I can fully understand if ppl don't like open PvP or ganking. But my poison is competetive PvP like in Guild Wars, WAR scenarios or in FPS games. To hate that kind of PvP is like hating sports. Whats wrong with sports? I get more kicks out of beating a living, thinking, learning opponent than to beat some AI. It is all about the challenge for me so I don't get ganking. You pick some player whos not expecting you and has an inferior character? Whats fun with that? I'd be the worst ganker: I'd pick someone who could actually beat me just for the risk of it. Or I'd challenge them for a fair duel.
Oh and btw: It isn't about the winning. Outcome is secondary to the experience of a close match or fight. If you lose, you learn. If you win, you don't. So yeah "it's fun".
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I like to feel like I am part of something bigger than my individual character, where I can be both insignificant and still be able to turn the tide of battle through my actions. I like to feel like I am getting better and that I learn from my mistakes, rather than being beaten by simple statistics. Item rewards are a definite turn off for me. I'd rather be fighting for territory or resources than items. I like the commeradarie of a well fought battle or a well executed strategic plan. I like to be able to inspire and be inspired by other players who see a bigger picture and are willing to put that above their own personal gain, and still have fun even if we lose.
These things are becoming harder and harder to find in the MMO genre, which saddens me deeply.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Nonetheless, I love pvp. I love it when its a pure and fair match;fighting an equally geared enemy with equal skill. I find this happened most often to me when I was leveling a new toon. On my paladin, fighting an undead mage dozens of times in eastern plaguelands. On my paladin again, killing and being killed by a single lock in feralas. On my warrior, constantly being jumped by an amazingly hard to kill druid in zangarmarsh...who happened to be 3 levels below me (killed me once, i got him 3 times.) On my hunter, fighting a shaman for 3 days straight in Nagrand and Blade's edge mountain. Those are really my favorite moments of pvp, when its outdoors, spontaneous, and resilience and UBER PURPS are not in the picture.
This pretty much explains it for me.
I love the one-on-one battles that come out of nowhere that are actually pretty balanced. They're just so much more exciting than mob battles. Like the above poster I well remember a number of excellent encounters that were more exciting combat that I ever had in the PvE.
Still, I never quite know if I prefer PvE servers or PvP. Although I've rarely been ganked repeatedly by a player I still find it rather annoying. I'm interested in Darkfall (I don't derail this thread - sorry), but if the ganking is out of control I'm not interested. I cannot play as much as some people, so I'll be lower level than most and I can only take so much beating.
For me the ideal game would have open world PvP in some areas, but also some safe zones. I really enjoy PvP some of the time, but I still want some areas to be safe or virtually safe. A bit like EVE I guess.
My other gripe with PvP is that the 'requirement' to balance classes makes them all rather too similar. Youu just couldn't have open world PvP in a game like FFXI for instance.
The one on one battles don't do it at all for me..they can come down to rock paper scissors, ping, situations like mobs, hp/mp%, etc...even arenas aren't perfect. I enjoy it more of an overall sense of PvP. And clan/party based PvP...if 50 of your clan beat 50 of another clan after a 5-10 minute fight...then you have no excuses for losing other than the winner was better.
Same reason people play chess. It's fun, competitive, and always has room to improve. People like testing builds, learning tactics, and simply getting better at it. I can't understand why people play MMOs to get together and fight a bunch of mindless mobs. PvE takes no skill and has really no room for improvement. Every mob is the same, it runs up and melees you over and over, some cast basic spells but its just dumb.
Ok, you can "not get" pve, that's fine. but saying it has no room for skill? please...
sure, pvp can (key word, CAN) be more challenging, depending on the person and the opponent. pve can also be a challenge, again based on the people and the opponent. In the case of pvp, the difference is that the opponent is capable of thinking outside the box, forming their own stratagies and ideas dynamically. with pve, the opponent is scripted, yes, but you still have to figure out how that script is going to react to different actions, and you also have to work well with other people to make your counter measures work right.
Overall, there's skill in both types of gameplay, different types of skills, but skills non-the-less.
And to answer the original poster, for me at least, I don't pvp often, but when I do, it's mostly to get a chance at a large scale battle (not a fan of arena, dueling and such) and try to work with other players, against a group of other players, to fight over something. be it an objective, a keep, whatever. Just to move for a goal knowing that the opponents blocking that are going to put up a good and challenging fight, that you can't just follow a guide for (not that i'd go for guides anyway, might aswell just hire someone to play for you if you go that route, but that's going off track there)
Go watch a video of a character in WoW killing a boar tell me how that takes skill.
It's the same with every other crappy WoW wannabe as well. LOTRO/EQ/Vangaurd/Level-Based-Grind all have the exact same crappy, mindless combat system, especially in PvE. No matter what you differently the mob dies or you die, theres no inbetween., no room to improve. Do you ever see people saying, "Hey man, I'm gonna go practive killing these dragons so I get better at it." No, but you do hear about people dueling to practice, and things of PvP nature.
Every PvP MMO has famous PvPers. People talk about them like, "That mike guy is one of the best duelists around." Do you ever hear "man, that mike guy sure is good at killing boars" ? Absolutely not, because everyone can kill stuff in PvE, its mindless and skilless.
As long as you have hands and a semi-functioning brainstem you can kill mobs in PvE.
I feel I should first make a concession: PvP is not my thing. I find it repetetive, shallow, massively infuriating and not what MMORPGs should be about. I'll be the first to admit I utterly suck at it (which probably goes a long way to explain my negative bias). I'm really interested to find out why people find this gameplay so appealing. Having discussed it with my guildies, I'm still none the wiser. Some say "It's more exciting and unpredictable that fighting against a computer", to which my counter-argument was that predictability means you're more often than not going to be more prepared. Others simply said: "It's fun", which is a very ambiguous statement. I'm going to admit that I have somewhat of a misconception about people who like to PvP - that they are driven by some kind of bloodlust for wanton killing. I realise this is completely irrational, but I would like some of the more eloquent among you to describe what exactly it is about PvP that makes it so appealing, so that a self confessed 'carebear' can get a better grasp of the psychology behind its supporters. Please show me that it's not simply alleviating some base need for mindless killing.
