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Getting tired of games only adding end-game content.
jusomdude
Member RarePosts: 2,706
This is a trend tha really tweaks me since I don't like raiding. It's nice to play the new non-raid instances in expansions, but I really do think they should add more mid-level instances for people that like to make alts. I don't usually play my max level characters that much other than to get gold and stuff.
It would be nice to experience new things when leveling alts, instead of doing the same stuff over and over.
What do you guys think?
Comments
Since I am not a huge fan of raiding either, I agree with you. I like additional PvP mini games / BGs as well so some company effort could be placed there.
second...
I just ended my WoW sub today. I can't keep holding out for the next patch in hopes of finding something to do.
"I don't like it so they should do it differently."
Sorry, devs only have the time, money, resources etc. to commit to created a certain amount of new content.
What's the better choice?
Create that content for
a. the vast majority of your playerbase that is at the level cap or well on their way there
b. the much much much much MUCH smaller % of players who lag behind and/or just keep re-rolling alts
It's a business decision.
If they are going to put forth the time and effort to make it they want the highest possible number of subscribers to experience it. Hence, adding end-game content.
This is elementary stuff people...
Your opinion is immaterial.
The only MMO that works is the one's that users create the content... I.E : EvE Online, Sandbox games,
One's that don't work... WoW... and every clone that spawned from it
I think continuous expansion of end game content is neccesary for any MMOs survival. However, I agree that I dont want all end game content to be raid only. For example, housing and trophies is solid end game content as well. Also, new quest lines for solo or small groups is often welcomed.
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
try eve online then...
I was going to say this.
But you beat me to it.
Otherwise, for a typical class base, quest oriented game, working as designed.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yes, WOW so doesn't work that it has broken every sales record for MMORPG's in history.
The only thing that could get me to go back to WoW (I left before the first expansion) is new classes you can play from the beginning. That's it.
New classes, new skills (low level), new low level pvp content. I'm with the OP on this one.
The real problem isn't that they keep adding new content for end game only, but that there is an "end game" in the first place. The problems many games have is that they make you progress so much that content becomes trivial, pointless, and useless once you pass the targetted level range. If they designed the game so that ALL of the content was always useful to the player, well that would solve your problem completely. Any new content added to the game wouldn't be for "end game", or for "lower levels", it would just be content, for everyone.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Yes, WOW so doesn't work that it has broken every sales record for MMORPG's in history.
Sales numbers have nothing to do with design flaws. Many things with flawed designs still sell VERY well. They are independent.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Whether or not you like the idea, most non-sandbox games have "end-game" activities. Why? So their level cap players do not cancel their subscriptions from boredom. If they spent their time making mid-level instances rather than end-game content, there would be a mass exodus from the game.
Whether a developer can afford the time or manpower to develop mid-level content AND end-game content is a financial issue. If they have limited resources and cannot afford to do both, they are going to satisfy the greater number of players.
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
Where did you get the information that the vast majority only enjoy end-game instances and raiding...last I heard they were the minority... by far.
They need to add more end-game content than rep-grinds, raids, and pvp-grinds. I think if hardly anyone made alts, there would be very little players to be seen at lower to mid levels.
Where did you get the information that the vast majority only enjoy end-game instances and raiding...last I heard they were the minority... by far.
They need to add more end-game content than rep-grinds, raids, and pvp-grinds. I think if hardly anyone made alts, there would be very little players to be seen at lower to mid levels.
I know what he was saying it was more about Most of the playerbase is at the level cap, and they keep adding content for those at the level cap. Problem is it's usually Raid content, not small group stuff.
So yes it makes sense to make more end game content them the low/mid areas... just not raids all the time.
Tho, I agree they should sometimes add some low/mid level stuff to make running alt not so boring.
Like other people have already pointed out, it's really a business decision.
If 90% of the players have their characters levels maxed out, then they need to create more game content for those players or they will lose subscribers.
The only other option, is to create new content so that players are encouraged to start over from level one. Going through the same 50 quests every time you start a new character isn't exciting (although for some players the pure challenge of levelling characters is exciting enough).
If developers are going to start making expansions that have more than just end-game content, then they need to be convinced that it will attract new subscribers, get old subscribers to resubscribed, or maintain current subscribers. For games like WoW with a 90% level 65 or up subscriber base, it is extremely unlikely that non end-game material will do that.
However, if there are enough players like yourself that are willing to walk away from the game entirely because you're not getting what you want, then they might start standing up and paying attention.
Agreed. And I think this stems from the fact that alot of these games have a 'static' world. Player actions don't actually affect the world in any great way.
