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Why do so many MMO's fail??
skeptical
Member Posts: 357
I was browsing the forums reading news about upcomming games because it seems lately finidng a good MMO is like looking for the holy grail anymore. I don't have any more active MMO subs but a hard drive full of betas that I barely have any motivation to play. I have been playing MMO's for nearly 10 years back to early Everquest. I've played many games since and honestly they are mostly horrible. Not just in content but performance wise as well. Unstable servers, graphics glitches, CTD's most seem to be a complete mess.
So why is this and who is at fault? Well I can't say for sure, but I think it's a combonation of things. Everquest was pretty much the gold standard for awhile. They had roughly 4-500k subs for years which even by todays standards is very respectable for a monthly fee based game. Alot of people tried to compete and some did ok, but nothing seemed to really be able to get and keep the interest of the small but growing MMO crowd. Then came the monster WoW and smashed all records for everything. It cost more than any game to make and soon was making more than any game too. After that the race was really on. Soon you had upstart companies all trying to get in on the now more mainstream MMO market.
Now conventional wisdom would predict all sorts of new and creative games right. Now there was alot more competiton from games with a loyal player base so one would think in order to compete you would need to come out with a game than worked well and had plenty of content right? WRONG, the MMO's that have been shoved out in the last few years have been horrible. Vanguard, SWG, Matrix, Sadowbane, Horizons the list goes on and on. One poorly designed, unstable, unfinished piece of copycat programming trash after the other came and went in a hurry. Years of development and millions of dollars down the drain on each one. For some reason no game design team can seem to make a decent game anymore.
I think most of the problem is these game developers are trying to sell hype and name recognition more than they are trying to make a good game. It seems like the name of the game now is how long can you drag out a project and how much money can you waste before the bean counters force you to release a game. Then when everyone sees what a mess the games are they all quit. The programmers move on to a new project and the customers move on to looking for a new game.
Every game has to be named after some movie, or hyped up because of some individual whos supposed to be an icon of the gaming world, or some kind of wierd marketing angle that has nothing to do with the actual game they are making. I guess in a way it's is our fault as customers because we keep buying these games. MMO's have become just like the old atari or nintendo games. You play them for a month or so then you move on. I have pretty much given up on MMO's and I'm even tempted to look into console game systems again just out of sheer frustration in trying to play such craptastic incomplete games. You would think as common as pc's and high speed internet access are these days the MMO market would be booming but really it isn't especially if you look at the north american numbers. It's pretty much the same people bouncing from one game to another. People like to throw around number when it comes to games like WoW but what you don't hear alot is that the average WoW player doesn't last 6 months and that about 3-400k people cancel every month. Does the MMO market really have a future or was it just one of those niche flash in a pan things that we seem to be dragging out?
Comments
More or less, because developers usually hire like-minded people, with the same preferrences, so they only hear their own opinions mirrored. They start to loose touch with reality and surround themselves with too few people of different views. As a result they see failures in design only when its too late.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
More chicken little.
Alot of them fail as far I can see it is because.... To many are trying to copy wow... Theres only room in the market for one wow, alot of these developers need to look at whats been done and do something new. Even if thats taking old ideas and re-inventing them. No your not going to get 7 mill subscribers, No one is until Blizzard makes a new MMO.
However having said that, You don't need 7 million to make money. I forget what the magic number is but 500k is enough to provide expansions and what not. I think alot of people have gotten the impression that, if a game doesn't have wow numbers it must not be making money which is garbage. WoW gets those numbers because of Blizzard, Nothing more nothing less.
But the fact remains is... why would I go play a game that maybe has better Graphics then wow such as I think Vanguard or EQ2 when they both feel like they are half falling apart. Maybe its just my computer but every time I launch Vanguard I swear it feels like it only works during certain hours lol.
I think a few games have started to get the idea that they need to start doing something new, I'm hoping that AoC is with its almost FPS like feel... at least thats what it sounds like to me.
