P.S. its an indy gaming company you have to expect some of these issues.
NO this is the problem. WE SHOULD NOT have to expect these issues. Game developers used to take pride in releasing their games bug free. I can't believe what has happened to the community. It's like everyone has age of conan syndrome now.
qft
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
It's too bad too, if they fixed up the combat to be more fun the game world is really nice. It's too bad the entire game is a clusterfuck meant for zerging guilds with shitty city building.
Honestly I think Shadowbane is better right now, than DF is.
combat is fun needs alil work here and there but i generally have fun with it. i think they need to slow down the pace alil more maybe just a lil faster than what mount and blade has. and make sprint 5-10 sec burst
They will notify us when they are able to get more people into their game server, because currently, it can only handle roughly 4k people..!
no currently there account managemeant system is charging people but not activating accounts its randemly worked. im sure they have it fixed where it wont do it again but some peole havent gotten there pre orders even yet because here account managmeant fucked up. thsi is what holding them back the most
P.S. its an indy gaming company you have to expect some of these issues.
NO this is the problem. WE SHOULD NOT have to expect these issues. Game developers used to take pride in releasing their games bug free. I can't believe what has happened to the community. It's like everyone has age of conan syndrome now.
AGREED! We should NOT give excuses to ANY company, indy or not, for releasing unplayable games. If we do, we encourage them to make more of the same unfinished crap. NO MORE CRAP!!!
P.S. its an indy gaming company you have to expect some of these issues.
NO this is the problem. WE SHOULD NOT have to expect these issues. Game developers used to take pride in releasing their games bug free. I can't believe what has happened to the community. It's like everyone has age of conan syndrome now.
AGREED! We should NOT give excuses to ANY company, indy or not, for releasing unplayable games. If we do, we encourage them to make more of the same unfinished crap. NO MORE CRAP!!!
exactly, at this point there is no longer any doubt, and all you people who screamed "i am tired of beta testing games:....guess what....this is now what you are doing AND accepting it.
Yup.
That's one of the things that is my litmus test on how much credibility the posters have here. Has their "standards" stayed the same? Have they adusted their expectations to meet what was delivered? Some will know what I mean... others can do a bit of checking back at old posts.
Let's go back 4-6 months...
Remember the posts about how Aventurine was different? They were "above" doing pre-orders. In fact, they believed in their game so much they were going to let everyone try it for free before buying it.
Remember the posts about how they were going to show the MMO genre how to do a Release right?
Remember the posts about how each delay was even better for the players because it would result in a such a smooth and polished product?
Remember the posts that told the skeptics to be quiet with their doubts as to the truthfulness of Tasos' statements?
Remember the posts that told the skeptics to not question the Beta testing process of Aventurine... they knew better than us.
Remember the posts that told the skeptics how DarkFall will change the MMO genre forever!
So, now here we are.
Yes, DarkFall did Release on Feb. 25th, 2009...
Very few would say it was in fact Ready to do so.
Very few would say it is indeed the smooth, polished game that we were told would be the result of the many delays.
Very few would now say... "Tasos is the most honest developer ever!" "Tasos has never lied!"
Very few would now say... "They know what they are doing with Beta & Stress Testing... Trust them!"
Very few would now say... DarkFall will change the MMO genre.
So yeah, I have no problem with accepting that some MMOs (no not all of them) are released in pretty rough shape and need a lot of work to get them to a more polished state.
However, for the posters that were so adamant that Aventurine was different, and that we would see what a "Proper" MMO Release would look like with DarkFall:
I hope you now see why some of us were in fact SKEPTICAL about Tasos' statements, even though we were told we just needed to "Trust him".
I hope you now see why we said to expect what has in fact now been delivered, even though we were told it would be "finished".
I hope you now see why we said there would be problems with the way Aventurine was going about their testing process, even though we were told to "Trust them".
Do I think it will change how the next round of "fanboy" vs. skeptic vs. "troll" debates will go for the next MMO? Nope.
Edit: Yes, DarkFall is playable. That is a far cry from the hype that was posted from some of it's ardent supporters a few months back though. It does closely match the state that quite a few skeptics predicted it would be at though.
Hopefully Aventurine will get the bugs and exploits sorted out, get the rest of the features working, and ramp up to adding a few more servers.
As it stands now... they are the smallest P2P MMO to ever Release.
