack does over that time to the mob. Meaning, in the end only the skills you use matter, auto attack is only keeping you even, not killing the mob.
When all else fails, Poke 'em in the eye with a good sharp stick.
When all else fails, Poke 'em in the eye with a good sharp stick.
Hi my name is Soviet Specter on the Guardian Server LvL 11 3/4.
I am not new to MMORPG's even tho i think in the handbook that came with COH it classes itself as something else(looks thru handbook but cant see it now).
I think the game is very pretty and the powers are amazing. The fact you can have a second set of secondary powers is good and other power pools open up later on.
The missions regardless of what people say are repetitive and the only thing i look forward to in the mission is duking it out with the boss as the rest of the mobs are same over and over.
Maybe I am not a huge fan on reading the mission details but its all blah blah blah "Kill everything". in the sewer or wharehouse etc and like 30+ missions later it becomes repetitive to say the least.
I have spoke to one or two people in game and they are very friendly but there seems to be a lack of community that most mmorpg games have. I put that down partly in my experience to the chat window being in the same window as the damage window.
Grouping with team mates can be fun especially when you have like 10+ mobs coming at you from all angles but i can honestly say XP wise it didnt seem more profitable(I know it says in the book you get less xp but it did seem kinda slow).
I knew before I bought this game it had no PvP. I hope the expansion comes out soon cos at the moment I am more or less playing a single player game online and PvP was the most fun I have had in ANY mmorpg.
I think the game is good but it is all down to individual taste and expectations. I personally like the other guy finding myself not bothered about playing the game a week after purchasing it but each person has their own opinion, so who is to say who is right or wrong?
Poor is the man whoose pleasure depends on the permission off another
Get higher level then come back and see if you still agree with what you posted. At level 21 I can go most places. I think only 4 places are off limits to me atm. Each city is unique in its own way.
----------------------------
Omol da'Ox
The Blooded
----------------------------
Omol da'Ox
Thanks Belsameth and Skruff, I must have missed the ctr thing for auto attack when poking through the manual.
Does the auto attack allow you to set brawl (basic punching attack thing) to auto and then you can click powers as they recharge and the punching will continue between actions? That is kinda what I was looking for. Im at work so havent had the chance to test it out.
I understand the idea of having tons of bad guys to fight to make sure everyone has something to do I just think it could have been done in a better way. For instance a random storyline that gets attached to every player where they have a set of personal or group villians that they investigate and get into repeated long battles with in a mission type format rather then thousands of pick pockets and purse snatchers.
I think an idea like that would allow you to have arch nemisis type material and a unique adventure every time you made a new character rather then constant thug smashing. It also would follow along with most comic book themes better imo.
The power combination limits still bug me but like I said its not a huge deal, it just seems like it limits players imaginations pointlessly. Most aspects of character creation are very well done.
Hi Tymora. Thanks for the note! I am sticking with CoH for a little while longer at least to make sure I give it a fair try since It may improve as I level up.
The only other mmorpg I have a current account on is Lineage 2 right now, though I havent been playing much since release. A couple of my friends quit so it hasnt been much fun for me lately. I have never tried SWG, do you find that one fun? Im not usually very big on sci-fi mmorpgs but I am curious anyway.
SWG isnt bad at all. It has a wide variety. I quit after a few months due to lack of content. Best thing about SWG was the community as in building towns, getting to know people thru trade and xping. The new expansion pack coming out in near future might entice me back for a while at least.
As for the other guy saying things will change when i hit 21 yes i may have more powers and see more of the enviroment and tougher mobs but still ill be doing the same thing i have been doing every level. I will give the mobs their dues as in the Trolls when u fight them push this kinda button on there chest(like that char out of batman with poison ivy, bain is it) and they become rock to kill.
Poor is the man whoose pleasure depends on the permission off another
All MMOGs are repetitve to a degree. They all require you to hunt mobs. And once you have played two or three of these games, you begin to see that what differentiates them is only the wrapper they place around it. This is where people pick and choose their favorites.
What truly makes any of these games really click for folks is whether or not you have people to share the experiences with. Chances are, after your first MMOG, the ones you will spend the longest playing are the ones that you have the most social interaction in.
Personally i think CoH is good if you are a casual gamer. I enjoy login on 3 to 4 times per week to play a bit then log off and do my stuff...
If your a powergamer ul burn this game... u will hate it, and quit it... period.
________________________________________________
By powergaming in an rpg games you are forgotting the true
essence of the rpg : Role. Playing. Game.
I have level 14 controller and a 8 blaster atm. I am haveing a good time just got flight which is cool, but i need to work on the stamina for it......... The game needs pvp
It dont have to be open ended pvp, guild warfare or something. I love this game, but the end game does scare me.
I mean EQ you have the planes, Lineage 2 Sieges?
COH?
But im haveing a blast atm
ok im just gone point a few things out I didnt go through and read every single posting read a few but thats it.
1st the backbone of the game is the missions. If your just running around killing things and not running missions your really not playing the game they way it was meant to be played. Your first knee jerk reaction in jumping in to CoH is to run around and kill stuff and thats when you get grinding and the game gets boring. Stop doing that other wise you will quickly quit the game. I have found that if I stay with the missions and run them that I have more fun and its not boring. Some of you are treating this like EQ. Its not eq its CoH, run the missions its the whole backbone of the game.
2nd about PvP which will be added in later, and because of this no one knows how there going to do it. Now I think they will do it justice. No they wont nerf any of the classes for PvP reason being is cause of fact that they really took a hard look at comic books and incorprated them in to the game. The fact is in comic book world every character is prey for another character. How boring would it be to always win a fight. In fact ill go to the point of saying this, I want to lose more then I win as a hero. Why do you ask because the villian always has the upper hand. Its over coming the odds that makes it all worth while. Now I think PvP is going to be more massive SuperHero battles then one on one fights and due to the tactics of the game it means you will have to work with your group. I also think PvP will some how involve Supergroups. Yet I don't really know how PvP will work. NC has done every thing right so far so ill leave it to them.
Look the bottom line is this if your comic book fan you will get it. If your not you wont get it and you will leave the game. Its that simple.