1. Did I say PQs were not open air? Still, it seems like you are rehashing what I have already said on the point. To me and others, they are a new possibly better reincarnation of AV. To you, not so much. Fine we disagree. But why sweep said concern under, as 'troll bait' while it has been a valid comment for some time? Again, that arguement is not the point of the thread.
Man are you stupid or what..?
There's been like 4 post trying to explain to you that PQ's have nothing in common with AV, there NO PVP IN PQ'S whatsoever, these are just open air PvE quest with several stages with increasing difficulty, which you can join at any time. How are you comparing AV with PvE?
Nobody can be that stupid.. the answer to the 'or what' is a guy who is obviously getting immense pleasure out of fustrating WAR players with his innane comments and inability to grasp the most basic concepts in the game.
Since PQ's are there at the earliest stages of the game, the guy was clearly lying when he said he had 'studied' WAR.
I am certainly not claiming that every aspect of Warhammer is brand new. I've also never had the opportunity to play a truly sandbox game. (Closest would probably be AC) Still, I can honestly say that playing WAR has been the most fun I've ever had in an MMO... and this is with my character constantly being wiped in beta. Only game that may or may not exist and may or may not be coming out soon that could pull away a lot of my time is Darkfall as I really want to try a full sandbox game where i can truly see the world grow around me.
It's people like blind fanboys that cause games to come out the way they are. To you, betas aren't for testing, but to get a head start on the game- so you can claim your machizmo when it is released (and of course turn around and bash it after release, and go to the next big thing)
This is a common misconception of "beta testing". Developers don't really need you to do anything more than play the game so they can run diagnostic programs while you play. That's all beta is, and all you really need to do. I know some players like to think they are important in a beta, because THEY are actually "testing" the game, but all they have to do is play the game.
But if you want to think you're some sort of superior "beta tester" because you actively look for bugs, and your intentions are pure, go ahead. As long as you play the game, it really doesn't matter what your intentions are, that's all teh devs need from you.
Alpha is different, but you mentioned "beta testing".
Yes I know it's beta still, but you guys gave grief to AoC for the last several months, pointing out graphics, gameplay, and content as reasons why Funcom should be erased from history.
Apparently, the OP had high hopes for AoC as well. Just for the record eveyone who was disapointed with AoC gave the game grief. That's usually what happens when a consumer base is unhappy with a product.
Most know there are valid concerns about this game, thats why many of us try to quell them with fact and try not to candy coat things. However, there are many who are just looking to pick a fight to see how many pages their thread can get before it's buried or locked. There's no need in coming into someone elses Church trying to preach a different faith to it's followers. For those who want to convert someone there is a place called "General Discussion".
1. Did I say PQs were not open air? Still, it seems like you are rehashing what I have already said on the point. To me and others, they are a new possibly better reincarnation of AV. To you, not so much. Fine we disagree. But why sweep said concern under, as 'troll bait' while it has been a valid comment for some time? Again, that arguement is not the point of the thread.
Man are you stupid or what..?
There's been like 4 post trying to explain to you that PQ's have nothing in common with AV, there NO PVP IN PQ'S whatsoever, these are just open air PvE quest with several stages with increasing difficulty, which you can join at any time. How are you comparing AV with PvE?
Actually, there are PQs where you contest against the other side, and i have never been on at near peak hours where pvp was not happening in them.
But yes there are battle field objectives which basiclly are pvp pqs (They rank and give loot and everything).
