If so, I can't think of any MMORPG I would play offline. Most MMOs rely on the players to make the world feel alive. Without players, the game world just feels like an empty shell.
If I could play an MMO single player then I would compare it to other single player games, and it would fail miserably. To a certain extent I do that already but often times I create excuses for why MMOs do not add up to single player games, it is online in a shared space of course you can't have the same quality of content a single player game has. But if you had MMO gameplay without being online it is just a bad game at that point.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
I dont think there is an MMO made that I would want to play alone. I dont think Ive ever made it to the end of any single player game without getting bored. I guess im wierd, I just like being around others.
None. MMOs are not single player games... at some times would scream for the presence of other Players in the game world of any MMO.
Is there a MMO that I would like to level up completely solo then go normal multiplayer MMO at max level?
No. MMOs are as much about the Journey as they are about the Destination as far as I am concerned. I tend to be a hermit anyways, but even I need the companionship of fellow Players that enjoy the game as I do from time to time.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!" ............... "I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. " __Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__ ...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
I tend to solo almost all the time, but like the fact that other players scurry around gathering materials for me to buy, and make things that I can't so I can buy them. Very handy indeed, no matter what the MMO, so the more players around the merrier.
Yes of course. But is there any MMORPRG yo uwould play offline from level 1 to max?
A sort of irrelevant question. It wouldn't then be an MMO any more.
I find the solo game play to be very similar to counting grains of sand at the beach, or maybe watching clothes go around in a dryer. The quests dont' change the game world, and the combat is just whack whack whack.
So far, there isn't any game that's been released that I would say I'd play it offline ot max level. I'd be bored to tears, and this goes for my favorite MMORPGs like DaoC, EQ, or CoH.
However, I can say that although it's not released yet, and I haven't played it, TOR looks like I might actually want to play that game, if it was offline. I liked KOTOR, a single player game, and TOR looks like a great big KOTOR.
If that turns out the be the case, that it would be fun to play, EVEN OFFLINE, I believe it will be a smash hit.
Once again, you don't get solo players. That's ok. It's ok to be different.
But if you think solo players play games solo because they don't want a robust living world then think again.
Additionally, just because you might think that mmo gameplay in a group makes that game play better doesn't mean that the same game play is worse without a group.
It's still killing mobs. To me there is no enjoyment difference if I'm working with a group or drawing from my level head and experience when I am forced to take on more than one mob solo.
The problem with posts (the many posts) like yours is that you just can't see it. You can't put yourself into the shoes of a solo player and can only evaluate the game from the eyes of someone who needs a group.
And given that we've had so many of these threads over the years it seems that no answer is good enough because you can only see through your glasses.
What does one need to do in order to convince you and yours that being a a living mmo world and taking the interactions with players as they come has its own benefit? I'm pretty sure that if I walked into your life I might roll my eyes at the things you do and how you socialize with people out of game. You might do the same if you walked into my life. Nothing wrong with that as people actually see and experience things differently.
So no, playing any mmo for me offline would not be fun. But playing any mmo solo amongst other players is fun.
do you get it now?
That's also my position entirely.
I can't think of an MMO that would feel the same if I was playing it offline, whilst I also can't think of an MMO I want to group or guild in while playing it online - after years of all that it simply isn't what I look for in my hobby any more. I find offline games terribly empty and can't stick with them, but online MMOs I enjoy for a whole variety of reasons other than for providing a social life through grouping for combat. Some need that, and I respect that, but I still marvel at the fact that some of them can't "get it" that not all of us do need it.
Sovrath and Shadewalker have it right. I group up in an MMO about as often as Ihmotepp solos, but there still isn't a single MMO that comes close to making me want to play it offline. MMOs and single-player games have so many differences, not the least of which is that a single player game ends! It has a finite length to it.
But the OP is correct about TOR, and it's not surprising really. The devs have said many times that TOR is like KOTOR 3-8, and I thought the first two were brilliant.
I find the solo game play to be very similar to counting grains of sand at the beach, or maybe watching clothes go around in a dryer. The quests dont' change the game world, and the combat is just whack whack whack.
So far, there isn't any game that's been released that I would say I'd play it offline ot max level. I'd be bored to tears, and this goes for my favorite MMORPGs like DaoC, EQ, or CoH.
