The OP is posting based on a few hours experience. Try fighting 1v1 against someone who has been playing for a while, practicing, and you'll get your ass handed to you. It takes quite a while, however, to understand the nuances that get you to that point. That, my friend, is a learning curve.
But that applies to almost all games out there. Try to play FIFA 09 against someone who has played it for months and you will probably get your ass handed to you if you have never played it before.Going by your logic all games have a high learning curve.
The game is an FPS with some RPG elements. The only skills you need are twitch skills. So if you can jump into Team Fortress 2 and start killing people, you can do the same thing in this game. The whole "dancing" back and forth and timing the swings has been around FPS games since the addition of melee weapons to the genre.
The OP is posting based on a few hours experience. Try fighting 1v1 against someone who has been playing for a while, practicing, and you'll get your ass handed to you. It takes quite a while, however, to understand the nuances that get you to that point. That, my friend, is a learning curve.
But that applies to almost all games out there.
Yes, but most people want an easy pass to the higher levels -- they don't want to work for it. Remember, regardless of the game's design, MMO players have decided that the goal of ALL MMOs is to get to the hightest level as quickly as possible. Didn't you know it's a race?
there is no learning curve,you cant use that old excuse anymore,weve seen the beta videos,we know how the combat works,we know the crafting is the same system used by wow,lotro etc. left click to attack,a basic number of abilities until youve gone through an enormous grind to unlock all the magic schools,no proper directional swings,a poor block system,no manual evasion other than wasd. eve has a learning curve,darkfall does not. really?well it seems to be the total opposite of that. already the game is flooded with macros as the skill level ups are a huge grind,as is the gathering,crafting and pretty much anythign you can mention. he who macros mana missiles for 2 hours will have a lot higher skill level than a guy who plays for 2 hours fighting mobs,wont he. its not about seeing it fail,its about the fanbase who have declared this game the most revolutionary mmo ever only for it to come out as a bare bones fps game.
This will be the last one I respond to, I figure I will never convince people.
Watching a video does absolutely NO justice to the complexity of a game, and if you're judging it based on this then either you are intentionally being lazy or have simply never played complex games on a high level. I'm not trying to be elitist here, but if you've ever played a complex game in a competitive environment, you would already know that you can't draw the sweeping conclusions you have from watching a video from a player of unknown skill level. Sometimes it takes more than a day to uncover all the features of a system. Block, though strangely implemented, works, and my guild has used it to effect in larger PVP battles.
I'm not going to defend the crafting system, it is nothing but a grind, but if there are any DF players still defending it I say shame on them.
As for fighting mobs vs. mana missle macroer...again, you're missing the point. If that is all they've done, neither of them will beat a player who has been practicing fighting other players. Also, the differences between lvl 25 mana missle and lvl 50 mana missle are not significant, in my experience. I was recently bested by my guildmate who has spent far less time grinding skills than me.
Anybody who thought that all types of grind would be removed was deluding themselves...its really not an MMO without it, it would rather be like Savage 2.
This game is revolutionary, coming from somebody who has wanted something like this for years. Why must you spend so much energy hating something that, if it doesn't live up to expectations, will have no effect on you or the games you play? You can do what you want with your time, it just seems ridiculous how much anger is spewed at this game.
Thank you OP for listing the negative sides of the game.
You'll know a good game by looking at the game world. I play a game based on how well the environment and animations are made. You'll know how dedicated the dev team is based on how they present their product. Game mechanics are easily fixed by patches. Re-designing the game world takes time. Bad presentation is always a turn-off. I'll never waste my money on a game that has been in development stages for years yet still end up like this. With all the other mmos out and in development, you'd think they'd learn a thing or two from released mmo mistakes but it seems like DF is the same DF from when we first saw the title.
To all the fans of DF, goodluck and i hope you don't end up getting frustrated with the end product.
Thank you OP for listing the negative sides of the game. You'll know a good game by looking at the game world. I play a game based on how well the environment and animations are made. You'll know how dedicated the dev team is based on how they present their product. Game mechanics are easily fixed by patches. Re-designing the game world takes time. Bad presentation is always a turn-off. I'll never waste my money on a game that has been in development stages for years yet still end up like this. With all the other mmos out and in development, you'd think they'd learn a thing or two from released mmo mistakes but it seems like DF is the same DF from when we first saw the title. To all the fans of DF, goodluck and i hope you don't end up getting frustrated with the end product.
Game mechanics can be fixed by patches?
"I play a game based on how well the environment and animations are made."
