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Some reasons why Cryptic did a good job
bstripp
Member Posts: 241
Well after playing many hours on the Beta I am pretty sure that this game has the legs to make a long run in the market. They have learned a number of lessons that other games would do well to learn. Mind you, they didn't invent all of them, but seem to have pick and choose the ones that make the most sense.
Originally I was going to write a long EOB review. However, there are enough of them floating around. So I am instead going to focus on what and why I think the game will succeed for many years to come.
(1) Single Server
I think all games have cycles where they gain and loose people. Obviously, you'd like to have a growth chart like WoW. Of course that's easier said than done. The problem comes when you have an initial flood of subs. For that population, which is rarely sustainable, you need a lot of servers or deal with ques and performance problems. Yet if your growth stalls, those servers quickly become half filled ghost towns. Ghost towns in turn drive people away to other games fearing that this is the end.
The sad thing is that many of those games have viable populations until they hit the cycle of server losses.
A single server model, even one as instanced as CO, solves that problem. You will never see server merges, half empty zones and the like as everyone is on the same server. There is no problem with trying to catch up with your friends, they are already there. Addiitionally, they can scale up and down the backend hardware with ease and not spook the herd. This is a model that is geared for long term success.
(2) Death Penalty
Yes, there is a certain crowd that wants full loot/full pvp... this is not the game for them. CO gives you bonuses for not dying but doesn't penalize you for doing so. That fits in very well with today's casual centric gamer. Many people are looking for entertainment, not work when they log into their game. CO delivers on that.
(3) Everyone is a Hero
This is a big step. Far to many games subscribe to the Tank-Buffer-Healer-DPS model of play. It's comfortable and has been around forever. For once, a company is stepping away from that. Sure you can make a character that fits into one of those roles, but you can also easily switch to another role as the need fits. I can not count the number of times teams have disolved because we have no support characters. Or the tank left, we can't go on.
Champions allows everyone to have elements of all of the classes and makes the generalist good enough to get through the content provided. Teams which specialize in certain ways will be more efficient, but it will be a rare time where people are stuck because they can't get the right team or people with the right gear.
Finally, the game doesn't shoehorn you into any of those percieved support classes either. Yet even if you go that way, you have enough DPS and survivability to solo at a good pace. With a skill or two, you can make a decent killer out of anyone.
(4) Better pacing
From the get go, you can play non stop. Resting between mobs: gone. Waiting for long recharges: gone. Waiting for respawns: kind of there... however, they have removed much of the down time and let you steamroller mobs one after another in rapid succession. It's a very liberating feeling. It's true that most games get you to that point, but CO does it from the beginning and it's very nice indeed.
(5) Early Travel Powers
There is nothing more annoying that spending half of your precious gaming time traveling from one spot to another. Eve could be the worst infraction on this, although most game have it to some degree or another. CO seemed just large enough (although that could be a problem later) to feel open, but with your travel power, small enough to get around quickly. Events are close together and travel times have mostly been eliminated.
(6) Smaller skill set
I know I am going to get some raised eyebrows on this, but think about whatever your favorite game is. Either they took the model of giving you tons of skills, each incrementally better. Or they have a smaller subset of abilities. CO took the smaller subset and went with that concept. By level 40 you have 5-10 core powers that you will use. They each offer something, and most have a couple of uses. Some would say that's not enough, but without cooldowns, do you need a second hold/root? No, you cast it again when you need it. How about a ST blast, do you need two? Not really if your first one is always ready for you.
So why is this an advantage? At best it would seem to be a push. Well a smaller number of skills is a much easier task to balance than trying to come up with distinct but balanced ideas for a half dozen ST blasts, or AOEs, or what not.
Summary:
There are certainly problems wth the title, like any new MMO. However, the beta was pretty smooth and more important, fun. I think this title will be around for years to come as they have removed many of the things that make MMOs a pain to play. Is it as deep as some games, no I don't think so. However, that's ok, if you are looking for something fun and different, this is a title that you should really consider.
Note: Edited in point #5 and #6 which I thought of later. Also, this is not meant to be a review, just the reasons why I think the game has the legs to last for a long time. Other people have done reviews, I just wanted to point out the game/business decisons that should make their title have some real longevity.
Comments
Nice review. The game isnt for everyone, but its a heck of alot of fun for me.
I had a blast making and playing super heroes.
See you in Head Start! or the live game at least. :P
Dax.
