Why not make a concept, disregard the graphics, and try to sell your ideas instead? If you have something to add to the mmo circuit a company might be interested in the ideas alone and if you can make a light, working copy to demonstrate that all the better. I believe it might be abit too hard to create something people will play in as little as 6 months.
All statements I make is from my point of view unless stated otherwise.
Why not make a concept, disregard the graphics, and try to sell your ideas instead?
Contrary to what most armchair developers think, ideas are a dime a dozen.
Ideas are, yes. But working concepts are´nt. Different ways to approach skill systems, abilities, balancing, crafting in a working enviroment is certainly sought after. Mmos these days tend to do the same things over and over and just calling it by different names.
I think he´d be more succesfull in selling ideas then making an Mmo in 6 months.
Edit: Sorry for being unclear I meant Working concept and not ideas as such.
All statements I make is from my point of view unless stated otherwise.
Why not make a concept, disregard the graphics, and try to sell your ideas instead?
Contrary to what most armchair developers think, ideas are a dime a dozen.
Yeah, but a working prototype isn't. Just having a very early alpha stage product with a design document puts you way out in front when it comes to funding. Most people don't move beyond the desiegn document so having some actual software to show off displays a greater level of commitment than 90% of all proposals that are looking for financial backing. If you make it clear that you did this on your own, the backend is at least 60% finished and you only need money to polish the presentation, you're more likely to get a green light.
Again, if you want to make games, then make games. Don't make design documents and talk about what you want to do. Actually sit down and do it. Ideas are a dime a dozen, so show people that you can turn your ideas into a finished product.
Why not make a concept, disregard the graphics, and try to sell your ideas instead?
Contrary to what most armchair developers think, ideas are a dime a dozen.
Yeah, but a working prototype isn't. Just having a very early alpha stage product with a design document puts you way out in front when it comes to funding. Most people don't move beyond the desiegn document so having some actual software to show off displays a greater level of commitment than 90% of all proposals that are looking for financial backing. If you make it clear that you did this on your own, the backend is at least 60% finished and you only need money to polish the presentation, you're more likely to get a green light.
Again, if you want to make games, then make games. Don't make design documents and talk about what you want to do. Actually sit down and do it. Ideas are a dime a dozen, so show people that you can turn your ideas into a finished product.
I agree. A working prototype can greatly improve the chances to get a person funding or land them a spot on a team. If nothing else, it puts them leaps and bounds ahead of the competition.
I was replying to his suggestion that someone would be willing to buy it from him.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I know that my opinion amounts to next to nothing in this thread, but it may be worthy of note that there are still players who enjoy games with graphics some players would call disgusting nowadays. MapleStory, Neverland Online, Well of Souls, and the like...
There are even early 3D games and sub-3D games that people still play. With Your Destiny, R.O.S.E. Online, Ragnarok Online, Tantra, if only to name a few.
Heck, I still play Hack/Nethack (no age jokes, please?) despite the abundance of graphically beautiful substitutes. Plenty of 2D games to go by that have less than "next-generation" graphics but still seem to lure a slew of players.
I mean, if your game's got a selling point, it'll sell something. Right?
Well bloke, the way i see it, you could have graphics similar to the game tibia, make sure it runs smooth, and throw in good pve, a pvp option and some unique and interesting things to do, and i'd pay ten bucks a month to play it.
Well, good graphics helps but it is gameplay that really wins the day.
All that said you should probably team up with an artist, you can make nice looking graphics with rather low polygon count if the art in itself is good. Some kind of cartoon or anime style is rather easy to get good even on lower settings.
Good gameplay + good art is enough to make a large MMO, you don't need AoC graphics for that but your video was kinda... how can I put it nice? Ugly?
It is still possible for an ugly game to be popular but it will have to be a lot better than anything else. If you just can add a bit of good art to it your chances of success increases a lot. Maybe you can find an artist with a lot of spare time in this forum.
Well from all the advice I'm debating between either continuing a 'safe' non-violence kids virtual chat OR a 'mmorpg' with the same kind of gfx as my kids game (very childesh/cartoony 2d) and making a zelda like perspective with all the basic mmorpg trimmings but with a lot less questing/grinding and a lot more focus on social aspects. Obviously this would still be targeted at kids due to art style.
don't bother if you can't make graphics that don't take advantage of new technology then i'm not going to play it
it shows your lack of skill and ruins immersion
I've seen people loose their lives to Tetris. The world around them goes away- even the passage of time is ignored. There's immersion- There's a bunch of squares.
Hi-quality gfx helps- but a crappy game w great gfx will break immersion more than a great game w/crappy gfx.
