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Putting yourself out there......
Maybe I should look at it a different way.
I guess from a different perspective, it takes courage to be so steadfast about something that you have not experienced yourself. It is similar to religion. I've never really grasped the whold concept of religion, that you could be so sure of something you cannot possibly back-up with any type of evidence or first hand experience. But I can also respect someone who says this is my belief, this is why, and I will not be swayed.
The people in that category are intriguing. While I am on the opposite side of the coin, neither one of us are zealots about the stance and can respect the other. It's when you step beyond that spectrum that I lose all respect and understanding. The guy who stands outside the abortion clinic with a sign. The guy who stands on the corner with a massive sign yelling about Jesus Saves. And on the opposite side, the a-hole atheists who go to congress to have Christmas banned. To take the pledge of allegiance out of public schools.
And while I have strayed far outside the topic of MMOs, the people who have followed Darkfall are easily lumped into these categories. There are hundreds of threads on here with the guy's holding up the Darkfall Saves sign and spouting line after line of nonsense. All logic has left them, and they support everything about the game 100% without using any type of judgement. I'm not saying you have to experience something first hand to have an opinion on it, I just don't get at what point you take up the sign? The sword cuts both ways of course, like the threads on here asking the MMORPG staff to ban the game and threads about the game from this site.
But I ask you, at what point do you put yourself so far out there? I guess it's easy for some of you, because this is anonymous forum, but I just don't get it. I love the concepts of the game as much as any of the hardcore zealot fans (after all I played Shadowbane with all of it's horrible flaws), and if the threads were about the "concepts", that would be one thing, but most of them are not. So I ask you, team Zealot, what exactly is it that makes you put yourself so far out there? You can set the sign down for a minute if using your hands will express your opinion better for you.....I'm sure you have a buddy next to you who can hold two of them for a minute while you respond.
---The middle signing off......
Comments
well said. Both sides seem to have a holier than though attitude, and either refuses to beleive that the other has valid concerns or opinions. And the stereotyping is funny, you show a little criticism, you are a hater and dont belong on the forums, show a little love and you are a fanbois. Where is the middle ground? I see less and less of the middle ground posters, even I am thinking that the community in this game and forum arent worth it anymore. I was a rabid fanbois in 02-03, game got delayed and i was a fan in 06, game delayed again and i don't trust a word Tasos et crew says, but labeled IMMEDIATELY as a hater. It's almost sad that fans of this game are so savage towards others. Course you do have your legitimate trolls, that goes without saying.
My favorite hypocrisy are those fans who shout from the rooftops, if you don't like darkfall, get out of our forums since you don't belong....yet they spill over into every other game touting the best features of XXX game is in DFO! (my favorite was one guy claimed the old school questing from EQ1 was in DFO....seriously....do you even know what darkfall is about?)
Both sides stonewall each other, both blame each other, but remember, without one, you wouldn't have the other.
The entire thing is a 2-sided coin like you have said.
In regards to the skeptics and the blantant trolls, I think the point of view of the skeptic is a valuable one because it helps keeps things in check. The trolls on the other hand are those people who sit here day-in and day-out completely bashing every aspect of the game.
The irony of the troll is that the fact that they stay here everyday speaks volumes about the genre as a whole. I believe if there was a game out worth playing that they would be spending their time on the forums for that game instead of wasting it here. They are here because there is nothing else worth following, and by trying to destroy the game before it launches, they are only creating a self fulfilling prophecy.
I also find it funny that the troll will be very selective about posting the leaked information. As a guild leader, it is my job to read as many leaks as I possibly can to make sure my guild knows exactly what they are getting into. I would wager I have read a lot more leaks then most of the people here. As an example, there was a particular negative leak a few days ago that the trolls made a lot of fuss about. Last night the same leaker updated his impression and spoke of massive improvements in many areas, but for some odd reason, those trolls aren't posting topics about that because it does not fit into their agenda.
I put myself in the camp of people who will judge the game by its merits when it releases, whenever that may be. If it comes out Feb 25th, or later, it doesn't really matter to me. I am honest about my intent to buy the game for better or worse, because many people in my guild have never played a sandbox MMO, and I am very much interested in playing one again. There is nothing better out anyways, we are growing sick of playing Call of Duty and our console games, and the money is not a big deal to me.