You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about kid
Thank you OP for listing the negative sides of the game. You'll know a good game by looking at the game world. I play a game based on how well the environment and animations are made. You'll know how dedicated the dev team is based on how they present their product. Game mechanics are easily fixed by patches. Re-designing the game world takes time. Bad presentation is always a turn-off. I'll never waste my money on a game that has been in development stages for years yet still end up like this. With all the other mmos out and in development, you'd think they'd learn a thing or two from released mmo mistakes but it seems like DF is the same DF from when we first saw the title. To all the fans of DF, goodluck and i hope you don't end up getting frustrated with the end product.
Game mechanics can be fixed by patches?
"I play a game based on how well the environment and animations are made."
You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about kid
stick with AoC
another member of the stubborn fan community...
"kid"? e-thug maybe?
I've been watching this site since 2003 and played games from AO to WoW (even tried the older mmos) and it's the same thing over. Promising title with "revolutionary" gameplay failed because of lackluster presentation, player manipulation, and the stubborn fan base. Craftmanship is 90% of a product and the identity of the PUBLISHER. 10% is the "revolutionary" idea and the identity of the GAME.
WoW(eww) vs DF: Based on overall forum posts about how well DF is doing, WoW is still miles and miles better than DF---and that's not a good thing considering WoW is meh.
Stop admiring positive sides of the game because they bring zero lessons. Geeze "kid".
and i'm bad at english because it's not really my native language and i can't pretty much say what i'm trying to point out (lack of better vocabulary) but here's my last attempt of pointing out what i'm trying to get at:
there is no learning curve,you cant use that old excuse anymore,weve seen the beta videos,we know how the combat works,we know the crafting is the same system used by wow,lotro etc. left click to attack,a basic number of abilities until youve gone through an enormous grind to unlock all the magic schools,no proper directional swings,a poor block system,no manual evasion other than wasd. eve has a learning curve,darkfall does not. really?well it seems to be the total opposite of that. already the game is flooded with macros as the skill level ups are a huge grind,as is the gathering,crafting and pretty much anythign you can mention. he who macros mana missiles for 2 hours will have a lot higher skill level than a guy who plays for 2 hours fighting mobs,wont he. its not about seeing it fail,its about the fanbase who have declared this game the most revolutionary mmo ever only for it to come out as a bare bones fps game.
This will be the last one I respond to, I figure I will never convince people.
Watching a video does absolutely NO justice to the complexity of a game, and if you're judging it based on this then either you are intentionally being lazy or have simply never played complex games on a high level. I'm not trying to be elitist here, but if you've ever played a complex game in a competitive environment, you would already know that you can't draw the sweeping conclusions you have from watching a video from a player of unknown skill level. Sometimes it takes more than a day to uncover all the features of a system. Block, though strangely implemented, works, and my guild has used it to effect in larger PVP battles.
I'm not going to defend the crafting system, it is nothing but a grind, but if there are any DF players still defending it I say shame on them.
As for fighting mobs vs. mana missle macroer...again, you're missing the point. If that is all they've done, neither of them will beat a player who has been practicing fighting other players. Also, the differences between lvl 25 mana missle and lvl 50 mana missle are not significant, in my experience. I was recently bested by my guildmate who has spent far less time grinding skills than me.
Anybody who thought that all types of grind would be removed was deluding themselves...its really not an MMO without it, it would rather be like Savage 2.
This game is revolutionary, coming from somebody who has wanted something like this for years. Why must you spend so much energy hating something that, if it doesn't live up to expectations, will have no effect on you or the games you play? You can do what you want with your time, it just seems ridiculous how much anger is spewed at this game.
Thats pretty much what it comes down to..practice,as youve said in the red part. Thats not complexity. By that notion you might as well say counterstrike is complex too. 'Competitive' gaming has nothing to do with it at all, the combat system is more simplified that mount and blade and savage 2,which doesnt say a lot for it really considering both of those games are easily picked up and can be played well with..thats right,practice. So there is no high learning curve,just a case of spending more time practicing and being sure to grind up your skills.
If mana missiles has little difference between 25 and 50,exactly what kind of freedom of choice is there? Do we all run around with the same skills maxed out? Whats the point of having a skill system that offers little difference between levels?
Thank you OP for listing the negative sides of the game. You'll know a good game by looking at the game world. I play a game based on how well the environment and animations are made. You'll know how dedicated the dev team is based on how they present their product. Game mechanics are easily fixed by patches. Re-designing the game world takes time. Bad presentation is always a turn-off. I'll never waste my money on a game that has been in development stages for years yet still end up like this. With all the other mmos out and in development, you'd think they'd learn a thing or two from released mmo mistakes but it seems like DF is the same DF from when we first saw the title. To all the fans of DF, goodluck and i hope you don't end up getting frustrated with the end product.
Game mechanics can be fixed by patches?
"I play a game based on how well the environment and animations are made."
You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about kid
stick with AoC
another member of the stubborn fan community...
"kid"? e-thug maybe?
