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What's up with all the hating from G4tv's Xplay
abistar
Member UncommonPosts: 92
I swear all the time I watch the show and they talk about MMORPGs, when it comes to FFXI they do nothing more than bash it and minimize it till nothing more can be said to actually put a possible newcomer to the game watching that biased show. That game has a loyal fanbase and players in the millions, may not have 10 million subscribers like wow, which i'm willing to bet that they are not all playing, but it is a damn good game, for followers of the series and non followers that want to play FFXI please do so, it is very different than others, and really need effort to accomplish something, and you actually feel a big sense of satisfaction. Those two ignorant people hosting that show are nothing more than spreading the fanboyism disease around, you have to be the judge of the games you play!
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Heh, I saw that their most recent show from yesterday I believe made fun of FFXI. Some guy called in saying he was bored of WoW so the hosts directly went to bashing FFXI. The thing that I liked was that Morgan said that WoW "guides you through everything, holding your hand" ... I was like yeah, that sounds like fun >_<.
Oh well, reviews for MMOs are never accurate anyways. Almost immediately after a review is posted it is out of date.
I was looking for a review in the site, and funny how long time ago when they reviewed FFXI for the first time they gave it a 2/5, now I look up the site for a review, and find a more constructive review and not a 1 min one, like the ridiculous ones they air on TV. I can tell that this was actually written by someone who has played the game, and experienced it. What I don't get is that right off the bat they start bashing games without giving them chances, they have to understand that the MMO evolves, does not stay the same over time, something these two idiots are well aware of, but refuse to acknowledge, in the review that I read, also they pin in a video "Final Fantasy Theater" what a laugh I had there, years of wonderful games how they floor through, and I wont spoil it for you, watch till the end, the most crucial part and you will see what I mean by these posts.
http://www.g4tv.com/xplay/reviews/239/Final_Fantasy_XI_Online.html
My best guess is that for a show which reviews all kinds of games, FFXI starts out too slow to receive good reviews - especially from reviewers who have a general dislike for "foreign" appeals.
Because G4 sucks? Seriously, I'm not even saying this as a FFXI fan. They had Jhonen Vasquez on one of their talk shows a while back and couldn't even get his name right.
They bash a lot of MMO's that aren't WoW. I enjoy the network and the shows but I have never seen a show praise WoW so much, it's like Blizzard pays them to not bash any of the faults with that game. Bottom line, Xplay is a bunch of WoW lovers.
Because WoW is the cool nerd on the block. If you don't like the cool nerd, you aren't cool. And Xplay desperately wants to be seen as cool.
Too bad they fail.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
took the words right out of my mouth there, every mmo game they compare it to WOW and now every consolevgame having to do with action/adventure and or rpg they compare it to Mass Effect, I mean they are great games, I own them both, but if they don't resemble these games in anyway they are for sure a downfall in they're eyes.
Because WoW is the cool nerd on the block. If you don't like the cool nerd, you aren't cool. And Xplay desperately wants to be seen as cool.
Too bad they fail.
Seriously... that's why they change their set every 5 shows. It's kind of ridiculous. Xplay pulled the "10 million subscribers" can't be wrong card... and that was their only reason (in that episode) saying why WoW was great.Anyways, I think pretty much everyone who doesn't play FFXI right now, or at least in the past, will have a very negative opinion of it. Look at D_Machine's posts in the other thread on here... he hadn't played in a long time yet still said he knew that this game sucked. People like him are all over the place, and why people have a negative opinion of FFXI.
However, reviewers have tons of games to review. When they see a crappy 3 hour long game they are happy - less work for them in pushing out a review. When they see an MMORPG, something that takes hundreds and hundreds of hours to even see a lot of the content, they are probably pretty mad. Do you guys really think they put the necessary hours in to *really* review an MMORPG? I don't.
Because WoW is the cool nerd on the block. If you don't like the cool nerd, you aren't cool. And Xplay desperately wants to be seen as cool.
Too bad they fail.
Seriously... that's why they change their set every 5 shows. It's kind of ridiculous. Xplay pulled the "10 million subscribers" can't be wrong card... and that was their only reason (in that episode) saying why WoW was great.Anyways, I think pretty much everyone who doesn't play FFXI right now, or at least in the past, will have a very negative opinion of it. Look at D_Machine's posts in the other thread on here... he hadn't played in a long time yet still said he knew that this game sucked. People like him are all over the place, and why people have a negative opinion of FFXI.
