The era of subscription fees is coming to an end in MMOs. F2P and item malls are the way the industry is going.
I hate to say it, but the majority of MMO players now days are casual (thanks WoW), and F2P and item malls are much more casual player friendly.
Is that why FFXIV will subscribed based MMO as well as The old republic and the next blizzard MMO? FYI there is actually big backlash against F2P MMOs right now in Korea Aion is pretty much slaughtering them. Starting to see that in china as well.
F2P is a code word for long grinds with potions to increase xp gains only available at cash shop. That also means that there will be like five customization options with the rest of the possibilities needing to be paid for. Also means any cool items or "premium content" will not be seen by anyone but paying customers.
And No, the industry is not going F2P just because a few Asian MMO's and SOE are going that route.
The era of subscription fees is coming to an end in MMOs. F2P and item malls are the way the industry is going.
I hate to say it, but the majority of MMO players now days are casual (thanks WoW), and F2P and item malls are much more casual player friendly.
Is that why FFXIV will subscribed based MMO as well as The old republic and the next blizzard MMO? FYI there is actually big backlash against F2P MMOs right now in Korea Aion is pretty much slaughtering them. Starting to see that in china as well.
In a recent interview someone over at Bioware stated that they are considering a number of revenue models, and haven't ruled out any including shops.
I think that item shops are going to become standard fare for mmos in the next couple of years. I could see AoC and WAR for example, both going to a f2p item shop scheme.
Q: There is a lot of talk about the business model for MMOs - subscription, free-to-play... nothing's been announced for Old Republic yet, so is everything still on the table in that respect?
Darrell Rodriguez: Yeah, we're considering it all, absolutely. You start looking at how different communities, territories such as Asia, actually play games, and we start to consider it all - especially if we want it to be a worldwide phenomenon.
Shack: [laughs] There was some noise about microtransactions a few months ago. Is that something you’re still considering for inclusion in the game?
Ray Muzyka: Yeah, I mean it’d be intriguing. It’d have to be congruent with the game world. We haven’t talked about the business models of TOR yet, so we’re not confirming or denying anything on that front.
But you know, subscription models are something that the vast majority of fans in that space in North America and Europe prefer, and it’s certainly something we see as an important business model. But you know, microtransactions, other forms of business models are intriguing too. We’re looking at a variety of things, but we’re not ready to confirm or deny any specifics yet.
Shack: It seems like certain types of microtransactions might fit well with the sort of single-player approach to an MMO that you’re going for.
Ray Muzyka: We want something different from play sessions, where people can play through a story and feel like it’s their own journey and story arc. But yeah, I mean, there are certainly ways to accommodate that within a subscription model too. And microtransactions don’t always have to be game-changing elements. They can be things that add value, but are optional. So there’s a variety of ways to pursue it.
A rather interesting article on DCUO... Looks like they are planning to make the game free to play kinda following the guild wars model. I'm guessing they will no doubt also have a item shop. www.onelastcontinue.com/10953/gamescom-2009-dc-universe-online-impressions/ Anyone think that maybe CO might change to free to play model? They got an item shop in game now and cryptic is pretty good about doing updates. Might be a better model for them especially while the game is still really rough... Maybe lifetime members get all the expansions free??
Not sure what to think of this yet. If they can pull it off in a guild wars like style then it's ok. I am just worried about their ability to offer rapid updates and content to the game with this decision. Only time will tell.
I don't mind subs, I dont mind MT's though I kinda object, but won't completely dismiss, paying for both.
Ultimately it will be down to how good the game plays, how original it is and how immersive and involving an experience it provides.......if DCUO makes a decent attempt to make my playtime fun I will be encouraged to send money its way by whatever means they lay down.
The only thing I can be certain of at this stage is that, in all the areas that matter to me personally, CO would struggle to get me to want to log back in even if f2p.
Obviously SOE saw what Free Realms did in sales it seems to be working. I still won't be playing DCUO though! :P
Free realms cannot even fill up 1 server so I don't think it is "working" as soe has intended it to be. So I doubt this change is in response to how well free realms is doing.
My guess is that soe realizes they do not compete well in the subscription market and going along this model would be better suited for console users. Either free to play or similar to guild wars with revenue generated from box sales (of course it will still have a cash shop either way).
It lines up very well with what console users are comfortable with. Buy a game and play it. Spend a few bucks on additions to the game. Maybe buy the next mission pack or whatever.