I've been watching this site since 2003 and played games from AO to WoW (even tried the older mmos) and it's the same thing over. Promising title with "revolutionary" gameplay failed because of lackluster presentation, player manipulation, and the stubborn fan base. Craftmanship is 90% of a product and the identity of the PUBLISHER. 10% is the "revolutionary" idea and the identity of the GAME.
WoW(eww) vs DF: Based on overall forum posts about how well DF is doing, WoW is still miles and miles better than DF---and that's not a good thing considering WoW is meh.
Stop admiring positive sides of the game because they bring zero lessons. Geeze "kid".
and i'm bad at english because it's not really my native language and i can't pretty much say what i'm trying to point out (lack of better vocabulary) but here's my last attempt of pointing out what i'm trying to get at:
I base my mmos on,
the samurai sword, function and craftmanship
well my personal opinion is that you are everything that's wrong with the mmo/game industry these days
you say: "presentation (graphics) and NOT gameplay (since it can be improved in patches) is the most important thing"
and I say you are destroying what makes mmorpgs something special
Very limited no different than WoW in terms of customization. limited color palette, would have expected allot more considering the amount of dev time thats gone into DF. Bulky and not very appealing avatar skin, looks poorly boned.
Starting Town/City:
Hardly any NPC's and the few that are around seem limited and stale. poorly rendered doors and barrels. general atmosphere seems empty. Empty quests, no sense of accomplishment. Poor NPC quest/conversation interface, not very intuitive.
Graphics:
Ground and skyboxes are well textured, however other elements in the world seem out of place due to color hue and poorly rendered texture. Lots of pathing issues and obstructions. Avatar texture is horrible and seems out of place. Avatar animation is also horrible, movement is not fluid and seems out of sync.
Gameplay:
Character, inventory, journal, group and guild interfaces are kludgy to say the least, most of the time its seems your fighting just to accomplish something as simple and searching for an items in your inventory or looking up a friend or guild mate. Ganking - with the limited number of players on the server it was very apparent the overall goal of every single tween and kiddie booper is to gank every single player thats alone or already fighting an NPC.
Jumping players already in mid fight with mobs seems common Jumping players turning in a quest in rural areas seems common
Combat - the key mapping interface along with movement made things kludgy and not fluid, most of it felt out of place and inconsistent.
Community:
One of the worse bar none, most of the people tend to speak in l33t talk, so its always the same chat ... i ownz0r Yo ... i will keelz0r Yo ... Yo suckz0rz Not much help between players, and new players get consistently harassed in order for a gank squad to take advantage of. Many players feel a sense of accomplishment after 10 of them gank a single player unable to even put up much of a fight, and yet they still feel they did ... supa dupa uberz0rz PvP skillz0rz ..
This is currently plaguing the game in general, having lots of childish players in a gank squad killing single targets makes them feel as if they accomplished something special and makes them think they have great PvP skills.
Conclusion:
This game will be very niche with a very small subscriber base, this will translate to as the game gets older and the community remains the same becoming stale, players will end up fighting the same guilds, gank squads and players as a recycled community. This game has LOTS of bugs for a game that claimed to be "Launch Ready", not to mention the already in place speed hacks that will become very apparent once the game goes live! Personally, im glad i had a chance to test/play DF as it further solidifies my choice to never play this game again.
You are definitely a fanboi - very biased opinion considering you have only mentioned the best things in the game...
Very limited no different than WoW in terms of customization. limited color palette, would have expected allot more considering the amount of dev time thats gone into DF. Bulky and not very appealing avatar skin, looks poorly boned.
Starting Town/City:
Hardly any NPC's and the few that are around seem limited and stale. poorly rendered doors and barrels. general atmosphere seems empty. Empty quests, no sense of accomplishment. Poor NPC quest/conversation interface, not very intuitive.
Graphics:
Ground and skyboxes are well textured, however other elements in the world seem out of place due to color hue and poorly rendered texture. Lots of pathing issues and obstructions. Avatar texture is horrible and seems out of place. Avatar animation is also horrible, movement is not fluid and seems out of sync.
Gameplay:
Character, inventory, journal, group and guild interfaces are kludgy to say the least, most of the time its seems your fighting just to accomplish something as simple and searching for an items in your inventory or looking up a friend or guild mate. Ganking - with the limited number of players on the server it was very apparent the overall goal of every single tween and kiddie booper is to gank every single player thats alone or already fighting an NPC.
Jumping players already in mid fight with mobs seems common Jumping players turning in a quest in rural areas seems common
Combat - the key mapping interface along with movement made things kludgy and not fluid, most of it felt out of place and inconsistent.