However, reviewers have tons of games to review. When they see a crappy 3 hour long game they are happy - less work for them in pushing out a review. When they see an MMORPG, something that takes hundreds and hundreds of hours to even see a lot of the content, they are probably pretty mad. Do you guys really think they put the necessary hours in to *really* review an MMORPG? I don't.
Yeah I agree. to review mmos you need months of analysis and quite frankly people don't want to put the time on it. In general people who have played FFXI till mid levels are really irrelevant, there is many children that are infesting the mmo scene now a days so because they see a nice, structured mmo catered for a mature audience and then try it, they jump and don't like it anymore because 'it's too hard' but really the problem is that it's not simple minded as other mmos in the current market.
I played this game for a little bit, granted I didn't give it much time, I just felt the actual combat was too slow for me. That, and there wasn't a lot of variation in MOB's. I liked the look and feel of the game, and was way stoked to play it at first, it just wasn't for me.
Maybe it gets more intense later on? I know a lot of games that are like this, It's just hard sometimes to get past the boring parts. And now with games like WoW that make MMO's easy enough for a 5 year old, it will get even more difficult to play games with this style, unfortunatly.
Just because someone's on TV saying it, or in a magazine saying it - or in a message forum saying it, for that matter - doesn't make it fact. It's still just opinion.
I watched G4's "FF Spoiler Theater" at the link provided earlier in this thread. Among other things, Morgan Webb describes Final Fantasy games as the "Litmus of The Lame". Are they for real? I wonder how much self-congratulatory back-patting was going on as they brain-stormed those little word-plays. Don't get me wrong... I can respect that maybe they simply don't like the game for whatever reason. But, when they invest the time and money into bashing a long-running and highly acclaimed RPG series (by gamers and others in the industry) *and* its players with such gleeful abandon... it makes me a bit doubtful.
She goes on to say, "Final Fantasy XI.. we'll just say it's a MMO and slowly walk away". Good call, Morgan. Better to be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. Morgan likely knows next to nothing about the game, beyond whatever their minimal criteria is for a MMO review. Based on what I've read here and elsewhere, that criteria seems to be "Is it WoW?". Ignorance is bliss and, I suppose, the folks at G4 feel it also makes for entertaining TV.
FFXI is a very large departure from the "usual stuff" that's being shoveled out - especially post WoW. Rather than reducing it to the usual formulas most every other MMO seems to follow and many players claim they're tired of, SE have created their own vision for how an online Final Fantasy game should be. And, despite WoW's success and all the "me-too" coat-tailing of other MMO clones in its wake, SE have stuck to their guns and not veered from that path. They haven't systematically dumbed it down to appeal more to the WoW crowd, like others have shamelessly done. I will be the first to say FFXI is not for everyone, nor is it a perfect game. But then, nothing is, on either account.
It's cliche', perhaps. But I do see WoW as a MMO on training wheels, with thick, fluffy pillows all around to cushion you in case you fall. It has brightly lit signs scattered around (floating '?' and '!'; pre-set map markers, etc) to guide you on your way so you don't get lost. WoW doesn't seem to require much of an attention span. In fact, Blizzard seems to count on you not having one. So they make sure to reward you for virtually every little thing to keep you playing. Two words: Discovery XP - you cross an invisible line while moving forward and are rewarded for it. Really.
As for the "popularity" card...
Sure it has millions of players. But so what?
McDonald's has served billions of customers and continues to serve millions more world-wide. And? Frankly, when given the choice of a Big Mac at McDonalds, or a made-to-order, freshly grilled sirloin burger from a Steak House down the street... I sure as hell am not going to opt for the Big Mac because McD's has more customers. Are you? How many customers they serve simply doesn't factor. More doesn't always mean better.
WoW is certainly, to me, the McDonald's of the MMO scene. It's designed for mass-consumption. It's fast, it's easy and - like a fast-food place - you can be in and out in a jiffy. In, order, out. 1, 2, 3. Perfect for those with a not-so-great attention span, and/or always in a hurry. Yes, it's a polished and well executed game. Hey, I've been in some really snazzy McDonald's before. One had plasma TV's everywhere you looked! Still served the same processed burgers though.
As an aside - I realize not everyone who plays WoW has a five-second attention span that needs constant gratification. I know people who simply enjoy the game. My world-view isn't that myopic. I don't work for G4 TV , after all. What I'm saying is that WoW is designed to attract that type of person - the type who would find a MMO like FFXI "too slow". Or, in many cases, sets the expectation of new MMO players that all MMOs are supposed to be like that.
Anyway... back to my main point...
