Generally I give a game at least half of it's free-trial period to determine whether it's a good game or not, whether I personally like it or not. There are plenty of *good* games out there that I don't personally enjoy. WOW is obviously a good game, after all 11+ million people pay to play it every day and have for several years now. But I don't like it.
How long do I wait to decide if I like a game or not? I can usually tell within the first couple hours after completing the tutorial. I don't like to judge during tutorials because a lot of them are designed specifically make games seem more fun than they really are. Or the tutorials are poorly written and make an otherwise fun game overly dull and monotonous. But within an hour or two after actually completing the tutorial and playing the *real* game I have a very good idea of whether I like it or not... and why. If I'm on the fence I'll usually do the free trial period until I'm sure. Not too many games in recent history have survived their entire free trial period with me.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Honestly, you can have an opinion about a game even after a minute of playing the game. Doesn't make your point valid. Also, you could have 100+ hours on the game, that still doesn't even make your point valid. However, just because its not valid in the grand scheme of things, doesn't make your opinion any less valuable if it were true and not skewed with biasness.
For single player games, content usually never updates, and the game never changes. With MMOs this is a different story. When you write an opinion about a game, this is coming from your own background and is only valid to people who are more like you are identify with you. There are a couple million people, at least this number was reported, playing Maplestory by Nexon. Just because I do not like the game, doesn't mean that my opinion is fully true. If it was, then why are there so many people playing that game? But just because those players like the game doesn't my opinion invalid toward myself.
This is what causes a lot of grief in these forums. Everyone will either have a differing opinion and talk about it and argue because they believe their points are more correct than others. Sometimes this can be true and other times, its the furthest from the truth.
To get a full truthful evaluation of a game, you should've experienced every single piece of content available in the game. This is usually impossible given that there are games that have been out there for years and players who have been dedicated to the game are still trying to finish all the content. But, you don't have to play that long to get a feel for the game to determine if you will or will not enjoy the game.
One suggestion, if I may, the lifetime of a game for a player is usually greatly increased when playing with friends whether that be just group play or being part of a guild. This social aspect of a game is the main reason why the entertainment industry is basing most of their work on the ability for people to be able to connect worldwide to a game to bring countless people together. I find that more reviews on a game where someone played with friends/guildmates, their reviews end up being on a higher note. On the other hand, those people who do it solo, end up not liking the game so much. Now this is not true in 100% of the cases, because I for one am content on soloing a few MMOs out there.
But going back to a previous point about MMOs, they usually continuously update. Meaning content is removed, added, enhanced, etc. So your opinion about a game can change at a moments notice, or remain valid for a while until numerous changes are made to the game where only the core part of the game may remain. Even then the core game may have changed overtime depending on the developers take the game either based on what the developer wants or what their community asks for. For example, I beta tested LOTRO, it was a decent game in beta, but wasn't for me. However, I recently went back to the game because of the trial they offer now, and I am having a better time in game. I am enjoying it more. And its not because my original take on the game was invalid, but because the game has changed and become more suited to the way I play.
Nowadays, it seems that many people on these forums take for granted how long it takes to make an MMO and how much money has to be spent to develop one. I sometimes feel, when reading posts, that they have an air of entitlement. Meaning they feel that the companies owe the player the game and they should be able to play the game how they want just because they pay for a box/monthly (when referring to a P2P game) or if they've spent money on the cash shop (when referring to F2P games). Your measely $15s or however much you spent on an item shop doesn't entail you to a game entirely of your style. Though, if the game is not fun for you, you can leave constructive feedback (which hardly anyone does) and move on. You don't need to voice a biased opinion on the forums that aren't necessarily true.
Sorry for the wall of text. In short, there is no amount of time you can place on a game (MMO) to get a true understanding of the game and be able to write an entirely valid and truthful review about the game. But... you only need to spend a single minute to get an opinion of your own that can be valid for yourself.
Edit: I also forgot to add, when starting a game, you should go into it without any biasness to get a true feel for the game.
I have played a great deal of MMORPGs as well as a hell of a lot more solo computer RPGs, and I have owned a computer of one type or another (sometimes more than one at a time) for the last 30 years. With this amount of computer gaming experience, I can usually tell if I will like a game or not within 10 to 30 minutes. However, I often persevere with some of the ones I don't initially take to for maybe 2 to 3 hours, just in case I'm missing something. Invariably, my initial opinion was, at least for me and my purposes, correct.