Yeah I'm getting sick of the "indie" company excuse. If they want to play with the big boys they need to play and act like the big boys. Is a small business owner given slack because their prices aren't as cheap as a big-box store? No they're not and that's why they are going out of business. Should we give the small business owner some slack? I know I don't. If they want my money they have to be as competitive. It's really that simple. Edit: Damn that's sounds harsh sorry to all the small business owners out there. I believe in the American dream and I get why 80% of businesses are small businesses but I also want the best bang for my buck.
I buy from small businesses as much as possible, and will even pay a little more for their products, IF: they provide me with the personalized service that the big box stores can't provide. Have you ever bought something and had questions on how to use it? If you bought it from a big box store, try going in and asking someone (assuming you can find someone that isn't busy trying to sell something to another customer [are you listening Best Buy?]). If you bought it from a small business owner, you're more than likely to get personalized assistance with your problem. So, there are benefits to buying from small businesses.
xzyax has a really good point there.. And I got to agree all these things they are doing now should have been done in betas..
Yup... that is ultimately the point.
How DarkFall currently stands today is why some of us were saying not to trust Tasos.
It is why we were adamant that Aventurine was making mistakes with their testing process.
It is why we were SKEPTICAL...
However... most of us were labeled Trolls by the ardent supporters. They wanted to believe everything Tasos told them. They didn't want to question anything, even when it went against common sense.
So, in the end... we receive yet another unfinished, untested MMO. It could have been so much better.
That game came out with a few bugs but was playable and available. they also sorted it al out very quickly, and i played from day one! would be interesting to see just how ther budget compared to AV's as 10 million doesn't seem a cheap game to me!
And i have no programming exp at all. i am a games player nothing else, but even i know the servers needed to be stress tested first. But i also work for a small company and know how important communication is, maybe AV didn't have that benefit either.
depending on the scope of the game, and such. an mmo can take up to 4 server housings to run.
but only 1 is actually the game server. thats just for a lower end game. something like say rose online or something. low end system spec games tend to use less servers
now most servers are not cheap as standard USA based server rental is anywhere from $250-$2000 a month PER server. (p2p /f2p(im) cover the staff and server overhead normally.)
now i have no idea what server requirement DF uses but im going to throw out that they use atleast 4 servers. to run 1 game instant of DF (no not a WOW instance. i mean 1 whole game of DF)
now thats not counting staff and developement costs (cost of eng. cost of graphic artists, cost of programers, standard building costs "hydro/electic.. ect" as well as all the other costs that come with running a company)
honestly though DF could have launched with a 1-2month free open beta. (or closed depending on how they want to test stuff) it would have dealt with account server issues, server stress. quest/gear/class blanace.. ect. )
then done a game release and boom. game loads with fewer bugs very simple very easy. a monkey and do it.
Fallen Earth is doing it. they have a beta test going on. not a paid beta. .. stressing the servers. quest stuff and junk. they are indy too.
HELL EA does betas of games.... and thats EA... O_O (granted EA sucks 80% of the time.. still they test their games)
so one must question why DF didnt do a beta?? as far as i can tell they only did a closed alpha test. then preorder... which is STUPID!!! but owell their loss. im not a huge pvper. but DF seemed interesting. guess its getting shelfed for about 6months untless they are able to patch like a rabbit multiplys....
hopefully they fix their issues mind you. as alot of people will be pretty pissed off to loss that kind of money..
Yeah I'm getting sick of the "indie" company excuse. If they want to play with the big boys they need to play and act like the big boys. Is a small business owner given slack because their prices aren't as cheap as a big-box store? No they're not and that's why they are going out of business. Should we give the small business owner some slack? I know I don't. If they want my money they have to be as competitive. It's really that simple. Edit: Damn that's sounds harsh sorry to all the small business owners out there. I believe in the American dream and I get why 80% of businesses are small businesses but I also want the best bang for my buck.
I buy from small businesses as much as possible, and will even pay a little more for their products, IF: they provide me with the personalized service that the big box stores can't provide. Have you ever bought something and had questions on how to use it? If you bought it from a big box store, try going in and asking someone (assuming you can find someone that isn't busy trying to sell something to another customer [are you listening Best Buy?]). If you bought it from a small business owner, you're more than likely to get personalized assistance with your problem. So, there are benefits to buying from small businesses.
Ion
It's ironic that you use Best Buy as a example because that is my store of choice. I try to do as much of my own research as possible before purchasing anything though. I honestly trust the BB name more than the local companies where I live.
I totally understand the personalized assistance argument though(working for the largest lawncare co this is something we try to do). Unfortunately AV doesn't seem to do this any better than say WoW.