Like take over a keep or tower , etc. etc.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
K. let me see if I get your points, who knows in the end I might agree with you. 1. PQs are 'scenerios' and WAR has 22, while WoW had 4. So that makes it all the more worth it? Grinding even more 'scenerios' for 'influence' points (read rep points) to get better pvp gear? Sounds just like grinding battlegrounds for faction specific gear. which brings me to my next point, I think... 2. Influence points are divided between the tier zones. I guess that is sort of like going from AB to AV, to EotS, with the ultimate goal to get the most high lvl pvp gear. As stated before, if this game is being hailed as so much better than WoW, why is so blatantly ripping it off? Don't get me started on the whole which came first scenerio, as I know well enough, War IP came before WoW, but that WoW as a <game> is still WAR's 'deadbeat dad'. I have been studying WAR, and many other games for some time. Luckly, I was not victimized with the whole GOA thing (that's a forebare of a much more questionable future), and so kinda know what's going on with the game. I understand why the graphics are the way they are (to stay true to war, and make it look better than wow. But come on, use some higher poly models, and make the ranges further out before greying. Don't give me the whole 'graphics aren't on max' crap. What you see now, is what you will see upon release. Now, maybe you have confused the intentions of my original post. I am not necessarily a 'hater' of this game, just one that sees some obvious flaws which will be game breaking for some. I am trying to rehash the fact that many valid concerns are getting the response that you so... eloquently gave me.
No I am no fan of Blizzard, other than their cinematics. I had hoped that was clear in the original post, but I guess not. On that subject alone, I like WAR's as well.
Can PvP from level 1 if I really want to, and I really do. I can level all the way from 1 to 40 through PvP, if I really want to. I get nothing for my effort anywhere else, which has always seemed backwards since a human target is much more difficult to kill than an NPC.
Gear is awarded in full sets for each tier and doesn't require a tremendous amount of PvE grinding for cash to get. (problem I had with both EQ2 and WoW).
I don't have to spend weeks worth of hours raiding (which imo is still the worst, most boring, POS, waste of my damn time, concept ever invented) in order to be effective in more raids, so I can get the gear I need to be effective in PvP. (another huge problem for me in WoW and especially EQ2).
Objectives. Keeps, City Sieges. (2 is still better than the 0 everywhere else) Massive battles that serve actually purpose.
MMO's are never going to be great on graphics, it's not possible. I wish Funcom a whole lot of luck with their dream of DX10 and great performance. I'm sure a couple hundred people will be very happy with the environments there when they get around to it.
Anyway they've definitely delivered on everything I was hoping for. It seems to me you're comparing the two at a core level, which is kind of like saying they're both online and multiplayer, also they've got two realms, so WAR = WoW. And not much different than the guys that went Orcs and Goblins and Dwarves? lololol!
The texture maps have little to do with it. Look at the meshes. Look at the -stylistic- differences. Think art, not tech; WoW had great art and low tech, and WAR's art looks JUST like it ought to for its setting; the whole look screams Warhammer, which makes me very happy as an old tabletop player.
I don't have a problem with the combat; it seems much more fluid to me than WoW's ever did, and I rarely find myself mashing a button to be sure the move will go off ASAP in RvR, which happened a lot in WoW PvP.
Another BIG advantage of this over WoW PvP: there aren't -nearly- as many ridiculous, control-breaking stuns, fears and generally awful decisions. And taunts and detaunts work in PvP as much as they do in PvE.
Overall, there have been a lot of great design decisions here, and although I agree the game hasn't got quite the same UI slickness as WoW, they've been constantly improving it throughout beta; I've been watching the user interaction and interface evolve for quite a while, and it's made a huge difference. I'm sure it'll continue to.
Also, the nonexistent PvE deal? I can hardly answer to that. You're willfully blind on this subject and I'm not going to try to hammer home the excruciatingly obvious to a person who just doesn't want to see it. There's PvE everywhere. There are -loads- of quests, PQs absolutely everywhere, good rewards and interesting itemization that gives you enough to really make your character do what you want it to do. The RvR gear has gotten a nerf... which is a good thing. Okay? The old RvR gear was so powerful and so specialized that RvRing without it was kind of silly, but now that it's gotten a step down it's much better. People are bawwwwing about it because it's not as uber as it used to be, but now things are a lot more balanced between PvE items and PvP items. It takes a lot of RvR to be as powerful gearwise as a good PQ runner who scoots around and finds different places and different gearsets... and who occasionally rolls Major and Massive loot bags.
