Waiting like most people are at the moment to see how The Old Republic is going to turn out but everything except jade Empire (which I did not play) was awesome. Bioware = Gods of Gaming
Every game I've played from Bioware I have enjoyed a lot. I am assuming that their star wars mmo will provide a similar experience. The only other developer in which I've played multiple games of and have enjoyed as much has been Blizzard.
While I agree that Bioware and Bethesda has noone really to compete with in RPG genre in the U.S. there are powerful RPGs being released by European companies. Altho they are not as great as old Interplay classics or even older Wizardry / Might and Magic series, Witcher, Risen or Divinity have far more consistent RPG elements than all Bioware, Bethesda overhyped titles that sells with Martin Sheen voice acting and huge ads on all gaming websites.
Biased towards European RPGs? Is that what this is? Agenda much, or is this just a hard coded belief? The wizardry gaming series was terrible, absolutely horrid graphically and gameplay wise. Divinity was equally terrible. The issue is that BioWare creates their single player RPGs, and people buy them. People in the UK buy them. People in Austrailia buy them. These games even top charts in Japan.
People don't buy these games because they are terrible. They don't buy them for an unknown reason, and just feel the need to buy them. You say people are stuck in little boxes in BioWare games, but heres a newsflash... people are stuck in boxes in more than half the games that are out there. Lets talk about the game thats arguably been called the best video game of all time. The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time. Choices? None. Story? Plenty. Gameplay? Enjoyable.
What about the Metal Gear Series? Metroid? Final Fantasy?
Noone makes games like BioWare makes games, and that is why they are popular. Likewise for Bethesda, though companies have tried and failed miserably.
What does BioWare give people that other companies don't? They give us a story, and they give us tools to make our story. In summation, they give people something entertaining. That is why they are popular.
As a 30 yr gamer, Beyond Divinity was only game I ever took back in my life.
It was that buggy.
It took 2 trips to Best Buy to get money. I took game first time, and exchanged for another copy when they wouldnt refund money on open material. The clerk was busy, so when I grabbed new copy she just broke seal on bottom of box, Not breaking actual software seal. My wife returned it couple of days later for full refund.
No matter how many games I bought over the years that I didnt like, this was only one I was determined to get money back on.
Really says something.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I agree 110% with the OP on what's happened to Bioware. They used to make sophiisticated games with immense depth but now all that has changed. They want money first and foremost, and they know that complex games will only alienate those of limited intellect. The problem is that consoles have taken over gaming almost completely. Everyone that played PC games before this generation of consoles should know this. I've bought about 4 games in the last 6 months and EVERY single one of them was a console port. This includes every Bioware game that was released. Console games HAVE to be mundane because that is the mass market, lowest common denominator is the goal when mass marketing for the biggest paycheck. RPGs are not the gold mine they want either, that's why ME2 is a second-rate 3rd person shooter,
All I can say is the Bioware name means absolutely nothing to me any more. I doubt this will ever change either because they make so much money exploiting the kids on XBL (EA SELLS cheat codes on there...) they have no reason to go back to making proper PC games and actual RPGs.
I havent read all of this thread, but heres my answer anyway.
I dont have the same respect for Bioware that i once did. Sure their games are still good but they are really starting to become repetative, and the content in their games is just not making me jump up with joy anymore.
I have been EXTREMELEY dissapointed with the DLC content for their games, especially Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2. I was left feeling cheated and totally uninspired to try anymore of the downloadable stuff. It offered very little (in terms of time and rewards) and i wouldnt pay for anymore DLC from Bioware again.
They still make good RPGs, but i must admitt there are some developers out there that are definately starting to rival or even surpass Bioware in that regard.
I wouldnt call their games easy or dumbed down by any means, but i just dont get that "Oh wow!" feeling anymore from their products.
Hmm, I guess that what can be concluded after this thread once again is that tastes really do differ.
