If the game is supposed to be based on the books and the lore why cant i start attacking the good guys towns with a monster? When you ask yourself that its when you realize PvP was just an afterthought with this game and how bad the current system really is. Either that or they figured that people who liked the LOTR lore wouldn't LIKE a game where they would get killed by other players.
Might make for an interesting twist if they allowed you to take (your) monster into a special skirmish instance. Basically where the monster player signs into a list (LFF - Looking for fight) and if the Free Guy hits the same they both go with the Free Guy doing it like it is presently; random, he picks raid nr and level etc...., and the monster guy becoming one of the LT's or Big Boss. Still totally random encounter with limited control on the monster side. Could be looked at as just an extension of Monster Play.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was the future of monster play.
Since there are battles betweent the forces, they could set something up like the Warhammer scenarios but scenarios that were story based.
players would sign up, enter, battle it out.
I'd be up for that.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
PVP in lotro is EXACTLY like the pvp in every other mmo. (except for a couple like eve or Darkfall that have a point) Saying lotro pvp is a joke means? No scoreboard? No gear for wining or losing enough times lol? No xp to force you to level up so you cant stay a twink forever?
The better question is, why is monster play a complete joke?
That is a better question. I wonder how people can find following raids around all day and swapping keep ownerships back and forth in the same zone every day enjoyable... Or even worse doing terrible quests "get 10 of these" "kill 10 of these" all day. But that probably explains why there's only a tiny amount of people playing monsters compared to good guys.
The issue there is simple, you can play a monster without having to lvl past lvl 10, it wouldn't be right to allow you to have to much to do in the monster play area simply because it would mean your allowed to get instant max lvl char to do whatever you want with and that isn't even remotely ok if they allowed full world pvp. Secondly they can't add in pvp now cause of the screaming fit most of the strictly monster player players would throw if all of a sudden their max lvl character was reconned into a lvl 10 pc in mordor. As it is monster play is an add on for fun and for bonuses on a player and realm basis not as a real pvp addition.
Didn't we already cover this very topic like... well over a year ago? Numerous times? With numerous people who all had the same exact arguments?
Ah well.. for old time's sake, I guess...
LoTRO is not an open PvP MMO. It was never designed as one. It was never intended as one. The lore does not support it, nor does the timeline, as others have pointed out. No, "because you really think it would be a good idea" is not a good enough reason to change it. Sorry to burst your bubble.
The people who play and enjoy LoTRO enjoy it despite - if not because - it's not an open FFA PvP MMO, at least in part. Believe it or not, not every MMO out there needs to have open PvP to be "good". And, if its track record is any indication, LoTRO is doing just fine without it since launch.
If you can enjoy PvMP (which is actually pretty fun if you get into it - and yes, I enjoy FFA open world PvP as well, so please don't even go there) then LoTRO should be fine. If you can't, and need to be an orc razing The Shire to enjoy yourself then LoTRO is not the MMO for you.
LoTRO is a PvE MMO first and foremost, and works just fine as such.
Here are some questions I have...
Why is it that every PvE MMO out there inevitably has people coming into its threads insisting that the game would be better if it had open PvP... even when popular consensus (aka the people enjoying it as is) shows otherwise?
Why is it that when they're given perfectly valid answers to the first question - especially in this case where the reasons are *well* known - such people can't accept that as the answer and instead have to keep arguing?
Why is it that in every such thread, those arguing for open PvP in a PvE MMO inevitably start insulting the game and/or those who play it - even if indirectly (e.g. "PvE takes no skill" and myriad other canned mantras)?
Darkfall, Lineage 2, Mortal Online and a number of other MMOs current and upcoming support, or will support open world PvP where you can kill anyone almost anywhere you like (if you're able) as you please. So why not check those games out? It would be like me going into forums for Darkfall and arguing that it would be better if PvP was consensual. It would make absolutely no sense in that game, and so I wouldn't bother. I would simply go play a MMO that has consensual PvP if that's what I was looking for.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
LOTRO has the best PvE I've ever seen but as a DAOC refugee I can understand why many players desire a more meaty PvP end game option.