However, I can say that although it's not released yet, and I haven't played it, TOR looks like I might actually want to play that game, if it was offline. I liked KOTOR, a single player game, and TOR looks like a great big KOTOR.
If that turns out the be the case, that it would be fun to play, EVEN OFFLINE, I believe it will be a smash hit.
Once again, you don't get solo players. That's ok. It's ok to be different.
But if you think solo players play games solo because they don't want a robust living world then think again.
Additionally, just because you might think that mmo gameplay in a group makes that game play better doesn't mean that the same game play is worse without a group.
It's still killing mobs. To me there is no enjoyment difference if I'm working with a group or drawing from my level head and experience when I am forced to take on more than one mob solo.
The problem with posts (the many posts) like yours is that you just can't see it. You can't put yourself into the shoes of a solo player and can only evaluate the game from the eyes of someone who needs a group.
And given that we've had so many of these threads over the years it seems that no answer is good enough because you can only see through your glasses.
What does one need to do in order to convince you and yours that being a a living mmo world and taking the interactions with players as they come has its own benefit? I'm pretty sure that if I walked into your life I might roll my eyes at the things you do and how you socialize with people out of game. You might do the same if you walked into my life. Nothing wrong with that as people actually see and experience things differently.
So no, playing any mmo for me offline would not be fun. But playing any mmo solo amongst other players is fun.
do you get it now?
That's also my position entirely.
I can't think of an MMO that would feel the same if I was playing it offline, whilst I also can't think of an MMO I want to group or guild in while playing it online - after years of all that it simply isn't what I look for in my hobby any more. I find offline games terribly empty and can't stick with them, but online MMOs I enjoy for a whole variety of reasons other than for providing a social life through grouping for combat. Some need that, and I respect that, but I still marvel at the fact that some of them can't "get it" that not all of us do need it.
Actually, my point is if you design a game that players would like to play OFFLINE, and give it the advantages you list of being ONLINE, it's going to be a hit.
I don't disagree that it can ad to a game just having other poeple in the world, even if you don't group with them.
I dont' view "socializing" as being connected to "grouping".
Socializing is about chatting, and almost all MMORPGs have a global chat. I can chat with you whether you are in my group or not.
the reason I like grouping is the game mechanics, moreso that chat, which as I said I can do with or without a group. Group coordination ads a dynamic to whack a mole games that makes it ineresting for me, where as it is completely lackluster solo.
I know what the mob will do. It's just a dumb a.i. But I never know what other players will do, so that means combat is different every time when you're in a group, while it's the same every time when you play solo.
Also, MMORPGs in general have easier Mob A.I. One reason is MMORPGs don't play like single player games, where you can save game, and revert to an earlier saved game, as you try 3 or 4 different strategies to get past a hard part of the game. There are no save games in an MMORPG.
I would play LOTRO offline, I solo'd a good portion of the content. Story line is strong, and there is plenty of other stuff to do, hell, I would just log on to fish or mess around with the housing if I didnt feel like killingleveling. As long as your not a PvP buff, I am sure there is something you can find in this game.
Actually, my point is if you design a game that players would like to play OFFLINE, and give it the advantages you list of being ONLINE, it's going to be a hit.
ok, well THAT I can get behind.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I'd play a game with MMO combat and a vast open world in single player. It is a viable, enjoyable RPG system. I'd happily play a single player vanilla WoW for instance, due to the relevance most quests had to the Warcraft universe and your character, if only to see how the areas from the trilogy are recreated.
I'd stay away from the expansions however, because they are the culmination of those stupid, irrelevant, grindy, pop-culture referencing MMO quests, slapped on as an excuse to give XP and items to the player. There is a lack of linearity and consequence that is only there because of an irrational fear of doing something different in the genre.
AoC's Tortage was greatly accepted because you really felt some progression of your character. He/she went from an amnesiac slave, through a revolutionary in tirant-occupied Tortage, to a free man/woman. And after that he/she becomes the marathon running monster slayer robot we play in every MMO and that is when i canceled my subscription.
I think a viable MMO formula would be to have each server go through a set timeline, a campaign of sorts, and then restarting the story. Like what Brink is doing, a large scale campaign you go through with all the other people and their unique avatars.