That assumes you can know what it is to experience the game in 30 minutes. You can't. Doesn't matter how good you think you are at judging a game, all you're really doing is failing to be wowed by anything new and quitting before you can discover what it is that makes a given MMO tick, what truly seperates it from the others.
I consider myself a good judge of games from limited experience too, but this experience has also taught me that modern MMOs are almost uniformly boring and pretty much the same at lower levels, that it's not until a week or two later that you start to get into the meat of what the game's mechanics are really about, that your characters developer to such a point that they are actually fun and unique to play.
Nowadays, it seems that many people on these forums take for granted how long it takes to make an MMO and how much money has to be spent to develop one. I sometimes feel, when reading posts, that they have an air of entitlement. Meaning they feel that the companies owe the player the game and they should be able to play the game how they want just because they pay for a box/monthly (when referring to a P2P game) or if they've spent money on the cash shop (when referring to F2P games). Your measely $15s or however much you spent on an item shop doesn't entail you to a game entirely of your style. Though, if the game is not fun for you, you can leave constructive feedback (which hardly anyone does) and move on. You don't need to voice a biased opinion on the forums that aren't necessarily true.
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You've got it backwards, it's more like players are wondering what makes these companies feel they are entitled to charge us $15 a month when most are failing to offer up new experiences while failing to provide a continued service that even justifies such a fee. A prime example being DDO, which has a set up more like guild wars, which does not have the kind of server requirements that justify a monthly fee. Traditionally you are suppose to pay a monthly fee for games that push the envelope to do things with expensive servers and bandwidth that otherwise would be impossible to achieve, or to provide for the continued release of new content and updates, but these days a lot of them are cutting corners and just expect us to pony up a fee because they adopt an MMORPG gamestyle. This is why free to play is increasing it's marketshare.
pfft...5 minutes or 5 months. Doesn't make a squat difference. If the game doesn't manage to catch my interest in some way, its a crappy game. I hate this endgame thing people say you have to experience before you're qualified to have an opinion about a game. It's bollocks. If the game is shit at the beginning it's most likely shit at the end too. Someone mentioned Morrowind. That game managed to catch me at the beginning. I know rpg's usually go slower, but the atmosphere in that game was excellent and something you pick up the first 5 minutes of gameplay.
you dont have to play a game at all the form a valid opinion.
You should though try not to preach your opinion to others unless you have experienced the game. thats what too many people do in these forums, dont even try the games then think that they are correct as they preach to everyone who does...about why we should'nt! everyone is entitled to form an opinion, no one is entitled to slate others!
pfft...5 minutes or 5 months. Doesn't make a squat difference. If the game doesn't manage to catch my interest in some way, its a crappy game. I hate this endgame thing people say you have to experience before you're qualified to have an opinion about a game. It's bollocks. If the game is shit at the beginning it's most likely shit at the end too. Someone mentioned Morrowind. That game managed to catch me at the beginning. I know rpg's usually go slower, but the atmosphere in that game was excellent and something you pick up the first 5 minutes of gameplay.
I installed Morrowind, played until you got out of the first office into the world, started practicing the attack buttons and accidentally hit a passerby. The town took me out and I looked on in shock. Was tired and shut the game down and didn't try it again for months later.
Then when I got to the same place and really paid attention to the little pop up box that said "well, there is a tavern up ahead and you can get goods at x, good luck!", that is when it got me. I played it for years aftwards and am having the same success with Oblivion.
OP, my advice is to play until you don't want to play anymore. As far as whether or not one can assess a game in a day or an hour or a week, that really doesn't matter in my opinion. Play as long as you are intrigued or having fun. You don't owe it to a game to see if it is decent.
I can state that I tried Chronicles of Spellborn yet never gave it a fair chance at all and could not give a decent review of anything short of the tutorial and my first moments out of the tutorial.
I booted it up, made a character played the tutorial, got to the first new player area, was asked to run around to different towers to collect (deliver?) reports and then just sat back and lost all my will to go on.
Is it fair to the game? Well I think it doesn't matter. It could be the greatest game in the world, but if I don't want to do what they ask and I am not intrigued enough to go on then for me I would just do something else.
There could be another time that I will become intrigued and go back. Just like Morrowind. I wouldn't diss a game for my lack of playing and lack of understanding its gameplay but I would never force myself to do something "just because".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It really depends on what you plan to do with your opinion.