Community:
One of the worse bar none, most of the people tend to speak in l33t talk, so its always the same chat ... i ownz0r Yo ... i will keelz0r Yo ... Yo suckz0rz Not much help between players, and new players get consistently harassed in order for a gank squad to take advantage of. Many players feel a sense of accomplishment after 10 of them gank a single player unable to even put up much of a fight, and yet they still feel they did ... supa dupa uberz0rz PvP skillz0rz ..
This is currently plaguing the game in general, having lots of childish players in a gank squad killing single targets makes them feel as if they accomplished something special and makes them think they have great PvP skills.
Conclusion:
This game will be very niche with a very small subscriber base, this will translate to as the game gets older and the community remains the same becoming stale, players will end up fighting the same guilds, gank squads and players as a recycled community. This game has LOTS of bugs for a game that claimed to be "Launch Ready", not to mention the already in place speed hacks that will become very apparent once the game goes live! Personally, im glad i had a chance to test/play DF as it further solidifies my choice to never play this game again.
Shocking . If you expected a mature player base looking to do stuff other then screw over there fellow man because they will never touch the opisite sex then you must be one of them. This game was chocked full of fail from the get go. I give it 6 months before they shut down the servers.
"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". No one can stop anyone from pursuing happiness, but life and liberty are said to only exist if they are deliberately sought and paid for".
Examples of games with a high learning curve are very realistic flight simulators. They have truckloads of controls (manuals with hundreds of pages), and people spend a good time trying to become mediocre at playing. Games with this level of complexity are rare nowadays, people want accessible games.
I don't really know if you are a troll or not, but it definitely seems you have an agenda. Its fine if you don't like a game thats fine. Don't play. However, when you have a list like that, it definitely says that you went in looking for fault.
Also, there is a thing to be said for niche games. They play to a crowd that doesn't want to play the games that appeal to the greatest audience. In this case, the niche that wants to gank and gank away. If it makes them happy why do you care?? I never got the because I don't like it, you shouldn't either (and of course the I like the game, so every other game is crap).
Examples of games with a high learning curve are very realistic flight simulators. They have truckloads of controls (manuals with hundreds of pages), and people spend a good time trying to become mediocre at playing. Games with this level of complexity are rare nowadays, people want accessible games.
Indeed. MS Flight Sim was one of the best programs out there of its kind in its price range. I am actually multi-engine instrument rated IRL (which means yes, given enough time to get back into the groove, I can fly airplanes with more than one engine through complete non-visibility - clouds/fogs/whatever - only by looking at the instruments and manipulating the controls).
When I was doing my instrument training, I used MSFS at home with all the reality settings on. It was a great help, because everything is laid out as in the real cockpit - however I can see that it would be totally frustrating to any "normal" person because unless you know what you're doing you CANNOT.. simply CANNOT succeed...
So the saddest news to me this year was that MS is closing the FlightSim department. Anyone remotely interested in flight should grab a copy of the latest version now. I found it more user-friendly than the others out there, although a few others being independently developed have some great points as well.
--
DF on the other hand looks like a button spam fest whether's its your skillbar, direction keys, or mouse button - it's just twitch stuff. Suddenly WoW will be completely empty of PVP geared Rogues! oh noez..
--
How dare you present him with logic! Don't you understand? He fights epic fights, in epic games, with epic toons....eats epic food and takes epic dumps! He has more e..pic..icity...ness in his little finger than you have in your whole unepic body! - ChicagoCub
Thank you OP for listing the negative sides of the game. You'll know a good game by looking at the game world. I play a game based on how well the environment and animations are made. You'll know how dedicated the dev team is based on how they present their product. Game mechanics are easily fixed by patches. Re-designing the game world takes time. Bad presentation is always a turn-off. I'll never waste my money on a game that has been in development stages for years yet still end up like this. With all the other mmos out and in development, you'd think they'd learn a thing or two from released mmo mistakes but it seems like DF is the same DF from when we first saw the title. To all the fans of DF, goodluck and i hope you don't end up getting frustrated with the end product.
Game mechanics can be fixed by patches?
"I play a game based on how well the environment and animations are made."
You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about kid
stick with AoC
another member of the stubborn fan community...
"kid"? e-thug maybe?
I've been watching this site since 2003 and played games from AO to WoW (even tried the older mmos) and it's the same thing over. Promising title with "revolutionary" gameplay failed because of lackluster presentation, player manipulation, and the stubborn fan base. Craftmanship is 90% of a product and the identity of the PUBLISHER. 10% is the "revolutionary" idea and the identity of the GAME.
WoW(eww) vs DF: Based on overall forum posts about how well DF is doing, WoW is still miles and miles better than DF---and that's not a good thing considering WoW is meh.