You're calling other folks blind fanboys, and you're a blind critic for no better reason than you don't like the graphics and you don't accept 'it's in beta' as a reason to forgive its minor UI problems.
I'm an absolute design junkie. I love figuring out how games work and what makes them tick, and how to most efficiently use things. The WAR team has made some fantastic decisions, and if you can't understand them then you just haven't got a decent grasp on fucking -math-.
First, I am well aware this is my first post, and some will quickly point that out and call me a troll. I have been a lurker on this site, visiting almost every day for the last several years, not only to learn about a host of games, but to learn about the general gaming community itself. I know that some of the simpletons will use various schemes to try to dismiss this thread. Everything from first post, to grammar usage, etc. Just hear me out, starting with my experience and perspective from other games. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WoW/BC---- made for those that wish for mindless entertainment. showed the world that you don't have to think to play an mmo
Lots of opinions with no justification. How you can single out WoW as mindless is really baffling when EQ2 and LOTRO are nearly identical in gameplay. I liked all three of the games, but preferred WoW, so I suppose that makes me a simpleton.
I also find it ironic that your WoW 2.0 is more like LOTRO, but I guess you can't get hung up on specifics.
I've been on these boards long enough to recognize all of your opinions as nothing but the same old cliched drivel that has been posted by every troll under the sun.
Thanks though for the edification. Really. I'll go back to pounding sand with the rest of my short-bus friends that played WoW.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
First, I am well aware this is my first post, and some will quickly point that out and call me a troll. I have been a lurker on this site, visiting almost every day for the last several years, not only to learn about a host of games, but to learn about the general gaming community itself. I know that some of the simpletons will use various schemes to try to dismiss this thread. Everything from first post, to grammar usage, etc. Just hear me out, starting with my experience and perspective from other games. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SWG-till CU------ ruined with CU/NGE EQ2- till vampire 'mini-expansion'---- wasn't that enticing, plus too many bugs, then became dated Guild Wars---- end game became boring, when all that was left was guild pvp WoW/BC---- made for those that wish for mindless entertainment. showed the world that you don't have to think to play an mmo. LoTRO------ graphics are lazy for it's time. takes too many liberties with lore, and best for fanboys of the books (kind of like current swg, in that sense) CoH/V--- graphics and gameplay not too bad, missions are mind-knumblingly repetitive. no real difference in scenery among missions. NCSoft Customer Service is nearly nonexistant DAOC Catacombs- dated gameplay/graphics. couldn't really get into the story, and useless unless you were high lvl to do rvr Lineage 2---- bot ridden, kind of reminded me of swg docs. character graphics were nice, environmental- not as much. gameplay was kind of fun, but an enormous grinde. Eve- different, challenging, hardcore, sometimes a bit boring while going on long pipe runs. great strategic battles, but smaller ships could use a little more of a twitch feel, something along the lines of jump to lightspeed's controls. not great for larger ships, but would make frigates and dd's much more fun and effective. AoC- great graphics, tried some new things and didn't quite work. world was much too small, combat not as useful as it could be. expensive bugs ( as in man-hours to fix) for a company with their finances D&D Online- boring in the first 5 minutes. UI and graphics need intensive care. Horizons- tried something sort of new for it's time. company/game missmanaged. buggy... you know the story Vanguard: Soh- graphics not bad, but someone needs to shoot the specular map-happy environmental artists. there is a phong setting to t-maps. and you dont need to use particules to create 3d clouds. that creates unneeded load, and further glitching. sigil needs to learn to use their programs. gameplay glitchy, pvp non-existant. could do without cardgames, and bring in meaningful pvp as an alternative use of time.