Anything that this game does for the PC market is an after thought and soes new focus is going to be the console market (if they can make the games work there). They have not really done very well in the pc market post everquest and the competition is only getting stronger. Sony is desperately trying to hold onto the console market and with SOE being pulled into the same division I think this is their new directive.
A Major IP starting off F2P? It seems like a bad sign to me. GW is an exception. F2P does not imply quality to me.
They are going on the Free realms model. They have over 2 million subs for that game. Which is about 1,900,000 more subs than Champions.
They have 2 million users not Subs. Infact I'm betting the amount of people paying to play CO is actually larger than Free Realms.
The chances of CO going F2P or even remotely to a guild wars model is low. Its to early in the game to change the model and alot of people who've already paid would be pissed off. Not to mention if anyone has bothered to examine how the game is set up it is NOT set up to be cohesive with a true F2P cash shop game. Everything you need in game to progress is available in game. Changing that would be extremely bad for its health not to mention for the company's pockets.
F2P means you don't even buy the software. You must buy the software for CO and Guild Wars. Infact Guild Wars software never EVER comes down in price. You won't find it in the bargain bin anytime soon because its a Subscription less model that survives off software sales. Its also a crappy game in my personal opinion.
A Major IP starting off F2P? It seems like a bad sign to me. GW is an exception. F2P does not imply quality to me.
They are going on the Free realms model. They have over 2 million subs for that game. Which is about 1,900,000 more subs than Champions.
They have 2 million users not Subs. Infact I'm betting the amount of people paying to play CO is actually larger than Free Realms.
The chances of CO going F2P or even remotely to a guild wars model is low. Its to early in the game to change the model and alot of people who've already paid would be pissed off. Not to mention if anyone has bothered to examine how the game is set up it is NOT set up to be cohesive with a true F2P cash shop game. Everything you need in game to progress is available in game. Changing that would be extremely bad for its health not to mention for the company's pockets.
F2P means you don't even buy the software. You must buy the software for CO and Guild Wars. Infact Guild Wars software never EVER comes down in price. You won't find it in the bargain bin anytime soon because its a Subscription less model that survives off software sales. Its also a crappy game in my personal opinion.
Guild wars does come down in price.. you can currently get the first 3 campaigns for the same price I paid for a single campaign way back in the day. Its okay if you think its a crappy game... alot of people just dont understand guild wars.. the skills and building your skill bar is much more advanced then CO. Its also a pretty old game now....
A rather interesting article on DCUO... Looks like they are planning to make the game free to play kinda following the guild wars model. I'm guessing they will no doubt also have a item shop. www.onelastcontinue.com/10953/gamescom-2009-dc-universe-online-impressions/ Anyone think that maybe CO might change to free to play model? They got an item shop in game now and cryptic is pretty good about doing updates. Might be a better model for them especially while the game is still really rough... Maybe lifetime members get all the expansions free??
I think Champions Online will have no choice but to free to play within a year. I don't think they will have enough subscribers to maintain a subscription based sales model.
Another thing that could be done especially since its a modern day type of game is use in game advertising... subtle ones thought... IE their is a giant billboard sign with a picture of Thhe Flash running with a Monster Power drink in his hand. Or maybe McDonalds Restaurants placed in the game.
In game advertising IF done correctly would not be that bad of a thing. It would just need to be subtle and not big pop ups that blot out your screen.
Another thing that could be done especially since its a modern day type of game is use in game advertising... subtle ones thought... IE their is a giant billboard sign with a picture of Thhe Flash running with a Monster Power drink in his hand. Or maybe McDonalds Restaurants placed in the game. In game advertising IF done correctly would not be that bad of a thing. It would just need to be subtle and not big pop ups that blot out your screen.
Yes maybe CO will be saved when SOCRATES is brought to you by Google.
If it was actually the Guild Wars model, buy the box and get access to the whole game with a very limited item shop like what Guild Wars has, I would actually contemplate getting DCUO and suspending my 4 year SOE Boycott. That being said, I can't help but feel that if SOE were to introduce a Guild Wars model, their item shop would be incredibly intrusive and game effecting. It's just their nature.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
This is not really any surpise to anyone that has been following SOE, or the industry in general. If you look at my posts on these boards, you will see that I stated this almost a year ago... because Sony clearly stated that the three new games in development (FreeRealms, The Agency, DC Universe) were all going to be using alternative business models (aka F2P) to thier stockholders.
SOE was moved to the gaming division to invigorate it, and to more agressively bring changes. They are creating content for the PS3, and doing so in a manner that will lead to competing with XBox Live. This has been the plan for a while, and it is how Sony plans to monitize the PS3. The old console business model just didnt work with the PS3... but they really bet the company on this... so they have to adapt, and change so that they can see the long term returns... and this is how they are going to do it.