P.S. its an indy gaming company you have to expect some of these issues.
NO this is the problem. WE SHOULD NOT have to expect these issues. Game developers used to take pride in releasing their games bug free. I can't believe what has happened to the community. It's like everyone has age of conan syndrome now.
AGREED! We should NOT give excuses to ANY company, indy or not, for releasing unplayable games. If we do, we encourage them to make more of the same unfinished crap. NO MORE CRAP!!!
darkfall is playable actully
Bad choice of words on my part. I stand corrected. I should of said "We should NOT give excuses to ANY company, indy or not, for producing unfinished product, practicing bad/amature business and letting customers suffer for it.".
Comments
NO this is the problem. WE SHOULD NOT have to expect these issues. Game developers used to take pride in releasing their games bug free. I can't believe what has happened to the community. It's like everyone has age of conan syndrome now.
qft
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
There are no "Copies" of Darkfall...!
They will notify us when they are able to get more people into their game server, because currently, it can only handle roughly 4k people..!
____________________________
combat is fun needs alil work here and there but i generally have fun with it. i think they need to slow down the pace alil more maybe just a lil faster than what mount and blade has. and make sprint 5-10 sec burst
no currently there account managemeant system is charging people but not activating accounts its randemly worked. im sure they have it fixed where it wont do it again but some peole havent gotten there pre orders even yet because here account managmeant fucked up. thsi is what holding them back the most
NO this is the problem. WE SHOULD NOT have to expect these issues. Game developers used to take pride in releasing their games bug free. I can't believe what has happened to the community. It's like everyone has age of conan syndrome now.
AGREED! We should NOT give excuses to ANY company, indy or not, for releasing unplayable games. If we do, we encourage them to make more of the same unfinished crap. NO MORE CRAP!!!
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
NO this is the problem. WE SHOULD NOT have to expect these issues. Game developers used to take pride in releasing their games bug free. I can't believe what has happened to the community. It's like everyone has age of conan syndrome now.
AGREED! We should NOT give excuses to ANY company, indy or not, for releasing unplayable games. If we do, we encourage them to make more of the same unfinished crap. NO MORE CRAP!!!
darkfall is playable actully
Yup.
That's one of the things that is my litmus test on how much credibility the posters have here. Has their "standards" stayed the same? Have they adusted their expectations to meet what was delivered? Some will know what I mean... others can do a bit of checking back at old posts.
Let's go back 4-6 months...
Remember the posts about how Aventurine was different? They were "above" doing pre-orders. In fact, they believed in their game so much they were going to let everyone try it for free before buying it.
Remember the posts about how they were going to show the MMO genre how to do a Release right?
Remember the posts about how each delay was even better for the players because it would result in a such a smooth and polished product?
Remember the posts that told the skeptics to be quiet with their doubts as to the truthfulness of Tasos' statements?
Remember the posts that told the skeptics to not question the Beta testing process of Aventurine... they knew better than us.
Remember the posts that told the skeptics how DarkFall will change the MMO genre forever!
So, now here we are.
Yes, DarkFall did Release on Feb. 25th, 2009...
Very few would say it was in fact Ready to do so.
Very few would say it is indeed the smooth, polished game that we were told would be the result of the many delays.
Very few would now say... "Tasos is the most honest developer ever!" "Tasos has never lied!"
Very few would now say... "They know what they are doing with Beta & Stress Testing... Trust them!"
Very few would now say... DarkFall will change the MMO genre.
So yeah, I have no problem with accepting that some MMOs (no not all of them) are released in pretty rough shape and need a lot of work to get them to a more polished state.
However, for the posters that were so adamant that Aventurine was different, and that we would see what a "Proper" MMO Release would look like with DarkFall:
I hope you now see why some of us were in fact SKEPTICAL about Tasos' statements, even though we were told we just needed to "Trust him".
I hope you now see why we said to expect what has in fact now been delivered, even though we were told it would be "finished".
I hope you now see why we said there would be problems with the way Aventurine was going about their testing process, even though we were told to "Trust them".
Do I think it will change how the next round of "fanboy" vs. skeptic vs. "troll" debates will go for the next MMO? Nope.
Edit: Yes, DarkFall is playable. That is a far cry from the hype that was posted from some of it's ardent supporters a few months back though. It does closely match the state that quite a few skeptics predicted it would be at though.
Hopefully Aventurine will get the bugs and exploits sorted out, get the rest of the features working, and ramp up to adding a few more servers.
As it stands now... they are the smallest P2P MMO to ever Release.