If you're deciding to play or not, then it can be as long or as short as you would like.
If you're planning on trashing the game on the forums then you'd better play 10 or more hours, or whatever is long enough to get comfortable with the game's mechanics and the developer's intended play style.
If you're planning on complimenting the game on the forums then you don't even need to play it. The fanboys will accept you no matter what and the haters will hate you either way.
I don't know about valid opinion, but I usually know if I'll enjoy the game or not by the time I finish the starter area. Like Tortage for AoC, Hawksmouth for Spellborn, Archet for LOTRO, the harbor for DDO, etc... If it doesn't catch my interest by the time I get out of the starter area, I won't play anymore.
If the game gives 10 or 14 days trial, then this is in effect the game designers way of saying "you need to play for this long to be convinced"
Where possible I always play the trial completly, and try everything possible, even free to play games!
Two reasons:
a] sometimes a game seems amazing to begin with, and then after a few weeks or even longer your hit by the "oh, its actually terrible" Do the trial, take a few days break and think about it. (eg, AoC)
b] sometimes a game seems terrible, but actually after a week or so of playing you realise, "actually, lol, this is awesome!" (eg, DDO)
there are exceptions!
If the graphics are outstandingly bad or If the controls are hideous and non-customisable which covers most f2p asian games.
If for some reason I cant progress, either technically or otherwise I wont give it any more chance, maybe a year later.
My example for the exception is Final Fantasy, terrible graphics, terrible controls, I dont even want to suffer it all.
In addition, you should also think about when to "re-try" it, if the game has been out a few years since your last trial, worth giving it a go again! I tried Final fantasy about 2 years after my inital trial, and my thoughts didnt change at all. However LOTRO a few years later left me gob smacked! its unfortunate that I just cannot convince my regular MMO buddies to give it a go.
I personally think you have an opinion about a game the moment it starts...yes it may be shaky at first and if you have the time or will to get past some bad parts Im sure some games do "open up" at X level...thats not how I am though...I tend to install/uninstall the moment I find I just cant get into the game...I feel that my opinion is valid to me no matter how long I've been playing X game...the problem on the forums tends to come in with people really not knowing how to debate or "argue considerately"...people end up yelling and screaming insults at each other with differing opinions rather than just simply saying "I dont quite agree and here is why"...I think its a matter of maturity ....and judging by some posts I've read you can tell the maturity level rather quickly depending on how someone tries to get their point across
You can have a "valid" opinion on anything - regardless of time spent with that thing - as long as it is backed up with decent reasoning, a degree of mature objectivity, and evidence. Just preface it with "first impression" if you wanna pre-empt the type of nerd rage criticism you mention in your OP. I played plenty free trials that didnt grab me within the first 30 mins and imo they sucked (for me) so I didnt proceed; it's a competiive market and a million online consumers wanna tell you how they feel: quality of the opinions vary so best get yer crap waders on if you wanna sift some gold nuggets from a whole multi-universe of turd.
If you had written "valid review" rather than "valid opinion", then we may have a debate. Let's assume an alternate reality where that's what you wrote. A valid review still requires decent reasoning etc but usually requires a full "reviewing" of the parts of the object you are criticising. You dont watch 5 mins of a movie then publish a review of that movie; sure you can rant to yer mates that it was so sh** that you couldn't bear watching beyond 5, but you ain't gonna write a piece in the NYT or Guardian reviewing it without getting egg in yer face. I seem to remember some right wing christians attacking Harry Potter even though they hadn't read beyond the book title and that was pretty much a credibility game over for them. A credible reviewer will watch/read the entire thing. or at least 3/4 of it if they are established heavy-hitters.
Now, in a mmorpg that would demand that a "first impression" would need a day or two of gaming to review, and that review would include details of how many levels you played. Most credible reviewers do that anyway and that - thankfully - helps me avoid the mountain of brown stuff that dominates the sub-literate world that is the internet.
If you wanna become full-time "reviewer" then just be fair, reasonable, literate, logical and - most importantly - original, and I will read yer stuff.
You can have a "valid" opinion on anything - regardless of time spent with that thing
If you had written "valid review" rather than "valid opinion", then we may have a debate.
That is exactly what I was getting ready to say.