I've played the original BG series, NWN, KoToR (a bit), but also the newer games of them like DA:O and the Mass Effect series, and I can't say I like the former games less or more than the latter ones. On other forums where friends of mine and I visit regularly, there's a large group of players who've played all kinds of RPG's, adventure games and other kinds of the last 10 years and longer, and although some like Oblivion the most, others a Neverwinter Nights or the Witcher, I didn't get this impression of 'doom & gloom' that Bioware's later games are popcorn entertainment compared to their earlier ones, that a number of posts here seem to suggest. It's all subjective I guess.
I also liked the whole idea of DLC for games, I likes the Templar's Keep for DA:O, and I'm looking forward to play Awakenings.
Personally, I can enjoy a ME2 or DA:O as much as a I did a Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights, and Bioware games as much as a Final Fantasy XII, Heavy Rain or Morrowind.
Oh, and accusing other people of being 'immature' or 'elitist' or 'dumb' when they have an opinion or taste that doesn't stroke with your own, that's just silly: even if people may think so, your own opinion isn't the end all and be all of Wisdom and ultimate Truth, it's just what it is, your own subjective opinion.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
One of the popular answers when considering the direction SWTOR is heading ( being complete instanced , on the rails , amusement park MMO ) is:
Its made by BIOWARE ! You know the great RPG makers...
Well. Are they really that great today. Or is it just past glory ? ... Or even worse did they start bastardising their roots as great RPG developer ?
Let me get this straight. I am comming from view point of hardcore RPG player. In my eyes Morrowind > Oblivion. Fallout 1/2 >>> Fallout 3, Witcher is amazing game , and Troika rules. So if you can not agree to this points than we disagree in tastes from the start...
So lets take it from the top.
Baldurs Gate 1&2 (together with Black Isle ( Obsidian ) - Not much to say about this except that those are probably two best RPGs ever made.
NWN - Some people didnt like it. For me this is single most worthy investment i ever made in video game. I play it still after 8 years ( online - Single player official campaign was more like showcase for what the game can do )
KOTOR - Ok...I know everyone like it. Myself included. But this is where the things start to get shaky. Mark this game cause we will talk about it more. Also note its first console oriented game.
ps KOTOR2 was the good one and it was done by Obsidian not Bioware
Jade Empire - This is probably the first Biowares comerciall failure. Originally console exclusive. Never played it much.
Mass Effect - Bioware is again on the rise. This is the game with highest production values i have ever seen. But you can see KOTOR engine sipping from behind. Combination of shooter and RPG is a novel idea. But using modified KOTOR engine for it is not. And as i said before look KOTOR and think how much this game is similar in every way. Its like reskinned KOTOR in diferent universe and action shooting. But the basic principles are the same.
Ok so here we are. SWTOR is announced. And Bioware is now part of EA...let see what are they releasing in last year.
Dragons Age - Bioware decided to drop D&D rule system to make their own ruleset. Sounds great. But who will even dream Bioware are completelly uncompetent game ruleset makers ? The game is unbalanced to the core , some skills are useless , while other higher versions of the skills are weaker than lower ones. Non combat skills share spot with combat skills althouth there is another progression tree for non combat skills...Enemies power unballanced. Group of random bandits proves to be unpassable encounter while you kill the high dragon without even blinking.
Imagine above things in MMO ? It would even make CO look without problems.
Mass Effect 2 - Now I it got raging reviews. And in every review it had sentence of this sort : " I really hate RPGs , all those skills confuse me , and inventories too. I am glad Bioware got rid of those " Bioware took RPG in ME2 and killed it.
In order to make it appealing to the masses that are intimidated by complexity of RPGs
Let me bold and underline that one for you. Cause that is the sign of whats to come. That is Bioware today.
But did they manage to make ME2 a better shooter ? "Oh look a room full of boxes. That means enemy is comming"
Well if you think ME2 is any good as shooter than you obviously never played a shooter on PC. Or for that mater anywhere. I never played worse shooter than ME2 i can tell you that.
So in its core ME2 is simplified version of ME1. With RPG elements stripped and dumbed down. Its still has high production value. But what does that tells us?