I disagree with your review, but this is only opinionated. I have not played for more than about 10 hrs, but so far I don't care for it. I find it laggy, the graphics suck, not challenging. Seems you go on forever without a break.
I know the graphics are supposed to look like a comic, but with the lack of graphics there shouldn't be the choppy lag. I was playing AoC on release graphics on full and saw no lag. {Not that I liked AoC} it just reminds me of a newer version of CoH.
I was looking forward to this game but the only way I will play this is if it is F2P
Very Disappointed
pretty much agree with everything you said.
one thing that crossed my mind, and too bad sine open betas done, would be 'shard hopping' the public missions. for example, kill mega destroid, get some solid xP and a nice item, switch shards till you find a mission in progress, kill destroid, get item/XP, repeat. i wis h i thought of it sooner, would have like to see how much faster or slower the XP gain would be compared to normal questing (although im sure someone else thought of it and experimented already lol).
Its not a perfect game but its a great game.
I certainly won't tell you that you should like the game. It's going to appeal to a certain set of people (I think a pretty large one... but that's my opinion). However, I've heard a lot about how the game will fail for this reason or that. I really don't see it happening for many of the reasons that I said above.
Think about the percieved failures of WAR and Conan. They had huge population spikes. Things looked great. Yet all of that initial interest was not bound to stick around. I think that's going to be one of the biggest challenges to MMOs in the near future: managing the initial rush. If you don't go with single servers, you risk have server merges. Start with too few servers and you ahve ques and lag. Any of those problems can outright kill a game before it gets going.
They obviously spent a lot of time trying to decide what was fun in a game and what was not. Their conclusion, which frankly mirriors mine, is that waiting is bad. Most games don't give you the tools to non stop kill/play until much later in the characters career. Whether its cooldowns or healing, you have too much time where you are just sitting around waiting.
That was the intention of my comments. I don't see this game failing. It might not appeal to everyone, and I don't see it having the lofty aspirations that WAR and Conan did. However, I do see it as being a significant player in the market for years to come.
I should have added the following as well:
(5) Early Travel Powers
There is nothing more annoying that spending half of your precious gaming time traveling from one spot to another. Eve could be the worst infraction on this, although most game have it to some degree or another. CO seemed just large enough (although that could be a problem later) to feel open, but with your travel power, small enough to get around quickly. Events are close together and travel times have mostly been eliminated.
(6) Smaller skill set
I know I am going to get some raised eyebrows on this, but think about whatever your favorite game is. Either they took the model of giving you tons of skills, each incrementally better. Or they have a smaller subset of abilities. CO took the smaller subset and went with that concept. By level 40 you have 5-10 core powers that you will use. They each offer something, and most have a couple of uses. Some would say that's not enough, but without cooldowns, do you need a second hold/root? No, you cast it again when you need it. How about a ST blast, do you need two? Not really if your first one is always ready for you.
So why is this an advantage? At best it would seem to be a push. Well a smaller number of skills is a much easier task to balance than trying to come up with distinct but balanced ideas for a half dozen ST blasts, or AOEs, or what not.
This is a good optimistic review. It's good in the fact that I agree with what is pointed out here. Although, it lacks cons to make it a real review. Anyways, I agree with what you say here on the pros.
Once again, this is my opinion but, Its Not Perfect and It's NOT great. Far from it.
It looks nicer than CoH, but CoH has it beat hands down. And I dont like CoH
No it will not fail. It has a folowing, as long as they are makeing money, it's not a Fail. WAR & AoC are not fails either, they make money. But I wont give my money to all 3.
Its not a great game, its a good game. I enjoy it alot and cant wait to play it live.
I also didnt have any of the problems people seem to have had with the lag and rubber banding. Wich I find odd since Im a Comcast user and have had problems in the past with them!
I found the art style to be very cool for a super hero game, looks like a comic book. Hehe.
Its a casual game, and i really enjoyed the little downtime there was in the game. Its what Ive been looking for in a game, little downtime, lots of killing stuff, easy leveling. You can solo fairly easy, or group up with friends for lairs or questing.
Dax
well said on both accounts. especially number 5, even the 500 lb gorilla has realized this, as the level requirements and cost of mounts goes down nearly every patch.
at first i was put off a bit by limited amounts of powers, then i realized exactly what you are saying. in additon, in other games, especially in PVE situations, i found myself using probably only a quarter of all the abilities i had anyway. so having fewer but using them all, thats just fine.