They aren't all that far in some ways. There is fighting over keeps which is a good start. If they were to legitimize "monster play" so as to offer an equivalent monster experience as you find in the free people's and add a few purpose built zones they would be 95% of the way there.
Not saying it's easy, but certainly plausible and I think it would top off a great game.
even though i enjoy the pve in lord of the rings as its the best i ve come across in an mmo i would like to see the pvp side of the game expanded on . moria is full of all sorts of nasty things in the book so a pvp area there would make sence as would instanced battles somewhere along the lines of a skirmish system . its part of the game i would like to expanded on because i do like to pit my wits against other people .
PVP in lotro is EXACTLY like the pvp in every other mmo. (except for a couple like eve or Darkfall that have a point) Saying lotro pvp is a joke means? No scoreboard? No gear for wining or losing enough times lol? No xp to force you to level up so you cant stay a twink forever?
What do they mean exactly?
Have you heard of "Open-world PvP?"
I hear it existed once and was a great power. But fell to the tears of farmers disguised as bears that cares.
Notice the exceptions above also. Throw in doac and UO if those games are still relevant to you.
Maybe also notice I also said in this thread that open world pvp works perfectly in the lore, disagreeing with my fellow lotro fans.
I say open world pvp ftw. My bills arent paid threw lotro's success though. They could do it, slowly. Or threw a huge expansion losing some customers and gaining some others. I dont know which would be the bigger group.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
So just curious why LOTRO doesnt have any open-world PvP at all? It would be a good game with 1 PvP server. I understand that most people just love to pay 15$ a month to kill computers and get a false sense of accomplishement but some people like playing against other players. The system they have now where monsters fight good guys is pretty weak, basically just follow a raid around and fight the other raid. There is little-to-no small group or 1v1 opportunities. The "class" system on the monster side is completely different from the good guys making balance very hard to achieve. Its basically a lame attempt to incorporate the "lore" of the LOTR world into the game where good guys fight bad guys. So why not make a system where elves can attack other elves in the real world (outside moors) and etc. If LOTR had a real PvP system this game would attract not only all the people who love to kill mobs all day and pay real money for it but also people who are avoiding this game because there is no real PvP.
I played LOTRO for over year and it always felt too safe to me. I enjoy pvp and sadly LOTRO doesnt deliver. If anyone asks me of LOTRO I always ask them the same question....Do you enjoy pvp? If you do, avoid LOTRO.
The game would have alot of potential (if you can look past the horrible avatars) if they added more PVP but its not going to happen sadly. Turbine has stated many times that their focusing on PVE as you can tell from the lack of PvMP updates. I'm currently playing Aion and I can't imagine going back to the bland world of LOTRO. PvP is just to damn fun to pass up! :-)
as a L2 ganker and Shadowbane roller, LotRO PvE content is so much more fun then listening to some noob cry about the leggings or loot you just ganked. Mosnter play is just enough to satify mmy needs and if I really need to pwn noobs , I play counter Strike Source. THe whole notion that someone "needs" pvp to enjoy a game is false, the only people who need PVP are those who fail at PVE content. PVE content is so much more challenging then rolling people 20 levels lower then yourself.. Think the oinly noobs in this current era of mmorpg gaming are so called PVPers. People who have no clue what pvp is really about and hide behind the title of pvp cause they are to scared they may enjoy pve content.
"l2 ganker and shadowbane roller"
Ah, you mean a noskilled PvPer that has to pick on sheep to be able to win, instead of actually attacking other wolves. I see.
How does elf vs elf go against the lore? Because you never saw an elf fight another elf in the movie? I'm pretty sure the "lore" of LOTR doesn't equal middle earth being a heavenly land where every man fights for a noble cause and every elf is pure and true. Seriously? People do bad things and its going AGAINST the lore to force people to be a good guy. Just because you look like an elf doesn't mean you have to be a good guy.