Your opinion is your own and is no more valid or invalid than anyone else's opinion. So you can form an opinion purely based on what you read about a game before it is even released, or after two years of playing it. On the other hand, a valid review should have enough play time to be able to back it up with facts gained from experience. That amount of play time can vary from game to game, so it is hard to just say, "you need to play for at least a day, or a week, or a month."
Some games scream at you that they are absolutely, 100% horrid in the first 30 seconds. Warhammer was one of those games for me. I couldn't stand to look at it, much less play it.
When I first started playing WoW, I was a tad underwhelmed, but I gave it more time because my friends were playing it, and I ended up really liking it and have been playing it on and off since a year after launch.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
I playtest nearly every MMO that is FTP or has an open/closed beta. What seems to be a fair assement to me is to play until the first character or game changing event. This however is a hard concept to define because it is different for each game but once you understand the concept it's easy to apply accross other games.
For example, in WoW, it would have been until you get your mount when they were at 40. For something like Spellborn it would be playing until you've left the starter (free) areas. For other games, say one, that lets you craft your first mega item at level 20, then slightly past that would be the threshold.
You would still have to be very twisted to play WoW or any game for that matter to level 40 just to try it out. People who don't like WoW at level 10 won't like it any more at level 40.
I haven't heard of any game which someone doesn't like at lvl 10 and then suddenly thinks it's awesome much later.
You can have a valid opinion anytime, regardless of how long you've played a game. If you don't like it, or can't get into it, then you don't like it. It's your opinion and yours only.
But if you want to be vocal about it on the forums/blogs/websites, then make sure you be honest about it. Don't pretend to talk about things yuo don't know, such as endgame or content you've never even seen. I think it's perfectly fine to say you couldn't get into a game.
pfft...5 minutes or 5 months. Doesn't make a squat difference. If the game doesn't manage to catch my interest in some way, its a crappy game. I hate this endgame thing people say you have to experience before you're qualified to have an opinion about a game. It's bollocks. If the game is shit at the beginning it's most likely shit at the end too. Someone mentioned Morrowind. That game managed to catch me at the beginning. I know rpg's usually go slower, but the atmosphere in that game was excellent and something you pick up the first 5 minutes of gameplay.
Is it fair to the game? Well I think it doesn't matter. It could be the greatest game in the world, but if I don't want to do what they ask and I am not intrigued enough to go on then for me I would just do something else.
QFT.... I agree with this sentiment 100%.
Remeber the scene in Jerry Maguire where Renee tells Tom "You had me at hello" I kinda feel the same way about a game, if you don't have me at hello, I'm done with you, but if you get, then you've got me for a good long while.
Id say if you are not having any fun 1/3rd into the game then its safe to assume it wont be worth your time to go tru another 1/3rd of crap to hopefully get to the last 1/3rd which "Maybe" fun. So for me, after I reacha bout 1/3rd of the way I quit if I am not having fun. Granted I endup not having fun a lot for this...
It depends on the game. If a game is endgame focused, then near end game. If a game is not your cup of tea, and you can't stand playing it, just keep your opinions as opinions. Validation only works for those that try to find both good ad bad in a game.
There are no such game that is worthless all around, there will at least be one redeemable point. However, just one usually won't make it a good game anyways.
Usually if you see people saying things in the extremes such as "perfect" "worthless" or anything similar, you can basicaly ignore those as only opinions that doesn't have much validations to it.
Much like reali life, the smart ones are the ones that aren't extremists, but somewhere in the middle.
Edite: Actually there are games that gets better and better as you play, those are also the games that keep you coming back like crack cocaine. Best example: FFXI If you can stand leveling your first job to 75 and do the story, it will make you very addicted. However those that just want a easy game should just go away, FFXI is not for kids or jerks.
Since a few people feel that they are entitled to "pushing the envelope" gameplay if they are paying a monthly fee. Let me reiterate, and this was explained by another person not myself, take what you think you are entitled to, then take less than 5% of that. That is what you are truely entitled to. If you don't like the game don't pay for it. If you don't want to pay for the game, wait for a free trial. Your opinion will be your own, you are not entitled to the end all be all MMO, just because you pay a meesely $15. Now if you were spending a few million dollars, then I can understand that you would be royal pissed if you didn't like the game. In that case I would not argue with you.
That being said, you get an opinion about the game before you even play. That will already set the mood in how you will experience the game. You don't have to wait for end content to have an opinion. But a valid review, as someone else has stated, you need a good amount of time experiencing the game's many aspects, which can include end game. But if the game does not catch your fancy then don't play it. Stop paying and go somewhere else.