Now hopefully you can tell that I am by no means a 'fanboy' of any current games ( although keeping an eye on Aion and Stargate for the last few years). Being relatively objective and nonpartisan, I have to question the War fanboys, on why they are blindly defending the game that has clear flaws that have been pointed out for some time. Everything from WoW 2.0 graphics (yes they are slightly better than WoW's, but only because they use a higher rez tmap), to clunky gameplay. Is it supposed to litterally feel like you are your 25 year old tabletop figurine, or something a little more fluid and lifelike? Also they cannot claim to be an mmorpg, with nearly nonexistant pve content. The absence of it, turns the great Warhammer, into Battlenet 2.0. I am greatly saddened to see that. Yes I know it's beta still, but you guys gave grief to AoC for the last several months, pointing out graphics, gameplay, and content as reasons why Funcom should be erased from history. Now you are being extremely forgiving to MJ, that like Erling Ellisen-- promised the sun, but dropped his pants and showed a moon. It's people like blind fanboys that cause games to come out the way they are. To you, betas aren't for testing, but to get a head start on the game- so you can claim your machizmo when it is released (and of course turn around and bash it after release, and go to the next big thing) People have valid concerns about Warhammer. Don't just dismiss them as trolls, because they don't agree with you.
There is actually more pve content in war than there is in wow if you take out raiding..so you are telling blatant lies here. Maybe you should play the game first before making an idiotic thread like this. you haven't played the game so your opinion is flawed. The game is great and more fun than i have had in any mainstream mmo (lotro, eq2, wow)
Comments
Man are you stupid or what..?
There's been like 4 post trying to explain to you that PQ's have nothing in common with AV, there NO PVP IN PQ'S whatsoever, these are just open air PvE quest with several stages with increasing difficulty, which you can join at any time. How are you comparing AV with PvE?
Nobody can be that stupid.. the answer to the 'or what' is a guy who is obviously getting immense pleasure out of fustrating WAR players with his innane comments and inability to grasp the most basic concepts in the game.
Since PQ's are there at the earliest stages of the game, the guy was clearly lying when he said he had 'studied' WAR.
For someone that "lurks" on this site the OP certainly has a lot to say. . .
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You wouldn't understand
I am certainly not claiming that every aspect of Warhammer is brand new. I've also never had the opportunity to play a truly sandbox game. (Closest would probably be AC) Still, I can honestly say that playing WAR has been the most fun I've ever had in an MMO... and this is with my character constantly being wiped in beta. Only game that may or may not exist and may or may not be coming out soon that could pull away a lot of my time is Darkfall as I really want to try a full sandbox game where i can truly see the world grow around me.
This is a common misconception of "beta testing". Developers don't really need you to do anything more than play the game so they can run diagnostic programs while you play. That's all beta is, and all you really need to do. I know some players like to think they are important in a beta, because THEY are actually "testing" the game, but all they have to do is play the game.
But if you want to think you're some sort of superior "beta tester" because you actively look for bugs, and your intentions are pure, go ahead. As long as you play the game, it really doesn't matter what your intentions are, that's all teh devs need from you.
Alpha is different, but you mentioned "beta testing".
Apparently, the OP had high hopes for AoC as well. Just for the record eveyone who was disapointed with AoC gave the game grief. That's usually what happens when a consumer base is unhappy with a product.
Most know there are valid concerns about this game, thats why many of us try to quell them with fact and try not to candy coat things. However, there are many who are just looking to pick a fight to see how many pages their thread can get before it's buried or locked. There's no need in coming into someone elses Church trying to preach a different faith to it's followers. For those who want to convert someone there is a place called "General Discussion".
Man are you stupid or what..?
There's been like 4 post trying to explain to you that PQ's have nothing in common with AV, there NO PVP IN PQ'S whatsoever, these are just open air PvE quest with several stages with increasing difficulty, which you can join at any time. How are you comparing AV with PvE?
Actually, there are PQs where you contest against the other side, and i have never been on at near peak hours where pvp was not happening in them.
But yes there are battle field objectives which basiclly are pvp pqs (They rank and give loot and everything).
Like take over a keep or tower , etc. etc.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Can PvP from level 1 if I really want to, and I really do. I can level all the way from 1 to 40 through PvP, if I really want to. I get nothing for my effort anywhere else, which has always seemed backwards since a human target is much more difficult to kill than an NPC.