LOTR online is not based around a movie. The movie triology is filmatisation of JRR Tolkiens book "Lord of the rings" witch is just one of many books where he writes about his fantasy world of Midgard. This is a world that he invented quite young as a person interested in languages and mythology and he wanted to give england a mythology culture equal to scandinavia or greece. So he wrote several books about midgard and its population and stories including Lord of the rings, Silmarillion, the hobbit, poem books etc. where he described the creation of the world, its creatures, languages, centuries of history, battles etc. So a pvp situation in LOTR online is impossible as it would totally break with the lore and story witch game creators of LOTR online tries to keep close to the mythology of Tolkien.
Not to mention some games actually is more PVE oriented. EQ2 was a "pure" PVE game too in the beginning and I remember back then that the devs and community representatives said that such a desicion was made because its difficult to balance a game for both PVE and PVP at the same time. + the fact that PVP sometimes brings out the worst in players.
To me. PVP seems to pull in a different type of people to a game. More FPS type of players that are less interested in RP, Lore and story. So I think its good that some game focus entirely on PVE.
So just curious why LOTRO doesnt have any open-world PvP at all? It would be a good game with 1 PvP server. I understand that most people just love to pay 15$ a month to kill computers and get a false sense of accomplishement but some people like playing against other players. The system they have now where monsters fight good guys is pretty weak, basically just follow a raid around and fight the other raid. There is little-to-no small group or 1v1 opportunities. The "class" system on the monster side is completely different from the good guys making balance very hard to achieve. Its basically a lame attempt to incorporate the "lore" of the LOTR world into the game where good guys fight bad guys. So why not make a system where elves can attack other elves in the real world (outside moors) and etc. If LOTR had a real PvP system this game would attract not only all the people who love to kill mobs all day and pay real money for it but also people who are avoiding this game because there is no real PvP.
You gave the answer yourself without realising it. The devs dont let you play the bad guys (outside of monsterplay). So open world PVP between the good guys wouldnt make any sense from a lore point of view. Especially not in LOTRO.
I also think that open world PVP is very badly executed in most MMO's. The devs usually balance around team vs team and a lot of players just dont get it and only think from a 1vs1 perspective. With as result numerous 'nerf class x' cries. Because of that poor balance, most players all flock towards the FOTM class, and then start crying again if the devs (understandably) nerf that overpowered class. Its also in these kind of games that I usually encounter the most retarded teamplay, where players are barely aware of their teammates.
as a L2 ganker and Shadowbane roller, LotRO PvE content is so much more fun then listening to some noob cry about the leggings or loot you just ganked. Mosnter play is just enough to satify mmy needs and if I really need to pwn noobs , I play counter Strike Source. THe whole notion that someone "needs" pvp to enjoy a game is false, the only people who need PVP are those who fail at PVE content. PVE content is so much more challenging then rolling people 20 levels lower then yourself.. Think the oinly noobs in this current era of mmorpg gaming are so called PVPers. People who have no clue what pvp is really about and hide behind the title of pvp cause they are to scared they may enjoy pve content.
That's why you have a seperate PvP-only server. That way all the PvE-lovers can choose not to ever be pked and the pvpers can all gank each other all day.
So just curious why LOTRO doesnt have any open-world PvP at all? It would be a good game with 1 PvP server. I understand that most people just love to pay 15$ a month to kill computers and get a false sense of accomplishement but some people like playing against other players. The system they have now where monsters fight good guys is pretty weak, basically just follow a raid around and fight the other raid. There is little-to-no small group or 1v1 opportunities. The "class" system on the monster side is completely different from the good guys making balance very hard to achieve. Its basically a lame attempt to incorporate the "lore" of the LOTR world into the game where good guys fight bad guys. So why not make a system where elves can attack other elves in the real world (outside moors) and etc. If LOTR had a real PvP system this game would attract not only all the people who love to kill mobs all day and pay real money for it but also people who are avoiding this game because there is no real PvP.
Elves attacking elves?
No thanks.
