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Bait and switch tactics here?
Lamarak
Member Posts: 61
Recently the game went under a pretty big change( nerf) that really changed the game quite a bit. Now , Im not saying that games shouldnt have changes, but i just feel a bit dirty in the way this was handled.
I just dont understand how these problems that they are now worried about ( ease of leveling, power curve. etc etc) now all of sudden are game breaking to them. These problems and concerns where addressed in open beta.
Just seems to me they let the players feel these powers at this level and want to buy the game, and now have prolly a decent amount of purchases, are now toning down the powers and making the bad guys tougher.
I would have much more respect if they did they did these sweeping changes in beta when it was apparant the game was easy and to fast to level. I think they did the classic bait and switch.
I cant post this in the champions forums because i feel it would be quickly closed and deleted. But i think the points i bring up are valid.
Comments
The only people that would have any valid complains would be the ones that played during the head-start. Cryptic will now offer a Free Retcon and there's even people posting that Cryptic is also offering refunds for those that purchased the 6 month and Lifetime deals.
So again where is the bait and switch?
I find your points valid, I went on to play this game under the impression that it was solo friendly, almost no cool downs for most powers and the ability to really make whatever kind of build you wanted and still be successful in game. All of that changed on Launch day with that stupid patch, but like I said, I see no bait and switch here.
Maybe the fast level and such was for testing all parts of leveling/quests/etc before lowering the xp and making the hencemen harder? Only thing I can really think of.
I think the most annoying part is watching or reading interviews about what you should be able to do in the game, knowing that it was true until the nerf patch and now seeing a game that in no way delivers the product adverticed.
"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."
What amazes me is that people still confuse "Beta Testing" with "This was an advanced preview/trial/advertisement of a finished game that will never change from Beta".
Beta TESTING is a chance to evaluate and test. Gives the devs a chance to say "Hey, what would it be like if we dialed up this power...Oops, thats broken, we need to CHANGE it".
Code takes a while to write and implement though and must go through their own internal changes. So it's possible that the DAY ONE changes you saw were intended by the developers and they didn't write them on day one. They may have been working on them for a while and only got a chance to implement on day 0 due to a production date set by suits who had already agreed to that delivery date to coincide with advertising and other commitments in the marketplace.
You BETA TESTED the game. Keep repeating the word "Test". Thats not a trial period, thats not an advertisement. That is a TEST.
The MMO developers NEED to be able to change. Granted, it made it less powerful but having been in a few PVP matches that went on endlessly due to PPF and Teleport I can see how it was neccesary.
The only thing I hope is they just give everyone a free respec on all characters after each code change. That to me would be a fair comprimise and I'll bet they do eventually.
Yeah agree with what you are saying. I was in beta and it was WAY to easy. Everyone knew it too. Things didn't require much strategy going into encounters and people got used to it. I was actually happy when the change was made mainly since the official start is my third revision of this toon and he is much better after 3 revisions. I personally think that the change was for the better and makes the game a better experience since you have to actually look at the encounter you are going into and change your strats to win each encounter.
Games not perfect but man around 15 something clicked in my brain and the system started making sense in a a good way. The ability to alter and change your powers with perks and advantages is really cool and the combat is the best bar none I've ever been apart of. Those saying its simply spamming 3 buttons over and over probably didn't get to their higher tier powers. I was actually one of those people pre lvl 15 that thought it seemed like a over simple mmo but just wait it gets so much better.
Honestly if I had one thing i could change its the fact you can take premade groups into pvp. Its a huge advantage and destroys any fun the pug team was going to try to have. PVP is alot of fun when two pug groups go toe to toe and I imagine two organized teams would be fun as well but one pug and one premade just equals pointless pvp and I don't say this because I died alot in those games. In reality I never went sub 1/1 k/d but when you deal with a team that is clearly a clan with set parts in place and then you look at the guys next to you, you quickly realize there is no point in even having the fight. Premade teams should be placed in their own que against other premades but then the clans would whine since their leverage would be gone.
So you're saying the head start period for pre-ordering was a beta test? Or I'm missing something...
Because the changes happened after head start... not at the end of beta... or...
So you're saying the head start period for pre-ordering was a beta test? Or I'm missing something...
Because the changes happened after head start... not at the end of beta... or...
They gave free respecs to the headstart guys. LIke I said the game was to easy before the change and the entire community knew it.
So you're saying the head start period for pre-ordering was a beta test? Or I'm missing something...
Because the changes happened after head start... not at the end of beta... or...
They gave free respecs to the headstart guys. LIke I said the game was to easy before the change and the entire community knew it.
Which has nothing to do with what I quoted or why I responded. From what I quoted the person was making the statement that the game was in "beta". That people who expected the game to be like "beta" were baiscly clueless etc
Multiple paragraphs about "beta" .. "beta test" and "test"
or just one sentence..
"You BETA TESTED the game. Keep repeating the word "Test". Thats not a trial period, thats not an advertisement. That is a TEST."
The changes made were on "live" launch day at the end of "headstart"... NOT after the BETA TEST... so the point of them issuing respecs etc was not what I was talking about.... I was reponding to what I quoted.
So I'm not sure why you responded to me about the challenge level or lack of... In fact I made no comment other than the fact the game was NOT changed directly at the end of beta. As I have no opinion of them changing the game one way or the other..
*edit* I'll edit this in to try to make it clear as somehow things don't seem to be there. If the person I quoted had simply said "Its an MMO and balance changes will be made" ... I would have not even responded. Its just the statement was made as if "head start" didn't even exist with a live player base that was NOT testing.