As i see it Bioware are on the road of simplifying and mass appeal. This is not the Bioware of old. Its not about RPG anymore. And even if it was I doubt they have a skill to make it (hence the horrid DAO ruleset) and if its about fun gameplay they fail at it too (ME2)
So what are they good at now ?
Well ..they still have eye candy , high production values - and dialogues ( no wonder they talk about it in every single interview )
So to go back to the point of this post. When someone defends SWTOR by saying " Its made by BIOWARE ! You know the great RPG makers... "
Comments
Waiting like most people are at the moment to see how The Old Republic is going to turn out but everything except jade Empire (which I did not play) was awesome. Bioware = Gods of Gaming
Every game I've played from Bioware I have enjoyed a lot. I am assuming that their star wars mmo will provide a similar experience. The only other developer in which I've played multiple games of and have enjoyed as much has been Blizzard.
As a 30 yr gamer, Beyond Divinity was only game I ever took back in my life.
It was that buggy.
It took 2 trips to Best Buy to get money. I took game first time, and exchanged for another copy when they wouldnt refund money on open material. The clerk was busy, so when I grabbed new copy she just broke seal on bottom of box, Not breaking actual software seal. My wife returned it couple of days later for full refund.
No matter how many games I bought over the years that I didnt like, this was only one I was determined to get money back on.
Really says something.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I agree 110% with the OP on what's happened to Bioware. They used to make sophiisticated games with immense depth but now all that has changed. They want money first and foremost, and they know that complex games will only alienate those of limited intellect. The problem is that consoles have taken over gaming almost completely. Everyone that played PC games before this generation of consoles should know this. I've bought about 4 games in the last 6 months and EVERY single one of them was a console port. This includes every Bioware game that was released. Console games HAVE to be mundane because that is the mass market, lowest common denominator is the goal when mass marketing for the biggest paycheck. RPGs are not the gold mine they want either, that's why ME2 is a second-rate 3rd person shooter,
All I can say is the Bioware name means absolutely nothing to me any more. I doubt this will ever change either because they make so much money exploiting the kids on XBL (EA SELLS cheat codes on there...) they have no reason to go back to making proper PC games and actual RPGs.
I havent read all of this thread, but heres my answer anyway.
I dont have the same respect for Bioware that i once did. Sure their games are still good but they are really starting to become repetative, and the content in their games is just not making me jump up with joy anymore.
I have been EXTREMELEY dissapointed with the DLC content for their games, especially Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2. I was left feeling cheated and totally uninspired to try anymore of the downloadable stuff. It offered very little (in terms of time and rewards) and i wouldnt pay for anymore DLC from Bioware again.
They still make good RPGs, but i must admitt there are some developers out there that are definately starting to rival or even surpass Bioware in that regard.
I wouldnt call their games easy or dumbed down by any means, but i just dont get that "Oh wow!" feeling anymore from their products.
Hmm, I guess that what can be concluded after this thread once again is that tastes really do differ.
I've played the original BG series, NWN, KoToR (a bit), but also the newer games of them like DA:O and the Mass Effect series, and I can't say I like the former games less or more than the latter ones. On other forums where friends of mine and I visit regularly, there's a large group of players who've played all kinds of RPG's, adventure games and other kinds of the last 10 years and longer, and although some like Oblivion the most, others a Neverwinter Nights or the Witcher, I didn't get this impression of 'doom & gloom' that Bioware's later games are popcorn entertainment compared to their earlier ones, that a number of posts here seem to suggest. It's all subjective I guess.
I also liked the whole idea of DLC for games, I likes the Templar's Keep for DA:O, and I'm looking forward to play Awakenings.
Personally, I can enjoy a ME2 or DA:O as much as a I did a Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights, and Bioware games as much as a Final Fantasy XII, Heavy Rain or Morrowind.
Oh, and accusing other people of being 'immature' or 'elitist' or 'dumb' when they have an opinion or taste that doesn't stroke with your own, that's just silly: even if people may think so, your own opinion isn't the end all and be all of Wisdom and ultimate Truth, it's just what it is, your own subjective opinion.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yes they really are that good.