The formula of Realm of the Mad God is also a very interesting one. There's a limited number of minions, you gather up with the other people in your server, slay, slay, slay increasingly difficult minions, get increasingly better gear, maybe die (permeadeath) 'till the god appears, the bunch who've made it to him at the risk of losing high level chars and gear maybe kill him and get the best loot in the game. After that, the same thing all over again.
Just anything but that same old homogenic crap we've been fed the last 10 years.
"The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands, To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming! On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
I find the solo game play to be very similar to counting grains of sand at the beach, or maybe watching clothes go around in a dryer. The quests dont' change the game world, and the combat is just whack whack whack.
So far, there isn't any game that's been released that I would say I'd play it offline ot max level. I'd be bored to tears, and this goes for my favorite MMORPGs like DaoC, EQ, or CoH.
However, I can say that although it's not released yet, and I haven't played it, TOR looks like I might actually want to play that game, if it was offline. I liked KOTOR, a single player game, and TOR looks like a great big KOTOR.
If that turns out the be the case, that it would be fun to play, EVEN OFFLINE, I believe it will be a smash hit.
You should ask the WoW forum this question, and why they would.
There's nothing to like about a game that destroyed MMORPGs.
They killed Worlds, killed PvP, killed challenging content, killed exploring, killed any thought process that older games used to require. I'm supposed to say good things about that? Yeah right.
Where are the good points again?
I complained about their solo leveling system, and here you come telling me it has good features somehow related to that? What is good about a single player "MMORPG" that doesn't require interaction with other players.
Also, I find it funny that you aren't even playing it now. Why is that? Because it sucks? If WoW was really an MMORPG you wouldn't cancel your account. Characters there don't represent an investment, and the game consists of grinding PvE and PvP for gear. A boring game..
The ability to solo level has one awesome feature: zero LFG downtime.
It has another great feature; players learn all their class skills, not just the few necessary to fulfill a restrictive "group role". They also learn to be aware of the fight rather than relying on another player to heal them, tank for them, kill for them.
WoW killed nothing but the hardcore "I am better than you because I play more" mentality.
Ain't gonna mourn that.
Another leap in logic there. My favourite song is Alice Cooper's "Poison" .. but I don't listen to it every minute of every day. Favourite food is noodles, but I don't eat them for every meal. I play games in the same way; if I fancy a change then I change.
Doesn't mean that I won't be eating noodles and listening to Alice Cooper next week.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
There's nothing to like about a game that destroyed MMORPGs.
They killed Worlds, killed PvP, killed challenging content, killed exploring, killed any thought process that older games used to require. I'm supposed to say good things about that? Yeah right.
Where are the good points again?
I complained about their solo leveling system, and here you come telling me it has good features somehow related to that? What is good about a single player "MMORPG" that doesn't require interaction with other players.
The ability to solo level has one awesome feature: zero LFG downtime.
It has another great feature; players learn all their class skills, not just the few necessary to fulfill a restrictive "group role". They also learn to be aware of the fight rather than relying on another player to heal them, tank for them, kill for them.
WoW killed nothing but the hardcore "I am better than you because I play more" mentality.
Ain't gonna mourn that.
WoW players probably have more /played than EQ ones, with all the PvE and PvP timesink farms they have in the game, and daily quests. Maybe check your own /played time next time you log into WoW before you pretend you somehow invested LESS time than you would in an older MMORPG.
I guess you didn't play WoW when they had the whole Grand Marshal thing. Those titles were just given out to players who had the highest Honor Points, so people would grind Battlegrounds all day. Grand Marshal required about 20 hours/day of playing for several months to obtain. Yeah, WoW really killed that.
And Now they just have so many PvE instances you stay logged in doing trivial PVE/ PVP content and dailys all day.
WoW is funny because you can invest MORE time and your character still will be worthless.
WoW exp system consists of mashing buttons on mobs until your mana runs out. In EQ you actually had to pay attention because the mobs could kill you.
Solo exp should be bad, group exp should be better. That way the content can be actually kept at a challenging level. Why group in a game where you can solo at the same/better exp than you could in a group? Can't I Just play a single player game and get the same experience?
Without the multiplayer component MMOs are pretty much sub-par games, so the answer is no.
I disagree, if LOTRO, WOW, Vanguard or EQ2 were all just offline solo games they would be on par with Oblivion, at least. I think much better because of how much more depth they have, these games have so much more content than any offline game, and the character building is much more in depth as well. They could also make the graphics much better as well since it would be an offline game.