I need 3 things in an MMO now
1. Innovation - Something NEW and fun, Combat shouldn't be like WOW... more like Oblivion!
2. Graphics - Yes... I like Graphics shut up lol
3. Group oriented Play - I'm not paying for a solo experience.
But this is just me, with those things your not going to pull in WoW numbers remember that, but if with that game they pull in 500k... Thats good enough
So the point of all this... Less WoW, More New! Meh... I hope no one reads this... I wrote to much.... /sleep
When you roll dice, if you try to hard to win, you never do.
These dudes are too focused on what they feel is a succesful formula, rather than what makes a fun game.
mmmm yeeeah, thats greeat, a little to the left would be greeeat, ::sips coffee mug:::
Also I want to correct you, the race was on before WoW was released. DAOC, AC2.. and the slew of failures including shadowbane that finally came out years too late.
As for MMO's being a flash in the pan niche, the only way I see a market for MMO's ever going away is if we lose electricity as a civilization at this point. MMO's are here to stay. EQ was the one, then games like DAOC came out, there was room for it, now WoW. and LOTRO(which is only a minor distraction in comparison the other games). The Truth of the matter, is- thermo dynamics my freind. THe law of entropy.
The Cure?
There wont be one until something fresh comes out. It could be Darkfall, Darkfall could be vaporware, regardless- it will be a game, with perma death, consequences, free will, fun game play that can engage you for hours, without having to kill 20 gazillion orc pawns, no auto attack. Its going to be different. The only reason anyone should make another mmo in their current form is to upgrade the graphics.
mmmm yeeeah, thats greeat, a little to the left would be greeeat, ::sips coffee mug:::
In not so many words, Why do so many MMO's fail??, because they suck.
Because nobody listens what community want..
Just try to take share from "WoW Cake" and try to take 14-year old fan bois pocket money.
cause they copy WoW should tell you something XD or just dont keep there promises
I agree with the OP they do need to implement something new but new dont come without a risk and thus leads to failure aka Vanguard (not a failure as in the game itself but a failure as in it is not stable enough to appeal to the masses,tried something new and just did not quite make it) we do need innovation we need a world that we can live in not just play in and yes i also pay to play in groups not solo if i want to do this i will play Baldurs gate lol. Give me a living breathing world from which every action from every player has it's own unique effect on the world that they live in make me feel like this is more important than hanging out with my wife make me feel i have truly earnt what i have spent hours of enduring hardship to achieve bring back the true meaning of MMORPG. I find the real reason ppl are not happy with new games is that they are not as friendly as WOW and doing a little more than they are used to is just not chicken lol (aka Grinding) I have 2 games i play atm that are truly satisfying me 1 Being LOTRO for it is new and i wish to grow with the game as i can only see it getting better and 2 Perfect World this 1 is free and has some new features which actually come off quite well it looks good plays good and has tonnes of stuff to do but dont hold ya breath on anything innovative and fun for anytime soon as these days it is more for the money then the community.
MMOs fail because of the same reasons many other software projects fail:
1. Incorrect user requirements - in the case of MMOs, players are the users. If you don't understand what players want, it is very difficult to create a successful game.
2. Poor project managemant - unrealistic deadlines, bad internal politics, poor leadership in general.
3. Insufficient staff resources - failure to hire and retain the right people to get the job done.
4. Poor design - the requirements were correct but the developers dropped the ball on the design. That can include user interface, operational performance (response time) or long-term maintainability.
5. Bad marketing - the game was great, but not enough people know about it. Early Eve-online was probably a good example of that. Eve suffered a slow troubled start with less than effective marketing practices.
Finally, software development projects are one of the most fragile engineering endeavors a team can undertake. The statistics as of a few years ago indicated that over 50% of all software development projects experience some level of failure.