I do plan to write and publish a review of the game when it comes out. I like to write and this seems to be one of the hottest topics the genre has had in months. A lot of people will probably brand me a fanboi because I will probably buy the game, and that is their decision. If the game is good or bad, I will have something interesting to write about. I will have to be objective though because it is what my readers want, and my guild demands of me. I have no qualms at all about throwing anyone under the bus if they release a hot steaming pile of crap, but until it is released, I don't see the point in trying to scream about scams and impending doom.
Sure, there are a lot of people out there who are fanatical about the game. I think what you will see is that even if the game is not as good as the fanatics hope, there will be a lot more patience with this title because of the premise behind it. After AoC and WAR, this genre is in one of the darkest hours it has seen. I don't see how any single one of us benefits when a game goes down the toilet.
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I was also a fan for a long time in development, because the concepts were what I was hoping for in a new MMO. You can only support something for so long though if you are not seeing any results. Well at least, most people I guess.
Nicely said "andmiller". I completely concur with your perspective. however the one major point that really boggles my mind is the vehemence both side take regarding... ...ready for it... A GAME
At the end of the day that's all this really is, a coded programme made for our entertainment. People who get so f'ing worked up over this one way or the other really need to take a step away from the keyboard for a bit and take a gander out at what's actually happening in the real world and maybe just maybe realize that if the game succeeds or fails it's just a microscopic occurrence in the big picture of things.
just wanted to point out two topics which i sort of disagree on...nothing more
and what or where might this big picture be ebonhawk....? claiming its not real is like seeing the world in black and white....if something affects you it makes it real, characters in a book are just as real as human beings in the fact that they can affect you and touch you in the same ways. being allowed to make yer own in a fantasy world that was created by programmers is just as real. so of course people will get worked up about it, because they care and it affects them, just becuase it doesnt affect you the same way doesnt mean you should be ignorant that people do care and it affects them greatly.
Oh believe me I know, this has been brought up literally hundreds of times on these forums. Tasos is the anti-christ if you read these forums. Does it bother me that he exagerated the size of the world? Sure it does. I have also read every beta leak to date, and the while the world may not be as large as he stated, it definitely seems large enough. This game's world size has pretty much been proven to be larger than Asheron's Call, which I thought was absolutely huge, even by today's standards.
Some leakers have aleady expressed concerns about the world almost being too big as it is because of the lack of instant travel and the amount of time it takes to get to the enemy. Again, it is selective leak posting, unless they genuinely haven't read these comments, but I doubt it.
I think one thing people have to think about is that this game has been in development for a very long time. We can all agree on that. Think of all that has happened to this genre during the development cycle of this game. Let's assume that they started on this back in 2004, some people claim earlier. WoW came out in November of 2004. That means when they started on this game there was no such thing as WoW in the market. Plus think about the hype and eventual spiral that both AoC and WAR have both gone through. When you think about the big picture, I don't think Tasos could have predicted the demand for this game being what it is today because at the time, numbers like we see with WoW were unimaginable. I'm not trying to say he is infallible by any means, but at the same time I do truly think the interest is far beyond what he imagined it would be.
Hopefully this thread stays civil.
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nope, i agree with alot of what you say.....and i think Tasos and the devs are the games biggest problem, rather than the game itself. I ADORE virtual worlds (SWG and EVE have been the 2 games i love most), but the man is so shady in his dealings, that it actually turned me into a skeptic on the quality of this game (or hater if you go by other people's generalizations). But it seems like Tasos is only good for 3 things a) giving out misinformation b) stringing their customers along or c) having a superiority complex.
I do wish this game well, but i am avoiding it like the plague until i see what it is like when it actually launches, and to see once again if aventurine and it's devs are full of crap, like they have been these last few years.
I don't see anyone that steadfastly claims that Darkfall will be the best game ever. Just people that want the features that it claims to offer. Every Darkfall fan I've talked to has a grasp of reality and most expected the delay that came in January.
On the other hand I see a lot of people that post in this forum just to claim that everything about Darkfall is bad. They even go so far as to claim that a separate site reporting on the game is fake and giving false reports.