Eventually eating from the same menu gets old. Likewise, eventually doing the same raids or BGs over and over and over again loses its appeal (as accounted for by many, many former and even current WoW players).
Sadly, by various accounts, there's not much more to do in WoW 'til the next expansion... except start (yet) another alt and do it all over (yet) again. Never a problem in FFXI as you can change jobs (classes) on the same character. So completing quests is tied to the character - not the job. In other words, you never have to repeat the same quest, ever, in order to play a different job. Even if you choose to level all 20 available jobs, you never have to do any quest more than once.
You might think "yeah but then don't you run out of things to do?" Ahhh... See... you've been eating at McDonald's too long, if you get my meaning.
I'll put it this way:
I know people playing FFXI since it came out in the US 4+ years ago who have done *alot* - but *still* haven't done everything there is to do in that game, including all the end-game content. It is seriously that immense.
Square does not hold your hand. They take off the training wheels, well, pretty much from the beginning. Frankly, they never really put them on in the first place - at least not in the usual sense. They do not coddle you. They do not patronize you. They want *you*, the player, to take the reigns and forge your own path, on your own terms, at your own pace. SE do not lead you around by the hand with floating '!' or '?' to let you know where to go or what to do next.
To me, FFXI is much more like that local Steak House. It doesn't have as many customers, and maybe there's a longer wait for your food as each meal is cooked to order... But that's fine. You're there to enjoy some good food and good company. There's no hurry. The overall experience is far superior and more satisfying than what you'll get at those golden arches down the street. And wait 'til you see that Steak House's dessert menu!
In the end, I suppose those folks at G4 are just die-hard fast-food junkies.
And, as I said at the outset - that's my opinion.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Wow, I feel like making a character in Pandemonium just to chat with you!
He's much more evil in person.
Come on over! The water's fine! (of course, just be wary of the Goblin Bounty Hunters. Sure they're mainly looking for fish bots, but they get a bit over-zealous sometimes).
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
He's much more evil in person.
/em dons their coat-hanger halo...
<.<
>.>
Evil? Moi? Why... what ever do you mean?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
ok so I watched the review and could not stop laughing its funny, Look not everyone is going to like the same thing, I do like some FF but not all of them, I play FFXI and spend time with others but I understand that the MMO is based on party as a most and not a could be. So X-play does not like it who cares its their opinion But I still like the show like I still like the MMO
Reguardless of what many of you FFXI players believe there is no conspiracy against the game. I am a very open minded mmo player. I have reviewed and made post about many games. Most I can find good reasons to play even ones I do not like much. I gave FFXI a good try gave it 3 months. I think that is a fair amount of time. I am also a fan of G4TV and I agree with many of their reviews. To the OP sorry but Adam Sesler and Morgan Webb are far from ignorant I met them both at E3 they are both true gamers and understand mmos very well. To those that suggest they only support WoW you obviously do not follow the show or know about their reviews of other MMOs. Also Morgan Webb has never hidden the fact that she is not the biggest fan of the MMO genre. Like many gamers I think she thinks of MMOs as mostly time sinks. That does not make her ignorant.
With all that said, I hated FFXI. First and main reason the control system was horrible. The game was design to play on a console and when it made it to PC they never change the control system. I have never played a more awkward to control MMO on a PC. The menu system is horrible. Now for a game 5 or 6 years ago for a console it may have been worth a try but it does not stand up to even some of the poorer MMOs of today. I wanted to like this game so much but no matter how much slack I cut it it was simply no fun for me to play. I did not go around bashing it since I realized some players love it. However I would not recommend this game to anyone with the current choices in MMOs today. G4TV is not out to kill FFXI they like me simply think it is a poor game in todays market and I have to totally agree. Could we get a new comparison for WoW then McDonalds maybe something more creative. I have seen the McDonalds steak comparison about a hundred times. The undertone of these comparisons is always those that like WoW are either kids or players with no experience who do not know any better. I am niether of those and I like WoW. You do not need to put WoW down to defend your game choice. Oh and one more thing I happen to like Mcdonald's.
With that whole post, I what stood out to me is in red. A controller would have made you like things a lot more. They do have those for PC. That's how I play.
What I don't get is, they gave it a good review way back in the day.
To be the best, you must help each other become the best.
FFXI Character: Satimasu
FFXI Server: Valefor
FFXIV Character: Tamorae Fonteil
First: for the italicized yellow sentence - it sounds to me like you wouldn't have recommended it before either. You wouldn't recommend a game you don't like. No great shock there. Neither would I.