The best solution is to not have an end game. Perma death + fun game while you level + many character build options = Now your early game, mid game and end game are all the same.
I Know it's a good buisness decision to add lots of end-game content, but I personaly, for most games can't stand to get to even level 20 if all to do is repetive quests and grinding to get to end-game just to do some less repetive grinding and quests and a few new features. They should focus to add more for both groups equally, hardcore fast-levelers and more casual players who like to roll alts. Or better yet, something both groups can do.
Speaking of which, MMOFPS games often get that last part down, but it's still repetive.
One of the things about WOW that sucks, and there are many, is not only nothing new to the base game or first xpac, they actually nerfed it so badly to remove any fun to be had by leveling alts. To save the "rapid level " boys the time i have already heard that nobody likes leveling and everyone wants to get to cap as fast as possible and that is why blizz did it. Doesnt matter why.
OP: They put in more end content to expand the game for people who dont have the attention span of a gold fish, the sort of people who like to make a new character every 3 seconds.
Their are a few games where you reach a point that the only thing to do is start another character, if this is the case, dev's aren't doing their job.
I thnk the best way to think of this is through two types of expansion in MMOs.
Expanding Vertically
Expanding Horizontally
"Sandbox" games tend to expand horizontally, while "themepark" games tend to expand vertically.
MMOs that expand vertically can be compared to climbing a ladder. Essentially you just keep going up, but the only way to experience new content is to reach the old "top". An issue with this is that deviations from what has previously worked is very rare. Why build a standing structure different from the way it has been done before? You'll risk it falling over if it doesn't turn out right. Player interaction is usually only with the people on the same level as you, and rarely does someone go back down to the beginning or lower regions as it tends to not be valuable.
Though you could expand on the base and lower regions, the majority of your population is sitting at the top waiting for somewhere to go.
MMOs that expand horizontally are like a circular swimming pool that keeps getting wider and deeper with every expansion. I'm immediately going to state that horizontal expansions have less of a "WOW! OOOH! AAAH!" factor than vertical expansions. But, all content tends to be accessible and valuable to a player of any skill or "level". It doesn't matter if you are a newbie or a 10 year vet... horizontal expansions will affect and interest nearly every player. The older players may have an easier time navigating the new content, but it is still available for the younger players to do. Player interaction can typically happen anywhere and to anyone... above, below, left, or right.
There are obvious cons to the two scenarios... in terms of PvP, horizontally expanding games tend to be more brutal since you encounter players of a wide range of experience and skill... while vertically expanding games tend to put players on the same level together. Economically, much content developed in a vertically expanding game is wasted, or only viable for a short time-period... where as horizontally expanding games tend to be able to leave content there, and players of any age/skill will use it.
In a horizontally expanding game, if the content doesn't seem appealing, it can be changed/tweaked with greater rewards and less punishment as players still have other things to do...They can continue to swim in the waters around them working on old stuff as it tends to remain viable through expansions. Try to do the same thing with content in a vertically expanding MMO, and you run into huge issues with players below and above.... like changing the steps on a ladder. If you make it appealing to the players already above that step, it will likely make it very difficult for the players below that step... will you provide them another route?
I could go on and on... but essentially it seems to work like this:
Horizontal expansion = slower, renewable, and longer lasting
Veritcal expansion = faster, bigger reaction, and short-lived
Except what the OP has stated is blatantly untrue. I don't know any MMO that has added ONLY end game content. Even the great WoW that everyone like to bash has added content for middle and low levels as well as end game content.
Therefore I would say that there is nothing to get tired of because they are doing what you want allready.
Venge Sunsoar
The majority are max level because they won't add more fun lower level content. If they did "invest" in such content more people would play alts I believe.
The majority are max level because they won't add more fun lower level content. If they did "invest" in such content more people would play alts I believe.
Only thing I can think to say about that is HORSE SHIT.
EDIT: After I got over that stupid comment let me add: Where the hell did you get "The majority" from? Is that a fact? Have you done a survey of the entire player base of MMORPG's and found more than 50% of people agree with the nonsense that you just came up with?
The problem is that you view end-game as raiding. If you can't stand end-game perhaps that's a sign that the game has failed for you. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with alts and people who like to play alts. However, the end game is the crucial element of mmos which if done right can add years of entertainment value. When done wrong (e.g. wow's forced raiding and pvp as the only end-game focus), you end up rerolling alts in an attempt to enjoy a game that obviously is no longer enjoyable. That's a failed mmo imo, and thus the reason I dont play wow or the wow clones.