You hear alot of people whine about the game they are playing. From my perspective, most of these games we talk about on this board are incredible achievements. EQ1, EQ2, WOW, EVE, Lineage.... The work that went into these games is enormous. The products themselves are very good.
MMO's fail alot today because all of the devs are only in it for the money,they have no fun making the MMO,they also lack alot of imagination and just steal features from sucefull MMOs.Also another fact is that about 85-90% of the MMO market right now is fantasy only... yay elfs...more elfs... and look another elf.If a MMO would be made by "true" devs (people that enjoy making and PLAYING games),and dont do it just for the money.
I don't think it's because they're all copying WoW lol... If you mean by making it more quest based as opposed to strictly grinding, I think that's a good thing. I haven't played a MMO yet that has combat as smooth as WoW either. I would be happy if they copied the fluidity of WoW. Also, most of WoW's concepts, if not all, are copied from other games (EQ).
Why do you think WoW was so successful? It wasn't only because of the names Blizzard and Warcraft. Many people who never touched a Blizzard game, or heard of Blizzard, kept playing WoW. It's because they improved on everything they took from other games. They made everything work smooth, and made certain things easy instead of annoying.
Yeah, these new guys trying to make MMOs are taking concepts/mechanics from other games. The problem is they're not improving them. For the most part, it seems to be worse than the games they took the ideas from. On top of that, many of them make too many claims much too early in their game's development. There are also way too many people trying to make a fast buck off the genre.
I'm pretty sure that will change after this next wave of MMOs. It's pretty obvious by now, if you put out a mediocre game it's pretty much over for you. The net is filled with fanboys and haters. Put out a shitty game, the next game you put out (no matter if it's good or not) will get a bad rep. A whole lot of people will be talking about how your company sucks ass, and how the game will suck ass too. So basically, I think it will all change after this wave. Hopefully...
And EvE is a fine exemple of a succesfull mmo,while other mmos are loosing subs ,eve keeps getting more,one thing that contributes to the continuos growth of a mmo is the fact that the developers of that mmo enjoy making it and actualy play it... thus they bump into the same shitty bugs,exploiters as all other players and can better fix the problem,sure people say OMIGOD, that banana gun is overpowered... but you can try it and see for yourself how overpowered it is before nerfing it.
I have to agree with the above post about the reason why alot of MMO's are failing, these are probably the main reasons but like also stated I think alot of developers are not taking pride in the game they are trying to create and trying to improve or out due another game be creative and try your own thing. I am just hoping that the upcoming MMO's coming out next year will give me something to look forward to because I have been playing the same MMO's and they are becoming very old but since I am hooked to always being able to play something going as they say cold turkey is tough.
I would like to argue that they actually listen too much. People go to the forum of a new game, and ask the same features of it as WoW. Devs listen and implement it because it's being asked for. Et voila, another WoW clone is born. It's very much a case of 'Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.'
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Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny
Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
they release a bad product and never get the "people create interest" effect.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
MMO projects don't fail because they copy WoW ... it's because they try to copy WoW without having the resources to put toward that kind of monumental undertaking. (Or in the case of Vanguard, massive mismanagement of those resources.)
Basically, nonjonron (above) hit the nail on the head. The people making the decisions are primarily interested in the bottom line, and they cut too many corners. If they would wake up and realize that the ONLY way to make money in this genre is to focus 100% on creating a quality gaming experience rather than cranking out something that merely "works," there would be a lot more successes.
-Feyshtey-
I do tend to agree with you that most are just in it for the short term, easy paycheck . Speculators have pretty much found their way into every nook and cranny of business these days.
I agree with most of the post here as to why many MMO's aren't any good. That doesn't mean they are failures though by MMO standards. WoW isn't the standard....in terms of numbers it's an exception. Quite honestly I'm pretty bored of WoW. It's not what I want in a game...any game.
The one huge thing I think that make the majority of MMO's I've played not really any good is the fact that MY connection or immersion to the world is at a fraction of what it should be. What do I mean...well, QUESTING SUXX! Grinding also.