Second: I think I can sum up your post thusly: "I hated FFXI. G4 don't like it either. I agree with alot of G4's reviews. And the people I met from there were nice to me, so you just stop picking on them. You don't know them like I do."
Third: Whether my analogy is "creative" or not is not the point. It's maybe a common one because , I don't know, it conveys the idea well? Also I wasn't aware you were going to read or respond to this thread, or I'd have tried harder to come up with something "more creative" for your benefit. Yes, that last sentence was sarcasm.
Fourth: There is no undertone other than the one you are interpreting.
- I inserted the aside specifically to show that I'm aware there are those who enjoy it and don't fit the "ADD" profile. Two of those people happen to be family members.
- There is no delusion of a conspiracy theory here. Where did you even pull that from? In the video, Morgan is openly and gleefully mocking the FF series, including FFXI. If you don't think so, watch it again and don't let your meeting them in person blur your judgement. Morgan is being *extremely* tongue-in-cheek and making no effort at hiding it. Again, they're entitled to their opinions, but being a supposedly professional TV network, I'd expect a bit more integrity than that. That kind of presentation is well at home on a message forum, not on a professionally run cable network.
Finally:
You think FFXI is a lousy game. Your opinion.
I feel FFXI is comparatively a superior title that stands strongly-enough on its own *regardless* of its competition. My opinion.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
WSIMike, never presented my post as anything else but my opinion. The conspiracy idea was a provocative response the the original post title (like G4TV I come here to be both informed and entertained). Your wrong about my recommendation like I said 5 or 6 years ago I said it might have been worth a try. I never said I like the hosts did I? I said they were not ignorant like the OP said they were. I talked to them and listen to them on panel discussions and they both know gaming and they know the industry better then most of the people who post here. I never said Morgan did not mock the game. She did, if you follow G4TV she has always disliked FF until 12 with the new combat system. My point was simply they are not ignorant. G4TV is entertainment pure and simple they say provacative things because they are in the entertainment buisness. What has that have to do with their intergrity.
I never once questioned your love of FFXI or your reasons for loving it. I simply have heard the McDonald's steak thing many times. I was not putting you down in fact I have read many of your post you are a good writer. However, no I do not think it conveys the idea well. Also I said the undertone of "These comparisons" I was talking about them in a general term hence "These". Less about your comments specifically as the general tone often about WoW players from those that do not like the game. You even comment about players lack of attention span and "training wheels" as if an expereince MMO player could not possibly get much out of WoW. If your world view is not that myopic then make your point without these types of comments in the first place. I think it is great you love FFXI. I also do not think a game has to go on forever or say 4 years to be a great game. WoW was not intended to be that type of game as far as I can tell.
About the controller issue. Yes I tried it on a contoller and yes it does play a bit better. I still found the control and menu system not well thought out and seemed to take me out of the immersion. For those who need clarification this is just my opinion.
Easy enough for a 5 year old? I maybe wrong but I have not seen any 5 year olds in Karazhan lately.
Easy enough for a 5 year old? I maybe wrong but I have not seen any 5 year olds in Karazhan lately.
It's called sarcasm. And you may think everyone is against you because you're on the FFXI, but despite all you've said you have to agree that WoW is a game that is extremely easy and designed for the casual audience. Yes, a hardcore player can get some mileage out of it, but after 6 months (maybe a year) of blasting their way through the content there is nothing left. WoW is an extremely easy game, and I would not doubt that a 5 year old could play it and play it effectively.With that said, they are two completely different "brands" of MMORPGs... if you like WoW you most likely will not like FFXI, and vice versa.
Easy enough for a 5 year old? I maybe wrong but I have not seen any 5 year olds in Karazhan lately.
It's called sarcasm. And you may think everyone is against you because you're on the FFXI, but despite all you've said you have to agree that WoW is a game that is extremely easy and designed for the casual audience. Yes, a hardcore player can get some mileage out of it, but after 6 months (maybe a year) of blasting their way through the content there is nothing left. WoW is an extremely easy game, and I would not doubt that a 5 year old could play it and play it effectively.With that said, they are two completely different "brands" of MMORPGs... if you like WoW you most likely will not like FFXI, and vice versa.
I do not think anyone is against me. Where did I say anything even close to that? I Just do not think a 5 year old can play WoW "effectively". Now my 3 year old niece loves to play with Monopoly she make towns with the little houses and love to move the metal pieces around the board. Hardly the same as playing Monopoly. Never said WoW was not for casual players, it surely can be that is the beauty. Why does a game have to offer years of hardcore play to be considered good.