Once again, this is my opinion but, Its Not Perfect and It's NOT great. Far from it.
It looks nicer than CoH, but CoH has it beat hands down. And I dont like CoH
No it will not fail. It has a folowing, as long as they are makeing money, it's not a Fail. WAR & AoC are not fails either, they make money. But I wont give my money to all 3.
CoH has been out for .. what ?... 7 years now ?
CO will be a great game, but still have some stuff to fix and add to the game... Like the secret identities they were suppose to have in the game...
Once again, this is my opinion but, Its Not Perfect and It's NOT great. Far from it.
It looks nicer than CoH, but CoH has it beat hands down. And I dont like CoH
No it will not fail. It has a folowing, as long as they are makeing money, it's not a Fail. WAR & AoC are not fails either, they make money. But I wont give my money to all 3.
CoH has been out for .. what ?... 7 years now ?
CO will be a great game, but still have some stuff to fix and add to the game... Like the secret identities they were suppose to have in the game...
Exactly my point,. And it still beats the hell out of CO. Like I said. I don't like CoH either
Once again, this is my opinion but, Its Not Perfect and It's NOT great. Far from it.
It looks nicer than CoH, but CoH has it beat hands down. And I dont like CoH
No it will not fail. It has a folowing, as long as they are makeing money, it's not a Fail. WAR & AoC are not fails either, they make money. But I wont give my money to all 3.
CoH has been out for .. what ?... 7 years now ?
CO will be a great game, but still have some stuff to fix and add to the game... Like the secret identities they were suppose to have in the game...
i know some people mad a second costume to switch too for an alter ego, kind of a clark kent/superman thing.
i didnt know they were supposed to have alter egos in the game...wow wish they did - although with my robot character, my secret identity would be a toaster or somthing.
In my opinion, CO is a great MOG (think Diablo with battle.net, but on steroids) you log in, you fight a lot and thats about it. But based on what I prefer I wouldn't really say it even qualifies as an MMORPG. Consequently, I don't see it as worth a sub. Great MOG though, and I'd be willing to pay a one time price of 5 dollars just to have the char creator as a stand alone app. Which incidently if they released as a free stand alone app, could generate a LOT of subs, I bet.
Once again, this is my opinion but, Its Not Perfect and It's NOT great. Far from it.
It looks nicer than CoH, but CoH has it beat hands down. And I dont like CoH
No it will not fail. It has a folowing, as long as they are makeing money, it's not a Fail. WAR & AoC are not fails either, they make money. But I wont give my money to all 3.
CoH has been out for .. what ?... 7 years now ?
CO will be a great game, but still have some stuff to fix and add to the game... Like the secret identities they were suppose to have in the game...
CoH was out for only 5yrs . But your right Champions needs to fix and add to the game. Secret Identities i can live without . just need more power sets to choose from .
In open beta there is way to many bugs and a lot more lag, hopefully it will be all cleared up before headstart at least the lag.
I do have to admit CoX art style is alot better then CO. Dont really like the disney incredibles art style look.
Gameplay I think is alittle bit better in CO then CoX.
I wouldnt say CO would be my main MMO right now as there isnt much to offer then just lvl your toon.
We just have to wait to see ... Hopefully there will be a major update before the first 6mths is over as that is what i paid for.
ASUS G74sx
i7 quad core
16gb ddr3 ram
3gb ram Nvidia 560M
240GB SSD & 750GB
Well I would hope that CoH has it beat. It has several years of content that CO has yet to release. Certainly if I was trapped on a desert island with one server load of either CoH or CO, I would think that CoH has more content and things to do that CO. However, I would also say that CO has far more potential; which given a new engine you would expect. The premise of the game is fresh, the zones are very vell done and intuitive.
I would think that in a year to a year and half, there will be little comparison between the two games. I would think that CO will have bridged the content gap and surpassed its ancestor in terms of variety of things to do. However, given that NCSoft has hired a ton of developers and is working hard to keep the game going, perhaps not. If that is the case, then as consumers we will all be the better for it.
For me, I love CoH. However, there is little that I have not done thousands of times over in that game. Give me a couple of years, and they might have enough new that I want to play it again. However, for now, CO is looking very nice, very fun, and seems to have lots of potential to get even better.
Well I would hope that CoH has it beat. It has several years of content that CO has yet to release. Certainly if I was trapped on a desert island with one server load of either CoH or CO, I would think that CoH has more content and things to do that CO. However, I would also say that CO has far more potential; which given a new engine you would expect. The premise of the game is fresh, the zones are very vell done and intuitive.
I would think that in a year to a year and half, there will be little comparison between the two games. I would think that CO will have bridged the content gap and surpassed its ancestor in terms of variety of things to do. However, given that NCSoft has hired a ton of developers and is working hard to keep the game going, perhaps not. If that is the case, then as consumers we will all be the better for it.
For me, I love CoH. However, there is little that I have not done thousands of times over in that game. Give me a couple of years, and they might have enough new that I want to play it again. However, for now, CO is looking very nice, very fun, and seems to have lots of potential to get even better.
Here is the thing, they actually just used the same engine from CoH and modified it alittle to give what they want in the game.
Mostly everything that is released in CO was mostly in alpha Beta for CoH. They both had Super speed running up walls and all but each time took them out. CoH had custom colors for powers already but took them out until now (issue 16)
and you can see in one of the first builds that they had alot more powersets for CoH
like Shape shifting, plant control, sonic and alot more we didnt even see
In CoX everything that we got in game for the last couple years was already in game nothing new just reactivated and telling people that they have been working on the game for a few months making these "new" Issues.
the last video shows power selection the guy had fire blast and ice blast with ice sword and fire sword. and has a mission making thing that was in city hall.
ASUS G74sx
i7 quad core
16gb ddr3 ram
3gb ram Nvidia 560M
240GB SSD & 750GB
I agree that Champions Online has a solid foundation for what constitutes a good MMO. However, being made by Cryptic, I think this game is all too reminiscent of CoH/CoV. (Not trolling, but as far as gameplay goes, many of the abilities and travel forms and quests/monsters seem to be a "nicer" version of CoH/CoV) I only played roughly 10-12 hours, but once I started doing quests in Millennium City; there was a strange sense as if I had already played this game before (in a bad way). Maybe it's just me, but I got burned out of the repetitiveness in CoH/CoV and hope that Champions Online doesn't yield the same results. I was planning to purchase the retail version on Release, but now I might want to wait a month or so to see if the game is still going strong by then.
Just Curious, anyone else feel similarly? This game basically feels like a City of Heroes 2 to me.
Well, the problem with that is they didn't manage to get them balanced, at least not for the release. Power viability was all over the place really. There were only about three passive powers that were really 'good' with the rest ending up leaving you feeling squishy and killable, some of the ranged things had odd bugs in them with some powers obviously better than others (I'm looking at you eye beams), and while melee in general had issues single blade powers were just terrible.
I see nerfs in the future (especially regeneration).
Sure there will be balancing in the future. There is not a game made that has not had balancing as people figure out better ways of making their characters and some sets/powers perform better than others. For the most part we've had just a small sampling of builds/powers. I fully expect to see things changed... it's an MMO.
However, they've put themselves in a much better position than many games.
Look at WoW. Should you balance out the ST blasts? No. Or kind of. Since each character has to be looked at as a whole, it's far harder to make a case for balancing. Thus classes have a continual yo-yo effect of being top dog, then bad. Top dog, bad. It's really hard to balance 8-10 powers at a time and the stats and bonuses that go into a class.
Now when you have a powers based game, you can put X to Y and compare just those two. You are not worried that if you tweak Regeneration, that some entire class is now unplayable. You don't care that by lowering the damage on eye beams, that all "druids" or "paladins" are now unplayable. No, you simply adjust those powers and give people the ability to spec into/out of them. Since there is no class, the balancing job should be much easier and less painful for all involved.
It must be the in thing these days to claim that anything that doesn't have seemless zones, classes, servers, quests, and raids isn't an MMOG.
[Dundee is threatened by a mugger with a switchblade]
Sue Charlton: Mick, give him your wallet.
Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: What for?
Sue Charlton: He's got a knife.
Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: [chuckling] That's not a knife.
Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: [Dundee draws a large Bowie knife]
Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: *That's* a knife.
[Dundee slashes the teen mugger's jacket. He and his friends run away]
It must be the in thing these days to claim that anything that doesn't have seemless zones, classes, servers, quests, and raids isn't an MMOG.
EvE lacks all those things and not only do I think its an MMORPG, I think its an amazing one. So, not sure what you're talking about.
It must be the in thing these days to claim that anything that doesn't have seemless zones, classes, servers, quests, and raids isn't an MMOG.
[Dundee is threatened by a mugger with a switchblade]
Sue Charlton: Mick, give him your wallet.
Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: What for?
Sue Charlton: He's got a knife.
Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: [chuckling] That's not a knife.
Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: [Dundee draws a large Bowie knife]
Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: *That's* a knife.
[Dundee slashes the teen mugger's jacket. He and his friends run away]
I don't understand how anyone could think CO can have seamless zones. How are you supped to represent a plane trip to Canada? That is like a 4 hour flight in real life.
Simple answer is that anyone who thinks EQ2 is an MMORPG but that CO is not has simply confirmed that they are not competent to give an opinion on the matter. The size of the zones themselves and the overflow of population are almost exactly the same, in fact CO is less linear than many EQ2 zones and has more people per server. It is in fact superior to EQ2 in MMO part of MMORPG. Not saying its a better game or better grouping mechanics. But it has more people per server jammed into things of comparable size with comparable population.
And yes not all opinions are valid. There is such a term as "its a matter of opinion", but vast ignorance does in fact invalidate some opinions. Our Sun is not blue and any opinion whose main point hinges on the fact that they like how the blueness of the sun makes it cool or enjoyable or whatever is simply not valid unless that person is color blind (although I don't think there is a type of color blindness that could cause that outside of actual brain damage or drugs).
One of the funny things about the shard complaints is it comes from people who demand that MMORPG must = Massive yet they also hate it when servers get so massive that the "community" suffers since everyone is a face in the crowd.
In point of fact these people want an MMMO, a Mediumly Massive Multiplayer Online game. Its is all rather silly, people can't get past their arbitrary formulae and try to destroy anything that doesn't fit because that is apparently the only way to make arbitrary formulae consistent, just massage the facts and your predictions are always right and you can feel safe.
Right on! Get in, Game on, Have Fun, Game off, switch characters around, no lame griefing or stupid group issues fighting over drops...pfft drops? lol so old. UO style is dead.
It must be the in thing these days to claim that anything that doesn't have seemless zones, classes, servers, quests, and raids isn't an MMOG.
[Dundee is threatened by a mugger with a switchblade]
Sue Charlton: Mick, give him your wallet.
Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: What for?
Sue Charlton: He's got a knife.
Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: [chuckling] That's not a knife.
Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: [Dundee draws a large Bowie knife]
Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: *That's* a knife.
[Dundee slashes the teen mugger's jacket. He and his friends run away]
I don't understand how anyone could think CO can have seamless zones. How are you supped to represent a plane trip to Canada? That is like a 4 hour flight in real life.
Simple answer is that anyone who thinks EQ2 is an MMORPG but that CO is not has simply confirmed that they are not competent to give an opinion on the matter. The size of the zones themselves and the overflow of population are almost exactly the same, in fact CO is less linear than many EQ2 zones and has more people per server. It is in fact superior to EQ2 in MMO part of MMORPG. Not saying its a better game or better grouping mechanics. But it has more people per server jammed into things of comparable size with comparable population.
And yes not all opinions are valid. There is such a term as "its a matter of opinion", but vast ignorance does in fact invalidate some opinions. Our Sun is not blue and any opinion whose main point hinges on the fact that they like how the blueness of the sun makes it cool or enjoyable or whatever is simply not valid unless that person is color blind (although I don't think there is a type of color blindness that could cause that outside of actual brain damage or drugs).
One of the funny things about the shard complaints is it comes from people who demand that MMORPG must = Massive yet they also hate it when servers get so massive that the "community" suffers since everyone is a face in the crowd.
In point of fact these people want an MMMO, a Mediumly Massive Multiplayer Online game. Its is all rather silly, people can't get past their arbitrary formulae and try to destroy anything that doesn't fit because that is apparently the only way to make arbitrary formulae consistent, just massage the facts and your predictions are always right and you can feel safe.
Well I know you're not talking about me since I didn't say anything about seamless zones. I'll tell you who's not competent to speak on a matter is someone who imagines what the other person is talking about then argues against their own imagination.
Once again, this is my opinion but, Its Not Perfect and It's NOT great. Far from it.
It looks nicer than CoH, but CoH has it beat hands down. And I dont like CoH
No it will not fail. It has a folowing, as long as they are makeing money, it's not a Fail. WAR & AoC are not fails either, they make money. But I wont give my money to all 3.
Good then we don't have to see a post from you again here in CO General Discussion. Its got, my opinion, most games if not all games beat. I have played CoH for 5 years and this game is better by a long shot.