There's plenty of reason for someone who's a fan to come here, but no sane reason for someone that doesn't like the game to come here. It's not the the same on both sides.
If I don't like a band I don't go to their concert to boo them, no matter how much I think their fans are jerks.
Asdar
you must have not me originalegg and downtoearth yet.............
Couldn't agree with you more.
well said
Sure, there are undeniable fanatics out there. I agree with his concert analogy though. The skeptic is someone who has interest in the game and follows it, but will wait and see what happens. That is a person who I can definitely understand spending a lot of time in the forums gathering information to form a conclusion. The people who are outright against the basic premise of the game, they really should respectfully move on. The game is not for them, and they should be persuing something that appeals to them.
I also agree that their communication has been somewhat lackluster. Any objective person who is honest with themselves can see that. That being said, there is information out there (the kind that can't be posted here) for those who are willing to seek it out. That should not be the case. That information however does not scare me as much as it does some people.
A prime example is the argument over the games visuals and graphics. The graphics to me look fine given the type of game it is. Do people expect to see Age of Conan graphics from an indie developer? Remeber even Age of Conan's graphics came with a price, the instancing of every zone in the overworld. This game being zoneless and seamless is an entirely different beast. You can't resonably expect to see cutting edge graphics without zoning the world or any instances. I would rather have the freedom-based gameplay than the eye candy, but that's just me. All the videos I have seen of the environments look fine to me considering I won't ever have to cross a loading screen. It is a matter of personal taste.
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LMAO... I was thinking that same thing when reading the post.
I think downtoearth thinks the game will release on Jan 22nd. (yes the date has passed, but that never stopped downtoearth's enthusiasm before!)
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
quoted for truth
except the part i snipped, there's plenty of irrational fans, but still, its pointless for people to try to talk sense to them in multiple posts on multiple threads every single day freakin' day. make a point once or twice at most and then move on with your lives
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
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again i absolutely agree. Gameplay will keep you in game for a long time, while graphics wear off (or desensitize you) after a while, where you dont even see them anymore. Ok actually, one game's graphics grabbed me through end game and that was lotro, the world was just that stunning. But it's everyone's personal tastes.
Animations though, i think are a much bigger issue, one of the reasons i got bored with war was because of this. There's only so many times you can watch your character repeat the same repepetive moves over and over, unless you stick strictly into first person view.
Yes, i have been following that "other not to be named forum" and i think what killed it for me was the information on crafting. It sounds horribly implimented. And it's sad when the most info you can get is from 1 or 2 leakers on another forum, and the devs are quiet for over a month.
haha sorry mate but that's a big load of BS ...
There's some rabid fan of DF that post here claiming it's the best game to ever see the face of the earth.
And there are some who says it will PROBABLY be the worse game, or that it will never be released, etc.
Both side are technicly wrong but at least the "haters" if you want to call them that have an open minded opinion that hey, it MIGHT fail while the fans are , for the most part SURE it will suceed.
The animation issue has merit to it. I think they could be better, but it is not the sort of thing that is going to ruin the game for me. Most of the game will be in first-person anyways, so I don't think it will bother me as much as it does now. Remember, the only time you are not in first-person is when you draw a melee weapon, so most people will be in that view for the majority of their game time.
The crafting thing I am not worried about. I read that the other day, and it sounds to me to be a bug in the failure rate. This is something that is easily fixable, and I can't imagine making it into the live build given how many major patches they are doing. The devs have not been quiet for over a month to the beta testers, maybe to the rest of us. Check your source for more info regarding that.
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The animation issue has merit to it. I think they could be better, but it is not the sort of thing that is going to ruin the game for me. Most of the game will be in first-person anyways, so I don't think it will bother me as much as it does now. Remember, the only time you are not in first-person is when you draw a melee weapon, so most people will be in that view for the majority of their game time.
The crafting thing I am not worried about. I read that the other day, and it sounds to me to be a bug in the failure rate. This is something that is easily fixable, and I can't imagine making it into the live build given how many major patches they are doing. The devs have not been quiet for over a month to the beta testers, maybe to the rest of us. Check your source for more info regarding that.
yes, i apologize, when i said that the devs were quiet, i meant to the general public
Couldn't agree with you more.