The community, nor the devs seem real interested in attracting those types of players. I'm sure there's a reason but for the life of me I cannot imagine what it could be. /sarcasm
Solareus, AC1 Darktide PvP made Shadowbane look like Disneyland! Pwn!~
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
as a L2 ganker and Shadowbane roller, LotRO PvE content is so much more fun then listening to some noob cry about the leggings or loot you just ganked. Mosnter play is just enough to satify mmy needs and if I really need to pwn noobs , I play counter Strike Source. THe whole notion that someone "needs" pvp to enjoy a game is false, the only people who need PVP are those who fail at PVE content. PVE content is so much more challenging then rolling people 20 levels lower then yourself.. Think the oinly noobs in this current era of mmorpg gaming are so called PVPers. People who have no clue what pvp is really about and hide behind the title of pvp cause they are to scared they may enjoy pve content.
That's why you have a seperate PvP-only server. That way all the PvE-lovers can choose not to ever be pked and the pvpers can all gank each other all day.
But again, as was posted several times, pvp between same races makes no sense as it's not part of the current world or story.
That's like saying you want to play a game based on the hardy boys where both brothers hate each other and never talk to each other.
This is not to say that there aren't racial tensions but that is not what the story is about.
Or maybe it's like playing Star Wars where the Empire attacks it's own bases and the rebellion attacks it's own people. But heck, I and others posted quite a lot of info as to why it doesn't work. So if you are interested, please read and comment on that.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
as a L2 ganker and Shadowbane roller, LotRO PvE content is so much more fun then listening to some noob cry about the leggings or loot you just ganked. Mosnter play is just enough to satify mmy needs and if I really need to pwn noobs , I play counter Strike Source. THe whole notion that someone "needs" pvp to enjoy a game is false, the only people who need PVP are those who fail at PVE content. PVE content is so much more challenging then rolling people 20 levels lower then yourself.. Think the oinly noobs in this current era of mmorpg gaming are so called PVPers. People who have no clue what pvp is really about and hide behind the title of pvp cause they are to scared they may enjoy pve content.
That's why you have a seperate PvP-only server. That way all the PvE-lovers can choose not to ever be pked and the pvpers can all gank each other all day.
But again, as was posted several times, pvp between same races makes no sense as it's not part of the current world or story.
That's like saying you want to play a game based on the hardy boys where both brothers hate each other and never talk to each other.
This is not to say that there aren't racial tensions but that is not what the story is about.
Or maybe it's like playing Star Wars where the Empire attacks it's own bases and the rebellion attacks it's own people. But heck, I and others posted quite a lot of info as to why it doesn't work. So if you are interested, please read and comment on that.
+1 for a Hardy Boys comparison in an MMO discussion.
You do realize there may be some people here that have no idea who the Hardy Boys are right, lol.
I still enjoyed the comparison none the less.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Comments
Maybe because the game was not created to have pvp in the first place ?
There. Fixed that for you.
The better question is, why is monster play a complete joke?
I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was the future of monster play.
Since there are battles betweent the forces, they could set something up like the Warhammer scenarios but scenarios that were story based.
players would sign up, enter, battle it out.
I'd be up for that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Have you heard of "Open-world PvP?"
That is a better question. I wonder how people can find following raids around all day and swapping keep ownerships back and forth in the same zone every day enjoyable... Or even worse doing terrible quests "get 10 of these" "kill 10 of these" all day. But that probably explains why there's only a tiny amount of people playing monsters compared to good guys.
The issue there is simple, you can play a monster without having to lvl past lvl 10, it wouldn't be right to allow you to have to much to do in the monster play area simply because it would mean your allowed to get instant max lvl char to do whatever you want with and that isn't even remotely ok if they allowed full world pvp. Secondly they can't add in pvp now cause of the screaming fit most of the strictly monster player players would throw if all of a sudden their max lvl character was reconned into a lvl 10 pc in mordor. As it is monster play is an add on for fun and for bonuses on a player and realm basis not as a real pvp addition.
Didn't we already cover this very topic like... well over a year ago? Numerous times? With numerous people who all had the same exact arguments?