WoW players probably have more /played than EQ ones, with all the PvE and PvP timesink farms they have in the game, and daily quests. Maybe check your own /played time next time you log into WoW before you pretend you somehow invested LESS time than you would in an older MMORPG.
WoW is funny because you can invest MORE time and your character still will be worthless.
WoW exp system consists of mashing buttons on mobs until your mana runs out. In EQ you actually had to pay attention because the mobs could kill you.
Solo exp should be bad, group exp should be better. That way the content can be actually kept at a challenging level. Why group in a game where you can solo at the same/better exp than you could in a group? Can't I Just play a single player game and get the same experience?
My /played is high, yup .. know why? .. I enjoy the game. On my terms.
Yup, WoW XP system is sooo different than that of AoC. Or WAR. Hey, remember UO skill system where you could just macro your way to 100 skill? .. you could do the same in SWG .. and what was EQ's XP system again? .. spending ages /lfg then grinding mobs for hours on end spamming one or two buttons.
Group content could be kept at a challenging level by .. making the group content challenging. Why group in a game supports both playstyles? .. don't you want to group? .. if it's your preference to group, and the game supports grouping, and grouping is as viable as soloing then you should (and can) group.
Solo-friendly MMOs are nothing like single player games. That shouldn't even need explaining.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
FFXI. Easily. Although, they would have to do it like they do all the other single player FFs, and give me a full party of characters to work with, but do that and the game content itself isn't much different from the single player installments. It is THAT well made.
I guess you didn't play WoW when they had the whole Grand Marshal thing. Those titles were just given out to players who had the highest Honor Points, so people would grind Battlegrounds all day. Grand Marshal required about 20 hours/day of playing for several months to obtain. Yeah, WoW really killed that.
I was around back then; what's your point?
It was a rubbish system; the developers recognised that it was a rubbish system and replaced it with a system that wasn't rubbish. Score one for common sense?
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
The formula of Realm of the Dark God is also a very interesting one. There's a limited number of minions, you gather up with the other people in your server, slay, slay, slay increasingly difficult minions, get increasingly better gear, maybe die (permeadeath) 'till the god appears, the bunch who've made it to him at the risk of losing high level chars and gear maybe kill him and get the best loot in the game. After that, the same thing all over again.
Just a corrective here, I think you meant Realm of the Mad God rather than the "Dark" ... And I'm not trying to be a tool here, but after reading the post I was intrigued to check it out and it looks like it is worth a go. (in case any others ignorant of the game wanted to check it out.)
now back to your regularly scheduled thread...
How dare you present him with logic! Don't you understand? He fights epic fights, in epic games, with epic toons....eats epic food and takes epic dumps! He has more e..pic..icity...ness in his little finger than you have in your whole unepic body! - ChicagoCub
I guess you didn't play WoW when they had the whole Grand Marshal thing. Those titles were just given out to players who had the highest Honor Points, so people would grind Battlegrounds all day. Grand Marshal required about 20 hours/day of playing for several months to obtain. Yeah, WoW really killed that.
I was around back then; what's your point?
It was a rubbish system; the developers recognised that it was a rubbish system and replaced it with a system that wasn't rubbish. Score one for common sense?
It was a rubbish system, but it sure wasn't replaced with 'a system that wasn't rubbish'. Arenas are just as bad in their own right, with skill being a backseat factor to group comp and gear. While the idea of 'go go farm the most honor' absolutely lead to account sharing and endless playing of toons, where skill had little to do with the equation of success, at least in the r14 system you stood a shot if you had good 'macro' versus 'micro'. Controlling the flow of an AB for example.
The system needed but one small tweak, not an entire absolution. Said tweak needed to be, on top of weekly honor minimums, an honor/time invested ratio. That's all that was needed to make something that was entirely broken to being entirely in-line.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
Comments
Damn you, I came in here just to say that!
If I could play an MMO single player then I would compare it to other single player games, and it would fail miserably. To a certain extent I do that already but often times I create excuses for why MMOs do not add up to single player games, it is online in a shared space of course you can't have the same quality of content a single player game has. But if you had MMO gameplay without being online it is just a bad game at that point.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
I dont think there is an MMO made that I would want to play alone. I dont think Ive ever made it to the end of any single player game without getting bored. I guess im wierd, I just like being around others.