As long as you're open with how long you've played the game, any amount of playtime can generate a valid opinion.
So rather than say, "Lineage 2 sucks" I tend to be a bit more descriptive like, "The first 8 hours of Lineage 2, every single fight is nearly identical and few quests exist to vary the gameplay; it's a ridiculously tedius game."
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Comments
Generally I give a game at least half of it's free-trial period to determine whether it's a good game or not, whether I personally like it or not. There are plenty of *good* games out there that I don't personally enjoy. WOW is obviously a good game, after all 11+ million people pay to play it every day and have for several years now. But I don't like it.
How long do I wait to decide if I like a game or not? I can usually tell within the first couple hours after completing the tutorial. I don't like to judge during tutorials because a lot of them are designed specifically make games seem more fun than they really are. Or the tutorials are poorly written and make an otherwise fun game overly dull and monotonous. But within an hour or two after actually completing the tutorial and playing the *real* game I have a very good idea of whether I like it or not... and why. If I'm on the fence I'll usually do the free trial period until I'm sure. Not too many games in recent history have survived their entire free trial period with me.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Honestly, you can have an opinion about a game even after a minute of playing the game. Doesn't make your point valid. Also, you could have 100+ hours on the game, that still doesn't even make your point valid. However, just because its not valid in the grand scheme of things, doesn't make your opinion any less valuable if it were true and not skewed with biasness.
For single player games, content usually never updates, and the game never changes. With MMOs this is a different story. When you write an opinion about a game, this is coming from your own background and is only valid to people who are more like you are identify with you. There are a couple million people, at least this number was reported, playing Maplestory by Nexon. Just because I do not like the game, doesn't mean that my opinion is fully true. If it was, then why are there so many people playing that game? But just because those players like the game doesn't my opinion invalid toward myself.
This is what causes a lot of grief in these forums. Everyone will either have a differing opinion and talk about it and argue because they believe their points are more correct than others. Sometimes this can be true and other times, its the furthest from the truth.
To get a full truthful evaluation of a game, you should've experienced every single piece of content available in the game. This is usually impossible given that there are games that have been out there for years and players who have been dedicated to the game are still trying to finish all the content. But, you don't have to play that long to get a feel for the game to determine if you will or will not enjoy the game.
One suggestion, if I may, the lifetime of a game for a player is usually greatly increased when playing with friends whether that be just group play or being part of a guild. This social aspect of a game is the main reason why the entertainment industry is basing most of their work on the ability for people to be able to connect worldwide to a game to bring countless people together. I find that more reviews on a game where someone played with friends/guildmates, their reviews end up being on a higher note. On the other hand, those people who do it solo, end up not liking the game so much. Now this is not true in 100% of the cases, because I for one am content on soloing a few MMOs out there.
But going back to a previous point about MMOs, they usually continuously update. Meaning content is removed, added, enhanced, etc. So your opinion about a game can change at a moments notice, or remain valid for a while until numerous changes are made to the game where only the core part of the game may remain. Even then the core game may have changed overtime depending on the developers take the game either based on what the developer wants or what their community asks for. For example, I beta tested LOTRO, it was a decent game in beta, but wasn't for me. However, I recently went back to the game because of the trial they offer now, and I am having a better time in game. I am enjoying it more. And its not because my original take on the game was invalid, but because the game has changed and become more suited to the way I play.
Nowadays, it seems that many people on these forums take for granted how long it takes to make an MMO and how much money has to be spent to develop one. I sometimes feel, when reading posts, that they have an air of entitlement. Meaning they feel that the companies owe the player the game and they should be able to play the game how they want just because they pay for a box/monthly (when referring to a P2P game) or if they've spent money on the cash shop (when referring to F2P games). Your measely $15s or however much you spent on an item shop doesn't entail you to a game entirely of your style. Though, if the game is not fun for you, you can leave constructive feedback (which hardly anyone does) and move on. You don't need to voice a biased opinion on the forums that aren't necessarily true.
Sorry for the wall of text. In short, there is no amount of time you can place on a game (MMO) to get a true understanding of the game and be able to write an entirely valid and truthful review about the game. But... you only need to spend a single minute to get an opinion of your own that can be valid for yourself.
Edit: I also forgot to add, when starting a game, you should go into it without any biasness to get a true feel for the game.