The (US) gaming market HAS changed... but most people dont know it yet. The future is a hybrid of various business models, which allow for better monitization of products.
Originally posted by Superman0X The (US) gaming market HAS changed... but most people dont know it yet. The future is a hybrid of various business models, which allow for better monitization of products.
For this to really take hold on the mmo market there needs to be something offered worth while for that change to take hold.
Time will tell I guess, but I still see subscription based games holding their ground.
WoW Epic Fail then. F2P dont work in the US this means the content is severly lacking. Good news for CO! No real competition now.
outdated generalization. more and more players realize that todays MMOs really don't offer that much more than a great single player or multiplayer shooter game. you are basically paying for data storage and server maintainance with your monthly subscription fees.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
F2P is a code word for long grinds with potions to increase xp gains only available at cash shop. That also means that there will be like five customization options with the rest of the possibilities needing to be paid for. Also means any cool items or "premium content" will not be seen by anyone but paying customers.
And No, the industry is not going F2P just because a few Asian MMO's and SOE are going that route.
A rather interesting article on DCUO... Looks like they are planning to make the game free to play kinda following the guild wars model. I'm guessing they will no doubt also have a item shop. www.onelastcontinue.com/10953/gamescom-2009-dc-universe-online-impressions/ Anyone think that maybe CO might change to free to play model? They got an item shop in game now and cryptic is pretty good about doing updates. Might be a better model for them especially while the game is still really rough... Maybe lifetime members get all the expansions free??
I think Champions Online will have no choice but to free to play within a year. I don't think they will have enough subscribers to maintain a subscription based sales model.
All the money they made from the lifetime / 6 month subscribers will keep it from going F2P for atleast 2 years if thats your only reason for it to go to F2P. 200 dollars up front is more than they'll get from many of the flip floppers that come and go and maybe spend 4 to 6 months which is the average retention rate for some users. Lord of the Rings hasn't gone F2P, Warhammer hasn't, hell Everquest 1 hasn't either and all of them have low sub numbers in comparison to the Gorilla.
Its really to early in the game to speculate anything considering its only 2 weeks old.
Originally posted by Superman0X The (US) gaming market HAS changed... but most people dont know it yet. The future is a hybrid of various business models, which allow for better monitization of products.
For this to really take hold on the mmo market there needs to be something offered worth while for that change to take hold.
Time will tell I guess, but I still see subscription based games holding their ground.
I think Subscription games will always have their place somewhere.. and not everyone will embrace a single payment type. Its shown that the guild wars model works with just purchasing the game. In fact, its been proven 10 times over as most online games on consoles use this model. You buy the game, you often play through the single player game, then you go online and play on their servers, purchase their download packs.. and so on. Now - no - many times they don't have immense persistent worlds, but you get the gist.
As much as I'd hate to say it even the MT models will probably take hold sometime or another..... I think what matters most about the payment models is how the games actually play. If something is good enough, people will pay for it. CO was never really good enough for having all 3 payment models... and I think a large amount of players know that.. If this game was no monthly sub and just the box and the MTs I bet you it would've done a lot better out of the gate.
Comments
F2P now this is sounding interesting. One thing i dont like bout champions $15 seems bit much considering there is no Villain side.
Heres for hoping DCUO comes out F2p like guild wars and has good combat where i can really dodge bullets myself
They are going on the Free realms model. They have over 2 million subs for that game. Which is about 1,900,000 more subs than Champions.
Eh, no?
Free Realms does not have over 2 mil subs. They have a few millions registered users, but that says nothing about how many players they actually have.
To compare number of subscribers in a P2P game with number of registered users in a F2P game is like comparing apples with seagulls.
Is that why FFXIV will subscribed based MMO as well as The old republic and the next blizzard MMO? FYI there is actually big backlash against F2P MMOs right now in Korea Aion is pretty much slaughtering them. Starting to see that in china as well.
F2P is a code word for long grinds with potions to increase xp gains only available at cash shop. That also means that there will be like five customization options with the rest of the possibilities needing to be paid for. Also means any cool items or "premium content" will not be seen by anyone but paying customers.
And No, the industry is not going F2P just because a few Asian MMO's and SOE are going that route.
Is that why FFXIV will subscribed based MMO as well as The old republic and the next blizzard MMO? FYI there is actually big backlash against F2P MMOs right now in Korea Aion is pretty much slaughtering them. Starting to see that in china as well.