Yep. Personally, I would play a game with the traditionally crappy graphics of a Koei game as long as it maintained the sheer depth of a Koei game that isn't Dynasty Warriors.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
don't bother if you can't make graphics that don't take advantage of new technology then i'm not going to play it
it shows your lack of skill and ruins immersion
I've seen people loose their lives to Tetris. The world around them goes away- even the passage of time is ignored. There's immersion- There's a bunch of squares.
Hi-quality gfx helps- but a crappy game w great gfx will break immersion more than a great game w/crappy gfx.
Yep. Personally, I would play a game with the traditionally crappy graphics of a Koei game as long as it maintained the sheer depth of a Koei game that isn't Dynasty Warriors.
Well, BOH and Bob's Game both have retro graphics, commonly referred to today as "craptastic" and I find they have more of a fun factor and possibly more depth than their graphically adept cousins.
well graphics these days are unfortunatly a major part of gaming. Even MMO gaming. for me it does not matter but i've talked with many of my friends and to them it does matter. same with many other people.
hopefully most people will realize the opposite and not care. i know i won't.
If you have a passion, or even find one you didn't know you had until you tried it. Do it, you have only one life and loving your hobby or job is not a bad way to spend your time.
I'm also making a game and I have all kinds of wacky ideas. That's where I get excited - the thought of playing these things out, not staring at the zones and buildings. If you have an awesome game and it really was praised when you talked about what it would be about, someone would step up and help with your graphics. There are tons of designers and IT ppl that play games. If they wanted to play your game and they could improve it for themselves for maybe a free entrance for a year, they very well might. They would also be a good person to advertise for you because they know what makes your game fun.
I say do what makes you happy, not something that you only think might make you wealthy. The satisfaction from the first is something money can't buy, it's personal achievement and self worth.
When I talked about my game I wouldn't immediately say - well the graphics are crap I know that and downplay the other work involved. I'd talk about what is unique in my game. What the goals are, where the fun comes into play. The users can decide about the graphics from the first screenshot and if you have a solid game otherwise, those are always mutable. I'm not playing AION and have no interest in it because I've already been told, it's pretty graphics but the content is meh. Pretty doesn't do it for me and I'm not alone in wanting a game that sucks me into wanting to play it - not stare at it.
No offense here, but why not use your 24/7 free time to work at a job as much as you can, pay for college and then find your way into a larger part of the industry?
While its true that not everyone who works in the industry currently went to college and got a degree, it increases your chances 100 fold. Not only does it give you a wider chance to break into the industry, but it also gives you a ton of resources at hand that you would never have on your own. Take my school for instance, we have work stations, mo cap studio, all the software you can think of and so on and so forth. While you cant create everything on them for personal use (using udk for a game you wish to sell later on will get you sued in about 2 seconds) it at least opens up the door to learn how to do what it is you want to do
Not only this, but you will be put with like minded people in your classes, meaning you can find artist/animators/writers etc that share the same interest and are moving towards the same goal. You will also meet faculty who have contacts and friends with people who can set you up in the future, and all at a 4 year traditional college that only cost me a little over 5k a year.
I would try a game with those graphics, infact I play 2d and text based browser games so that's actually a step up. However I wouldn't play it if it didn't offer me something that other MMOs don't. So I'm just as picky but graphics aren't on my priority list.
well graphics these days are unfortunatly a major part of gaming. Even MMO gaming. for me it does not matter but i've talked with many of my friends and to them it does matter. same with many other people.
hopefully most people will realize the opposite and not care. i know i won't.
There is no reason not to care. There are enough good games with good graphics out there so there is no reason for settling for bad graphics.
We are playing VIDEO games here. If i want to play word games, I will go do tabletop RPGs.
I say go for it dude! Come up with an engaging story concept, solid gameplay, and interesting settings and you've got it made.
As for art, search the web. Theres a ton of amateur/semi-pro artists out there that could assist you in defining an artistic style and would do it for the sake of padding their portfolios.
Theres tons of options for sound effects, heck you can buy CD's of just about anything you could possibly want. Paying for the disc gives you license to use the sound effects however you want, I've known several radio DJ's who've done this for their on-air shows, perfectly legal. Worried about music? Don't, why not develop the client to allow the players to upload there own MP3's so they can have a customisable score?
Maybe it flops, maybe you get 100k players willing to throw down $5 per month. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Comments
All statements I make is from my point of view unless stated otherwise.
Contrary to what most armchair developers think, ideas are a dime a dozen.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Contrary to what most armchair developers think, ideas are a dime a dozen.
Ideas are, yes. But working concepts are´nt. Different ways to approach skill systems, abilities, balancing, crafting in a working enviroment is certainly sought after. Mmos these days tend to do the same things over and over and just calling it by different names.