~Webby "This MMO needs more dead bird."
That assumes you can know what it is to experience the game in 30 minutes. You can't. Doesn't matter how good you think you are at judging a game, all you're really doing is failing to be wowed by anything new and quitting before you can discover what it is that makes a given MMO tick, what truly seperates it from the others.
I consider myself a good judge of games from limited experience too, but this experience has also taught me that modern MMOs are almost uniformly boring and pretty much the same at lower levels, that it's not until a week or two later that you start to get into the meat of what the game's mechanics are really about, that your characters developer to such a point that they are actually fun and unique to play.
Nowadays, it seems that many people on these forums take for granted how long it takes to make an MMO and how much money has to be spent to develop one. I sometimes feel, when reading posts, that they have an air of entitlement. Meaning they feel that the companies owe the player the game and they should be able to play the game how they want just because they pay for a box/monthly (when referring to a P2P game) or if they've spent money on the cash shop (when referring to F2P games). Your measely $15s or however much you spent on an item shop doesn't entail you to a game entirely of your style. Though, if the game is not fun for you, you can leave constructive feedback (which hardly anyone does) and move on. You don't need to voice a biased opinion on the forums that aren't necessarily true.
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You've got it backwards, it's more like players are wondering what makes these companies feel they are entitled to charge us $15 a month when most are failing to offer up new experiences while failing to provide a continued service that even justifies such a fee. A prime example being DDO, which has a set up more like guild wars, which does not have the kind of server requirements that justify a monthly fee. Traditionally you are suppose to pay a monthly fee for games that push the envelope to do things with expensive servers and bandwidth that otherwise would be impossible to achieve, or to provide for the continued release of new content and updates, but these days a lot of them are cutting corners and just expect us to pony up a fee because they adopt an MMORPG gamestyle. This is why free to play is increasing it's marketshare.
pfft...5 minutes or 5 months. Doesn't make a squat difference. If the game doesn't manage to catch my interest in some way, its a crappy game. I hate this endgame thing people say you have to experience before you're qualified to have an opinion about a game. It's bollocks. If the game is shit at the beginning it's most likely shit at the end too. Someone mentioned Morrowind. That game managed to catch me at the beginning. I know rpg's usually go slower, but the atmosphere in that game was excellent and something you pick up the first 5 minutes of gameplay.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
you dont have to play a game at all the form a valid opinion.
You should though try not to preach your opinion to others unless you have experienced the game. thats what too many people do in these forums, dont even try the games then think that they are correct as they preach to everyone who does...about why we should'nt! everyone is entitled to form an opinion, no one is entitled to slate others!
I installed Morrowind, played until you got out of the first office into the world, started practicing the attack buttons and accidentally hit a passerby. The town took me out and I looked on in shock. Was tired and shut the game down and didn't try it again for months later.
Then when I got to the same place and really paid attention to the little pop up box that said "well, there is a tavern up ahead and you can get goods at x, good luck!", that is when it got me. I played it for years aftwards and am having the same success with Oblivion.
OP, my advice is to play until you don't want to play anymore. As far as whether or not one can assess a game in a day or an hour or a week, that really doesn't matter in my opinion. Play as long as you are intrigued or having fun. You don't owe it to a game to see if it is decent.
I can state that I tried Chronicles of Spellborn yet never gave it a fair chance at all and could not give a decent review of anything short of the tutorial and my first moments out of the tutorial.
I booted it up, made a character played the tutorial, got to the first new player area, was asked to run around to different towers to collect (deliver?) reports and then just sat back and lost all my will to go on.
Is it fair to the game? Well I think it doesn't matter. It could be the greatest game in the world, but if I don't want to do what they ask and I am not intrigued enough to go on then for me I would just do something else.
There could be another time that I will become intrigued and go back. Just like Morrowind. I wouldn't diss a game for my lack of playing and lack of understanding its gameplay but I would never force myself to do something "just because".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It really depends on what you plan to do with your opinion.
If you're deciding to play or not, then it can be as long or as short as you would like.
If you're planning on trashing the game on the forums then you'd better play 10 or more hours, or whatever is long enough to get comfortable with the game's mechanics and the developer's intended play style.
If you're planning on complimenting the game on the forums then you don't even need to play it. The fanboys will accept you no matter what and the haters will hate you either way.
No kidding Sherlock, for being the most expensive game format out there (P2P), they better be good.