I know questing should be a very good deal in theory, but if every quest I do has absolutely no impact on my memory, why would I ever care about a particular quest beyond getting my reward. I see quest as being a chance to do some really re memorable things. This just isn't the case. It seems that most are completely forgettable which makes the connection to any viable story non existent.
One MMO comes to mind that have at least taken a stab at this sorta thing, Guild Wars (I guess many say it's not an MMO, but call it a CORPG, LOL...break it down and it's the same shit. SEMANTICS!) No matter what you did in that game you still had a goal in a story which was to basically complete it. May not have remembered each quest, but I do remember the overall story which made me actually care about what I was doing. It's that attachment MMO's as a whole lack and I don't think enough people recognize that.
*EDIT* I would also like to add that because of the low cap in Guild Wars it made me kinda care about my character less. But as I said...I did care about the world and the overall story. Really memorable.
I don't even want to talk about GRINDING, AHHHHHHHHHHH!
So, couple an unpolished game with a lack luster vision, jumbled story (wow has one of the worst I've seen, I'm kinda only playing because friends are/ coworkers are and I am intent on raising 5 characters to 70), and crappy pvp...what do you get? For the most part you get hot garbage that really isn't worth the time in the long run. Am I the only one that feels this way?
So many MMO's fail because:
1. Competition. The days of only choosing UO, EQ, and AC are gone. With so much choice you really need to distinguish yourself, which requires money and talent and luck. With so much money needed, you have to be very successful to recoup the cost, which creates a big, big risk.
2. Community maturity. The demands of players on MMO's now are far greater than they were even just a few years ago. Each MMO that succeeds raises the bar for everyone else, which in turn increases cost, complexity, and risk.
3. X-Factor. Nobody knows what particular formula will be a hit, and what will fail. Even strong IP licenses do not guarantee success. A combination of competition, player experience/maturity, and simple dumb luck with timing can make all the difference. For example, Pirates of the Burning Sea will be out in a few months. Will it succeed or fail? If it came out about a year ago at the height of the rebirth of the pirate craze, I think its success would be virtually guaranteed. Now? Who knows. How about if someone came out with a Harry Potter (or similar) MMO a couple of years ago? That would be huge now. But if they start working on one now? Maybe there will be little demand for it in 4 years when it is completed, or maybe someone else will get one out first and beat them to the punch.
I have to disagree. There are people with enough experience and savvy to make this kind of prediction. Unfortunately, they are not the people with the money, and the people with the money tend not to be smart enough to listen to the people who know what they are doing.
In the end, constructing a good MMO is an art, and people who are good at investing are almost never any good at understanding art.
It's similar to the explanation of why Hollywood has churned out so many terrible movies.
They fail because they design the game around time sinks to keep you playing rather than enjoyability. Also MMOs are very expensive to make and due to the leaps and bounds in the quality of the most successful games.
Consumers arent going to be that forgiven if your game is outdated compared to older games, has terrible graphics etc, and most improtantly how stable the game is, noone gets away with releasing vangaurd quality games anymore, the aforementioned game is a testament to that. So many games fail.
Theres plenty of other factors, but to generalise it all, the bar has been risen and the games that fail do so because they don't reach that bar.
500k is insanely successful by the standards of MMORPGs. Only if you look at WoW or Lineage would you think that 500k is "only enough to get by". Hell, *Everquest* barely broke 500k at its peak. 100k is enough, and probably more than enough, to keep a MMORPG running as long as you can keep that figure steady.
Chris Mattern
The magic number that I remember reading was 50k. If a mmo has 50k subscribers it can fund its xpacs, this was according to some SOE exec back in 2002-2003ish. It may be slightly higher now with higher dev costs. Even with all the bad publicity Vanguard has had, if it can hang on to 50kish subs it will survive and possibly be able to rebound.