Stop admiring positive sides of the game because they bring zero lessons. Geeze "kid".
and i'm bad at english because it's not really my native language and i can't pretty much say what i'm trying to point out (lack of better vocabulary) but here's my last attempt of pointing out what i'm trying to get at:
I base my mmos on,
the samurai sword, function and craftmanship
well my personal opinion is that you are everything that's wrong with the mmo/game industry these days
you say: "presentation (graphics) and NOT gameplay (since it can be improved in patches) is the most important thing"
and I say you are destroying what makes mmorpgs something special
just my personal opinion, dont get offended
non taken
if you still think gameplay > presentation, then i think you're one of the many who's missing the overall picture.
The list of gameplay advances has always existed but the publishers get carried away by what forum people(players) have been saying. They forget to start with a good presentation(story/world) and follow up with a solid not-too-realistic and buttload of fun gameplay (it's a fantasy game in the first place). Gameplay starts with the world and how involved the player gets to his avatar and it's surrounding.
Most players now want to play an mmoActionGame not an mmorpg so I guess super-square buildings, super-flat land, and random doodads is fine as long as they can swing weapons and wave hands with sparklies...
It's the same crap in every MMORPG and why I avoid FFA PVP servers like the plague. Eventho I am a PVP fanatic myself.
Difference is, that in most MMORPG's you can just roll a different server type to escape these asshats.
In Darkfall you cannot, as it's the only ruleset server they have.
So in the end, the good decent players will leave the game, and all that is left is a bunch of asshats ganking eachother and smack talking eachother in chat about how L337 it all is and how much SKILLZ they have and how everyone else SUCKZ.
This game is going to be almost exactly like GUNZ Online. The '1337 h4xx0rs' are going to find some glitch to exploit the hell out of and anyone who refuses to glitch will get their ass handed to them and get laughed at for being such a 'nub'. All so called 'skill' will be out the window, but they'll call glitching a 'skill' so they can still come onto the forums and go on and on about how 1337 DF is and how they chased out all of the 'carebears' like they said they would.
DF fanbois are going to hold onto this game like it was the holy grail even if it's a complete piece of shit.
To the OP: Good post. Yes it's a little on the negative side. But it is well written.
I concur.
Although, I've been waiting to be accepted in beta and never got the chance. I still would like to try this out and see it for myself. No harm, no foul in trying.
Yea, those so called "hardcore pvp players" will tell you to stay away from the game because you cant handle the ruleset. Well, its true i cant handle those kids running around killing ppl who are fighting mobs, camping and ganking all the time. Enjoy your 1st month in this game because after this month you wont find many ppl to loot
Even though I'm still in a waiting mode on this game, all you need to do is have a look at the DF official forums to find out what kind of people will be playing this game. Big turnoff. If you thought the WoW community was bad......
Unfortunately for DF the community the game is attracting is horrible, Eve-Online tends to be abit on the 'ellitest' side yet most of the players are mature in nature, WoW tends to be very childish and reflects largely on the age of the person your trying to have a conversation with.
But DF takes the cake, its as almost all the worst griefers of AoC, WAR, UO, Eve, WoW, LoTR, EQ2, AC, AO and any other MMO that has PvP have come to DF and act out the qualities of full loot PvP brings out of players and regress in age.
I have said it before, and ill say it again. DF's downfall will be the community they harbor.
I agree with your sentiments regarding community. They have skimped on some fo the features that would make other sorts of players want to play (though these features may be implemented later). However, your review after one day of play was laughable.
* One of the worse bar none, most of the people tend to speak in l33t talk, so its always the same chat ... i ownz0r Yo ... i will keelz0r Yo ... Yo suckz0rz
* Not much help between players, and new players get consistently harassed in order for a gank squad to take advantage of.
* Many players feel a sense of accomplishment after 10 of them gank a single player unable to even put up much of a fight, and yet they still feel they did ... supa dupa uberz0rz PvP skillz0rz ..
o This is currently plaguing the game in general, having lots of childish players in a gank squad killing single targets makes them feel as if they accomplished something special and makes them think they have great PvP skills."
But those are the "wolves" preying on the sheep...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
"Community: * One of the worse bar none, most of the people tend to speak in l33t talk, so its always the same chat ... i ownz0r Yo ... i will keelz0r Yo ... Yo suckz0rz
* Not much help between players, and new players get consistently harassed in order for a gank squad to take advantage of.
* Many players feel a sense of accomplishment after 10 of them gank a single player unable to even put up much of a fight, and yet they still feel they did ... supa dupa uberz0rz PvP skillz0rz ..
o This is currently plaguing the game in general, having lots of childish players in a gank squad killing single targets makes them feel as if they accomplished something special and makes them think they have great PvP skills."
But those are the "wolves" preying on the sheep...
Comments
The OP is posting based on a few hours experience. Try fighting 1v1 against someone who has been playing for a while, practicing, and you'll get your ass handed to you. It takes quite a while, however, to understand the nuances that get you to that point. That, my friend, is a learning curve.