I don't know about valid opinion, but I usually know if I'll enjoy the game or not by the time I finish the starter area. Like Tortage for AoC, Hawksmouth for Spellborn, Archet for LOTRO, the harbor for DDO, etc... If it doesn't catch my interest by the time I get out of the starter area, I won't play anymore.
Depends on what kind of trial is available.
If the game gives 10 or 14 days trial, then this is in effect the game designers way of saying "you need to play for this long to be convinced"
Where possible I always play the trial completly, and try everything possible, even free to play games!
Two reasons:
a] sometimes a game seems amazing to begin with, and then after a few weeks or even longer your hit by the "oh, its actually terrible" Do the trial, take a few days break and think about it. (eg, AoC)
b] sometimes a game seems terrible, but actually after a week or so of playing you realise, "actually, lol, this is awesome!" (eg, DDO)
there are exceptions!
If the graphics are outstandingly bad or If the controls are hideous and non-customisable which covers most f2p asian games.
If for some reason I cant progress, either technically or otherwise I wont give it any more chance, maybe a year later.
My example for the exception is Final Fantasy, terrible graphics, terrible controls, I dont even want to suffer it all.
In addition, you should also think about when to "re-try" it, if the game has been out a few years since your last trial, worth giving it a go again! I tried Final fantasy about 2 years after my inital trial, and my thoughts didnt change at all. However LOTRO a few years later left me gob smacked! its unfortunate that I just cannot convince my regular MMO buddies to give it a go.
I personally think you have an opinion about a game the moment it starts...yes it may be shaky at first and if you have the time or will to get past some bad parts Im sure some games do "open up" at X level...thats not how I am though...I tend to install/uninstall the moment I find I just cant get into the game...I feel that my opinion is valid to me no matter how long I've been playing X game...the problem on the forums tends to come in with people really not knowing how to debate or "argue considerately"...people end up yelling and screaming insults at each other with differing opinions rather than just simply saying "I dont quite agree and here is why"...I think its a matter of maturity ....and judging by some posts I've read you can tell the maturity level rather quickly depending on how someone tries to get their point across
I AM like the wind!
You can have a "valid" opinion on anything - regardless of time spent with that thing - as long as it is backed up with decent reasoning, a degree of mature objectivity, and evidence. Just preface it with "first impression" if you wanna pre-empt the type of nerd rage criticism you mention in your OP. I played plenty free trials that didnt grab me within the first 30 mins and imo they sucked (for me) so I didnt proceed; it's a competiive market and a million online consumers wanna tell you how they feel: quality of the opinions vary so best get yer crap waders on if you wanna sift some gold nuggets from a whole multi-universe of turd.
If you had written "valid review" rather than "valid opinion", then we may have a debate. Let's assume an alternate reality where that's what you wrote. A valid review still requires decent reasoning etc but usually requires a full "reviewing" of the parts of the object you are criticising. You dont watch 5 mins of a movie then publish a review of that movie; sure you can rant to yer mates that it was so sh** that you couldn't bear watching beyond 5, but you ain't gonna write a piece in the NYT or Guardian reviewing it without getting egg in yer face. I seem to remember some right wing christians attacking Harry Potter even though they hadn't read beyond the book title and that was pretty much a credibility game over for them. A credible reviewer will watch/read the entire thing. or at least 3/4 of it if they are established heavy-hitters.
Now, in a mmorpg that would demand that a "first impression" would need a day or two of gaming to review, and that review would include details of how many levels you played. Most credible reviewers do that anyway and that - thankfully - helps me avoid the mountain of brown stuff that dominates the sub-literate world that is the internet.
If you wanna become full-time "reviewer" then just be fair, reasonable, literate, logical and - most importantly - original, and I will read yer stuff.
That is exactly what I was getting ready to say.
Your opinion is your own and is no more valid or invalid than anyone else's opinion. So you can form an opinion purely based on what you read about a game before it is even released, or after two years of playing it. On the other hand, a valid review should have enough play time to be able to back it up with facts gained from experience. That amount of play time can vary from game to game, so it is hard to just say, "you need to play for at least a day, or a week, or a month."
I playtest nearly every MMO that is FTP or has an open/closed beta.
What seems to be a fair assement to me is to play until the first
character or game changing event. This however is a hard concept
to define because it is different for each game but once you
understand the concept it's easy to apply accross other games.
