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Darkfall's broken promises?
Plenty of people here seem to be have a lot of hatred for Darkfall, and one of the common complains I've read is that there were a lot of features promised that are not (yet?) present in the game.
Which features are missing that were promised?
What are the worthwhile features that actually made it into the game?
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Comments
DF is great if you love SB style city sieging...for everything else it's mediocre at best.
Its not the game its the company. For months people complianed because there was no REAL previews of how the game was and what happend to the open beta? Now we know the reason was because they knew that Darkfall was medicore in every aspect so they did not let anybody try it. Maybe I am wrong but thats just the way I see it.
To the people who purchased this game there is an old saying that goes like this.
People will eat anything if they get hungry enough.
Great PvE - they told us they had the best AI - not even close, most of the world is empty, AI is crap and buggy.
Player choice - they said we could build our own toon with skills we picked - Not the case, we have to pick a bunch of skills before we get the ones we want. The skill system is horriable. You use a skill enough to unlock the next skill, you buy the new skill and it is worst then the old skill to you grind it up in levels. Basicly a pointless skill system that uses levels.
Player Skill PvP - they said it would be more important then items or anything else - Not the case, potions, macroing and lets not forget cheating are more important then player skill in Darkfall
Those are the ones that pop into my head right off the bat, I am sure there are more but those are the 3 things that I wanted in Darkfall and non are in game at all.
Sooner or Later
For a quick look at features that are not implemented in the game just look at their website. A lot of the stuff still in their FAQ is not not in the game and many features on there have been dropped outright.
To OP: I am not playing Darkfall but wonder the same thing about promises that did not make it (yet) into the game.
Torik: I looked at the faq but it still does NOT show which feature's are in or not, would be helpfull to actualy tell whats missing instead of pointing us towards something that does not answer the OP's questions.
Torik: I looked at the faq but it still does NOT show which feature's are in or not, would be helpfull to actualy tell whats missing instead of pointing us towards something that does not answer the OP's questions.
Sorry, I thought the OP knew what was in the game at the moment and just was curious what was promised before the game was sold.
If you scan the Darkfall forums here there are multiple thread where the authors posted pages of comparisons between what the website said the game was about and what actually is in it.
Great PvE - they told us they had the best AI - not even close, most of the world is empty, AI is crap and buggy.
Darkfall is not your generic Free to play game where theres boars/gobs/rats evenly distributed every 2 meters. There are mob spams, and mobs spam in these locations dynamically. The monsters that spam will hunt YOU. Is rare to see only one tryiing, if theres more than one, will organize a hunt party, and you will be the prey. How you think the ai on Darkfall is bad, is beyond my imaginate. is the best ever see in a MMO, and much better most or all singleplayer games. Maybe you can point me to a game that you think have a better AI.
PLease understand that Game forums have become increasingly radicalized over the past few years (both pro and con). Darkfall did not have all the desired features the developers had hoped to have on release. HOwever, this is no different than any MMO on release. I think we as a player community are becoming less and less patient for games to mature.
The lack of some sort of player housing and a working naval battle system are the biggest holes in the prelease hype vs post release reality
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
I like the AI too but it is buggy. When you have a game like Darkfall that allows you to jump or climb into places that you normally would not be able to reach you increase the chances of confusing the AI. If you climb up on a wall or rooftop and attack a melee NPC they have no way to defend themselves and no way to get to you so the mobs just start walking around while you safely kill them. Most MMO's would consider that exploiting but so far they haven't done anything to fix it or prevent players from doing it.
I prefer the PvP but if you look beyond the bugginess of the AI, it's actually fun to engage mobs in DF. They will gang up on you, switch targets, change from archery, to sword and board to casting and even sprint for cover to prevent death. I don't think I've had this much fun in PvE since my EQ raiding days.
Great PvE - they told us they had the best AI - not even close, most of the world is empty, AI is crap and buggy.
Darkfall is not your generic Free to play game where theres boars/gobs/rats evenly distributed every 2 meters. There are mob spams, and mobs spam in these locations dynamically. The monsters that spam will hunt YOU. Is rare to see only one tryiing, if theres more than one, will organize a hunt party, and you will be the prey. How you think the ai on Darkfall is bad, is beyond my imaginate. is the best ever see in a MMO, and much better most or all singleplayer games. Maybe you can point me to a game that you think have a better AI.