I think he´d be more succesfull in selling ideas then making an Mmo in 6 months.
Edit: Sorry for being unclear I meant Working concept and not ideas as such.
All statements I make is from my point of view unless stated otherwise.
Contrary to what most armchair developers think, ideas are a dime a dozen.
Yeah, but a working prototype isn't. Just having a very early alpha stage product with a design document puts you way out in front when it comes to funding. Most people don't move beyond the desiegn document so having some actual software to show off displays a greater level of commitment than 90% of all proposals that are looking for financial backing. If you make it clear that you did this on your own, the backend is at least 60% finished and you only need money to polish the presentation, you're more likely to get a green light.
Again, if you want to make games, then make games. Don't make design documents and talk about what you want to do. Actually sit down and do it. Ideas are a dime a dozen, so show people that you can turn your ideas into a finished product.
Contrary to what most armchair developers think, ideas are a dime a dozen.
Yeah, but a working prototype isn't. Just having a very early alpha stage product with a design document puts you way out in front when it comes to funding. Most people don't move beyond the desiegn document so having some actual software to show off displays a greater level of commitment than 90% of all proposals that are looking for financial backing. If you make it clear that you did this on your own, the backend is at least 60% finished and you only need money to polish the presentation, you're more likely to get a green light.
Again, if you want to make games, then make games. Don't make design documents and talk about what you want to do. Actually sit down and do it. Ideas are a dime a dozen, so show people that you can turn your ideas into a finished product.
I agree. A working prototype can greatly improve the chances to get a person funding or land them a spot on a team. If nothing else, it puts them leaps and bounds ahead of the competition.
I was replying to his suggestion that someone would be willing to buy it from him.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I know that my opinion amounts to next to nothing in this thread, but it may be worthy of note that there are still players who enjoy games with graphics some players would call disgusting nowadays. MapleStory, Neverland Online, Well of Souls, and the like...
There are even early 3D games and sub-3D games that people still play. With Your Destiny, R.O.S.E. Online, Ragnarok Online, Tantra, if only to name a few.
Heck, I still play Hack/Nethack (no age jokes, please?) despite the abundance of graphically beautiful substitutes. Plenty of 2D games to go by that have less than "next-generation" graphics but still seem to lure a slew of players.
I mean, if your game's got a selling point, it'll sell something. Right?
Well bloke, the way i see it, you could have graphics similar to the game tibia, make sure it runs smooth, and throw in good pve, a pvp option and some unique and interesting things to do, and i'd pay ten bucks a month to play it.
My Blog On Playing Free 2D and 2.5D Games: http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/LeconAppris
Finally!
It is possible that you could make a "pokemon" style graphics in a 2D MMO? (the world not the battles lol)
For example: like this
Ive always wanted to see a 2D mmorpg with that style of graphics..
My 2 cents:
amazing looking 2D mmorpg with great gameplay will always beat a "okay" looking 3D mmorpg with great gameplay.
I'm dying for a 2d MMO by someone like Vanillaware. It's like living/breathing paintings, amazing stuff.
Example;
www.youtube.com/watch
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Well, good graphics helps but it is gameplay that really wins the day.
All that said you should probably team up with an artist, you can make nice looking graphics with rather low polygon count if the art in itself is good. Some kind of cartoon or anime style is rather easy to get good even on lower settings.
Good gameplay + good art is enough to make a large MMO, you don't need AoC graphics for that but your video was kinda... how can I put it nice? Ugly?
It is still possible for an ugly game to be popular but it will have to be a lot better than anything else. If you just can add a bit of good art to it your chances of success increases a lot. Maybe you can find an artist with a lot of spare time in this forum.
Good luck with it
Well from all the advice I'm debating between either continuing a 'safe' non-violence kids virtual chat OR a 'mmorpg' with the same kind of gfx as my kids game (very childesh/cartoony 2d) and making a zelda like perspective with all the basic mmorpg trimmings but with a lot less questing/grinding and a lot more focus on social aspects. Obviously this would still be targeted at kids due to art style.
don't bother if you can't make graphics that don't take advantage of new technology then i'm not going to play it
it shows your lack of skill and ruins immersion
.
go ahead with it, ill be looking forward to playing the game.
I've seen people loose their lives to Tetris. The world around them goes away- even the passage of time is ignored. There's immersion- There's a bunch of squares.
Hi-quality gfx helps- but a crappy game w great gfx will break immersion more than a great game w/crappy gfx.
Yep. Personally, I would play a game with the traditionally crappy graphics of a Koei game as long as it maintained the sheer depth of a Koei game that isn't Dynasty Warriors.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I've seen people loose their lives to Tetris. The world around them goes away- even the passage of time is ignored. There's immersion- There's a bunch of squares.