None. MMOs are not single player games... at some times would scream for the presence of other Players in the game world of any MMO.
Is there a MMO that I would like to level up completely solo then go normal multiplayer MMO at max level?
No. MMOs are as much about the Journey as they are about the Destination as far as I am concerned. I tend to be a hermit anyways, but even I need the companionship of fellow Players that enjoy the game as I do from time to time.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
Lord of the Rings Online.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Yes of course. But is there any MMORPRG yo uwould play offline from level 1 to max?
A sort of irrelevant question. It wouldn't then be an MMO any more.That's also my position entirely.
I can't think of an MMO that would feel the same if I was playing it offline, whilst I also can't think of an MMO I want to group or guild in while playing it online - after years of all that it simply isn't what I look for in my hobby any more. I find offline games terribly empty and can't stick with them, but online MMOs I enjoy for a whole variety of reasons other than for providing a social life through grouping for combat. Some need that, and I respect that, but I still marvel at the fact that some of them can't "get it" that not all of us do need it.
Sovrath and Shadewalker have it right. I group up in an MMO about as often as Ihmotepp solos, but there still isn't a single MMO that comes close to making me want to play it offline. MMOs and single-player games have so many differences, not the least of which is that a single player game ends! It has a finite length to it.
But the OP is correct about TOR, and it's not surprising really. The devs have said many times that TOR is like KOTOR 3-8, and I thought the first two were brilliant.
AoC with a little adjustment would make a great offline rpg.
Actually, my point is if you design a game that players would like to play OFFLINE, and give it the advantages you list of being ONLINE, it's going to be a hit.
I don't disagree that it can ad to a game just having other poeple in the world, even if you don't group with them.
I dont' view "socializing" as being connected to "grouping".
Socializing is about chatting, and almost all MMORPGs have a global chat. I can chat with you whether you are in my group or not.
the reason I like grouping is the game mechanics, moreso that chat, which as I said I can do with or without a group. Group coordination ads a dynamic to whack a mole games that makes it ineresting for me, where as it is completely lackluster solo.
I know what the mob will do. It's just a dumb a.i. But I never know what other players will do, so that means combat is different every time when you're in a group, while it's the same every time when you play solo.
Also, MMORPGs in general have easier Mob A.I. One reason is MMORPGs don't play like single player games, where you can save game, and revert to an earlier saved game, as you try 3 or 4 different strategies to get past a hard part of the game. There are no save games in an MMORPG.
I would play LOTRO offline, I solo'd a good portion of the content. Story line is strong, and there is plenty of other stuff to do, hell, I would just log on to fish or mess around with the housing if I didnt feel like killingleveling. As long as your not a PvP buff, I am sure there is something you can find in this game.
ok, well THAT I can get behind.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Without the multiplayer component MMOs are pretty much sub-par games, so the answer is no.
O_o o_O
I'd play a game with MMO combat and a vast open world in single player. It is a viable, enjoyable RPG system. I'd happily play a single player vanilla WoW for instance, due to the relevance most quests had to the Warcraft universe and your character, if only to see how the areas from the trilogy are recreated.
I'd stay away from the expansions however, because they are the culmination of those stupid, irrelevant, grindy, pop-culture referencing MMO quests, slapped on as an excuse to give XP and items to the player. There is a lack of linearity and consequence that is only there because of an irrational fear of doing something different in the genre.
AoC's Tortage was greatly accepted because you really felt some progression of your character. He/she went from an amnesiac slave, through a revolutionary in tirant-occupied Tortage, to a free man/woman. And after that he/she becomes the marathon running monster slayer robot we play in every MMO and that is when i canceled my subscription.
I think a viable MMO formula would be to have each server go through a set timeline, a campaign of sorts, and then restarting the story. Like what Brink is doing, a large scale campaign you go through with all the other people and their unique avatars.
The formula of Realm of the Mad God is also a very interesting one. There's a limited number of minions, you gather up with the other people in your server, slay, slay, slay increasingly difficult minions, get increasingly better gear, maybe die (permeadeath) 'till the god appears, the bunch who've made it to him at the risk of losing high level chars and gear maybe kill him and get the best loot in the game. After that, the same thing all over again.
Just anything but that same old homogenic crap we've been fed the last 10 years.