BAF coded AI has been around since before UO. You think mobs that aggro on players is a new feature? There are first generation quarter snatcher arcade games that did that. There's nothing new there. The pathing is so bad mobs "dynamically" run into things and get stuck. The only thing the AI does that most MMOs don't is mobs will run away if losing a fight. Other games have had that too. The most recent would be Warhammer.
Again, can you please give me the name of a MMO with better AI, please?
Now, for you help, the 99% of the MMO games habe this AI:
yawChange(); //try to aim to the player
if ( playerVisible() || playerReachable() ) {
moveForward(); //It has some basic pathfinding
} else {
clearAgro();
}
On Darkfall mobs have a beavior. Fight, but wen the fight look a losing battle, flee. Different mobs have different style. A wizard will try to get on missile distance and cast. A mele on mele distance. Mobs may get angry at you, and hide inside a house, if you are visible, but un-reachable. Etc.
The AI in Darkfall is good, because is a Action-RPG, and need to be fun. Most MMORPG games are "Spells" based RPG's, where you press a button and the mob will be damaged, and the mobs is somewhere, and will be damaged anyway. On most RPG games, the mob is just a graphic to poke, poke, poke, till is death. A graphic for a [progress] bar, the health bar.
Ok, I am here, waiting for you to say the name of a MMO game with better AI. Please.
Great PvE - they told us they had the best AI - not even close, most of the world is empty, AI is crap and buggy.
Darkfall is not your generic Free to play game where theres boars/gobs/rats evenly distributed every 2 meters. There are mob spams, and mobs spam in these locations dynamically. The monsters that spam will hunt YOU. Is rare to see only one tryiing, if theres more than one, will organize a hunt party, and you will be the prey. How you think the ai on Darkfall is bad, is beyond my imaginate. is the best ever see in a MMO, and much better most or all singleplayer games. Maybe you can point me to a game that you think have a better AI.
You do understand that it is very very simple to bug out the AI and the mob will just stand there and not attack while you kill it..... It is very easy to do.
Smart AI does not allow this to happen. The developer team also told us the AI is not static, meaning that if you kill the goblins in this camp they will respawn in another camp.
Sorry but I want a game that has a valid PvE element too, with good player skill PvP. That is what I want, not a free to play MMO.
YOu can like Darkfall, that is fine, that is up to you but to tell me the AI is the best in any MMO is a joke, you know it, I know it and anyone that has played Darkfall knows it.
Sooner or Later
Two links for you:
www.scribd.com/doc/9082373/Darkfall-Interviews
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/205888/page/1 (post #29)
That will give you a good start.
There have been more threads listing what is missing... but if you read those that will give you a pretty good understanding. If you are still unsure after reading all that... then it's probably not something anyone is going to be able to help you understand.
Great PvE - they told us they had the best AI - not even close, most of the world is empty, AI is crap and buggy.
Darkfall is not your generic Free to play game where theres boars/gobs/rats evenly distributed every 2 meters. There are mob spams, and mobs spam in these locations dynamically. The monsters that spam will hunt YOU. Is rare to see only one tryiing, if theres more than one, will organize a hunt party, and you will be the prey. How you think the ai on Darkfall is bad, is beyond my imaginate. is the best ever see in a MMO, and much better most or all singleplayer games. Maybe you can point me to a game that you think have a better AI.
BAF coded AI has been around since before UO. You think mobs that aggro on players is a new feature? There are first generation quarter snatcher arcade games that did that. There's nothing new there. The pathing is so bad mobs "dynamically" run into things and get stuck. The only thing the AI does that most MMOs don't is mobs will run away if losing a fight. Other games have had that too. The most recent would be Warhammer.
Again, can you please give me the name of a MMO with better AI, please?
Now, for you help, the 99% of the MMO games habe this AI:
yawChange(); //try to aim to the player
if ( playerVisible() || playerReachable() ) {
moveForward(); //It has some basic pathfinding
} else {
clearAgro();
}
On Darkfall mobs have a beavior. Fight, but wen the fight look a losing battle, flee. Different mobs have different style. A wizard will try to get on missile distance and cast. A mele on mele distance. Mobs may get angry at you, and hide inside a house, if you are visible, but un-reachable. Etc.