Ah well.. for old time's sake, I guess...
LoTRO is not an open PvP MMO. It was never designed as one. It was never intended as one. The lore does not support it, nor does the timeline, as others have pointed out. No, "because you really think it would be a good idea" is not a good enough reason to change it. Sorry to burst your bubble.
The people who play and enjoy LoTRO enjoy it despite - if not because - it's not an open FFA PvP MMO, at least in part. Believe it or not, not every MMO out there needs to have open PvP to be "good". And, if its track record is any indication, LoTRO is doing just fine without it since launch.
If you can enjoy PvMP (which is actually pretty fun if you get into it - and yes, I enjoy FFA open world PvP as well, so please don't even go there) then LoTRO should be fine. If you can't, and need to be an orc razing The Shire to enjoy yourself then LoTRO is not the MMO for you.
LoTRO is a PvE MMO first and foremost, and works just fine as such.
Here are some questions I have...
Why is it that every PvE MMO out there inevitably has people coming into its threads insisting that the game would be better if it had open PvP... even when popular consensus (aka the people enjoying it as is) shows otherwise?
Why is it that when they're given perfectly valid answers to the first question - especially in this case where the reasons are *well* known - such people can't accept that as the answer and instead have to keep arguing?
Why is it that in every such thread, those arguing for open PvP in a PvE MMO inevitably start insulting the game and/or those who play it - even if indirectly (e.g. "PvE takes no skill" and myriad other canned mantras)?
Darkfall, Lineage 2, Mortal Online and a number of other MMOs current and upcoming support, or will support open world PvP where you can kill anyone almost anywhere you like (if you're able) as you please. So why not check those games out? It would be like me going into forums for Darkfall and arguing that it would be better if PvP was consensual. It would make absolutely no sense in that game, and so I wouldn't bother. I would simply go play a MMO that has consensual PvP if that's what I was looking for.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
its simple LoToR was made for Pver's
Same reason PVP gankfest PVE is a joke compared to LOTRO? Cant believe this thread has lived as long as it has.
Seriously though. The post is legit imo.
LOTRO has the best PvE I've ever seen but as a DAOC refugee I can understand why many players desire a more meaty PvP end game option.
They aren't all that far in some ways. There is fighting over keeps which is a good start. If they were to legitimize "monster play" so as to offer an equivalent monster experience as you find in the free people's and add a few purpose built zones they would be 95% of the way there.
Not saying it's easy, but certainly plausible and I think it would top off a great game.
even though i enjoy the pve in lord of the rings as its the best i ve come across in an mmo i would like to see the pvp side of the game expanded on . moria is full of all sorts of nasty things in the book so a pvp area there would make sence as would instanced battles somewhere along the lines of a skirmish system . its part of the game i would like to expanded on because i do like to pit my wits against other people .
Have you heard of "Open-world PvP?"
I hear it existed once and was a great power. But fell to the tears of farmers disguised as bears that cares.
Notice the exceptions above also. Throw in doac and UO if those games are still relevant to you.
Maybe also notice I also said in this thread that open world pvp works perfectly in the lore, disagreeing with my fellow lotro fans.
I say open world pvp ftw. My bills arent paid threw lotro's success though. They could do it, slowly. Or threw a huge expansion losing some customers and gaining some others. I dont know which would be the bigger group.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
You can't expect these young kids to actually read if its not a homework assignment.
It's pathetic really I was reading Catcher in the Rye the other day and some chick asked me if it was based on a movie...........
Obviously he knows nothing about Tolkien.
Ahhh kids these days.
Please tell me the chick was hot. If not that will be one sad long and lonely life for her.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
I played LOTRO for over year and it always felt too safe to me. I enjoy pvp and sadly LOTRO doesnt deliver. If anyone asks me of LOTRO I always ask them the same question....Do you enjoy pvp? If you do, avoid LOTRO.