Hi-quality gfx helps- but a crappy game w great gfx will break immersion more than a great game w/crappy gfx.
Yep. Personally, I would play a game with the traditionally crappy graphics of a Koei game as long as it maintained the sheer depth of a Koei game that isn't Dynasty Warriors.
Well, BOH and Bob's Game both have retro graphics, commonly referred to today as "craptastic" and I find they have more of a fun factor and possibly more depth than their graphically adept cousins.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
well graphics these days are unfortunatly a major part of gaming. Even MMO gaming. for me it does not matter but i've talked with many of my friends and to them it does matter. same with many other people.
hopefully most people will realize the opposite and not care. i know i won't.
Playing
uhhh... dang.
Here are my thoughts.
If you have a passion, or even find one you didn't know you had until you tried it. Do it, you have only one life and loving your hobby or job is not a bad way to spend your time.
I'm also making a game and I have all kinds of wacky ideas. That's where I get excited - the thought of playing these things out, not staring at the zones and buildings. If you have an awesome game and it really was praised when you talked about what it would be about, someone would step up and help with your graphics. There are tons of designers and IT ppl that play games. If they wanted to play your game and they could improve it for themselves for maybe a free entrance for a year, they very well might. They would also be a good person to advertise for you because they know what makes your game fun.
I say do what makes you happy, not something that you only think might make you wealthy. The satisfaction from the first is something money can't buy, it's personal achievement and self worth.
When I talked about my game I wouldn't immediately say - well the graphics are crap I know that and downplay the other work involved. I'd talk about what is unique in my game. What the goals are, where the fun comes into play. The users can decide about the graphics from the first screenshot and if you have a solid game otherwise, those are always mutable. I'm not playing AION and have no interest in it because I've already been told, it's pretty graphics but the content is meh. Pretty doesn't do it for me and I'm not alone in wanting a game that sucks me into wanting to play it - not stare at it.
No offense here, but why not use your 24/7 free time to work at a job as much as you can, pay for college and then find your way into a larger part of the industry?
While its true that not everyone who works in the industry currently went to college and got a degree, it increases your chances 100 fold. Not only does it give you a wider chance to break into the industry, but it also gives you a ton of resources at hand that you would never have on your own. Take my school for instance, we have work stations, mo cap studio, all the software you can think of and so on and so forth. While you cant create everything on them for personal use (using udk for a game you wish to sell later on will get you sued in about 2 seconds) it at least opens up the door to learn how to do what it is you want to do
Not only this, but you will be put with like minded people in your classes, meaning you can find artist/animators/writers etc that share the same interest and are moving towards the same goal. You will also meet faculty who have contacts and friends with people who can set you up in the future, and all at a 4 year traditional college that only cost me a little over 5k a year.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
I have seen worse graphics in alpha stage. To me, the most important things any game can offer are;
1. Storyline - Develope your story and lore before you start building your game.
2. Combat - Design your combat system to reflect the proper use of the weapons available.
3. Making Money - Figure out how you want to be paid then design it into your game.
4. Special Effects - Keep them short, keep them in sync with what is being displayed.
5. Sound & Music - Remember after a few log-ins most players will turn off the sound effects and listen to thier own music.
6. Grinding - Some people like it, most complain about it. Try to design each quest in a way that forwards the story in the game.
7. Instancing - Many people complain about it, but it can be your friend if you use it right.
Game play is more important than graphics. As you continue developing your game, you may actually find artists to help you.
As long as it has good combat stpry line guild/clan system and pvp, ill play it.
I would try a game with those graphics, infact I play 2d and text based browser games so that's actually a step up. However I wouldn't play it if it didn't offer me something that other MMOs don't. So I'm just as picky but graphics aren't on my priority list.
There is no reason not to care. There are enough good games with good graphics out there so there is no reason for settling for bad graphics.
We are playing VIDEO games here. If i want to play word games, I will go do tabletop RPGs.
I say go for it dude! Come up with an engaging story concept, solid gameplay, and interesting settings and you've got it made.
As for art, search the web. Theres a ton of amateur/semi-pro artists out there that could assist you in defining an artistic style and would do it for the sake of padding their portfolios.
Theres tons of options for sound effects, heck you can buy CD's of just about anything you could possibly want. Paying for the disc gives you license to use the sound effects however you want, I've known several radio DJ's who've done this for their on-air shows, perfectly legal. Worried about music? Don't, why not develop the client to allow the players to upload there own MP3's so they can have a customisable score?
Maybe it flops, maybe you get 100k players willing to throw down $5 per month. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Warhammer fanatic since '85.