The AI in Darkfall is good, because is a Action-RPG, and need to be fun. Most MMORPG games are "Spells" based RPG's, where you press a button and the mob will be damaged, and the mobs is somewhere, and will be damaged anyway. On most RPG games, the mob is just a graphic to poke, poke, poke, till is death. A graphic for a [progress] bar, the health bar.
Ok, I am here, waiting for you to say the name of a MMO game with better AI. Please.
Any other MMO on the market has better AI.... Because it is not easy to bug them out and kill them without any fear of dieing. That is why the AI is horrible.
Remember how the Darkfall Developers told us that if you explored a cave and found monsters in it and killed them, they would no longer be in that cave and another mob would use that cave as ahome? Does this happen or is it just the static spawns like most other MMOs on the market?
How about my other 2 points, you seem to skip them.
Sooner or Later
The game has issues and the game is not for everyone. The development company, while not exactly the most communicative, do seem to read the forums and have been releasing patches to address issues, adding more content and fixes every one or two weeks.
The game is by no means perfect and it seems everyone has an opinion. Some people think it is a paid beta and yet there are plenty of people paying. Some people complain that half (and more) of the features promised are not in the game andd yet again there are still plenty of people playing at the moment.
I am currently playing and overall I am having a pretty good time. Not everyone is.
Great PvE - they told us they had the best AI - not even close, most of the world is empty, AI is crap and buggy.
Darkfall is not your generic Free to play game where theres boars/gobs/rats evenly distributed every 2 meters. There are mob spams, and mobs spam in these locations dynamically. The monsters that spam will hunt YOU. Is rare to see only one tryiing, if theres more than one, will organize a hunt party, and you will be the prey. How you think the ai on Darkfall is bad, is beyond my imaginate. is the best ever see in a MMO, and much better most or all singleplayer games. Maybe you can point me to a game that you think have a better AI.
The mobs don't hunt you. They just have very large aggro radius. They're not aware of your presence until you enter their radius and if they ignore you if you're outside of it (case in point, players will skill up off mobs by shooting them from outside the mob's radius). On top of that, if you're out in the wild, there's a good chance mobs won't exist in their spawn locations until you actually enter it. I've seen plenty of complaints about this. I've wandered back-and-forth over a hill, completely unpopulated, only to have several mobs spawn right on top of me. So, the mobs aren't even persisent. In remote areas, they won't spawn (thereby saving resources) until somebody is actually there.
As for the mob AI? No - it's not smarter, they just have more attacks and a bigger aggro range. They'll used ranged from a distance, melee up close and will try to run away when they get low on health. Nothing too revolutionary. What makes players think they have AI is how far away they aggro and their spastic sprinting zigzag escape routes (instead of slowly trying to limp away, like in many games).
So, there are static spawns. Thy don't hunt you. They'll ignore you if you're outside their range. They might not even spawn until you show up to trigger them. They'll run if hurt.
~Rippe
Great PvE - they told us they had the best AI - not even close, most of the world is empty, AI is crap and buggy.
Darkfall is not your generic Free to play game where theres boars/gobs/rats evenly distributed every 2 meters. There are mob spams, and mobs spam in these locations dynamically. The monsters that spam will hunt YOU. Is rare to see only one tryiing, if theres more than one, will organize a hunt party, and you will be the prey. How you think the ai on Darkfall is bad, is beyond my imaginate. is the best ever see in a MMO, and much better most or all singleplayer games. Maybe you can point me to a game that you think have a better AI.
BAF coded AI has been around since before UO. You think mobs that aggro on players is a new feature? There are first generation quarter snatcher arcade games that did that. There's nothing new there. The pathing is so bad mobs "dynamically" run into things and get stuck. The only thing the AI does that most MMOs don't is mobs will run away if losing a fight. Other games have had that too. The most recent would be Warhammer.
Again, can you please give me the name of a MMO with better AI, please?