But that applies to almost all games out there. Try to play FIFA 09 against someone who has played it for months and you will probably get your ass handed to you if you have never played it before.Going by your logic all games have a high learning curve.
The game is an FPS with some RPG elements. The only skills you need are twitch skills. So if you can jump into Team Fortress 2 and start killing people, you can do the same thing in this game. The whole "dancing" back and forth and timing the swings has been around FPS games since the addition of melee weapons to the genre.
The OP is posting based on a few hours experience. Try fighting 1v1 against someone who has been playing for a while, practicing, and you'll get your ass handed to you. It takes quite a while, however, to understand the nuances that get you to that point. That, my friend, is a learning curve.
But that applies to almost all games out there.
Yes, but most people want an easy pass to the higher levels -- they don't want to work for it. Remember, regardless of the game's design, MMO players have decided that the goal of ALL MMOs is to get to the hightest level as quickly as possible. Didn't you know it's a race?
they have almost as many subs as aoc
This will be the last one I respond to, I figure I will never convince people.
Watching a video does absolutely NO justice to the complexity of a game, and if you're judging it based on this then either you are intentionally being lazy or have simply never played complex games on a high level. I'm not trying to be elitist here, but if you've ever played a complex game in a competitive environment, you would already know that you can't draw the sweeping conclusions you have from watching a video from a player of unknown skill level. Sometimes it takes more than a day to uncover all the features of a system. Block, though strangely implemented, works, and my guild has used it to effect in larger PVP battles.
I'm not going to defend the crafting system, it is nothing but a grind, but if there are any DF players still defending it I say shame on them.
As for fighting mobs vs. mana missle macroer...again, you're missing the point. If that is all they've done, neither of them will beat a player who has been practicing fighting other players. Also, the differences between lvl 25 mana missle and lvl 50 mana missle are not significant, in my experience. I was recently bested by my guildmate who has spent far less time grinding skills than me.
Anybody who thought that all types of grind would be removed was deluding themselves...its really not an MMO without it, it would rather be like Savage 2.
This game is revolutionary, coming from somebody who has wanted something like this for years. Why must you spend so much energy hating something that, if it doesn't live up to expectations, will have no effect on you or the games you play? You can do what you want with your time, it just seems ridiculous how much anger is spewed at this game.
Thank you OP for listing the negative sides of the game.
You'll know a good game by looking at the game world. I play a game based on how well the environment and animations are made. You'll know how dedicated the dev team is based on how they present their product. Game mechanics are easily fixed by patches. Re-designing the game world takes time. Bad presentation is always a turn-off. I'll never waste my money on a game that has been in development stages for years yet still end up like this. With all the other mmos out and in development, you'd think they'd learn a thing or two from released mmo mistakes but it seems like DF is the same DF from when we first saw the title.
To all the fans of DF, goodluck and i hope you don't end up getting frustrated with the end product.
Game mechanics can be fixed by patches?
"I play a game based on how well the environment and animations are made."
You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about kid
stick with AoC
Game mechanics can be fixed by patches?
"I play a game based on how well the environment and animations are made."
You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about kid
stick with AoC
another member of the stubborn fan community...
"kid"? e-thug maybe?
I've been watching this site since 2003 and played games from AO to WoW (even tried the older mmos) and it's the same thing over. Promising title with "revolutionary" gameplay failed because of lackluster presentation, player manipulation, and the stubborn fan base. Craftmanship is 90% of a product and the identity of the PUBLISHER. 10% is the "revolutionary" idea and the identity of the GAME.
WoW(eww) vs DF: Based on overall forum posts about how well DF is doing, WoW is still miles and miles better than DF---and that's not a good thing considering WoW is meh.
Stop admiring positive sides of the game because they bring zero lessons. Geeze "kid".
and i'm bad at english because it's not really my native language and i can't pretty much say what i'm trying to point out (lack of better vocabulary) but here's my last attempt of pointing out what i'm trying to get at:
I base my mmos on,
the samurai sword, function and craftmanship
This will be the last one I respond to, I figure I will never convince people.
Watching a video does absolutely NO justice to the complexity of a game, and if you're judging it based on this then either you are intentionally being lazy or have simply never played complex games on a high level. I'm not trying to be elitist here, but if you've ever played a complex game in a competitive environment, you would already know that you can't draw the sweeping conclusions you have from watching a video from a player of unknown skill level. Sometimes it takes more than a day to uncover all the features of a system. Block, though strangely implemented, works, and my guild has used it to effect in larger PVP battles.
I'm not going to defend the crafting system, it is nothing but a grind, but if there are any DF players still defending it I say shame on them.