A few people in this thread have made assumptions about my feelings about both FFXI and WoW based on their feeling not what I posted. If you read my posts I did not like FFXI because I felt it was poorly designed and that flaw made it hard to be immersed in game. I never said anything about how hard or easy FFXI was. You are assuming I like WoW because it is a casual game. When did I ever mention that. I like WoW because it is a well designed polished game.
Thanks for pointing out what sarcasm is, never heard of it before (is that sarcasm?). I guess it is a lot like me saying I have not seen a 5 year old in Karazhan. The funny thing is you seem to think I am some WoW lover or something like that. First off I do play WoW but it is hardly my favorite MMO. If you must know EVE and EQ2 are my prefered games at the moment. I have been playing both for years. I also play LoTRO and Lineage II. My favorite MMOs were Saga of Ryzom and pre-nge SWG hardly for the casual player. Yes I do enjoy an occasion romp in WoW. I am not a WoW fanboi never have been. Maybe that helps clear things up a bit.
If they made the game so it was easier to get an effective party together, make it not take so long to level - or, hell, not even that's really that big of a deal, if I could get into a damn party without taking almost my entire playtime to do so -- make a wider variety of armor for at least the later levels, make it just a tad easier to get around, and make the crafting not suck, then this would be the greatest game ever and I'd never stop playing.
The atmosphere, the storyline, the cutscenes, the combat, the graphics, the music, everything is awesome. But when it comes down to it, I find myself unable to sit around for hours looking for a party so that I can finally get in one, pull once, wipe, and have the party disband enough to actually get through to all the greatness.
Plus the crafting is horrible, and they make some classes - especially Ninja - far too dependant on crafted items that aren't always around, and are far too expensive when they are.
But this game is too old and set in its ways now, so I know it'll never change. I can only hope the next MMO Square-Enix puts out is a lot better with at least these issues.
This game is old, yes... 6 years old to be precise. Does that make it a bad game? No. Could things be done to make the game better? Of course. No game is ever perfect. I perfectly agree with anyone who can point out valid points about why this game is not good and back them up with arguments. What I do not like, and I am absolutely not pointing at anyone here (which is why I didn't use the quote button), is when people come on these forums and automatically assume they know what this game is about without playing it for long enough.
Yes, FFXI is not for everyone. EVE Online isn't for everyone, nor was the original EQ. Are those bad games? No, but that's exactly what they are: niche games that will never have the mass appeal that WoW has right now.
FFXI is not about grinding to level 75 and then being done with the game. There is so much content available that grinding is only a small portion of what you can do. However, with the way MMOs are right now, people assume that the only thing they should be doing is leveling without giving regard to anything else. This should not be the case.
One misrepresentation of this game is that it takes hours to find a party. It has NEVER taken me "hours" to find a party in this game over the lifetime that I have played this game since it was released. At most, on off times of the day, it took me about 45 minutes to find a party. Yes, that does seem like a lot, but was I just standing around waiting for a /tell? No... I was doing some of the other things I mentioned are available in FFXI, which in that case was crafting.
As for what Gajari said, anyone who read that without playing the game would think that, first of all, about 5 people in total played the game and all of them had IQs of less than 50. That is in no way the case, and it does not take hours to get parties together. The game is not about instant gratification, like WoW is. You will NOT get a level a day (at the higher levels, that is) unless you play all day with an amazing party. Does every party suck? Of course not.
Gagari said "I find myself unable to sit around for hours looking for a party so that I can finally get in one, pull once, wipe, and have the party disband..." That is a ridiculous exaggeration of something that almost never happens in this game. Yes, deaths happen, and yes, more often than not it might be on the first fight before a party is accustomed to play with each other, but that definitely does not happen all the time. In my experience playing the game since I've come back I've died a total of 2 times in a party, and I've spent a lot of time in parties. 2 times out of however many I've done? That doesn't seem like a majority of the time to me. If your party is wiping all the time and disbanding then you should look at yourself, not the people around you.
Yes, the game has more downtime than other games, most notably WoW, but traveling is not as bad as people make it seem. Yes, at the beginning you will be walking everywhere, but in what game is that not the case? At level 20 you can rent a Chocobo, or, if you spend the time, you can raise your own Chocobo and not worry about the price. There is the ability to warp between outposts, towns, and home points, not to mention the Teleports White Mages can give.
Anyways, there's more I wanted to say but I doubt anyone who is here just to bash the game and run will have read any of this anyways. The game is not for anyone, but don't come in here and make baseless arguments that are in no way true representations of the game today.