Now, for you help, the 99% of the MMO games habe this AI:
yawChange(); //try to aim to the player
if ( playerVisible() || playerReachable() ) {
moveForward(); //It has some basic pathfinding
} else {
clearAgro();
}
On Darkfall mobs have a beavior. Fight, but wen the fight look a losing battle, flee. Different mobs have different style. A wizard will try to get on missile distance and cast. A mele on mele distance. Mobs may get angry at you, and hide inside a house, if you are visible, but un-reachable. Etc.
The AI in Darkfall is good, because is a Action-RPG, and need to be fun. Most MMORPG games are "Spells" based RPG's, where you press a button and the mob will be damaged, and the mobs is somewhere, and will be damaged anyway. On most RPG games, the mob is just a graphic to poke, poke, poke, till is death. A graphic for a [progress] bar, the health bar.
Ok, I am here, waiting for you to say the name of a MMO game with better AI. Please.
DFO mob AI functions no dif. then any other MMO.
You get within a specific range of the mob and it will agro.
If it's a ranged mob, it will attack at range.
If it's a melee mob it will run and attack in melee.
If it's a hybrid mob it will do a combo of the two.
DFO mob AI also flees from battle and will get help. Sort of.
Other MMO's do this as well. WAR does it.
DFO mobs will run away when at 75% health, stop running away and resume wandering as if it wasn't in the middle of a fight.
I never seen a single mob block.
Mobs tend to see through objects. I've had mobs agro on me while I was behind walls.
Mobs spawns aren't dynamic.
They are triggered.
They do not spawn more or less depending upon the number of people in the area. They do not thin out in an area if you spend enough time killing them (as the features list said they would, something I wish was in). They do not move out of thier spawn areas, they do not attack player cities (something else that Tasos at one point said they would do.).
They do not dynimcally spawn in new areas, they devs have to create new spawn points.
Mobs do not wander roads or travel.
They do not "live in the world" (as was stated as a feature that I wish would have been put in).
They do not level skills along with the players (something Tasos said they do, but do not, and something else I thought would have been cool.)
Changing targets is nothing new. Even WoW does it.
They never change tactic. If you fight a particular mob once, then you know exactly how they will engage you every time.
They are predictable, they cast the same spells in the same situations. They mob AI itself is not dynamic, it doesn't account for occurances.
CoH has dynamic mob spawns.
Players effect the level the mobs will spawn in the world. Lower level players will cause lower level spawns; while higher level players will cause higher level spawns, but the mobs will stay in a given level range for the zone they are in.
Mobs will attack you out of nowhere depending upon the action of the player. If you do enough missions that have you fighting a particular group of mobs, you can eventually get ambushed by that mob.
Mobs will run away when they start to get low on health, but unlike DFO mobs that will often start to wander like nothing happend, CoH mobs will return to try and beat you eventually. I've had mobs run crazy distances and then come back.
Some mobs are ACTUALLY DOING THINGS. They will be talking, mugging people, gather scraps, or working on something. It's only animations, but it's more then just having them wander a given radius doing nothing.
I suspect that you don't actually know what Av said about PvE.
They weren't talking about having stupidly hard SCRIPTED mobs. They were talking about dungeons that served purposes, that had bosses and such that could be faught over. That was supposed to utilize the "dynamic" spawns to create a breathing world of NPC's that actually lived alongside the players. The PvE was supposed to actually have depth and be just as much a part of the game as the PvP. They weren't talking about repeatable quests ala Lineage 2, and static mobs that you use to level skills and earn money.
They were talking about actual content.
DF's Current features vs Features promised by Tasos:
forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
/thread.
They haven't been able to update that thread for a couple of months so a lot of the info provided is inaccurate. I think it's time to get one that reflects the game as of today.
They haven't been able to update that thread for a couple of months so a lot of the info provided is inaccurate. I think it's time to get one that reflects the game as of today.
Ok so what is wrong in that thread? How about some facts and not sycophantic failboi spin.....and no a lot of what is in that thread is NOT inaccurate as of today. In fact most of it (well over 60%) is still very much accurate.
"If you were as smart as you think you are, you would realize that you are an idiot"
60% of it might be accurate but that leaves about 40% inaccurate info. For the record I'm just using your numbers since you provided it.