In a recent interview someone over at Bioware stated that they are considering a number of revenue models, and haven't ruled out any including shops.
I think that item shops are going to become standard fare for mmos in the next couple of years. I could see AoC and WAR for example, both going to a f2p item shop scheme.
http://www.oldrepub.com/
Q: There is a lot of talk about the business model for MMOs - subscription, free-to-play... nothing's been announced for Old Republic yet, so is everything still on the table in that respect?
Darrell Rodriguez: Yeah, we're considering it all, absolutely. You start looking at how different communities, territories such as Asia, actually play games, and we start to consider it all - especially if we want it to be a worldwide phenomenon.
http://www.planetswtor.com/2009/03/31/microtransaction-based-model-may-or-may-not-happen/
Shack: [laughs] There was some noise about microtransactions a few months ago. Is that something you’re still considering for inclusion in the game?
Ray Muzyka: Yeah, I mean it’d be intriguing. It’d have to be congruent with the game world. We haven’t talked about the business models of TOR yet, so we’re not confirming or denying anything on that front.
But you know, subscription models are something that the vast majority of fans in that space in North America and Europe prefer, and it’s certainly something we see as an important business model. But you know, microtransactions, other forms of business models are intriguing too. We’re looking at a variety of things, but we’re not ready to confirm or deny any specifics yet.
Shack: It seems like certain types of microtransactions might fit well with the sort of single-player approach to an MMO that you’re going for.
Ray Muzyka: We want something different from play sessions, where people can play through a story and feel like it’s their own journey and story arc. But yeah, I mean, there are certainly ways to accommodate that within a subscription model too. And microtransactions don’t always have to be game-changing elements. They can be things that add value, but are optional. So there’s a variety of ways to pursue it.
It sure makes one uneasy, since it has Microtransactions and RMT written all over.
But I withhold my judgement until I know more about the game itself.
This is actually a stroke of genius it'd take a chimp not to see it
Not sure what to think of this yet. If they can pull it off in a guild wars like style then it's ok. I am just worried about their ability to offer rapid updates and content to the game with this decision. Only time will tell.
Obviously SOE saw what Free Realms did in sales it seems to be working. I still won't be playing DCUO though! :P
I don't mind subs, I dont mind MT's though I kinda object, but won't completely dismiss, paying for both.
Ultimately it will be down to how good the game plays, how original it is and how immersive and involving an experience it provides.......if DCUO makes a decent attempt to make my playtime fun I will be encouraged to send money its way by whatever means they lay down.
The only thing I can be certain of at this stage is that, in all the areas that matter to me personally, CO would struggle to get me to want to log back in even if f2p.
Free realms cannot even fill up 1 server so I don't think it is "working" as soe has intended it to be. So I doubt this change is in response to how well free realms is doing.
My guess is that soe realizes they do not compete well in the subscription market and going along this model would be better suited for console users. Either free to play or similar to guild wars with revenue generated from box sales (of course it will still have a cash shop either way).
It lines up very well with what console users are comfortable with. Buy a game and play it. Spend a few bucks on additions to the game. Maybe buy the next mission pack or whatever.
Anything that this game does for the PC market is an after thought and soes new focus is going to be the console market (if they can make the games work there). They have not really done very well in the pc market post everquest and the competition is only getting stronger. Sony is desperately trying to hold onto the console market and with SOE being pulled into the same division I think this is their new directive.
They are going on the Free realms model. They have over 2 million subs for that game. Which is about 1,900,000 more subs than Champions.
They have 2 million users not Subs. Infact I'm betting the amount of people paying to play CO is actually larger than Free Realms.
The chances of CO going F2P or even remotely to a guild wars model is low. Its to early in the game to change the model and alot of people who've already paid would be pissed off. Not to mention if anyone has bothered to examine how the game is set up it is NOT set up to be cohesive with a true F2P cash shop game. Everything you need in game to progress is available in game. Changing that would be extremely bad for its health not to mention for the company's pockets.
F2P means you don't even buy the software. You must buy the software for CO and Guild Wars. Infact Guild Wars software never EVER comes down in price. You won't find it in the bargain bin anytime soon because its a Subscription less model that survives off software sales. Its also a crappy game in my personal opinion.
F2P can and will work in the US if done well
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
They are going on the Free realms model. They have over 2 million subs for that game. Which is about 1,900,000 more subs than Champions.
They have 2 million users not Subs. Infact I'm betting the amount of people paying to play CO is actually larger than Free Realms.