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
You should ask the WoW forum this question, and why they would.
The ability to solo level has one awesome feature: zero LFG downtime.
It has another great feature; players learn all their class skills, not just the few necessary to fulfill a restrictive "group role". They also learn to be aware of the fight rather than relying on another player to heal them, tank for them, kill for them.
WoW killed nothing but the hardcore "I am better than you because I play more" mentality.
Ain't gonna mourn that.
Another leap in logic there. My favourite song is Alice Cooper's "Poison" .. but I don't listen to it every minute of every day. Favourite food is noodles, but I don't eat them for every meal. I play games in the same way; if I fancy a change then I change.
Doesn't mean that I won't be eating noodles and listening to Alice Cooper next week.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
WoW players probably have more /played than EQ ones, with all the PvE and PvP timesink farms they have in the game, and daily quests. Maybe check your own /played time next time you log into WoW before you pretend you somehow invested LESS time than you would in an older MMORPG.
I guess you didn't play WoW when they had the whole Grand Marshal thing. Those titles were just given out to players who had the highest Honor Points, so people would grind Battlegrounds all day. Grand Marshal required about 20 hours/day of playing for several months to obtain. Yeah, WoW really killed that.
And Now they just have so many PvE instances you stay logged in doing trivial PVE/ PVP content and dailys all day.
WoW is funny because you can invest MORE time and your character still will be worthless.
WoW exp system consists of mashing buttons on mobs until your mana runs out. In EQ you actually had to pay attention because the mobs could kill you.
Solo exp should be bad, group exp should be better. That way the content can be actually kept at a challenging level. Why group in a game where you can solo at the same/better exp than you could in a group? Can't I Just play a single player game and get the same experience?
I disagree, if LOTRO, WOW, Vanguard or EQ2 were all just offline solo games they would be on par with Oblivion, at least. I think much better because of how much more depth they have, these games have so much more content than any offline game, and the character building is much more in depth as well. They could also make the graphics much better as well since it would be an offline game.
My /played is high, yup .. know why? .. I enjoy the game. On my terms.
Yup, WoW XP system is sooo different than that of AoC. Or WAR. Hey, remember UO skill system where you could just macro your way to 100 skill? .. you could do the same in SWG .. and what was EQ's XP system again? .. spending ages /lfg then grinding mobs for hours on end spamming one or two buttons.
Group content could be kept at a challenging level by .. making the group content challenging. Why group in a game supports both playstyles? .. don't you want to group? .. if it's your preference to group, and the game supports grouping, and grouping is as viable as soloing then you should (and can) group.
Solo-friendly MMOs are nothing like single player games. That shouldn't even need explaining.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
FFXI. Easily. Although, they would have to do it like they do all the other single player FFs, and give me a full party of characters to work with, but do that and the game content itself isn't much different from the single player installments. It is THAT well made.
I was around back then; what's your point?
It was a rubbish system; the developers recognised that it was a rubbish system and replaced it with a system that wasn't rubbish. Score one for common sense?
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Just a corrective here, I think you meant Realm of the Mad God rather than the "Dark" ... And I'm not trying to be a tool here, but after reading the post I was intrigued to check it out and it looks like it is worth a go. (in case any others ignorant of the game wanted to check it out.)
now back to your regularly scheduled thread...
How dare you present him with logic! Don't you understand? He fights epic fights, in epic games, with epic toons....eats epic food and takes epic dumps! He has more e..pic..icity...ness in his little finger than you have in your whole unepic body! - ChicagoCub
Phantasy Star Online, but that was an offline/online MMO so I guess I'm cheating?
It was a rubbish system, but it sure wasn't replaced with 'a system that wasn't rubbish'. Arenas are just as bad in their own right, with skill being a backseat factor to group comp and gear. While the idea of 'go go farm the most honor' absolutely lead to account sharing and endless playing of toons, where skill had little to do with the equation of success, at least in the r14 system you stood a shot if you had good 'macro' versus 'micro'. Controlling the flow of an AB for example.
The system needed but one small tweak, not an entire absolution. Said tweak needed to be, on top of weekly honor minimums, an honor/time invested ratio. That's all that was needed to make something that was entirely broken to being entirely in-line.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
Look, I don't like WoW all that much but this is not a bash-WoW thread.
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