The game would have alot of potential (if you can look past the horrible avatars) if they added more PVP but its not going to happen sadly. Turbine has stated many times that their focusing on PVE as you can tell from the lack of PvMP updates. I'm currently playing Aion and I can't imagine going back to the bland world of LOTRO. PvP is just to damn fun to pass up! :-)
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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"l2 ganker and shadowbane roller"
Ah, you mean a noskilled PvPer that has to pick on sheep to be able to win, instead of actually attacking other wolves. I see.
LOTR online is not based around a movie. The movie triology is filmatisation of JRR Tolkiens book "Lord of the rings" witch is just one of many books where he writes about his fantasy world of Midgard. This is a world that he invented quite young as a person interested in languages and mythology and he wanted to give england a mythology culture equal to scandinavia or greece. So he wrote several books about midgard and its population and stories including Lord of the rings, Silmarillion, the hobbit, poem books etc. where he described the creation of the world, its creatures, languages, centuries of history, battles etc. So a pvp situation in LOTR online is impossible as it would totally break with the lore and story witch game creators of LOTR online tries to keep close to the mythology of Tolkien.
Not to mention some games actually is more PVE oriented. EQ2 was a "pure" PVE game too in the beginning and I remember back then that the devs and community representatives said that such a desicion was made because its difficult to balance a game for both PVE and PVP at the same time. + the fact that PVP sometimes brings out the worst in players.
To me. PVP seems to pull in a different type of people to a game. More FPS type of players that are less interested in RP, Lore and story. So I think its good that some game focus entirely on PVE.
You gave the answer yourself without realising it. The devs dont let you play the bad guys (outside of monsterplay). So open world PVP between the good guys wouldnt make any sense from a lore point of view. Especially not in LOTRO.
I also think that open world PVP is very badly executed in most MMO's. The devs usually balance around team vs team and a lot of players just dont get it and only think from a 1vs1 perspective. With as result numerous 'nerf class x' cries. Because of that poor balance, most players all flock towards the FOTM class, and then start crying again if the devs (understandably) nerf that overpowered class. Its also in these kind of games that I usually encounter the most retarded teamplay, where players are barely aware of their teammates.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
Simple: Open world PvP is totally outside the realm of the devs initial vision and design plans.
The race/class combinations aren't even remotely balanced vs each other and the majority of abilities are entirely pve oriented.
That's why you have a seperate PvP-only server. That way all the PvE-lovers can choose not to ever be pked and the pvpers can all gank each other all day.
Elves attacking elves?
No thanks.
The community, nor the devs seem real interested in attracting those types of players. I'm sure there's a reason but for the life of me I cannot imagine what it could be. /sarcasm
Solareus, AC1 Darktide PvP made Shadowbane look like Disneyland! Pwn!~
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
That's why you have a seperate PvP-only server. That way all the PvE-lovers can choose not to ever be pked and the pvpers can all gank each other all day.
But again, as was posted several times, pvp between same races makes no sense as it's not part of the current world or story.
That's like saying you want to play a game based on the hardy boys where both brothers hate each other and never talk to each other.
This is not to say that there aren't racial tensions but that is not what the story is about.
Or maybe it's like playing Star Wars where the Empire attacks it's own bases and the rebellion attacks it's own people. But heck, I and others posted quite a lot of info as to why it doesn't work. So if you are interested, please read and comment on that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
That's why you have a seperate PvP-only server. That way all the PvE-lovers can choose not to ever be pked and the pvpers can all gank each other all day.
But again, as was posted several times, pvp between same races makes no sense as it's not part of the current world or story.
That's like saying you want to play a game based on the hardy boys where both brothers hate each other and never talk to each other.
This is not to say that there aren't racial tensions but that is not what the story is about.
Or maybe it's like playing Star Wars where the Empire attacks it's own bases and the rebellion attacks it's own people. But heck, I and others posted quite a lot of info as to why it doesn't work. So if you are interested, please read and comment on that.
+1 for a Hardy Boys comparison in an MMO discussion.
You do realize there may be some people here that have no idea who the Hardy Boys are right, lol.
I still enjoyed the comparison none the less.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!