As for fighting mobs vs. mana missle macroer...again, you're missing the point. If that is all they've done, neither of them will beat a player who has been practicing fighting other players. Also, the differences between lvl 25 mana missle and lvl 50 mana missle are not significant, in my experience. I was recently bested by my guildmate who has spent far less time grinding skills than me.
Anybody who thought that all types of grind would be removed was deluding themselves...its really not an MMO without it, it would rather be like Savage 2.
This game is revolutionary, coming from somebody who has wanted something like this for years. Why must you spend so much energy hating something that, if it doesn't live up to expectations, will have no effect on you or the games you play? You can do what you want with your time, it just seems ridiculous how much anger is spewed at this game.
Thats pretty much what it comes down to..practice,as youve said in the red part. Thats not complexity. By that notion you might as well say counterstrike is complex too. 'Competitive' gaming has nothing to do with it at all, the combat system is more simplified that mount and blade and savage 2,which doesnt say a lot for it really considering both of those games are easily picked up and can be played well with..thats right,practice. So there is no high learning curve,just a case of spending more time practicing and being sure to grind up your skills.
If mana missiles has little difference between 25 and 50,exactly what kind of freedom of choice is there? Do we all run around with the same skills maxed out? Whats the point of having a skill system that offers little difference between levels?
Game mechanics can be fixed by patches?
"I play a game based on how well the environment and animations are made."
You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about kid
stick with AoC
another member of the stubborn fan community...
"kid"? e-thug maybe?
I've been watching this site since 2003 and played games from AO to WoW (even tried the older mmos) and it's the same thing over. Promising title with "revolutionary" gameplay failed because of lackluster presentation, player manipulation, and the stubborn fan base. Craftmanship is 90% of a product and the identity of the PUBLISHER. 10% is the "revolutionary" idea and the identity of the GAME.
WoW(eww) vs DF: Based on overall forum posts about how well DF is doing, WoW is still miles and miles better than DF---and that's not a good thing considering WoW is meh.
Stop admiring positive sides of the game because they bring zero lessons. Geeze "kid".
and i'm bad at english because it's not really my native language and i can't pretty much say what i'm trying to point out (lack of better vocabulary) but here's my last attempt of pointing out what i'm trying to get at:
I base my mmos on,
the samurai sword, function and craftmanship
well my personal opinion is that you are everything that's wrong with the mmo/game industry these days
you say: "presentation (graphics) and NOT gameplay (since it can be improved in patches) is the most important thing"
and I say you are destroying what makes mmorpgs something special
just my personal opinion, dont get offended
You are definitely a fanboi - very biased opinion considering you have only mentioned the best things in the game...
Shocking . If you expected a mature player base looking to do stuff other then screw over there fellow man because they will never touch the opisite sex then you must be one of them. This game was chocked full of fail from the get go. I give it 6 months before they shut down the servers.
"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". No one can stop anyone from pursuing happiness, but life and liberty are said to only exist if they are deliberately sought and paid for".
Examples of games with a high learning curve are very realistic flight simulators. They have truckloads of controls (manuals with hundreds of pages), and people spend a good time trying to become mediocre at playing. Games with this level of complexity are rare nowadays, people want accessible games.
I don't really know if you are a troll or not, but it definitely seems you have an agenda. Its fine if you don't like a game thats fine. Don't play. However, when you have a list like that, it definitely says that you went in looking for fault.
Also, there is a thing to be said for niche games. They play to a crowd that doesn't want to play the games that appeal to the greatest audience. In this case, the niche that wants to gank and gank away. If it makes them happy why do you care?? I never got the because I don't like it, you shouldn't either (and of course the I like the game, so every other game is crap).
I self identify as a monkey.
Indeed. MS Flight Sim was one of the best programs out there of its kind in its price range. I am actually multi-engine instrument rated IRL (which means yes, given enough time to get back into the groove, I can fly airplanes with more than one engine through complete non-visibility - clouds/fogs/whatever - only by looking at the instruments and manipulating the controls).
When I was doing my instrument training, I used MSFS at home with all the reality settings on. It was a great help, because everything is laid out as in the real cockpit - however I can see that it would be totally frustrating to any "normal" person because unless you know what you're doing you CANNOT.. simply CANNOT succeed...
So the saddest news to me this year was that MS is closing the FlightSim department. Anyone remotely interested in flight should grab a copy of the latest version now. I found it more user-friendly than the others out there, although a few others being independently developed have some great points as well.
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DF on the other hand looks like a button spam fest whether's its your skillbar, direction keys, or mouse button - it's just twitch stuff. Suddenly WoW will be completely empty of PVP geared Rogues! oh noez..
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How dare you present him with logic! Don't you understand? He fights epic fights, in epic games, with epic toons....eats epic food and takes epic dumps! He has more e..pic..icity...ness in his little finger than you have in your whole unepic body! - ChicagoCub
Game mechanics can be fixed by patches?