For example, in WoW, it would have been until you get your
mount when they were at 40. For something like Spellborn
it would be playing until you've left the starter (free) areas.
For other games, say one, that lets you craft your first mega
item at level 20, then slightly past that would be the threshold.
From all the playing I have done one thing I can say for sure
is that most MMO companies, especially translations,
are terrible at the "start game". It is quite obvious that these
devs have never done any usability testing like one would
do for a regular application being built. One would think
someone would get this by now, but no, most of the
intros are either WHUMP YUR THERE, boring or filled
with too much information to be taken in at once.
It depends on how bad the game is.
Some games scream at you that they are absolutely, 100% horrid in the first 30 seconds. Warhammer was one of those games for me. I couldn't stand to look at it, much less play it.
When I first started playing WoW, I was a tad underwhelmed, but I gave it more time because my friends were playing it, and I ended up really liking it and have been playing it on and off since a year after launch.
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
You would still have to be very twisted to play WoW or any game for that matter to level 40 just to try it out. People who don't like WoW at level 10 won't like it any more at level 40.
I haven't heard of any game which someone doesn't like at lvl 10 and then suddenly thinks it's awesome much later.
Heh you are right, level 40?! My brain is playing tricks on me.
Instead, for WoW, until you've unlocked your second tier of talents.
You can have a valid opinion anytime, regardless of how long you've played a game. If you don't like it, or can't get into it, then you don't like it. It's your opinion and yours only.
But if you want to be vocal about it on the forums/blogs/websites, then make sure you be honest about it. Don't pretend to talk about things yuo don't know, such as endgame or content you've never even seen. I think it's perfectly fine to say you couldn't get into a game.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
Is it fair to the game? Well I think it doesn't matter. It could be the greatest game in the world, but if I don't want to do what they ask and I am not intrigued enough to go on then for me I would just do something else.
QFT.... I agree with this sentiment 100%.
Remeber the scene in Jerry Maguire where Renee tells Tom "You had me at hello" I kinda feel the same way about a game, if you don't have me at hello, I'm done with you, but if you get, then you've got me for a good long while.
Id say if you are not having any fun 1/3rd into the game then its safe to assume it wont be worth your time to go tru another 1/3rd of crap to hopefully get to the last 1/3rd which "Maybe" fun. So for me, after I reacha bout 1/3rd of the way I quit if I am not having fun. Granted I endup not having fun a lot for this...
It depends on the game. If a game is endgame focused, then near end game. If a game is not your cup of tea, and you can't stand playing it, just keep your opinions as opinions. Validation only works for those that try to find both good ad bad in a game.
There are no such game that is worthless all around, there will at least be one redeemable point. However, just one usually won't make it a good game anyways.
Usually if you see people saying things in the extremes such as "perfect" "worthless" or anything similar, you can basicaly ignore those as only opinions that doesn't have much validations to it.
Much like reali life, the smart ones are the ones that aren't extremists, but somewhere in the middle.
Edite: Actually there are games that gets better and better as you play, those are also the games that keep you coming back like crack cocaine. Best example: FFXI If you can stand leveling your first job to 75 and do the story, it will make you very addicted. However those that just want a easy game should just go away, FFXI is not for kids or jerks.
Since a few people feel that they are entitled to "pushing the envelope" gameplay if they are paying a monthly fee. Let me reiterate, and this was explained by another person not myself, take what you think you are entitled to, then take less than 5% of that. That is what you are truely entitled to. If you don't like the game don't pay for it. If you don't want to pay for the game, wait for a free trial. Your opinion will be your own, you are not entitled to the end all be all MMO, just because you pay a meesely $15. Now if you were spending a few million dollars, then I can understand that you would be royal pissed if you didn't like the game. In that case I would not argue with you.
That being said, you get an opinion about the game before you even play. That will already set the mood in how you will experience the game. You don't have to wait for end content to have an opinion. But a valid review, as someone else has stated, you need a good amount of time experiencing the game's many aspects, which can include end game. But if the game does not catch your fancy then don't play it. Stop paying and go somewhere else.
~Webby "This MMO needs more dead bird."
As long as you're open with how long you've played the game, any amount of playtime can generate a valid opinion.
So rather than say, "Lineage 2 sucks" I tend to be a bit more descriptive like, "The first 8 hours of Lineage 2, every single fight is nearly identical and few quests exist to vary the gameplay; it's a ridiculously tedius game."
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver