It could be a game that alot of people have a good time with but save the genre is to much man. Your post reminds me of a scene in a movie like the never ending story or something. I sure as hell hope i have a good time in it and i couldnt careless how many subs it gets as long as its enough to keep the servers up heh. I play games for fun, not for how many other people are having fun playing it.
Seriously. Bioware delivers. Even if it's a KOTOR 3 with added multiplayer, the background story alone will blow you away. I mean what other games have such complex narratives. It's gonna be like being part of a gigantic movie with hours of great stories, twisting and turning, drawing you in. I mean just listen to the voiceovers in KOTOR 1 and 2, those actors are top notch, delivering their lines with emotion fitting the respective situations. Sadly still a rare thing in video gaming. The one thing i miss in MMORPGs is story, giving you a purpose. Knowing that ship you just boarded carries information that might change the whole war will be alot more motivating than being told to go kill 20 bears because some strange dwarf needs new blankets. Anyway, ToR >> WoW. Discuss.
Narration and voice overs do a game good i agree,but IMO the rest of the game is real bad,dialogue or story will not save it.
The other thing is..."complex narrative"?? i think not ,it will be a few pre scripted choices for each NPC,all following a linear path,Bioware will not invent anything new here.The reason is obvious,they did not put much "complex" effort into the rest of the game,so why would i expect it in the dialogue?
For myself,i need to step into a gaming world and see a nice looking game world with good looking objects and texture use,without it all or any immersion would be lost.
It's like saying ,you could add a great dialogue to Mabinogi and all of a sudden the game rocks?i think not.Mabinogi could have narration sent from the heavens and it would still be a sub par game no better than a 2/10.
Bioware's version of SW's is not much better the graphics look god awful,imo nothing could warrant the game a good rating.What makes it worse is that i have seen many games with bad graphics,but the effort put into utilizing them made up for alot of it,this game looks like 2nd rate graphic design students all the way.
One thing for sure is i hope to god ,Bioware did not spend much on the game engine,it's worse than Blizzard's Warcraft engine and that is not a good thing.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Seriously. Bioware delivers. Even if it's a KOTOR 3 with added multiplayer, the background story alone will blow you away. I mean what other games have such complex narratives. It's gonna be like being part of a gigantic movie with hours of great stories, twisting and turning, drawing you in. I mean just listen to the voiceovers in KOTOR 1 and 2, those actors are top notch, delivering their lines with emotion fitting the respective situations. Sadly still a rare thing in video gaming. The one thing i miss in MMORPGs is story, giving you a purpose. Knowing that ship you just boarded carries information that might change the whole war will be alot more motivating than being told to go kill 20 bears because some strange dwarf needs new blankets. Anyway, ToR >> WoW. Discuss.
SW ToR Is the final nail in the coffin. With this every dream of major studios doing sandbox and non-linear games dies (died).
If it will be a huge succes with the average gamer, then it spells doom for those of us who loves persistent worlds!
Its been a long time since I played a descent put-together game. Even if this is just KoTOR 3 Id gladly pay monthly for the time I play then to sit and be tormented with this other crap we have been fed latetly. Fallout 3 was a great torch in the dark but it didnt last very long... still it was the best game Ive played in years, before that it was Mass Effect... and remind me who made both those games again.
Bioware produced 2 great games in a short amount of time, they gave us quality whilst before there were only crap (give or take the 5 last years).
Quality before quantity will always win in the end because content can be added but a ravaged reputation is near impossible fixing. Thats one of the reasons EvE for instance will outlive any of the other mainstream mmos released to date.
There are many assumptions on this thread, while the opposite has been hinted:
1. Many seem to think this game will have a subscription model when "midsession minitransaction" model has been hinted at - this relates to purchasing new content. So you could quit for a while and wait for new content to become available without having to pay subscription fees.
2. Claims that this is not MMO because it has instanced or "linear" content - well is WoW a MMO? Quests and zones are linear themeparks while the end-game is largely instanced. Some people seem to have a notion that they know what MMOs should be like - this is a fallacy - there are many subgenres. I call this type of people as MMO purists/fundamentalists. It as pointless to argue with them as it would be to argue with Young Earth Creationist about evolution of life on earth.
I never really felt that Bioware RPGs have been linear. Linear to me is like many FPSs are, or like Diablo series is. While zones in Bioware games might be smaller, they usually are designed well and when added to other game mechanics create the feeling of freedom, and thus immersion. This combined with branched approach in storytelling - aka making choices - you will have a pretty solid formula for immersive narrative.
I would take Mass Effect style storytelling in a MMO over Blizzard type of quest system any day.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Its been a long time since I played a descent put-together game. Even if this is just KoTOR 3 Id gladly pay monthly for the time I play then to sit and be tormented with this other crap we have been fed latetly. Fallout 3 was a great torch in the dark but it didnt last very long... still it was the best game Ive played in years, before that it was Mass Effect... and remind me who made both those games again. Bioware produced 2 great games in a short amount of time, they gave us quality whilst before there were only crap (give or take the 5 last years). Quality before quantity will always win in the end because content can be added but a ravaged reputation is near impossible fixing. Thats one of the reasons EvE for instance will outlive any of the other mainstream mmos released to date.
Fallout 3 was made by Bethesda, not Bioware.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
It may become the next WoW...then what? We will see clone after clone of this game to the point of being sick of it. I doubt it will do much out of the ordinary to MMOs. The only thing that will bring some life back to MMOs is for devs to start thinking outside the level/loot system and start making actual online worlds that players can truely interact with.
Seriously. Bioware delivers. Even if it's a KOTOR 3 with added multiplayer, the background story alone will blow you away. I mean what other games have such complex narratives. It's gonna be like being part of a gigantic movie with hours of great stories, twisting and turning, drawing you in. I mean just listen to the voiceovers in KOTOR 1 and 2, those actors are top notch, delivering their lines with emotion fitting the respective situations. Sadly still a rare thing in video gaming. The one thing i miss in MMORPGs is story, giving you a purpose. Knowing that ship you just boarded carries information that might change the whole war will be alot more motivating than being told to go kill 20 bears because some strange dwarf needs new blankets. Anyway, ToR >> WoW. Discuss.
I appreciate your trying to get a debate going but its a stupid statement in the begining.
Some of you still cant get through your heads the difference between story and lore in a MMO, one will put u in a living story board where ultimatly your world is restricted the other will set you free.
How exactly is this gonna save mmos? It may become the next WoW...then what? We will see clone after clone of this game to the point of being sick of it. I doubt it will do much out of the ordinary to MMOs. The only thing that will bring some life back to MMOs is for devs to start thinking outside the level/loot system and start making actual online worlds that players can truely interact with.
Adding higher level of production values to an AAA MMO game. Just what Blizzard did with WoW. Adding branched narrative with VOs is rather large and costly undertaking.
The level and loot system is hardly what needs to be changed, it is a proven formula.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Knowing that ship you just boarded carries information that might change the whole war....
Except that anyone with any sense at all would realize that their actions will NOT change the whole war. No matter what you do on that ship it will have no impact what-so-ever on the world or the war or anything outside your own character.
Think about it a little. Let's say that your choice on that ship is to destroy it or save it from being destroyed. Ok, so maybe you decide to save it. And simultaneously I play through that mission and I decide to destroy it. What you did has no impact on me and what I did has no impact on you. Neither of us have any impact on the overall game world. Nor do any of the thousands of other players who decided to save or destroy that same ship.
If they were going to make a game in which our actions actually had some meaning beyond our own personal experience they would have to make a large non-instanced game world in which we all experience the SAME world and not personal, private versions of alternate realities that are all totally disconnected from each other like they are doing.
If everyone were playing in one consistant, non-instanced world...all in the same world, then our actions might have some impact. Then we might really be able to influence things outside of our own characters. But that's not what they are doing with this game so any illusion of purpose or meaning or world changing impact that you might get will be just that, an illusion.
Why fix something that isn't broken? DikuMUD derived formula has worked nearly 20 years. Note, this is not to say that there ain't room for other type of games, but this particular formula does not really need changing.
fix =! change.
There's no need to 'fix' it. There's a need to change it. One of the reasons stated above (20 years is a long time to go without any new innovations dont'cha think)
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Why fix something that isn't broken? DikuMUD derived formula has worked nearly 20 years. Note, this is not to say that there ain't room for other type of games, but this particular formula does not really need changing.
fix =! change.
There's no need to 'fix' it. There's a need to change it. One of the reasons stated above (20 years is a long time to go without any new innovations dont'cha think)
I'm going to be honest and say I have no idea what many of you are talking about. Everyone says the gameplay is same old, or the leveling is same old, or the game is too linear, or a countless number of other arguments when they really don't know.
You get the people who say they don't want to play it because its a single player game with added multiplayer, then you get the others that say its just like every other MMO (hence not making it a single player game at all) then you have those that say it will not have X, Y, or Z, or that the game is too linear (linear missions? linear progression? linear levels? what about it seems linear?) and then of course. those that say this isn't SWG Pre NGE... or moreso accusing it of being the NGE 2.0.
None of this makes any sense to me. I'm not saying ToR isn't any of those things, but what I'm saying is I don't really know quite what it IS yet... and if I don't know... I wonder how everyone else does... especially since I've been reading all the information I can and watching the videos as much as possible. Where do you all get your information from?
Seriously. Bioware delivers. Even if it's a KOTOR 3 with added multiplayer, the background story alone will blow you away. I mean what other games have such complex narratives. It's gonna be like being part of a gigantic movie with hours of great stories, twisting and turning, drawing you in. I mean just listen to the voiceovers in KOTOR 1 and 2, those actors are top notch, delivering their lines with emotion fitting the respective situations. Sadly still a rare thing in video gaming. The one thing i miss in MMORPGs is story, giving you a purpose. Knowing that ship you just boarded carries information that might change the whole war will be alot more motivating than being told to go kill 20 bears because some strange dwarf needs new blankets. Anyway, ToR >> WoW. Discuss.
MMOs need to be saved? I wont argue that TOR wont be a good game. Bioware makes awesome games.
But in a genre with hundreds of games that fill all types of playstyles one game is supposed to save a genre?
Why fix something that isn't broken? DikuMUD derived formula has worked nearly 20 years. Note, this is not to say that there ain't room for other type of games, but this particular formula does not really need changing.
fix =! change.
There's no need to 'fix' it. There's a need to change it. One of the reasons stated above (20 years is a long time to go without any new innovations dont'cha think)
Well there seems to be quite a few things Bioware is already adding or changing, but many complain even about those things. Change it too much and it is a very risky decision business wise.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
no my friends tor will not save mmos what would save mmos would be someone coming out with a full on sandbox game with everything we players want
TOR? it's going to be a boring single player rpg where you can group up with one other person. let me tell you what will happen when TOR comes out all of you will play it for maybe a week get bored and start asking how TOR could fail.
no my friends tor will not save mmos what would save mmos would be someone coming out with a full on sandbox game with everything we players want TOR? it's going to be a boring single player rpg where you can group up with one other person. let me tell you what will happen when TOR comes out all of you will play it for maybe a week get bored and start asking how TOR could fail.
no my friends tor will not save mmos what would save mmos would be someone coming out with a full on sandbox game with everything we players want TOR? it's going to be a boring single player rpg where you can group up with one other person. let me tell you what will happen when TOR comes out all of you will play it for maybe a week get bored and start asking how TOR could fail.
Proof you will only group with one other person? OH thats right, you just make shit up. Sorry.
If they were going to make a game in which our actions actually had some meaning beyond our own personal experience they would have to make a large non-instanced game world in which we all experience the SAME world and not personal, private versions of alternate realities that are all totally disconnected from each other like they are doing. If everyone were playing in one consistant, non-instanced world...all in the same world, then our actions might have some impact. Then we might really be able to influence things outside of our own characters. But that's not what they are doing with this game so any illusion of purpose or meaning or world changing impact that you might get will be just that, an illusion.
Then one of two things would happen if a game worked like this.
1. Everything would respawn and you could go do it all over again. Nothing really world changing there.
2. There would be nothing left in the game to kill or interact with except other players. I prefer illusion in my games instead of barren worlds with nothing left in them except XxDarthVader69xX still begging for credits.
I am approaching TOR as an online RPG, and thats it. It is far from what I enjoy in an MMO. So I have no plans to play it like I would an MMO.
Strangely, I'm going to agree. I don't think BioWare want this game to be played like an MMO. If you think how MMOs are played, a large number of quests and dialogue never really even get read... missions are taken, and many players are looking for reward rather then storyline. I think it would be foolish to play ToR like that... I like the idea of making your personal character feel like the star as in an RPG, although I'm very interested to see how the stories will interweave to include multiplayer action.
Comments
Classical case of flamebait post. I would like this thread to be deleted.
NEW IDEAS that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs
It could be a game that alot of people have a good time with but save the genre is to much man. Your post reminds me of a scene in a movie like the never ending story or something. I sure as hell hope i have a good time in it and i couldnt careless how many subs it gets as long as its enough to keep the servers up heh. I play games for fun, not for how many other people are having fun playing it.
Narration and voice overs do a game good i agree,but IMO the rest of the game is real bad,dialogue or story will not save it.
The other thing is..."complex narrative"?? i think not ,it will be a few pre scripted choices for each NPC,all following a linear path,Bioware will not invent anything new here.The reason is obvious,they did not put much "complex" effort into the rest of the game,so why would i expect it in the dialogue?
For myself,i need to step into a gaming world and see a nice looking game world with good looking objects and texture use,without it all or any immersion would be lost.
It's like saying ,you could add a great dialogue to Mabinogi and all of a sudden the game rocks?i think not.Mabinogi could have narration sent from the heavens and it would still be a sub par game no better than a 2/10.
Bioware's version of SW's is not much better the graphics look god awful,imo nothing could warrant the game a good rating.What makes it worse is that i have seen many games with bad graphics,but the effort put into utilizing them made up for alot of it,this game looks like 2nd rate graphic design students all the way.
One thing for sure is i hope to god ,Bioware did not spend much on the game engine,it's worse than Blizzard's Warcraft engine and that is not a good thing.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
SW ToR Is the final nail in the coffin. With this every dream of major studios doing sandbox and non-linear games dies (died).
If it will be a huge succes with the average gamer, then it spells doom for those of us who loves persistent worlds!
It is a very sad development!!!!!
____________________________
CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
____________________________
Its been a long time since I played a descent put-together game. Even if this is just KoTOR 3 Id gladly pay monthly for the time I play then to sit and be tormented with this other crap we have been fed latetly. Fallout 3 was a great torch in the dark but it didnt last very long... still it was the best game Ive played in years, before that it was Mass Effect... and remind me who made both those games again.
Bioware produced 2 great games in a short amount of time, they gave us quality whilst before there were only crap (give or take the 5 last years).
Quality before quantity will always win in the end because content can be added but a ravaged reputation is near impossible fixing. Thats one of the reasons EvE for instance will outlive any of the other mainstream mmos released to date.
There are many assumptions on this thread, while the opposite has been hinted:
1. Many seem to think this game will have a subscription model when "midsession minitransaction" model has been hinted at - this relates to purchasing new content. So you could quit for a while and wait for new content to become available without having to pay subscription fees.
2. Claims that this is not MMO because it has instanced or "linear" content - well is WoW a MMO? Quests and zones are linear themeparks while the end-game is largely instanced. Some people seem to have a notion that they know what MMOs should be like - this is a fallacy - there are many subgenres. I call this type of people as MMO purists/fundamentalists. It as pointless to argue with them as it would be to argue with Young Earth Creationist about evolution of life on earth.
I never really felt that Bioware RPGs have been linear. Linear to me is like many FPSs are, or like Diablo series is. While zones in Bioware games might be smaller, they usually are designed well and when added to other game mechanics create the feeling of freedom, and thus immersion. This combined with branched approach in storytelling - aka making choices - you will have a pretty solid formula for immersive narrative.
I would take Mass Effect style storytelling in a MMO over Blizzard type of quest system any day.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Fallout 3 was made by Bethesda, not Bioware.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I agree with this topic.
How exactly is this gonna save mmos?
It may become the next WoW...then what? We will see clone after clone of this game to the point of being sick of it. I doubt it will do much out of the ordinary to MMOs. The only thing that will bring some life back to MMOs is for devs to start thinking outside the level/loot system and start making actual online worlds that players can truely interact with.
I appreciate your trying to get a debate going but its a stupid statement in the begining.
Some of you still cant get through your heads the difference between story and lore in a MMO, one will put u in a living story board where ultimatly your world is restricted the other will set you free.
Adding higher level of production values to an AAA MMO game. Just what Blizzard did with WoW. Adding branched narrative with VOs is rather large and costly undertaking.
The level and loot system is hardly what needs to be changed, it is a proven formula.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Except that anyone with any sense at all would realize that their actions will NOT change the whole war. No matter what you do on that ship it will have no impact what-so-ever on the world or the war or anything outside your own character.
Think about it a little. Let's say that your choice on that ship is to destroy it or save it from being destroyed. Ok, so maybe you decide to save it. And simultaneously I play through that mission and I decide to destroy it. What you did has no impact on me and what I did has no impact on you. Neither of us have any impact on the overall game world. Nor do any of the thousands of other players who decided to save or destroy that same ship.
If they were going to make a game in which our actions actually had some meaning beyond our own personal experience they would have to make a large non-instanced game world in which we all experience the SAME world and not personal, private versions of alternate realities that are all totally disconnected from each other like they are doing.
If everyone were playing in one consistant, non-instanced world...all in the same world, then our actions might have some impact. Then we might really be able to influence things outside of our own characters. But that's not what they are doing with this game so any illusion of purpose or meaning or world changing impact that you might get will be just that, an illusion.
These are exactly the only things that needs changing.
all eggs in 1 basket does not a good plan make.
dont overhype to yourself, its just grounds for disappointment.
These are exactly the only things that needs changing.
Why fix something that isn't broken? DikuMUD derived formula has worked nearly 20 years.
Note, this is not to say that there ain't room for other type of games, but this particular formula does not really need changing.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
fix =! change.
There's no need to 'fix' it. There's a need to change it. One of the reasons stated above (20 years is a long time to go without any new innovations dont'cha think)
fix =! change.
There's no need to 'fix' it. There's a need to change it. One of the reasons stated above (20 years is a long time to go without any new innovations dont'cha think)
I'm going to be honest and say I have no idea what many of you are talking about. Everyone says the gameplay is same old, or the leveling is same old, or the game is too linear, or a countless number of other arguments when they really don't know.
You get the people who say they don't want to play it because its a single player game with added multiplayer, then you get the others that say its just like every other MMO (hence not making it a single player game at all) then you have those that say it will not have X, Y, or Z, or that the game is too linear (linear missions? linear progression? linear levels? what about it seems linear?) and then of course. those that say this isn't SWG Pre NGE... or moreso accusing it of being the NGE 2.0.
None of this makes any sense to me. I'm not saying ToR isn't any of those things, but what I'm saying is I don't really know quite what it IS yet... and if I don't know... I wonder how everyone else does... especially since I've been reading all the information I can and watching the videos as much as possible. Where do you all get your information from?
MMOs need to be saved? I wont argue that TOR wont be a good game. Bioware makes awesome games.
But in a genre with hundreds of games that fill all types of playstyles one game is supposed to save a genre?
Trying playing more games than WoW.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
fix =! change.
There's no need to 'fix' it. There's a need to change it. One of the reasons stated above (20 years is a long time to go without any new innovations dont'cha think)
Well there seems to be quite a few things Bioware is already adding or changing, but many complain even about those things. Change it too much and it is a very risky decision business wise.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
no my friends tor will not save mmos what would save mmos would be someone coming out with a full on sandbox game with everything we players want
TOR? it's going to be a boring single player rpg where you can group up with one other person. let me tell you what will happen when TOR comes out all of you will play it for maybe a week get bored and start asking how TOR could fail.
Sandbox is about dead, get over it.
Proof you will only group with one other person? OH thats right, you just make shit up. Sorry.
Then one of two things would happen if a game worked like this.
1. Everything would respawn and you could go do it all over again. Nothing really world changing there.
2. There would be nothing left in the game to kill or interact with except other players. I prefer illusion in my games instead of barren worlds with nothing left in them except XxDarthVader69xX still begging for credits.
I am approaching TOR as an online RPG, and thats it. It is far from what I enjoy in an MMO. So I have no plans to play it like I would an MMO.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Strangely, I'm going to agree. I don't think BioWare want this game to be played like an MMO. If you think how MMOs are played, a large number of quests and dialogue never really even get read... missions are taken, and many players are looking for reward rather then storyline. I think it would be foolish to play ToR like that... I like the idea of making your personal character feel like the star as in an RPG, although I'm very interested to see how the stories will interweave to include multiplayer action.