"I play a game based on how well the environment and animations are made."
You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about kid
stick with AoC
another member of the stubborn fan community...
"kid"? e-thug maybe?
I've been watching this site since 2003 and played games from AO to WoW (even tried the older mmos) and it's the same thing over. Promising title with "revolutionary" gameplay failed because of lackluster presentation, player manipulation, and the stubborn fan base. Craftmanship is 90% of a product and the identity of the PUBLISHER. 10% is the "revolutionary" idea and the identity of the GAME.
WoW(eww) vs DF: Based on overall forum posts about how well DF is doing, WoW is still miles and miles better than DF---and that's not a good thing considering WoW is meh.
Stop admiring positive sides of the game because they bring zero lessons. Geeze "kid".
and i'm bad at english because it's not really my native language and i can't pretty much say what i'm trying to point out (lack of better vocabulary) but here's my last attempt of pointing out what i'm trying to get at:
I base my mmos on,
the samurai sword, function and craftmanship
well my personal opinion is that you are everything that's wrong with the mmo/game industry these days
you say: "presentation (graphics) and NOT gameplay (since it can be improved in patches) is the most important thing"
and I say you are destroying what makes mmorpgs something special
just my personal opinion, dont get offended
non taken
if you still think gameplay > presentation, then i think you're one of the many who's missing the overall picture.
The list of gameplay advances has always existed but the publishers get carried away by what forum people(players) have been saying. They forget to start with a good presentation(story/world) and follow up with a solid not-too-realistic and buttload of fun gameplay (it's a fantasy game in the first place). Gameplay starts with the world and how involved the player gets to his avatar and it's surrounding.
Most players now want to play an mmoActionGame not an mmorpg so I guess super-square buildings, super-flat land, and random doodads is fine as long as they can swing weapons and wave hands with sparklies...
This game is going to be almost exactly like GUNZ Online. The '1337 h4xx0rs' are going to find some glitch to exploit the hell out of and anyone who refuses to glitch will get their ass handed to them and get laughed at for being such a 'nub'. All so called 'skill' will be out the window, but they'll call glitching a 'skill' so they can still come onto the forums and go on and on about how 1337 DF is and how they chased out all of the 'carebears' like they said they would.
DF fanbois are going to hold onto this game like it was the holy grail even if it's a complete piece of shit.
totally agree
I concur.
Although, I've been waiting to be accepted in beta and never got the chance. I still would like to try this out and see it for myself. No harm, no foul in trying.
Yea, those so called "hardcore pvp players" will tell you to stay away from the game because you cant handle the ruleset. Well, its true i cant handle those kids running around killing ppl who are fighting mobs, camping and ganking all the time. Enjoy your 1st month in this game because after this month you wont find many ppl to loot
He that lives upon Hope dies farting.
Unfortunately for DF the community the game is attracting is horrible, Eve-Online tends to be abit on the 'ellitest' side yet most of the players are mature in nature, WoW tends to be very childish and reflects largely on the age of the person your trying to have a conversation with.
But DF takes the cake, its as almost all the worst griefers of AoC, WAR, UO, Eve, WoW, LoTR, EQ2, AC, AO and any other MMO that has PvP have come to DF and act out the qualities of full loot PvP brings out of players and regress in age.
I have said it before, and ill say it again. DF's downfall will be the community they harbor.
I agree with your sentiments regarding community. They have skimped on some fo the features that would make other sorts of players want to play (though these features may be implemented later). However, your review after one day of play was laughable.
THanks to the op.
What are the differences between DFO and WWIIONLINE, 2 niche PVP games ?
1° The community. WWIIONLINE"s cty is great and mature. Really cool and nice
2° The customer service. WWIIONLINE is a professionnal product, sold by pros. You can try and buy it without no doubt .
3° The product: WWIIONLINE is a tactical/strategical game, not only a stupid FPS/ganking game.
WWIIONLINE is a great game, PVPers should try it. Not for childs
"Community:
* One of the worse bar none, most of the people tend to speak in l33t talk, so its always the same chat ... i ownz0r Yo ... i will keelz0r Yo ... Yo suckz0rz
* Not much help between players, and new players get consistently harassed in order for a gank squad to take advantage of.
* Many players feel a sense of accomplishment after 10 of them gank a single player unable to even put up much of a fight, and yet they still feel they did ... supa dupa uberz0rz PvP skillz0rz ..
o This is currently plaguing the game in general, having lots of childish players in a gank squad killing single targets makes them feel as if they accomplished something special and makes them think they have great PvP skills."
But those are the "wolves" preying on the sheep...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Actually its the sheep masquerading as wolves..
If people would stop pro-creating, we wouldn't have these issues in MMOs.
... then again, we wouldn't have much longevity as a race either...