Gear is awarded in full sets for each tier and doesn't require a tremendous amount of PvE grinding for cash to get. (problem I had with both EQ2 and WoW).
I don't have to spend weeks worth of hours raiding (which imo is still the worst, most boring, POS, waste of my damn time, concept ever invented) in order to be effective in more raids, so I can get the gear I need to be effective in PvP. (another huge problem for me in WoW and especially EQ2).
Objectives. Keeps, City Sieges. (2 is still better than the 0 everywhere else) Massive battles that serve actually purpose.
MMO's are never going to be great on graphics, it's not possible. I wish Funcom a whole lot of luck with their dream of DX10 and great performance. I'm sure a couple hundred people will be very happy with the environments there when they get around to it.
Anyway they've definitely delivered on everything I was hoping for. It seems to me you're comparing the two at a core level, which is kind of like saying they're both online and multiplayer, also they've got two realms, so WAR = WoW. And not much different than the guys that went Orcs and Goblins and Dwarves? lololol!
The graphics aren't a step up from WoW?
The texture maps have little to do with it. Look at the meshes. Look at the -stylistic- differences. Think art, not tech; WoW had great art and low tech, and WAR's art looks JUST like it ought to for its setting; the whole look screams Warhammer, which makes me very happy as an old tabletop player.
I don't have a problem with the combat; it seems much more fluid to me than WoW's ever did, and I rarely find myself mashing a button to be sure the move will go off ASAP in RvR, which happened a lot in WoW PvP.
Another BIG advantage of this over WoW PvP: there aren't -nearly- as many ridiculous, control-breaking stuns, fears and generally awful decisions. And taunts and detaunts work in PvP as much as they do in PvE.
Overall, there have been a lot of great design decisions here, and although I agree the game hasn't got quite the same UI slickness as WoW, they've been constantly improving it throughout beta; I've been watching the user interaction and interface evolve for quite a while, and it's made a huge difference. I'm sure it'll continue to.
Also, the nonexistent PvE deal? I can hardly answer to that. You're willfully blind on this subject and I'm not going to try to hammer home the excruciatingly obvious to a person who just doesn't want to see it. There's PvE everywhere. There are -loads- of quests, PQs absolutely everywhere, good rewards and interesting itemization that gives you enough to really make your character do what you want it to do. The RvR gear has gotten a nerf... which is a good thing. Okay? The old RvR gear was so powerful and so specialized that RvRing without it was kind of silly, but now that it's gotten a step down it's much better. People are bawwwwing about it because it's not as uber as it used to be, but now things are a lot more balanced between PvE items and PvP items. It takes a lot of RvR to be as powerful gearwise as a good PQ runner who scoots around and finds different places and different gearsets... and who occasionally rolls Major and Massive loot bags.
You're calling other folks blind fanboys, and you're a blind critic for no better reason than you don't like the graphics and you don't accept 'it's in beta' as a reason to forgive its minor UI problems.
I'm an absolute design junkie. I love figuring out how games work and what makes them tick, and how to most efficiently use things. The WAR team has made some fantastic decisions, and if you can't understand them then you just haven't got a decent grasp on fucking -math-.
Lots of opinions with no justification. How you can single out WoW as mindless is really baffling when EQ2 and LOTRO are nearly identical in gameplay. I liked all three of the games, but preferred WoW, so I suppose that makes me a simpleton.
I also find it ironic that your WoW 2.0 is more like LOTRO, but I guess you can't get hung up on specifics.
I've been on these boards long enough to recognize all of your opinions as nothing but the same old cliched drivel that has been posted by every troll under the sun.
Thanks though for the edification. Really. I'll go back to pounding sand with the rest of my short-bus friends that played WoW.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
There is actually more pve content in war than there is in wow if you take out raiding..so you are telling blatant lies here. Maybe you should play the game first before making an idiotic thread like this. you haven't played the game so your opinion is flawed. The game is great and more fun than i have had in any mainstream mmo (lotro, eq2, wow)