The OP tries to imply that there are actual safe zones in game which there are not "guard towers make very effective safe zones". Yes there are guard towers, but just like in EVE, they do not prevent you from killing anyone, they punish you for it. You can kill someone in a city, in front of a guard tower even, we did it at the NPC town bank on our 2nd day in game. The person ganking you is going to die in the process but you are far from safe. You can use one person to kill someone in town and have another person loot their corpse and rez you back before your victim respawns.
OP also states that "Enemies cannot raid, due to towers, and towers hit unlimited numbers of people." There have been raids going on everyday that I play. Yes the guard towers do hurt but they do not make it impossible. The make it hard on soloers but an enemy raid can get in.
The OP states that "You cannot fail a spell" but I have had spells fail numerous times. Since my character is only 2 weeks old it actually fails quite often.
That is just from reading the first few differences he posted. He mentions several times throughout the post that there are safespots yet people die everyday in those supposed safespots.
So call all the names you want, some of the info is inaccurate and due an update.
60% of it might be accurate but that leaves about 40% inaccurate info. For the record I'm just using your numbers since you provided it.
The OP tries to imply that there are actual safe zones in game which there are not "guard towers make very effective safe zones". Yes there are guard towers, but just like in EVE, they do not prevent you from killing anyone, they punish you for it. You can kill someone in a city, in front of a guard tower even, we did it at the NPC town bank on our 2nd day in game. The person ganking you is going to die in the process but you are far from safe. You can use one person to kill someone in town and have another person loot their corpse and rez you back before your victim respawns.
OP also states that "Enemies cannot raid, due to towers, and towers hit unlimited numbers of people." There have been raids going on everyday that I play. Yes the guard towers do hurt but they do not make it impossible. The make it hard on soloers but an enemy raid can get in.
The OP states that "You cannot fail a spell" but I have had spells fail numerous times. Since my character is only 2 weeks old it actually fails quite often.
That is just from reading the first few differences he posted. He mentions several times throughout the post that there are safespots yet people die everyday in those supposed safespots.
So call all the names you want, some of the info is inaccurate and due an update.
Dude. 3/60*100 = 5% of what he said is wrong. Not 40%.
Nevermind the fact that spell failures are unnoticeable ( not certain if they're not just a bug in the coding that hasn't been fixed, yet ) and that guard towers DO make effective defences.
1/60*100 = 1.6(recurring)%
lol sorry those were the other guys numbers, and pretty irrelevant to the post. If you go quote by quote I bet there is even more info that has changed or twisted into something other than fact but I stopped reading them about half way thru. Good job on the math though!
lol sorry those were the other guys numbers, and pretty irrelevant to the post. If you go quote by quote I bet there is even more info that has changed or twisted into something other than fact but I stopped reading them about half way thru. Good job on the math though!
Here is a little list that I put together from when the game was still in Beta and was told that everything that wasn't "turned on" or "fully implemented" would be so on Release Day... Feb. 25th. Some of the items were said to just be "place-holders" for Beta and that they would be "fully implemented" for Release (like the sound effects for example).
So by my count... and feel free to correct me where I'm mistaken... these will be the items we get to see for the first time come Release day as they are meant to be:
GNi Server farm hardware and networking (this one is assuming some fans and beta testers are correct in assuming that they have not been running the beta on these already).
10k+ players concurrently
Fully implemented wildlife
Fully implemented static mob camp spawns
Fully implemented dynamic mob spawns
Fully implemented dungeon mob spawns
Fully implemented ocean mob spawns
Fully implemented mob AI
Fully implemented city/town/hamlet NPCs
Fully implemented sound effects
Fully implemented weather effects
Fully implemented graphics options
Fully implemented trading options
Fully implemented Racial special abilities
Debug mode turned off
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2660932#2660932
So, how much of that list above has changed since Beta? The first and last on the list I'd say are in or "fixed"... the others?
the pve and quest system in darkfall right now is broken.they must revamp everything in pve and quests.
here is an example.
i picked a quest and the reward was 80 gold . the quest asked me to kill 3 bears. i went alone first and i killed from them in 2 and half hits.
after i went with an another guy in a party and we kited them and we killed one bear after a half of hour.last we went in five men party and i finished my quest in 20 minutes.
compared to other mmos that i have played , this quest is not a casual one man quest but a mini boss quest at 30 levels in lineage 2 and the rewards was really poor for the time that we spend in game