My favourite thing to do is PVP. Usually it is because I enjoy the challenge. Other players tend to have abilities that are superior to NPCs, and they tend to be much more intelligent in a fight. The tactics that an actual person may employ greatly surpass the options programmed into most NPCs. It feels like a contest of wits, preparation, reaction time and a measure of skill. It's this contest that gives me my enjoyment. The contest, the challenge and the uncertainty make it a real thrill.
Comments
PLANETSIDE FTW!!!!!!!!
I can fully understand if ppl don't like open PvP or ganking. But my poison is competetive PvP like in Guild Wars, WAR scenarios or in FPS games. To hate that kind of PvP is like hating sports. Whats wrong with sports? I get more kicks out of beating a living, thinking, learning opponent than to beat some AI. It is all about the challenge for me so I don't get ganking. You pick some player whos not expecting you and has an inferior character? Whats fun with that? I'd be the worst ganker: I'd pick someone who could actually beat me just for the risk of it. Or I'd challenge them for a fair duel.
Oh and btw: It isn't about the winning. Outcome is secondary to the experience of a close match or fight. If you lose, you learn. If you win, you don't. So yeah "it's fun".
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I like to feel like I am part of something bigger than my individual character, where I can be both insignificant and still be able to turn the tide of battle through my actions. I like to feel like I am getting better and that I learn from my mistakes, rather than being beaten by simple statistics. Item rewards are a definite turn off for me. I'd rather be fighting for territory or resources than items. I like the commeradarie of a well fought battle or a well executed strategic plan. I like to be able to inspire and be inspired by other players who see a bigger picture and are willing to put that above their own personal gain, and still have fun even if we lose.
These things are becoming harder and harder to find in the MMO genre, which saddens me deeply.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
This pretty much explains it for me.
I love the one-on-one battles that come out of nowhere that are actually pretty balanced. They're just so much more exciting than mob battles. Like the above poster I well remember a number of excellent encounters that were more exciting combat that I ever had in the PvE.
Still, I never quite know if I prefer PvE servers or PvP. Although I've rarely been ganked repeatedly by a player I still find it rather annoying. I'm interested in Darkfall (I don't derail this thread - sorry), but if the ganking is out of control I'm not interested. I cannot play as much as some people, so I'll be lower level than most and I can only take so much beating.
For me the ideal game would have open world PvP in some areas, but also some safe zones. I really enjoy PvP some of the time, but I still want some areas to be safe or virtually safe. A bit like EVE I guess.
My other gripe with PvP is that the 'requirement' to balance classes makes them all rather too similar. Youu just couldn't have open world PvP in a game like FFXI for instance.
The one on one battles don't do it at all for me..they can come down to rock paper scissors, ping, situations like mobs, hp/mp%, etc...even arenas aren't perfect. I enjoy it more of an overall sense of PvP. And clan/party based PvP...if 50 of your clan beat 50 of another clan after a 5-10 minute fight...then you have no excuses for losing other than the winner was better.
Ok, you can "not get" pve, that's fine. but saying it has no room for skill? please...
sure, pvp can (key word, CAN) be more challenging, depending on the person and the opponent. pve can also be a challenge, again based on the people and the opponent. In the case of pvp, the difference is that the opponent is capable of thinking outside the box, forming their own stratagies and ideas dynamically. with pve, the opponent is scripted, yes, but you still have to figure out how that script is going to react to different actions, and you also have to work well with other people to make your counter measures work right.
Overall, there's skill in both types of gameplay, different types of skills, but skills non-the-less.
And to answer the original poster, for me at least, I don't pvp often, but when I do, it's mostly to get a chance at a large scale battle (not a fan of arena, dueling and such) and try to work with other players, against a group of other players, to fight over something. be it an objective, a keep, whatever. Just to move for a goal knowing that the opponents blocking that are going to put up a good and challenging fight, that you can't just follow a guide for (not that i'd go for guides anyway, might aswell just hire someone to play for you if you go that route, but that's going off track there)
Go watch a video of a character in WoW killing a boar tell me how that takes skill.
It's the same with every other crappy WoW wannabe as well. LOTRO/EQ/Vangaurd/Level-Based-Grind all have the exact same crappy, mindless combat system, especially in PvE. No matter what you differently the mob dies or you die, theres no inbetween., no room to improve. Do you ever see people saying, "Hey man, I'm gonna go practive killing these dragons so I get better at it." No, but you do hear about people dueling to practice, and things of PvP nature.
Every PvP MMO has famous PvPers. People talk about them like, "That mike guy is one of the best duelists around." Do you ever hear "man, that mike guy sure is good at killing boars" ? Absolutely not, because everyone can kill stuff in PvE, its mindless and skilless.
As long as you have hands and a semi-functioning brainstem you can kill mobs in PvE.
-------------------------
PvE => I beat something that somebody else did, but before somebody else.
PvP=> I have definitivly proven I am superior to the person I defeated.
Its a little more cut and dry.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
My favourite thing to do is PVP. Usually it is because I enjoy the challenge. Other players tend to have abilities that are superior to NPCs, and they tend to be much more intelligent in a fight. The tactics that an actual person may employ greatly surpass the options programmed into most NPCs. It feels like a contest of wits, preparation, reaction time and a measure of skill. It's this contest that gives me my enjoyment. The contest, the challenge and the uncertainty make it a real thrill.