So you're saying the head start period for pre-ordering was a beta test? Or I'm missing something...
Because the changes happened after head start... not at the end of beta... or...
They gave free respecs to the headstart guys. LIke I said the game was to easy before the change and the entire community knew it.
They posted that head start people would get free respecs, not that they have actually given them out yet.
No bait and switch as far as I can tell. I am disappointed that they felt they needed such a big nerf so early in the game. They did need to tune xp, but the nerf was overkill.
I still have faith they will work it out, im taking a day or two ff to play with Aion and see whats that about. I have faith. After all there in it to make money, and they will do that only if they sell subs.
Dax.
So you're saying the head start period for pre-ordering was a beta test? Or I'm missing something...
Because the changes happened after head start... not at the end of beta... or...
They gave free respecs to the headstart guys. LIke I said the game was to easy before the change and the entire community knew it.
Which has nothing to do with what I quoted or why I responded. From what I quoted the person was making the statement that the game was in "beta". That people who expected the game to be like "beta" were baiscly clueless etc
Multiple paragraphs about "beta" .. "beta test" and "test"
or just one sentence..
"You BETA TESTED the game. Keep repeating the word "Test". Thats not a trial period, thats not an advertisement. That is a TEST."
The changes made were on "live" launch day at the end of "headstart"... NOT after the BETA TEST... so the point of them issuing respecs etc was not what I was talking about.... I was reponding to what I quoted.
So I'm not sure why you responded to me about the challenge level or lack of... In fact I made no comment other than the fact the game was NOT changed directly at the end of beta. As I have no opinion of them changing the game one way or the other..
*edit* I'll edit this in to try to make it clear as somehow things don't seem to be there. If the person I quoted had simply said "Its an MMO and balance changes will be made" ... I would have not even responded. Its just the statement was made as if "head start" didn't even exist with a live player base that was NOT testing.
Gotcha, I don't consider it a bait and switch though regardless if the change did happen after launch. We all had to see the change coming, I just assumed in beta that the lvling was made easier since we were there to test content. Would make since to speed things up and make things easier in that situation. I see what your saying though, game has flaws I just felt like alot of people made a mountain out of a molehill tbh.
I always had this feeling like Cryptic had no real clue how to add lasting value to this game. In essence the game is all a pew pew action console game. There is really little else of substance in it. I mean, it was cool pew pew when the pew pew was fast and action-ish. Now with the nerfs even that which was fun, because it was fast paced and no need to worry too much, it has become slow and sluggish. It's like they nerfed the last bit of fun out of it, and nerfing the combat, the only really fun thing in the very last minute seems very odd to me.
I guess they realized way too late that the game severly lacks in anything but the action combat. At least thats how I felt about the game. Very cool action combat but quite hollow in every other area.
By the very nature a Superhero MMO should make the gamers feel SUPER, and not like too hard work or tiptoeing every step through the map, because I felt that was very much taking out the Super from Superhero. A Superhero MMO cant be made like any other MMO, because of the idea of a Superhero. Especially if you make such an action combat game, which REALLY used to be cool about 3 weeks before beta ended. Now the combat just feels slow, it kinda has taken the action feel away. And I just deny this is only because of the comparision. It is just a contradiction to make an action game like this and then slow it down so much. I always thought the ideal Superhero combat is like a console game where the hero bashes his way through masses of opponents, killing them in moments but its made up by mass. Someone made the Dynasty Warrior example somewhere and I found that a very fitting idea. A DW6 mob is killed in seconds, but you feel like a Superhero, because you kill masses fast. You don't hack on one mobs endless and then move to the next like in EQ or WOW. For such a slow paced combat the combat system just has not enough substance, it is designed for a very fast pace. Insofar Cryptic sorta crippled it's own game in my perspective, and saying that has nothing to do with whining or what, its my observations.
Cryptic just did not pay enough attention to any lasting values. You play the same tutorial, which is considerably longer than the CoX tuts, then the same 2 zones, desert or Canada, and its always the same. Replay value: almost zero. Which is sort of odd in a CoX follower, where making alts was one of the MAJOR factors to stay subscribed! I really think the dropped the ball on how to make a modern Superhero MMO with lasting value. Its not an entirely bad game, but those nerfs and XP nerfs in the very first days just has "WE HAVE NO CLUE" written all over it. They just panicked trying for enforce grouping and slow down levelling because they failed to encourage this in a positive way. It is so clearly a bad remedy for a totally broken game design.
Which doesnt mean you cant have fun for some time. But in the essence it is just the shell of a game.
"By the very nature a Superhero MMO should make the gamers feel SUPER, and not like too hard work or tiptoeing every step through the map, because I felt that was very much taking out the Super from Superhero."
Yes, because then no one would complain it was too easy as they raced to the highest levels!
(not).
When I read a super hero story, usually they are facing some challenge that is commensurate to their skill. Yep, they wade through henchmen but the villain is usually a challenge. If its not, it was a boring episode/issue.
You are starting out a young hero, working alongside seasoned veterans like Defender and Witchcraft. To me, the game makes me feel that the enemies are commensurate to me. I fought a SV today in the mines in the desert and she gave me a real run for my money. We were both 13th level and without a forecield I would have been toast (and quite literally was the first go-round).
You want to have an instant "I win" button and not have any challenges? Be careful what you wish for.