LOL....you guy's are kidding right? I was prompted to create this thread based on some of the TITLES of threads alone:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/220635/So-who-will-apologize-when-DF-releases-and-is-awesome.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/221076/This-game-is-all-my-life.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/220832/I-love-darkfall.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/220769/Do-you-now-realize-how-much-you-love-Darkfall-Only-now-do-you-see-that-you-cant-live-without-the-forums.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/122605/Darkfall-The-messiah-of-true-PVP.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/214557/Darkfall-the-best-in-the-universe.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/214010/Darkfall-has-the-most-amazing-graphics-Ive-ever-seen-in-my-life.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/210718/I-just-watched-the-20-minute-gameplay-trailer-and-it-took-my-breath-away.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/210082/Darkfall-is-already-completely-finished-as-game.html
And the opposite side of the coin:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/221259/Why-is-this-game-listed-on-mmorpgcom.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/220392/Unite-against-Aventurine.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/219454/mmorpgcom-can-you-please-look-into-DF-to-protect-your-community-.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213569/Worst-Game-ever-made.html
And these are just the TITLES of threads, I could link a thousand more irrational posts. I actually couldn't find my favorite most recent one entitled "Why Darkfall will save the gaming industry". Maybe it got deleted.
I've only ever posted in this forum once before but I read it daily...not because I'm interested in the game, because I'm not. The very idea of it gives nary a flicker on my give-a-f*ck-o-meter. I come here because here, on this forum is the very wellspring of the finest e-drama.
I don't troll, I merely watch and enjoy...there are some real nutjobs on both sides of this forum. You all deserve each other.
Couldn't agree with you more.
LOL....you guy's are kidding right? I was prompted to create this thread based on some of the TITLES of threads alone:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/220635/So-who-will-apologize-when-DF-releases-and-is-awesome.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/221076/This-game-is-all-my-life.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/220832/I-love-darkfall.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/220769/Do-you-now-realize-how-much-you-love-Darkfall-Only-now-do-you-see-that-you-cant-live-without-the-forums.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/122605/Darkfall-The-messiah-of-true-PVP.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/214557/Darkfall-the-best-in-the-universe.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/214010/Darkfall-has-the-most-amazing-graphics-Ive-ever-seen-in-my-life.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/210718/I-just-watched-the-20-minute-gameplay-trailer-and-it-took-my-breath-away.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/210082/Darkfall-is-already-completely-finished-as-game.html
And the opposite side of the coin:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/221259/Why-is-this-game-listed-on-mmorpgcom.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/220392/Unite-against-Aventurine.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/219454/mmorpgcom-can-you-please-look-into-DF-to-protect-your-community-.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213569/Worst-Game-ever-made.html
And these are just the TITLES of threads, I could link a thousand more irrational posts. I actually couldn't find my favorite most recent one entitled "Why Darkfall will save the gaming industry". Maybe it got deleted.
amen, both sides are rediculous and are both EQUALLY to blame.
to chime in on a point, one thing that particularly frustrated me with the "fanbois" more than the "haters" is there were (probably still are somewhere in the depths of the pages) posts in OTHER game forums about why SWG vets should play Darkfall, or why people shouldn't be interested in earthrise or fallen earth, but instead be interested in Darkfall. Then of course with Mortal Online as well, but this one is at least the most similar to Darkfall it seems.
But why are peopling moving their soapbox to other forums? If they come to this site they've undoubtedly seen the "most recent posts" or whatever or have at least seen the similar Darkfall boasting threads that have hit the General Discussion boards too. If you traverse forums, you've heard about the game most likely, the hype & drama behind it is huge.
This was a great post. You are obviously a fan of the game, but you aren't some fanatical looney toon who cannot see some of it's flaws. I hope for the sake of the genre that this game comes out and is great, and if so I will see you in game. Until then I stay a concerned skeptic.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
Just to touch back onto the crafting thing, you may want to check some sources for new information. It looks like a certain leaker's frustration with the crafting of arrows has recently received attention (among some other things). It definitely looks like they are very quick to address some of the issues.
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