I buy from small businesses as much as possible, and will even pay a little more for their products, IF: they provide me with the personalized service that the big box stores can't provide. Have you ever bought something and had questions on how to use it? If you bought it from a big box store, try going in and asking someone (assuming you can find someone that isn't busy trying to sell something to another customer [are you listening Best Buy?]). If you bought it from a small business owner, you're more than likely to get personalized assistance with your problem. So, there are benefits to buying from small businesses.
Ion
xzyax has a really good point there.. And I got to agree all these things they are doing now should have been done in betas..
Currently playing: N/A
Retired from: GW, WAR, Aion, LOTRO, Rift, SW:TOR, Vinductus
Yup... that is ultimately the point.
How DarkFall currently stands today is why some of us were saying not to trust Tasos.
It is why we were adamant that Aventurine was making mistakes with their testing process.
It is why we were SKEPTICAL...
However... most of us were labeled Trolls by the ardent supporters. They wanted to believe everything Tasos told them. They didn't want to question anything, even when it went against common sense.
So, in the end... we receive yet another unfinished, untested MMO. It could have been so much better.
Anyone any idea of the budget for Everquest?
That game came out with a few bugs but was playable and available. they also sorted it al out very quickly, and i played from day one! would be interesting to see just how ther budget compared to AV's as 10 million doesn't seem a cheap game to me!
And i have no programming exp at all. i am a games player nothing else, but even i know the servers needed to be stress tested first. But i also work for a small company and know how important communication is, maybe AV didn't have that benefit either.
depending on the scope of the game, and such. an mmo can take up to 4 server housings to run.
but only 1 is actually the game server. thats just for a lower end game. something like say rose online or something. low end system spec games tend to use less servers
now most servers are not cheap as standard USA based server rental is anywhere from $250-$2000 a month PER server. (p2p /f2p(im) cover the staff and server overhead normally.)
now i have no idea what server requirement DF uses but im going to throw out that they use atleast 4 servers. to run 1 game instant of DF (no not a WOW instance. i mean 1 whole game of DF)
now thats not counting staff and developement costs (cost of eng. cost of graphic artists, cost of programers, standard building costs "hydro/electic.. ect" as well as all the other costs that come with running a company)
honestly though DF could have launched with a 1-2month free open beta. (or closed depending on how they want to test stuff) it would have dealt with account server issues, server stress. quest/gear/class blanace.. ect. )
then done a game release and boom. game loads with fewer bugs very simple very easy. a monkey and do it.
Fallen Earth is doing it. they have a beta test going on. not a paid beta. .. stressing the servers. quest stuff and junk. they are indy too.
HELL EA does betas of games.... and thats EA... O_O (granted EA sucks 80% of the time.. still they test their games)
so one must question why DF didnt do a beta?? as far as i can tell they only did a closed alpha test. then preorder... which is STUPID!!! but owell their loss. im not a huge pvper. but DF seemed interesting. guess its getting shelfed for about 6months untless they are able to patch like a rabbit multiplys....
hopefully they fix their issues mind you. as alot of people will be pretty pissed off to loss that kind of money..
I buy from small businesses as much as possible, and will even pay a little more for their products, IF: they provide me with the personalized service that the big box stores can't provide. Have you ever bought something and had questions on how to use it? If you bought it from a big box store, try going in and asking someone (assuming you can find someone that isn't busy trying to sell something to another customer [are you listening Best Buy?]). If you bought it from a small business owner, you're more than likely to get personalized assistance with your problem. So, there are benefits to buying from small businesses.
Ion
It's ironic that you use Best Buy as a example because that is my store of choice. I try to do as much of my own research as possible before purchasing anything though. I honestly trust the BB name more than the local companies where I live.
I totally understand the personalized assistance argument though(working for the largest lawncare co this is something we try to do). Unfortunately AV doesn't seem to do this any better than say WoW.
-Almerel
Hello my old friend.
NO this is the problem. WE SHOULD NOT have to expect these issues. Game developers used to take pride in releasing their games bug free. I can't believe what has happened to the community. It's like everyone has age of conan syndrome now.
AGREED! We should NOT give excuses to ANY company, indy or not, for releasing unplayable games. If we do, we encourage them to make more of the same unfinished crap. NO MORE CRAP!!!
darkfall is playable actully
Bad choice of words on my part. I stand corrected. I should of said "We should NOT give excuses to ANY company, indy or not, for producing unfinished product, practicing bad/amature business and letting customers suffer for it.".
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.