The chances of CO going F2P or even remotely to a guild wars model is low. Its to early in the game to change the model and alot of people who've already paid would be pissed off. Not to mention if anyone has bothered to examine how the game is set up it is NOT set up to be cohesive with a true F2P cash shop game. Everything you need in game to progress is available in game. Changing that would be extremely bad for its health not to mention for the company's pockets.
F2P means you don't even buy the software. You must buy the software for CO and Guild Wars. Infact Guild Wars software never EVER comes down in price. You won't find it in the bargain bin anytime soon because its a Subscription less model that survives off software sales. Its also a crappy game in my personal opinion.
Guild wars does come down in price.. you can currently get the first 3 campaigns for the same price I paid for a single campaign way back in the day. Its okay if you think its a crappy game... alot of people just dont understand guild wars.. the skills and building your skill bar is much more advanced then CO. Its also a pretty old game now....
I think Champions Online will have no choice but to free to play within a year. I don't think they will have enough subscribers to maintain a subscription based sales model.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Another thing that could be done especially since its a modern day type of game is use in game advertising... subtle ones thought... IE their is a giant billboard sign with a picture of Thhe Flash running with a Monster Power drink in his hand. Or maybe McDonalds Restaurants placed in the game.
In game advertising IF done correctly would not be that bad of a thing. It would just need to be subtle and not big pop ups that blot out your screen.
Yes maybe CO will be saved when SOCRATES is brought to you by Google.
If it was actually the Guild Wars model, buy the box and get access to the whole game with a very limited item shop like what Guild Wars has, I would actually contemplate getting DCUO and suspending my 4 year SOE Boycott. That being said, I can't help but feel that if SOE were to introduce a Guild Wars model, their item shop would be incredibly intrusive and game effecting. It's just their nature.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
This is not really any surpise to anyone that has been following SOE, or the industry in general. If you look at my posts on these boards, you will see that I stated this almost a year ago... because Sony clearly stated that the three new games in development (FreeRealms, The Agency, DC Universe) were all going to be using alternative business models (aka F2P) to thier stockholders.
SOE was moved to the gaming division to invigorate it, and to more agressively bring changes. They are creating content for the PS3, and doing so in a manner that will lead to competing with XBox Live. This has been the plan for a while, and it is how Sony plans to monitize the PS3. The old console business model just didnt work with the PS3... but they really bet the company on this... so they have to adapt, and change so that they can see the long term returns... and this is how they are going to do it.
The (US) gaming market HAS changed... but most people dont know it yet. The future is a hybrid of various business models, which allow for better monitization of products.
For this to really take hold on the mmo market there needs to be something offered worth while for that change to take hold.
Time will tell I guess, but I still see subscription based games holding their ground.
outdated generalization. more and more players realize that todays MMOs really don't offer that much more than a great single player or multiplayer shooter game. you are basically paying for data storage and server maintainance with your monthly subscription fees.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
it doesn't say free to install
it doesn't say free to obtain
it says free to PLAY
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
see post #47.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I think Champions Online will have no choice but to free to play within a year. I don't think they will have enough subscribers to maintain a subscription based sales model.
All the money they made from the lifetime / 6 month subscribers will keep it from going F2P for atleast 2 years if thats your only reason for it to go to F2P. 200 dollars up front is more than they'll get from many of the flip floppers that come and go and maybe spend 4 to 6 months which is the average retention rate for some users. Lord of the Rings hasn't gone F2P, Warhammer hasn't, hell Everquest 1 hasn't either and all of them have low sub numbers in comparison to the Gorilla.
Its really to early in the game to speculate anything considering its only 2 weeks old.
For this to really take hold on the mmo market there needs to be something offered worth while for that change to take hold.
Time will tell I guess, but I still see subscription based games holding their ground.
I think Subscription games will always have their place somewhere.. and not everyone will embrace a single payment type. Its shown that the guild wars model works with just purchasing the game. In fact, its been proven 10 times over as most online games on consoles use this model. You buy the game, you often play through the single player game, then you go online and play on their servers, purchase their download packs.. and so on. Now - no - many times they don't have immense persistent worlds, but you get the gist.
As much as I'd hate to say it even the MT models will probably take hold sometime or another..... I think what matters most about the payment models is how the games actually play. If something is good enough, people will pay for it. CO was never really good enough for having all 3 payment models... and I think a large amount of players know that.. If this game was no monthly sub and just the box and the MTs I bet you it would've done a lot better out of the gate.